Sunday, January 04, 2015

LIBRARIANS #106 "Fables of DOOM" question post

A sleek little high-concept episode -- the first one broken by the room and written after the pilot, BTW. Heap your praise upon Kate Rorick and ask your other, obsessive questions below.


Video Beagle said...

? I'm the first poster? It's hours after air time.

I highly enjoyed the episode, Frakes I think always revs up casts to deliver a great show.

The composting on the Wolf and the coin though...that wasn't prime time, I'm afraid, but you roll with the punches.

On the episode...what, were you afraid there wasn't gonna be enough F/f slash fic from your fanbase? :)

Any reason for next week's double shot?

Unknown said...

I loved the different fables that were played out in this episode, and it was so great that our Librarians got affected too. How was it decided who got which fable character? Side note: props for making Cassandra Prince Charming. That was really awesome, and worked perfectly.

Video Beagle said...

Actually a few other questions popped into mind...

We now have the "origin" for the Kane throwing an axe promo image, so the question we're left with, and with Casandra's closing scene (and the Sheriff still eating jell-o™ after the spell is broken) is how much/what residue is left? I'm guessing there's a "once your touched by magic, it's always a part of you" bit to the universe, but does Jake now have Axe skills? What about the robot stuff?

Also, having watched ABC's Galavant tonight, I can't help think there would be an awful lot of magical music stuff out there...Musical episode anyone? :D

marti jackson said...

1. shot of that cursed Libris reads Vol. I on the spine... how many volumes of that damned book are there?
2. wishlist for guest stars/villains: Mark Sheppard. end of list.
3. seizing the Annex might be a foothold for Dulaque, but Jenkins pointed out several magical items are "lost" with the Library at this time. would Dulaque need to liberate all the magic items to "win", or is there a tipping point?
4. shot of chalkboard list of magic items includes Jacob's Step Stool... *snort*
thanks for sharing your misspent villainy.

hansfish said...

I love this episode more ever week, my goodness, holy crap. Also, agreed with the above -- props for making Cassandra be Prince Charming. That actually surprised me, which was awesome.

1) This is mostly a question about whether we're going to get more Jenkins bits like the vending machine thing, which, though it took an alarming turn at the end, was absolutely amazing, oh my goodness. :D?
2) So the little bit of blue Cassandra had at the end -- is she still Merlin, and therefore can't be killed -- !!! -- or is it just a little bit of residual magic she managed to hold onto? Is there any likelihood whatsoever that you'll answer this question instead of giving me a cryptic "that's a good question but SPOILERS!" answer?
3) You mentioned not wanting to set guardrails up in the answer post for 105; is that your attitude toward Cassandra's reaction to getting all those phone numbers, or is there something more concrete afoot here?
4) Having escaped mostly unscathed last week as a result of, as you stated, having accepted himself completely as he is/being the most spiritually advanced, is that related to the fact that Ezekiel would have been the only one to make it out of the tales tonight with a relatively happy ending, or is that just a quirk of the fact that the jack/knave/lives by his wits personality type will probably coexist with the one who's accepted himself the most completely?
5) Also seconding this: seriously, any way you could get Mark Sheppard?

gwangung said...

Some comments:

1) The troll actually escaped from Fremont, didn't he?

2) Eve's turn as a princess was drop dead funny (was expecting her to break out in song);

3) Matched only by Cassandra's turn as Prince Charming (compared with her turn last week as mad spark, it's an astonishingly wide range).

Anonymous said...

I loved the episode! Thank you for mentioning that fairytales are nothing like the Disney versions we know.

1. Did you film this episode in the same town you filmed "The Low Low Price Job" episode of Leverage? Because it looks a lot like it.
2. About Ezekiel, is 'Ezekiel Jones' his real name? I mean, thieves usually go for aliases (like Sophie, Parker or Tara) so why wouldn't it be an alias with The Library specifically recruiting this alias?

Unknown said...
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Kevin said...

Was happy to see the actor from The Bottle Job. Ezekiel really is immune to magic. I really hope Cassandra now has a bit of Merlin with her.

GadgetDon said...

Great show, was a little shocked that the genial librarian really did know he was killing the girl. And nice to see that Ezekiel can care about others than himself - he gives into his impulses, but they aren't all evil ones.

The things said in this episode seem to put fairy tales firmly in the "legend" category - we won't see Snow White from Fabletown showing up (or similar enclave), the Magic Mirror isn't in the Library, etc. True? Or am I leaping to a conclusion.

Way back in the first Librarian movie, Jensen (Bob Newhart) compared the magical artifacts in the Library to the cell phone. Is magic something you just need to understand to use, or do you have to be somehow "gifted" with the ability to use it? If it's just something to be understood, Cassandra is very good at understanding things, so her moments as Merlyn could have unlocked something big.

Anonymous said...

I know you said it a million times before but Christian Kane's comic timing is really really magnificent.

Unknown said...

This episode more than ever has convinced me that Atomic Robo is the best FATE version for the librarians, if only because with mode-based skills it's really really easy to say "By the way, this weird mode replaces one of your existing ones for tonight's session" and toss temporary aspects and stunts at people.


Cassandra's magical spark seems to suggest lingering side effects- will Stone have a permanent ability to conjure axes, given the presence of it in all the trailers?

Anonymous said...

As always many thanks for the opportunity to ask these questions. Unfortunately for you, I took notes this time.

1) The black mask, future plot point or throw away line?
2) It's never the genie's lamp; Is this an homage to House, ala it's never lupus.
3) In the episodes leading up to this one, the writer's have made a point of emphasizing Jones' luckiness. Was that all leading up to this episode or is there something more to it?
4) Was Kane happy to do some more Eliot-style ultimate bad ass fighting, rather than Jake's bar brawling?
5) Should we be concerned about TNT burning off episodes as two-fers?
6) I was watching the extended cuts and in episode 1 or 2 Baird has a line post-Buckingham palace break-in along the lines of "what's next the Vatican, the Taj Mahal, the White House?" Since we visited the Vatican in Apples of Discord, does this mean we will be hitting the Taj Mahal and White House before the end of the season?

Random Comments:
1) Who gets to keep the giant stuffed wolf in their office?
2)Rene Auberjonois, yay! You are killing it with the guest stars.
3)The whole owl scene reminded me of an Old Spice commercial. In my head it played out as "Hello, ladies, look at your man, now back to me, Sadly, he isn’t me. Look down, back up, I'm holding an owl." I knew it was coming and my sides still hurt laughing.
4)Your costuming department killed it with Cassandra's Prince Charming coat.
5) I appreciate Baird's nod to the impracticality of heels in combat.

Again, thanks and have a great day.

LarryFleming said...

First. I want to say that I like when Frakes directs. He seems to direct my favorite episodes. I still like the other shows, but when you're the best, you're the best.
Second. How cool was it to have William Shatner live tweeting during the show.

Ok, I know that you are dealing with budgets and all, but I hope next season you can work in a few special effects. The fight scenes with the wolves were fun to watch, but the obvious camera angles to hide the dangerous shots stood out. I know it's dangerous and you must protect the actors, but that is where some better special effects to bridge that gap.
I like seeing Christian try to pull back his talent. He is so experienced in this type of show that you do have to keep him from upstaging everyone.
I like the use of wildlife in this season. Is that something you will continue to do. (Never work with children or animals)

Mario Di Giacomo said...

Two questions:

1) Given the possible-but-never-actually-outright-stated presence of more high-tech organizations like the Middlemen and the Banzai Institute, are there any plans to have the team go after some more sci-fi artifacts?

2) Who do I have to bribe to get a cameo appearance by either Parker or Miranda Zero? I'll settle for Ezekiel or Cassandra getting a weird cellphone in the mail....

Anonymous said...

Another episode packed with fun, so thank you to the entire team.

I've read and understand that this episode wasn't shown in the order intended. I couldn't help laughing when Cassandra asked Stone, wide-eyed and sincere, about winning his trust back. Doesn't quite work after last week's black-eyed evil Cassandra. I hope you can order the episodes as intended on the DVDs.

Lamia's henchmen grabbed as many artifacts as they could carry in Sword in the Stone, and then the library folded up. How does Jenkins know which artifacts stayed with the library? Does the interface with the Annex include inventory lists?

I was hoping Stone would keep digging inside the wolf and find Grandmother.

Haven't seen the extended version, but the scene with the troll under the bridge felt unfinished. Was this a budget issue and/or time issue?

I enjoyed the gender bending with Cassandra as Prince Charming. Was it just for fun, or is there a clue about her character here? By the way, it brought back memories of the movie Dead Again with Emma Thompson.

Sophia Mitri Schloss was excellent. If the Library ever has a junior librarian spinoff...

Unknown said...

In rewatching the ep on iTunes, I snickered when I realized that Kane grabs his crotch briefly after coming through the outhouse door when they first arrived at the bridge, as though, as much fun as it is for him to go through that doorway, he still wants to make sure all the important parts are there. Kudos to Kane for that.

"Loki's Spear" on the chalkboard. Awesome.

Jen said...
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Jen said...

I loved this episode; laughed way more than once. Two questions:
1. Will the Sheriff have to eat green jell-o for the rest of his life, or is the influence gone with the book being locked up?
2. I know that, for example, the girl who became Red Riding Hood was chosen because she strayed off the path. What about our Librarians? I figured Stone was chosen for the huntsman because he killed the wolf with the axe and maybe Cassandra the prince because she bought everyone a round (and then Ezekiel of course for being Ezekiel) but what about Baird?

Kevin said...

Just read John's response on the "Apple of Discord" post (thank you, John). Glad to see it is foreshadowing and my above phrase of "immune" is awkward. In John's words, "most spiritually advanced" is very interesting to see that in the future episodes.

Nusaiba C said...

Loved this episode as someone who loves all the old versions of fairy tales. As some eps are airing slightly out of order can you tell us what order you had wanted them to be airing? I ask because I review the show and it doesn't seem like there have been any continuity moments messed up but I like to know these things. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I loved the return of the condescending "You're adorable" via Jenkins that appeared so often on Leverage! Was that simple coincidence, as this episode was penned by Kate Rorick?

ChelseaNH said...

1. "Weaponize fairy tales" is such a Baird turn of phrase. Are any writers gravitating towards certain characters/voices?

2. RR tweeted about weave withdrawal. Are there any props or costumes that you're expecting to wander home with any of the actors?

3. I thought Ezekiel might be turning into the Gingerbread Man (you can't catch me!) but it seems he's actually a luck dragon.

4. Can you explain the coin? I feel there's an allusion that I'm not getting.

awa64 said...

Yet another fun episode. Thanks for delivering a shot of joy into my life each week.

1) Ezekiel's been in the "I am safe from this magical influence because it's only driving me to be who I already am anyway" seat two weeks in a row. Assuming it's not some broader influence imbued by wearing Santa's Hat for an extended period of time ( it?), are any other characters slated to sit in that particular seat?

2) To the point of that plot riff being more noticeable as a back-to-back occurance, and other mentions of stuff you thought might have worked better in a different order, any plans or desire to rejigger the episode order for the DVDs?

3) It looks like Cassandra kept either some of Merlin's magic or some of Merlin's knowledge after the book was shut down. Did Stone keep any robot-ness? (I'd ask if Baird kept any ninja-ness, but I think she already had plenty of that...)

4) I couldn't help but think of Mr. McGuire's ultimate fate as being "Myst'd." (Rene Auberjonois did a fantastic job this week, as he always does.) Mechanically speaking... is it possible someone could accidentally trade places with him within the book, freeing him and trapping themselves?

5) Is there a future bottle episode in cataloging the Adjunct Library's new rare book collection and something going horribly wrong?

6) Jenkins continues to be awesome. No question, I'm in total agreement with you on nightshirt-Wolverine, I'm just enjoying the ride on that front. (I loved "It's never the Genie's Lamp.")

7) Are there any magical-artifact cards that you've had to take off the wall due to rights/clearance issues?

8) I love Stone's art geekery, and as much as I love his terse matter-of-factness about the subject, my inner art school student kinda wants to see him get an opportunity or two to discuss art at greater length/depth. How much of that terseness is his own discomfort with demonstrating that part of his personality, how much is mercy toward the not-art-geek part of the audience, and how much is other-factors-I-haven't-considered?

9) With magic coming back to the world and expressing itself in increasingly-prominent ways, and the ridiculousness of "Librarians with the Metropolitan Public Library" as a cover story lampshaded this week, how liable are the LiTs to start developing a reputation for weirdness and trouble in the non-magical world?

10) So far, it seems like the magical artifacts driving weekly conflicts have all been deliberately sought or wielded by individuals with malicious purposes in mind—this week teasing an innocent, unknowing user and veering away as a major twist. Is the "dangerous artifact in the hands of an innocent/ignorant user" trope off-limits as Too Warehouse 13, or just one you haven't gotten around to yet because it's not as thematically on-point?

Robin said...

How did you decide to bring in Kate Rorick? Was Margaret Dunlap the bridge between Pemberley and Electric through your D&D group, or did Kate just happen to be available when you needed writers independent of other relationships?

(Wow, do I follow a lot of screenwriters on social media.)

Unknown said...

Have yet to see an episode I did not enjoy, no small feat there, so kudos.

1. Is Ezekiel reality warping as a super power with his luck. Hence the slot machine winnings from the vending machine.

a) having held birds of prey myself, how many takes did you have to do with the owl? They weigh next to nothing but holding your arm in that position can get tiring.
b) did not notice any jesses on the owls leg. Airbrushed out or that highly trained.
3. How hard was it to get Christian away from the animals, especially the wolf.

Sarah said...

Not gonna lie, when Cassandra lifted her hand at the end, for a split second I thought we were gonna see that she'd kept at least one girl's phone number. ^_^

The mention of the coat in the last week's post got me wondering what happens to all the props, costumes, etc from prior shows. Are they just hanging out in a warehouse somewhere -just in case- you can find another use for them?

Teacups said...

1. How did the book pick who to assign the archetypes to? Ezekiel as the Rogue was a gimme, and Jacob is sort of Huntsman-y. But if it was based off of their personalities, I would've thought Baird would be more likely to be Prince Charming and Cassandra the Princess, rather than the other way around.

Was there other in-universe criteria for archetype selection, did the book pick up on more hidden qualities in them, or did you just have them play against type because it was way more fun?

2. I'm awfully curious to hear more about how Cassandra's synthesia/brain tumor works. For instance, in what way do her senses other than sight not work so well? Is it that they trigger memories and tangents, becoming overwhelming?

Anonymous said...

You've mentioned multiple times that the episodes are airing slightly out of order, and I was just wondering in an ideal world how would you have ordered the episodes?

Tom Galloway said...

"Mr. Maguire?" I see what you did there. Wicked cool.

1) Related, we're now up to four great older actors (OK, I'm pushing it a bit by putting Bruce Campbell in with the completely grey set) showing off their talents. Given the terrific job of approaching Joker-level cackling Mr. Auberjonois did, are you getting them by offering a pay bump of all the scenery they can chew? More to come? (and I'm not counting Newhart and Curtin only because they were pre-existing characters) And with no disrespect to the core four, kudos to the casting dept. for choosing and getting really great guest actors.

2) OK, we're getting beaten over the head by the characters telling us that Ezekiel is a horrible person. The problem is, I just don't see it. Annoying as hell, yes. Lazy, yes. Unclear if he'll be responsible for tasks, uh huh. Amoral, claims to have a total disregard of property rights with the "I'm a thief" catchphrase (and I say "claims" because I've missed where he's swiped anyone's lunch from the fridge or taken home an artifact or book or three or casually picked a pocket when he needs to pay for lunch, etc.). But he was very caring towards the little girl and hasn't kicked any puppies that I've noticed. To go Disney Duckverse on this, he's a lot more the insufferable Gladstone Gander than the evil Magica de Spell.

In other words, while annoying to the point where the others feel they're having to put up with him due to his usefulness, if he were truly horrible I'd think I'd get more the vibe of your place here is hanging by a very, very, thin thread and we're going to act like we really don't like you rather than acting like we tolerate you despite behavior (sorry, I've been in a toxic work environment before, and despite all the "these people don't like each other [yet, maybe] that much", it's coming across as only very slightly toxic at worst and usually not that. Of course, on the other hand, it'd make the characters less likable and change the light hearted tone potentially quite a bit.

Dave said...

I'm curious if there is any "the sausage how she is made" reason for back-to-back episodes in which a key point is that "Ezekiel is almost pure id, and doesn't worry about long term planning or consequences" saves the day.

Dan Da Man said...

1) Do you guys have a list of "weird doors they can come out of"? Because I have to think that the bathroom door would be on such a list.

2) Okay, I got to ask: Was the title and the various Big Bad Wolves simply because it worked out that way, or was that a specific reference to "Fables"?

3) Is there a Necronomicon in that arcane book collection? ;)

DaveMB said...

I want to take up the invitation to heap praise on Kate Rorick. This was IMHO the best-written episode so far, to the extent that you can separate writing from direction.

I was underwhelmed by the pilot until I saw the extended edition -- I see on the other thread you said that it ran long so that everything inessential to the main plot had to be cut. And in a pilot, there is a lot that is essential to the main plot.

It seemed to me that what was correspondingly cut in "Fables" was unnecessary exposition. We are never told what that coin was; it was left for us to figure it out or not. The gradual transition of the LIT's to their fairy tale characters just happened, and only Jake occasionally comments on it. (As the closest thing to a literary person among the four, it makes sense that he would be trying to analyze and categorize the stories on the fly until he becomes completely the man of action.)

The pacing totally worked for me, better than in any of the other episodes so for. I was reminded slightly of the ST:TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles", which its writer David Gerrold characterized as "Kirk is beset on every front and retaliates with the only weapon he has at hand: sarcasm." I am really enjoying watching RR get annoyed as events pile up on her, and this was done really well here.

John Seavey said...

Loving the show! It's appointment television for our whole household. My question: So Jenkins was exiled to the Annex for his tendency to tinker with the magical items. The LiTs are now bringing Jenkins all sorts of new, powerful and dangerous items like the Apple, the Liber, et cetera. Is this going to become a thing at some point? Is it a good idea to give this stuff to Jenkins?

LynRasa said...

1) Was this episode intended to air where it did? It just seems like you have two Superthief is Awesome Rogue episodes right in a row and the trust issues feel like they'd follow from Horns of the Bull. Also Jake's reference about a bathroom in Midnight Run. Was there some shuffling? Where was this supposed to go?

2) What's your favorite fairy tale? If you happen to have other writers/crew/directors/Dean around where you can ask or if it came up in the writer's room, what're their favorites as well?

3) Whose kid/child-writer wrote that spectacularly kid accurate ending? That is exactly the kind of narrative my 2nd graders would write.

4) Does the Magic Back Door pick portals at random or does Jenkins amuse himself by finding the most ridiculous doors to send them through?

5) Was the sheriff one of McRory's cop friends? He looked familiar.

A) 3 Billy Goats Gruff, Robin Hood (Maybe I'm imagining that one), Emperor's New Clothes, Bremen Town Musicians, Pied Piper, Hansel and Gretel (Nice rhyme, evocative of Old Mother Hubbard), Red Riding Hood (with Stone as the Huntsman/
Woodcutter), Beowulf, Prince Charming (which covers half a dozen tales), All the princesses (Rapunzel and Cinderella for sure, Jack (all of them), Three Little Pigs (& Sheriff Bigby Wolf. Awesome Fables nod.), Snow White, Evil Stepmother, Leprechaun Coins, Bo Peep, Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, And that's just the ones I caught.

Kate Rorick, Queen of the Allusion.

B) Reanimation Elixir, Magic Mushrooms, Lilies, Tesla's Death Ray, The Black Mask, The Sampa, Book of Thoth, Loki's Spear, Unicorn, The Stone of Gibraltar, Pipes of Pan, Wand of Fairies, Icelandic Swans, The Holy Grail, John Henry's Hammer, Mother Goose Treaty, Spear of Destiny, Blackbeard's Chest, The Tree of Confusion, Sitting Bull's Feather, Gaelic Vampires, the Genie's Lamp AKA Lupus, Shakespeare's Quill, Leprechauns, The Wolf's Whistle, Interstellar Wireless, The Cap of Invisibility, Goose with Golden Eggs, Trident of Poseidon, The Golden Fish Scale, The Immortals, Libris Fabula, Lantern of Diogenes, The Singing Sword of Conaire Mor, Homer's Sandal, The Telltale Heart, Ozymandia's Dream
Journal, Sirens, Red Herring of ?, Fenrir's Chain, Aztec Smoking Mirror, W.D.'s Frozen Head, The Stein of Many, Yata no Kagami, Aesop's Lyre (I saw that card on the board!)- I got 44 1/2 out of 57.

6B) Was there a bet? or a competition? Now let's play Concentration, no Repeats or Hesitation, Category is: Magic

7B) So just watch for the Latin, right? Is it Latin=important or Latin=evil?

8) So non-heteronormativity to come, is that why Cassandra's Prince Charming? Or is it liked but not trusted? Or just tweaking Kane?

C) Reality is just shared narrative we've agreed to believe. Right out of my Semantics class.

D) Is creepy Jenkins and the vending machine just Jenkins, no fairy tale involved? 'Cause he's creepy.

E) Absolutely loved the tesselating costumes. My compliments to Critter!

F) I love meta and process and the writing pedantry. So please don't skimp on that. And I do appreciate the Wolverine's Poncey Nightshirt Principle. (Incidentally, The Nightshirt of Poncey couldn't have gone on the board?) That's what fanfic is for.

But Jenkins is really, really interesting. That's your fault. And John Larroquette's. Pat yourself on the back, buy him a drink, and can you blame us? Okay. I'll stop asking now. Speculating like whoa. But I'll stop asking.

G) Rogers: We already have the DVD commentary dates booked.

9) Are we sure the theme of this season isn't self-acceptance?

H) @lisa king My brain just conjured an image of John Kim in a Scarlet Witch costume. I blame you for this.

swevene said...

Was 'Mr. McGuire' a reference to Seanan McGuire? I know she's a big fan of Leverage (and the Librarians now) and she did write that Amazon serial about fairy tales in the modern world...

plus she'd probably be amused by being the bad guy.

Art_ Connery said...

1. Of course it had to be Frakes directing.
2. Leverage call backs, the axe flip, an angry Eliot, err, stone is still comedy gold, Stone punching stuff in frustration.
3. Terminator call backs, keys in the visor, come with me ..., robot Stone vision.
4.Rene Auberjonois- cast or part written for him? (Also could see Saul Rubinek doing a mean impression of Peter Falk.)
5. Jenkins phone count :1
6. Eve eye batting in the local library.
7. the need for a MIB neuralyzer ...
on an unrelated note, did the story about Rebecca meeting Tyler Mane the first time ever get told?

I need to start taking better notes.

Art_Connery said...

Kind of feel sorry for Lamia, she keeps getting the worst side of the beat down every time. her superpower is she's slippery and always gets away?

24jg13 said...

The show keeps getting better.

Mark Shepherd please, maybe as Jake's older dysfunctional brother

And Saul Rubinek as another keeper of the annex (knight of the round table)

Calla said...

I really liked how the costumes slowly transformed.

Kane is still twirling things!

That troll-under-the-bridge is a real sculpture in Oregon - yes?

One of the items on the chalkboard was "lilies" - shouldn't that have been "poppies"?

Loved the final scene in town "They're Librarians... now that I think about it that doesn't make any sense." haha

Who is the Paradise Lost annotated by? Is it... Satan?

This is now 2 episodes in a row where Jones is unaffected by the magic and saves the day. Is this an intentional pattern or just a coincidence in how the shows are being aired?

Finally, I'm definitely seeing a pattern with references to the King Arthur legend. Aside from the 2-part pilot episode, Dulaque said "Morgana would be so proud" in the Xmas ep. The fairie called him "Son of Ban." "Dulaque" is 'of the lake'. And, in this ep, Cassie got to be Merlin and "Merlin can't be killed" - plus she retained a spark of Merlin's magic.

Is this all leading to a season finally where Flynn is reunited with his bff Cal?

amarillion said...

Brilliant ep again, High 5 for Kate Rorick.

Not so many questions, mostly just happy squeeing...and apparently I can't write up short responses/questions. Please feel free to tell me to cut these down and I'll try to keep it to just q's.

Adding my YAY! for Cassie being Prince Charming & Also Yay Stone as the Huntsman and not Charming...
1. Can we please keep that leather belt and the medium sized leather bracer on him? It's kinda hot. Also the ep was rife with Kane and his patented double takes. Love, love, love it! Actually just loving watching Kane being more than just the stoic one. He's still stoic, but far less unflappable than Eliot was.

@antisocialbutterflie YES! " I'm holding an owl! " & Cassie's Charming outfit. That jacket and the gold patterned scarf were gorgeous.
@Jen I kinda actually picked that the Archetypes they became speaks more to their actual character, than anything they did in episode. Much like the eye colour from last ep.
Stone, fierce, loyal, relatively good natured, and scrappy fighter. Used to working outdoors with his hands alot.
Baird: I dunno, maybe Baird had a little lost princess inside of her, under all that military training?
Cassie: ...Yeah, lets just say I think Cassie may be repressing more than just a whole lot of anger.
Ezekiel: ...Jack, Jack Frost, Jack be Nimble, Jack the Giant Killer,Jack Sprat. Lots of folklore around the trickster archetype. He's clever, cunning, lazy, self centred, and he always comes out on top, but is rarely out and out evil. Just amoral and chaotic goodto neutral. He tends to take the big bads down a notch, and stand up for the little guys. If only because punching up is so much more fun.

2. Also, was that a freeze spell Ezekiel put on the coin? Channeling a little Jack Frost?

@awa64 re 8. Holy Crap YES. I loved when Stone's eyes just lit up on seeing that 15th C folio in the Library, and the slight whimper when Rene's character took the books away with him. Then the way they shone again when he saw Jenkins had "aquired" them. I suspect Stone spent the next week driving Jenkins to distraction "helping" him catalogue those books.
Stone: "I don't have any subtext!" & "Hmm reality. It's the shared narrative we agree to believe"
not to mention his robotic: "Yeah, I can work with this." <3 !!!!

JENKIIIIINS!!! After the first ep I thought I would end up hating Jenkins, but after last weeks ep, John bloody Laroquette had totally pulled me into a 180.

3. I would love to see little lingering effects clinging to them all. Definitely Stone being able to pull on his axe wielding, Huntsmany, badass Terminator echo, and being utterly delighted by being able to do so. Similarly with Cassie: That little delighted look on her face as she conjured up that wisp of magic. Prince Charming the Merlin. Has a nice ring to it...

Annnnnd now I want to do character illustrations based on their assumed archetypes for this ep, and write up alignment notes, and Loot stats.
Coin: +5 to Luck
Axe: +5 Magical Beast Slaying
...someone save me.

Anonymous said...

1. A. On stealing a pick--up: Stone is from Oklahoma. No way he is surprised to find the truck unlocked with the keys on the visor. I get that it was establishing the Lucky Thief, but in trusting small towns it is just SO normal. Hmmm... any writers from the mid-west on the team?

1. B. ... even less important, It bugged me that Stone didn't put up the tailgate. Bouncing a dead wolf out on the road is not stealthy. ;) I would have thought Kane would do it without even thinking.

2. Loved seeing the actress who owned the painting in Two Live Crew!

3. Franks! Franks! Franks!

4. How none stop did Kane talk about wolves? Did he resist killing one for the episode?

Sincere thanks for Kung Fu Monkey adding to all the fun!!

Lora said...

So genderbending is canon. Iiiinteresting.

I still don't know how I'm supposed to believe that Stone doesn't trust Cassie. It's all been tell. What he shows is that he pays close attention to her, cares about her, and has a connection with her that helps with her math. Until his actions say it too, he doth protest too much.

How did the coin freeze the old man? Was it just supposed to be that the Thief is so lucky that he happened to pick up an enchanted coin?

Unknown said...

Loved the episode. I laughed out loud when Eve came out with the "Why am I in heels!?" line, probably because I've been watching a lot of Covert Affairs, in which someone really needs to point out how impractical Annie Walker's shoes usually are.

A thought struck me after the episode: Eve seems to be Flynn's designated Guardian, even though she has agreed to babysit the Librarians-in-Training. Also, the Library seems to have accepted the LiTs. Is it possible that, somewhere out there, are 3 people with the yet-unrealised potential to be Cassie, Jake and Ezekiel's Guardians?

Speaking of which, I'm probably late to the party to spot this, but Lamia's relationship with Du Laque works as a dark analogy for the Librarian-Guardian dynamic. If not for her zealotry, could Lamia have been called to the Library as a Guardian?

DaveMB said...

Here's an actual question, perhaps more relevant to a hypothetical Librarians RPG than to the show:

What's the default assumption about how much a given Librarian will know about something not in their field?

Flynn has 22 Ph.D.'s IIRC, so on any academic question he is likely to have Ph.D.-level knowledge.

Stone was offered scholarships at Cambridge and the Sorbonne. I would think that he got a B.A. in Art History at the University of Oklahoma, with a 4.0 GPA, lots of graduate coursework, and publications. He may have entered college early, and/or have earned an M.A. with his B.A., before he decided (for reasons not yet revealed) to abandon academics (at least in public). Plus he's been reading literally anything he can get his hands on, on paper or online, in many different modern and ancient languages, since then. So I would think that in any academic subject, he would have the knowledge base of an undergraduate major in that field.

Cassandra presumably washed out of conventional schooling due to its failure to cope with her and vice versa. (Her job in the hospital was an obvious Good Will Hunting reference, right?) She has voraciously read anything to do with any kind of science, retains everything she has ever read in her own unusual way, and can instantly make new discoveries in mathematics or physics.

Ezekiel also presumably left conventional schooling very early for the criminal life, but has an almost Hardison-level knowledge of anything technical and a Parker-level knowledge of the art/antiquities business, from the purely operational point of view. He could easily turn up with a bizarre scrap of knowledge, like Sky Masterson's detailed recall of the Bible from reading the Gideons in a lifetime of hotel rooms...

Eve was either Army ROTC or West Point, knows and retains anything the Army wanted to teach her about tactics, strategy, logistics, military history, military engineering, etc., plus detailed knowledge of world affairs focusing on security, a working knowledge of major NATO languages plus probably those of potential adversaries.

Jenkins knows things none of us can begin to imagine.

Any of this off base?

Kalrane said...

Loving the show (and Leverage also), and super-pleased to have discovered such a great behind-the-scenes resource! Reading along really adds new depth to the shows.

So my question, at least the one likely to be answered and not already asked, is: Why does the library call in so many potential Librarians but only choose a single Guardian?

seraS said...

Another fun episode! The Librarians is definitely my favourite new show!

And some questions:

1. The town in the episode is called Bremen. Is that a reference to the German town Bremen? If so, is it due to the connection to the Grimm fairy tale Die Bremer Stadtmusikanten (town musicians)?

2. Are there fairy tales you really wanted to use in this episode but couldn't for some reason (budget, copyright, complexity, content...)?

3. Was the troll part of the conjured up fairy tale beings or not? From the way Jenkins spoke it sounded like trolls were just a part of the magic side of things and you could run into one if you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But then it wasn't mentioned again, so did it just disappear when the story ended?

Thanks for taking the time to answer these!

Miri said...

1) Really loved Casandra as Prince Charming! I honestly don't know whether I'm more in love with the idea of her being interested in the ladies (be she gay, bi, pan, fluid, or whatever) or her being a straight girl who isn't wigged out by being hit on by girls. Either way, thank you for having none of the characters be gross or creepy or homophobic about it!
2) Cassandra has magic!! I know this is all magic and magical artifacts, but this is the first time a LiT has wielded straight up magic. (Right?) Did she retain her Merlin-nes or did it awaken what was already inside her?

DaveMB said...

seraS -- The troll was acting out the story of the Three Billy Goats Gruff (see Wikipedia), where a troll attacks the third and largest of three goats that cross its bridge. It may or may not have been associated with the bridge before, but some combination of the "release of magic into the world" and the fairy tale book must have activated it.

By the way, was there an intended reference to the Fremont Troll in Seattle? I don't think they actually used the existing statue, though it would have been in long driving distance.

I think I figured out another reason I liked this episode so much -- the realization of the idea of storytellers creating people and worlds. (Stone even mentioned that reality was a shared construct...) I hadn't known until today that Kate Rorick was one of the writers of the totally awesome Lizzie Bennett Diaries. That's another example of creative people taking a well-known story and rewriting it to create something new...

heidi2524 said...

Was Mr. McGuire's name a reference to author Gregory Maguire of Wicked?

Also kudos for the subtle clothing changes as the episode progressed, lovely touch.

Thank you to all involved so much for this show.
- Heidi

Amber said...

I loved this episode so much! My question isn't specific to the episode. I bought the season pass on iTunes so I could get the extended cuts and writers vlogs (enjoying those too) but I haven't gotten any of the extended cuts since I bought it, are there not anymore extended cuts since the first few episodes? Will there be more extended cuts for later episodes?

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you can answer why, but I know I'm not the only one experiencing this. Why does an hour of The Librarians go much faster than an hour of Leverage or most other shows? It's like the Tardis-is-bigger-on-the-inside effect. You said in the last answer post that The Librarians required fewer pages than Leverage to make an episode, but it seems like everyone is talking just as fast. Any theories, at least? Thank you!

Anonymous said...

I'm loving the show so far.

I was wondering how many fairy tales you incorporated into the script. I counted 11 (3 Billy Goats Gruff, Bremen Town Musicians, Emperor's New Clothes, Pied Piper, Hansel and Gretel, Red Riding Hood, Cinderella, Little Bo Peep, Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty and 3 Little Pigs) but I may have missed some.

Did each of the writers get to pick a fairy tale to include?

DorkusMaximus said...

Trying to make sense of the Latin:

Fabula looks to be either nominative or ablative singular.
Libris appears to be dative/ablative plural.

Can you offer any clarity?

WuseMajor said...

First, as regards this one, I liked it, but I'm not sure having two "The Thief Saves the day" episodes in a row was the best choice. That said, it was a pretty fun episode. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's going to ask, but is Cassie gay?

Cassie retaining the ability to use magic is pretty interesting.

(I have a weakness for girls like that. Basically any character that Amy Acker could play well is someone I'll enjoy watching. Not that Lindy Booth isn't doing a great job of course.)

Also, I missed that you were doing this again until now, so I wanted to ask a question about the two parter pilot, if that's ok. Part of the reason Cassie betrays the team is because the Serpent Brother hood tells her that they can cure her with magic. Practically right at the same time, Flynn pulls out a bottle of healing water and uses it to lessen the wound he got from Excalibur. Is there a reason he didn't just toss the vial of healing juice to her when they went on the Library tour earlier or did he just absentmindedly forget or was he putting it off or what?

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svollga said...

On the facade of the Annex, there are the symbols of a book, a tree and three swords. Do they have a meaning? The book is supposedly obvious, but all the others, especially with the current theme of Arthurian mythos...

Thea said...

Thank you for answering my question regarding the last episode. Heh, I have a clue (or I think I do) when you said "... you may be upset at some point during the year." re: the Come back alive, Librarian thing. I am a mix of dread yet buzzing with excitement to see that.

1. I forgot to ask this last episode, Eve's Catholic, isn't she? I mean, she knows which Bible verse is in which New Testament book and clearly, she's mortified they ended up on the Vatican and possibly met the Pope hehe (I would just like to point out that in her panic, it could just be a random bishop... doesn't His Holiness wear all white?)

2. Still on Eve Baird, would we get to see her family and why she is not too keen to spend time with them? I'm assuming it's that way because of the way she said "... and family" when she was talking to Flynn in the Black Forest, I sensed guilt too? Maybe, it has something to do with what Santa Nick said about her moving from one military base to another even as a child but that's me.

3. How does the Libris Fabula pick what people of Bremen turn into? For example, does Baird have an inner expert eye-batting, swiftly growing tresses, sparkly glass shoes owning princess in her? Or does the persona have a semblance to her childhood dreams, perhaps? No complaints at all, as per Rebecca's tweet, #weavewithdrawal.

4. I just want to clarify two ep-related things: one, when I checked the show's imdb page before, it listed Flynn, Charlene and Judson in Fables of Doom but no scene whatsoever - did it end up being cut or it was just plain misinformation? Second, are we getting the last two episodes of the season back to back on the 18th, too? Eep, I haven't been this looking forward to a show's episode airing in a while.

ChelseaNH said...

I'm wallowing in my Agent Carter bliss today, which prompts the question: Are there any projects you'd love to be a part of (given infinite free time)?

Corb said...

You described Ezekiel's role in this episode as the Jack or Rogue who survives by luck so leads me to ask if the coin he found was a 'luck penny'?

It also has me wondering if, based on a) more magic free, b) the Libary chosing him for more than his thieving skills and c) that he is a Thief, Ezekiel is now linked with the Trickster - whether Hermes (God of Thieves), Raven, Coyote, Anansi, or Maui (the Maori demigod who fished the Aotearoa from the sea)? (Apparently, the Australian aboriginal version is a Crow.)

I'm accepting Loki is kinda spoken for, but there is fun to be had from the stories about the other incarnations. I always enjoyed those stories, especially the way people who underestimate them, or cross them, end up in trouble.

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John Seavey said...

Oh--not a question per se, but based on what you said in your Twitter feed a week or two ago, could you please pass along to Christian Kane that if he were to go on tour with a one man show of "Christian Kane Gets Slightly Buzzed and Recites the Entire Script of 'Big Trouble in Little China'"' my wife and I would follow him around like he was the Grateful fucking Dead? Thanks!

John Seavey said...

Oh--not a question per se, but based on what you said in your Twitter feed a week or two ago, could you please pass along to Christian Kane that if he were to go on tour with a one man show of "Christian Kane Gets Slightly Buzzed and Recites the Entire Script of 'Big Trouble in Little China'"' my wife and I would follow him around like he was the Grateful fucking Dead? Thanks!

Stefan Jones said...

I watching the episode now. I tend to save them for when I need a lift.

What was the lovely riverine park where the "Bremen" bridge scene was taped?

And was there really a hobby shop in that town or was that sign just set dressing? :-)

Dora said...

So, I was wondering....what is up with the Icelandic Swans that were on Jenkins' board of things?

Rhea Lee said...

Not a question, but: after watching the Writer Vlog on iTunes I googled Kate Rorick, and have been binge-watching the Lizzie Bennett Diaries ever since, and will be picking up the companion (audio)book. Please tell her she now has one more fan :).

seraS said...

Thanks, DaveMB, I must have missed that bit! So let me amend my third question a bit:

3. From the way Jenkins spoke it sounded like trolls were just a part of the magic side of things and you could run into one if you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is that essentially correct?

Stacey said...

How the heck did you get permission to diss green Jell-O on TV? If book covers are trouble, I would think brands like Jell-O and even Snickers would be impossible!

OldeSaultie said...

in order:

Spear of Destiny, Blackbeard's Chest, The Tree of Confucius, Sitting Bulls Feather, Gaelic Vampires, The Genie's Lamp, Shakespeare's Quill, Leprechauns, The Wolf's Whistle, Interstellar Wireless, The Cap of Invisiblity

Goose with Golden Eggs, Trident of Poseidon, The Golden Fish Scale, The Immortals, Libris Fabula, Lantern of Diogenes, The Singing Sword of Conaire Mor, Homer's Sandal, The Telltale Heart, Ozymandia's Dream Journal, Sirens, Red Herrings of Yangtze

Pipes of Pan, Wand of Fairies, Icelandic Swans, The Holy Grail, John Henry's Hammer, Mother Goose Treaty, Aztec Smoking Mirror, Fenrir's Chain, W.D.'s Frozen Head, The Stein of Many Drinkers, Necklace of Harmonia

Reanimation Elixir, Magic Mushrooms, Lilies, Tesla's Death Ray, The Black Mask, The Sampo, Cupid's Bow, Aphrodite's Magic Girdle, The Veil of Scherazade, Whirling Dervishes, The Peaches of Immortality?, Murphys's Lawbook?

Book of Thoth, Loki's Spear, Unicorn, The Stone of Giramphiel, Yata No Kagami, Inuit Raven Claw, Aesop's Lyre, The Wand of Wishes, Jacob's Step Stool, Tasmanian Devils, Fountain of Youth

Anonymous said...

This may be far too late for next post commentary purposes, but I need to amend my question #1.

I was watching the extended cut of Horns of Dilemma tonight and Jenkins mentioned the Black Mask in that episode too. Something about how everyone thinks that it's dead and it keeps showing up when you need it. That sounds very finale MacGuffin-esque to me. Therefore, I am amending question #1 to are we going to see the Black Mask this season?

Unknown said...

Is Cassie's clothing what youngsters in America are wearing right now or has her tumor messed with her sense of style?

Unknown said...

Thank you so much for creating The Librarians!

It has become one of the things the 6 year-old and the 14 year-old enjoy as well as the parents and grandparents *even if it sounds odd*

I miss Christian's hair (his hair was his fighting and since he's not ighting in this one, he had to cut the hair...) all right, where was I?

Oh yes, the casting for Ezekiel is super cool. Love his accent and the character is great.

I'm certainly looking forward to more from The Librarians. So, Mark Sheppard in an episode.. or two?

Thank you once again and cheers to the team!

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