Sunday, January 04, 2015

LIBRARIANS #105 "Apple of Discord" Answer post

We always intended Flynn to return  --

FANS: Yes, interesting. Explain the Jenkins conversation.

-- in the middle of the broadcast order. Noah's availabilities were at the beginning and end of the shoot schedule. Rather than blow him out in a two-part finale, which tend to be monstrous clanking beasts, why not build a clean little arc for him?  We wanted to keep Flynn present in the show, make sure we checked in with him, and so a personal visit in mid-run seemed to be the best way not to go too long without the Head Librarian.  

I'm a big believer in addressing the emotional beats of show production with the characters as a proxy.  For example, when Gina Bellman unexpectedly became pregnant 2nd season of Leverage, we had to get a Grifter replacement.  As awesome as Jeri Ryan is (and she is awesome, and a shit-hot pool player to boot)  we know the audience was going to take a while to get used to her. People hate change, although it is eternal, transforming, and not to be feared. 

Ahem. 

Anyway, we dealt with this by having the CHARACTERS hate the change, and then slowly arced them to acceptance.  The relationship between character emotional space and audience emotional space in genre shows is complicated enough that I have no coherent theory about it, but I have notions which tend not to betray me too often, so I'll take that.

FANS: Suuuuper interesting, thanks, and not at all pedantic. So the Jenkins scene ...

The attitude we felt needed to be addressed, which was "yeah, we just figured out how the show worked without the original movie protagonists" could be addressed by shifting it over to "yeah, Flynn, thanks for coming back, we got this".  It may have been a little easier to sell if we'd gotten the original broadcast order we wanted, which placed at least one more episode before Flynn's return. The episode tonight, "the Fairy Tales of Doom" was the first regular season ep shot after the giant four-week shoot of the two-part opener, and was intended to be aired in the first half of the season.  I would've even liked another ep between Santa and Flynn's return, but careful season building was pretty much impossible when you combine the speed with which the season came together and the fact we only learned the air dates of the show -- and hence the Santa ep placement -- later in the production cycle.  

Bringing Flynn back meant we needed to have an episode with much higher stakes, so an idea about dragons originally in the season finale was dragooned (heh) into the midpoint tentpole ep.  First story break with the cards on the wall, Flynn was in his role as the Arbiter.  We then thought "Hey, we are bringing back a franchise character. Do we really want to have him sitting in a conference room for the entire ep?" But if not Flynn, then who?

TV writing 101: when asking "Who should perform this high-stakes task in my episode?", you rarely can go wrong by answering "The worst possible person."  This meant Ezekiel, which meant Ezekiel and Jenkins in the Annex, which was aces.  In the first season of a show you try to team people up in as many ways as possible to both explore the character dynamics and, frankly, see who works well together.  We hadn't had a proper Jenkins scene with anyone but Baird yet.  By this point in the production cycle we were completely on board the "much more John Larroquette, please" train ourselves. 

FANS: FINALLY!! JENKINS!!

Not quite yet, no.  Again, complications are your friend: an object that needs to be recovered is interesting. An object that needs to be recovered and is dangerous to transport is entirely more fun.  We went though a couple of iterations before landing on the object (one of the cards from the wall, I believe) that gave us the most interesting problem: the Apple of Discord.  It not only allowed us top open up some of the hidden corners of the characters, it allowed us to show Flynn himself was not above temptation, and himself needs to be rescued by the Librarians.

The Conclave came about because we were running into problems keeping what was essentially a three-hander -- Mr. Drake, Jenkins, and Ezekiel -- interesting. Jenkins is hyper-capable, Ezekiel is hyper-arrogant, and Mr. Drake does not (apparently) have his own agenda.  Escalating the situation from Ezekiel handling a one-on-one negotiation to managing magical parliamentary procedure kept the show on pace.  

It also allowed us to crack open the Library-verse a bit and differentiate our show even more from, say Warehouse 13 and Grimm.  The Library-verse is one where multiple magical realms overlap with a secret pulp history of the world.  There is not one conspiracy, or secret organization, or secret struggle. All of them are happening. All of them are true, and probably not exactly the version you've read about. We retain the right to remix pulp culture

The references to Wold Newton, Lupin, the World Crime League, O2STK, etc are a manifesto of sorts.  Intellectual property rights and copyright have morphed from what they were originally intended -- mechanisms to inspire creativity and sharing -- to fenced-in IP farming constructs extending well past the lifetime of the creator. That's even assuming the IP does not in fact now belong to a corporation, which is functionally an immortal life form.  This has gotten so out of control that I had to argue with a Writer's Guild arbitration exec on whether the Wolfman -- the concept of a wolfman -- was actually public domain, as Universal had made movies based on the idea. I am still not completely sure I convinced her. (FWIW, I got Javi Grillo-Marxuach's permission to use O2STK,  which he generously gave)  Any references you hear in the show which you think cross over to another property a.) are probably based on old legends or stories you were unaware of or b.) are certainly not those properties, but if you want to believe so, who am I to stop you?

Basically, when I was a kid, I thought nothing could be cooler than the idea that all the superheroes, pulp heroes and historical badasses and legends and conspiracies and stories were not only true, but crossed over constantly.  I do not want my imagination limited by persnickety encyclopedic precision of who said what said when did where couldn't have done that never said that. That is the opposite of imagination.  The idea I live in a secretly magical, conspiracy-laden super-powered world fills me with childlike glee. They let me write TV. Why not write about that?

My only regret is that TNT, probably wisely, reined in a few of the more outrageous groups. You almost got the Council of Dolphins on speakerphone, and I do miss the demands of the Parliament of Babies. (Bonus: writer Kate Rorick explaining that the Baby Genius series of movies is basically Flowers for Algernon was one of the high points of the year for me.)

FANS: We swear to Christ we will flip the FUCKING TABLE --

Right, Jenkins.  John Larroquette just murdered the first, truly emotional scene we gave Jenkins, which is the set-up. The punch of hinting at the shared past with DuLaque doesn't work without that speech.  So you want to know more about Jenkins?

FANS: Yes.

To the point where you're actively annoyed that we're not giving it to you fast enough?

FANS: YES!

Did you watch Leverage?  Did you ever read what I wrote about Eliot and Parker and Sophie's backstories on this blog? 

FANS: Errrr, no.

You should go hunt that up. The entry involves a reference to Wolverine in a poncy nightshirt.  And be prepared to hate me. Basically, if you want more, it means we're doing it right. And there is some shit we will never, ever tell you.

That said, there were discussions that we we making various hints about some of the characters' backstories too subtle for the audience to catch. Adorable writers. The beloved audience is an infinite ocean of obsessives.

Big kudos to Paul Guyot and Geoff Thorne for wrestling all this into something shoot-able and coherent.  You can thank Geoff for the Eric B. and Rakim reference.  

Let's go to questions. And hey, that shot of the Dragon flying you saw in the promos -- that is indeed from this season ...

@Madhatter360: Watching with my dad, he wanted to know, was the World Crime League a Buckaroo Bonzai reference or is it the same organization and they take place in the same universe?

I couldn't possibly say.

@Sean Fagan: Other than out of concern for the viewers, why didn't Flynn respond to the dragon in Latin?

Out of concern for the viewers.

@ChelseaNH: How do you mistake Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa for a pizza delivery guy? Especially when he's not even holding a pizza box! What is it with rogues using WIS as a dump stat and then never having a spot check?

To be fair, Ezekiel did not see Mr, Drake (and Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa was indeed great!) before he opened the door. No peephole at the Library.

@Dan Da Man: 1) Will we one day see some episodes of more of a sci-fi nature? After all, in some of the TV movies we saw stuff like UFOs and Nessie hanging out in the background of the Library.
2) Wait, so Du Lac just knows where the Librarians hang out? Why doesn't he just send all of men at it at once and take it like he tried to do with the Library itself? (Well, besides the fact that the show would be really short otherwise)
3) How fun was it coming up with all the ways sexy-evil Lindy Booth could weaponize math? 
4) Was the opening scene in Japan specifically meant to homage Godzilla and other Kaiju films?


1.) Yes, although one's a bit of a science/magic hybrid. The other's straight sci fi.  Not really our bailiwick, but we will dabble.
2.) There are reasons which will probably be clearer in the finale. This is, however his attempt to be subtle. And grabbing the somewhat useless (to him) Annex is less useful than engaging in a power-play in the magical world. Consider this week's plot kind of a bank-shot.
3.) Tons of fun. Although I will admit, most of that came out of my old notebooks. I am just one bad choice away from being a supervillain.
4.) A bit.  We just wanted to show the international nature of the threat and so we got a combo.

@Cynthia Pachura: My question is this... When are going to hear Jacob Stone's backstory?

Despite my general loathing to reveal backstory, his is relevant in an upcoming episode. You'll hear a short version of his reasons for staying home, from him. Be sure to check out the extended versions of the pilot for some crucial info.

@Marquis: Enjoyed the reference to the Judas Chalice. Sad that after what happened Flynn cut himself off from people. Do you have any plans /desires to explore those years or are they all essentially timelocked whatever happened happend and it doesn't matter?

We may indeed explore those years.  A lot happened, including some cool stuff with Judson and Charlene. We're leaving them blank for now, though to give us the story space for new episodes. But something in tie-in novels or comics is not out of the question. 

@Traylantha:1. Really love the concept of Ezekiel already being the worst version of himself. I'm thinking this comes from the fact that of all of them, he is the only one that has accepted himself completely as he is? Which means he's slotted into the Chaotic Neutral alignment point. 
2. Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa! Consider this my formal request for him to return in Season 2. Rogue dragon plotlines can be fun, yeah? I'm not being presumptive or optimistic. I think there just might be S2 after all these lovely ratings.
3. I like that Stone can work with everyone despite the fact that he doesn't really trust them. When does this bite him in the butt? 
4. As the series goes, Baird's hair gets more relaxed as she gets comfortable, I think? It's a nice progression point to focus on. 


1.) I believe I stated in a previous post that the Library chose Ezekiel Jones not just for his thieving skills. These character traits are definitely on the list.
2.) If we have the opportunity, it would be lovely to have him back.
3.) I think Stone's trust issues will actually protect him in ways the others aren't shielded. It's not even an "issue" per se, more an attitude.  His butt is not bitten -- by that, anyway.
4.) Hey, nice eye.

@Evan K: 1) I get the feeling that Eve Baird is smarter than she looks, in an Eliot Spencer kind of way - not that she looks unintelligent, just that she seems "normal" compared to all the super-geniuses. I hope to see more of her smarts as her character develops - surely her military training includes some serious expertise on tactics and strategy at the very least.
2) When is the Librarians RPG coming out? I suggest one based on the same rule set as the Leverage RPG. Also, let me know when you want to GM; I'll bring the Irish whiskey.
3) Are Jenkins and Dulaque fallen angels?
4) How much Irish whiskey does it take to fuel the creation of each episode of the Librarians?
5) I like that Ezekiel is the worst version of himself - and I hope he stays that way (mostly).
6) Something else about Irish whiskey.


1.) At the end of the season, go back and watch Baird. She lays out the strategies, directs the team's investigative plans, and saves the day pretty often.  She's a detective, in the truest sense of the word. It's not that she can't learn all the fancy bullshit the others know, She just doesn't care or need to.
2.) I'm pretty sure you could use either Cortex or Fate to handle The Librarians pretty easily even now. I'm sure if you look around on the web, you can already find some builds.
3.) That's interesting.  If you poke around, some other fans hve stumbled across a couple of hints.
4.) I go through about two bottles a season, give or take two bottles.
5.) Ezekiel may grow more personally fond of the team, and his ego will prevent him from sucking at his job, but he does not, pretty much ever, become a decent human being.
6.) I'm trying Japanese whisky lately. Interesting.

@Calla: 1.) With the success of Leverage and now The Librarians, why do you think there aren't more pulp shows like these on television? Is it that you and your people are the only ones clever enough to write a full series?
2.) And, finally, I wanted to comment on Stone & Cassie's relationship. I like that it is NOT the same as Eliot & Parker - because it could have been. I like that Stone gets Cassie and helps her to focus and pays attention enough to know what her "off switch" is. BUT, at the end of the pilot, Stone tells Cassie that he likes her but doesn't trust her. So, I'm seeing each week evidence that he likes her, but I've not noticed any evidence that he still doesn't trust her. Is it simply that he knows more about her than she knows about him?
3.) Since Baird hadn't officially transferred from NATO to the Library, it made sense that, last week, she said "I don't belong here!" and that Flynn's desk rejected her rearrangement of its contents. But after signing the transfer papers, shouldn't the desk accept her now and let her set it up the way she wants? And what, if anything, does this have to do with your comment last week that "the desk is a clue"?

1.) Thanks, but no, TV is ass-deep in humans far more clever than I. We just got a great network with good promotions and a lot of trust.  It's a damn tough tone to pull off, and frankly is never going to win us an Emmy. So plenty of reasons not to make these types of shows. I'd also argue that right now pretty much the entire CW line-up is pulp.
2.) Nope, he's just a man of his word, and dealing with his own stuff. They talk a little bit about it tonight, and even though the ep is out of the original air order, I think the conversation still applies.
3.) Yeah, it should have. Even before that. So I guess the desk is still a clue.

@vickysg1: 1. If Flynn didn't know about the door working how could he have come through it at the beginning?
2. What did the team do with Lamia? Why didn't she follow them to the Library as she was with Eve at the time?

1.) He thought he was teleporting in on his own (notice how he bombed out of the later scene on his own?) and it took him a second to notice that the door was functioning both ways, i.e. properly.
2.) Lamia went off to lick her wounds. She'd had a very, very weird day.

@Stick: Will the Harley Quinn / Midnighter / Root / River Tam version of Cassandra be back?

Midnighter!! Nice catch. Hey, she's still in there, somewhere ...

@Anonymous: When will this loose group ever become a team? By now I expected more cohesiveness and character development.

By episode 5? Nah.  For me, the whole POINT of the show is to slow play the evolution of the relationships and character development. People change slowly. Let's live in that for a while.  That way, you feel more like you've earned those relationships in later seasons, and you haven't burned through emotional arcs so fast that you're resorting to soap-opera contortions in S4.

@Rhea Lee: I was wondering, who hid the Apple in the pearl? When Flynn showed up at the conclave as his "evil" self, Dulaque seemed to be surprised at him acting out of character, so it looked like his plan didn't involve saddling the Librarians with the apple. Was the apple there at the Vatican for a long time, quietly waiting for a victim?

That is a mystery lost to time. But that effect was probably why the Dragons found it fascinating/collectible.

@Dan: 1. Did Kane actively petition to be this show's "Hardison", re: Stone's relationship with Cassie?
2. Were the different eye colors a conscious nod to Green Lantern or did it simply come about as a means of providing a visual cue to the audience when someone was "possessed" by the apple?
3. Flynn's clothes in the pilot were, in my humble opinion, quite similar to the clothes worn by the Tenth, Eleventh, and Eighth Doctors. The white suit this week reminded me of the Fifth Doctor. Any chance we'll see Flynn in a velvet opera cape, insanely long scarf, or question mark jumper before the season is over?
4.) (Not really a question about the episode, but: Is it too soon to start looking for info about a potential DVD release of the first season?)


1.) I don't see that relationship as a parallel, but eh, it's your show as much as mine.  But no, this is all us exploring character space in Season One.
2.) Not a reference to Green Lantern, but indeed a reference to each of the characters' sins.  Using references from classical sources, we matched colors to: Stone was Lust, Cassandra = Wrath, Baird = Envy and Flynn = Pride.
3.) That's more a coincidence, honestly that when you try to go "quirky, slightly dated look for a thin guy", your costumers run into the same space.  The white suit was a callback to the third Librarian movie, not a Dr. Who reference.
4.) We already have the DVD commentary dates booked.

@wilderebellion: What happened to those Japanese 20somethings from the beginning? Did the dragon scare their pants off or were they his evening snack?

They did indeed escape. Nobody believes their story. Well, almost nobody. A secret kaiju task force was sent to investigate the area ...

@Neil Jasper: Cassie's transformation when she was holding the apple seemed much darker than the other characters. Stone, Flynn and Baird all changed in ways that were bad, but made sense for each one - Stone's artistic snobbery, Flynn's desire to wield the Library's magical power rather than taking responsibility for it, Baird's will to make other people follow orders. 

The worst possible version of Cassie seemed to have a desire to kill and cause widespread destruction for its own sake - which seemed quite a shift from her normal nature. If the changes are all dark reflections of the character's personality, what should we draw from this about Cassie?  She comes across as somewhat innocent, but twice now she's shown that she's not averse to changing the world for millions of people to suit her needs or desires.

I think "twice" is not quite right. She didn't know the full extent of the magical world/stakes when she cut her deal with The Serpent Brotherhood the first time, and she was convinced that they were going to help people.  After all, even some fans of the show are saying that it doesn't seem right for the Library to lock up knowledge. Congratulations, that's Lamia's point of view. 

As to her worst possible version -- I think the thing to focus on is more about how her potential was thwarted (and you hear more about this later) and she felt powerless. That's what was acting out. That said, if we go more seasons, Cassandra' relationship to power is going to be an interesting thing to watch. We can discuss this more after tonight, and the science fair episode ...

Kevin: I'm having a hard time "suspending my disbelief" that Stone would "crack heads" over differing opinions of interpretations of art, Flynn/Eve would take over the world, Cassandra would kill (as a byproduct) and Ezekiel basically would do no worst than what he is everyday? He must be a saint that gets up on the wrong side of the bed everyday. Just put me traffic and remove my inhibition and the results wouldn't be good (am I right?). Is this foreshadowing or purely comedy?

Ezekiel has very few inhibitions. It's almost as if we're laying some thematic pipe about the thief being the most spiritually advanced ...

@Anonymous: Is The Librarians going to be available on Netflix or hulu (it doesn't look to be streaming currently)? I'm going through the other comments but haven't seen it mentioned. Unfortunately TNT's website won't allow me to watch online because my service provider doesn't participate/support the online viewing or something.

Unfortunately, those options will not open up until later in the year. Sorry, not our decision on that one.

@Thea: 1. Out of curiosity, is there a chance we'll get to know Eve's middle name this season?
2. Eve's "Come back alive, Librarian" recurred in this episode... It's their thing, right? But I do hope it's not a foreshadowing. I really took a liking to how her relationship with Flynn works and they're making the most out of their brand of normal.
3. Her hair seems to be more relaxed as the episodes go by (from the neat bun, now she's letting it free more often). Sort of her getting more acquainted with the whole "magic exists even if you don't know it" and in sync with her LITs? 


1.) She doesn't have one.
2.) ... you may be upset at some point during the year.
3.) As noted above, kind of, yes. 

@David B: 1. With the break-neck speed of development this show had, how much world-building/bible did you guys get down before writing (so you wouldn't cross important wires), and how much did you just wing? Having a formalized structure and established monster courts is a good gag, but it also drops some pretty big facts about the universe. Is that a, "This is how things work, and we're just hinting at the tip of the iceberg" decision or a "yeah that's great and we'll worry about elves in season 2"
2. Did the Western Dragons capture the Apple of Discord themselves (maybe during the Trojan War?), or was that a plant and part of Du Lac's plan?
3. Did the Roman Dragon have a name? If so, mind telling? (Also, nice on having the flame reflected in the eye-- that's a great detail!)

1.) We spent a chunk of time coming up with a loose magical history/philosophy, so we know what's consistent in the Library-verse. But we left ourselves lots of room to improvise.  We are indeed kind of just exploring, seeing how the world opens up as we write for some bits, but other sections of the magic world we've locked in. Its about 50/50.
2.) The plant was part of DuLaque's plan.
3.) His name is owned by another company.

@Amber: 1) are Jenkins and Dulaque brothers? I was getting the vibe that they were brothers, or at least they used to be good friends, especially at the end.
2) is Jake Stone going to learn to fight? I loved seeing Kane in Leverage and his fight scenes are great.
3) is the yellow rain coat that Flynn is wearing the same one that Hardison is wearing in the Miracle job? I just watched that episode a little bit ago and thought it looked familiar.

1.) They were very close.
2.) As a matter of fact, yes. It's a S2 plot point, and there's one moment in S1 ... well, spoiler.
3.) I'll ask. It may well be!

@Shelley: 1.) Fun to see Cassandra use math for evil. I love mathematics (even though I don't understand a lot of it). It's always great to see smart people. I thought it was a bit sad, really that Ezekiel is the worst version of himself. Are there plans to redeem the character over the course of the series or is he the anti-hero? 
2.) Will the DVD release be the extended versions of the episodes or the televised ones? (hoping for extended versions!) 
3.)  When does TNT announce series renewals? I seem to remember they were usually late, April, maybe? The show seems to be getting great ratings from what I've been reading so I hope to see news on season two soon!

1.) Ezekiel would be very hurt that you feel he needs to be redeemed. As as you'll see from tonight, it's probably best he's not.
2) Extended.
3.) Whenever they want. All joking aside, we should know in the next two months or so. Maybe.

@Christina: SPOILERS FOR 101/102 While watching the extended versions on iTunes, I was taken aback by what was chosen to cut. I felt cheated; had you not mentioned extended cuts were on iTunes, I would have a different opinion on the main characters then I do now.

The conversations Jake had in the bar about his dad, Cassandra had with Jake about the last time her parents had been proud of her as being when she was 12, Baird had with Ezekial about his OTHER FBI file, and Ezekial's comment about why he is a thief provide layers of info about them and explain a bit about their personalities that were missing for me up until I saw that.   It's like Jake is obligated to work the family business, Ezekial may not only steal for fun and profit, and Cassie feels like an outcast in her own family. I didn't take any of that away on my TNT broadcast viewing.

To my questions, 1) who gets to decide what gets cut? 2)Is it some arbitrary number (you must cut 8 min) and you just try to remove what makes the most sense? 3) Does it happen at a higher level of production (where the decision what to cut is made) and you have to roll with it?

1. & 3.) Dean and I decide what to cut, and we cut things because ...
2.) 41:30.  That's how long each broadcast episode is, and even though we got a bit more time for the pilot (about a minute and a half more) that number is a hard out.  Commercials, kids, that's the way it goes. We must hit that number. Full stop. So the stuff that gets cut is anything which will NOT break the logic chain of the episode. A particularly ugly problem we faced, too, was having to push all the Charlene material, some of which was originally in 102, into 101 for contract reasons, which gutted a lot of that character work out of the 1st episode.  

Two more factors complicated things: a.) New show, so we didn't know what page count paced out to the right running length. Each show is highly idiosyncratic. Leverage, for example, paced out to 50-55 pages per script, and anything even close to 50 ran short. Librarians, we realized about three scripts in, paces out to 48-50 pages per episode.  We wrote long and shot long for the first few.
b.) Different directors wind up giving you slightly different runtimes with the same page count.  Dean does these beautiful one-take scenes, but it's difficult to cut out of them, so you need to write to that.  Roksin and Frakes shoot different dialogue paces, different coverage and cutting patterns. 

@VideoBeagle: from 101/102 Wouldn't the contents of a law book are public domain, wouldn't the specific printing of it be copyrighted? Like a specific printing of the bible, or a performance of a Mozart piece? Or are law books printed as as public domain objects, in and of themselves?

Fuzzy enough that nobody cares. Or at least lawyers don't care. What's the basis for that lawsuit?

@bluehex: Two questions. 1.) One about the episode - the goodbye between DuLaque and Jenkins (plus Jenkins's obvious distress throughout the episode) seem to strongly hint at a previous romantic relationship. Good catch, or was I completely brainwashed by the Internet and see things that are not there? 
2.) Second question is about the fireaxe - it was emphasized quite a bit in promo photos/videos, to the point of becoming somewhat iconic. However, not a glimpse of it in the show itself. Should I look forward to the axe making an appearance - even a cameo would do - or was it just a prop for a prop's sake in the promos?

1.)  ... they were close.
2.) The axe appears in tonight's episode. You'll note Cassandra's holding a skull in some of the promos, and Ezekiel a ray gun, which he never wields in the show. The nice promo people -- who did a pretty great job with the show -- were just playing around with tones and props.

@ChelseaNH:1. It would be nice to see a fleeing boy fall down for once.
2. Hopefully Stone will express an appreciation for classical music and even (gasp!) opera. (Hating on opera must be easy because everybody does it.)
3. Since I've actually visited Portland, I hope to see some familiar locations. Powell's is probably too hard to arrange, but the rose test garden is cool (Portland is the Rose City) and the Japanese garden is lovely.


1.) Minotaur ep, like three weeks ago. We're equal opportunity stumblers.
2.) I don't think appreciating the classics in one artistic form necessarily extends to another. Ezekiel on the other hand ...
3.) We've been trying to get into the Japanese Garden for years. The main problem is, the parking is too nightmarish to get the production trucks in place.  We will endevour to bring you more quirky corners of the city.

@lisa king: Does the desk resetting mean that Flynn is about to return and the Annex is getting things ready for him?

At the risk of spoilers, I will say the desk is more a clue about Baird than Flynn.

@Cara B: 1) It seemed like Cassandra's darkest side was "kill all the things!" I know that she said it was because she wanted to practically apply the theories constantly flying around her brain, but was there a little bit of revenge in there (like, the world never took me seriously so *there*!)? [Also, I was a huge fan to see her go *so* dark. I hope that we see it again and that it won't be so easily turned off--I'd love to see everyone try and deal with it.]
2. "Travel well" was a super odd phrase, especially since Jenkins makes it a point to stay in the Annex. Is it a hint re: what's to come (as in: are we going to see Jenkins having to make another one of those choices that he talked about)? And/or was it a jab at one of the last conversations that the pair had?
3. Can we get more Ezekiel/Jenkins? PLEASE? 
4. At some point before this, you mentioned that there was a group of folks who was in charge of making the magical confines in which objects were/are held. Would they have any answers for Flynn and Co. re: the Library's whereabouts? More importantly, will we ever meet them?
5. During the Writer's Vlog for this episode, you briefly showed two of the boards. (The following assumes that they weren't meant to mislead.) The characters seemed to be on N-S and E-W continuums, with Baird being on the structured end and Ezekiel being the complete opposite. Since Stone and Cassandra are in the middle (with no real indication either way) are they the neutrals of the group? Or will we see them head in a certain direction?


1.) Cassandra has a lot of rage which she's ill-equipped to deal with. A big part of 1st season is her getting a handle on how her life's gone.
2.) It is an old-fashioned phrase, spoken out of habit between the sort of men who travelled a lot. 
3.) We shall try.
4.) The Library is untethered in space and time, floating in the Void, the Space between Spaces. It's not really anybody's realm of expertise. Well, that's not quite true, there is someone very good at opening doors. Someone you'll be meeting soon.
5.) Four characters, four corners of a square. Nothing more significant than that.  

@Stefan Jones: These days, when you -- producers & creators -- create and plan a show, do plans and rights for things like comics, novelizations, and RPGs get discussed right from the get-go? Put another way, I'm wondering how important these media extensions are these days.

The rights for such products are set forth in the original contracts for the show, before it's shot. The plans are usually made later, if necessary.

@amarillion: 1. Kane as Stone in glasses, speaking different languages and being incredibly adorably geeky. MOAR please?! Also Stone's darkside was getting to totally ignore everyone else and indulge in his art geekery?!! Heeehehe
2. Stone and Cassie working together -how much of a strain will badCassie put on that friendship?
3. You once mentioned pondered that outing Stone as Gay and Artistic was "too many hats", so I offer two terms: Bisexual and/or Sapiosexual (One who finds intelligence the most sexually attractive feature). Bi would be far less of a gotcha as he can be attracted to men & women.
4. The conclave: Was it deliberate that some factions seemed to have a mineral/metallic representation, or just you sneaking in more RPG references?
Drake - Eastern dragons - Jade and Pearl?
Western Dragons - Gold?
Dabra(sp?): City of Bronze - the Djinn
Sililandria: Fae Legions - Silver ?
Cú Chulainn of the Iron Kingdom
African group?
Guild of Fictional Entities 
World Crime League.
5. Tall women who's name/Faction was a bunch of consonants in a row - Blodeuwedd maybe, from the Welsh Tylwyth Teg Faction?


1.) Stone's need to possess the things he was deprived of was more the sin, but we did find it amusing. We needed to keep it mild, to escalate the threats properly.
2.) Not much -- he's going to write this off the way we might write off That Night We All Got Hammered. Filed, but not obsessed over.
3.) Hey, four drinks in, who knows? My assistant once pegged me, after years of conversation, as a Kinsey 2 (I have an odd office), so who am I to be setting guardrails up?
4.) Although a lot of those groups and factions do show up in role-playing games -- I briefly had trouble convincing clearances that Everquest had not, in fact, invented the City of Brone -- they are actually classical references which both ourselves and the RPG designers had appropriated.
5.) Think more along the Necropolis type of faction.

@watsdaughter: 1.) This is sort of speculation more than a question, but here goes: I LOVED the scene between Du Lac and Jenkins. My guess: if Du Lac is Lancelot, then Jenkins has to be Gawain. Jenkins’ speech about complicated choices maps pretty well onto the tragic events surrounding the fall of Camelot – Gawain refusing to participate in an attack against Lancelot because of their friendship, Gawain’s brothers and sons getting killed in that attack, the resulting war. Could Du Lac’s line about “I had to try, or I would be the monster you think I am” be a reference to his attempted rescue of Guinevere (which led him into the fateful attack)? Are you going to say what the answer is or do we have to wait until the finale? (Bonus: Wikipedia says Gawain was “a friend to young knights,” a mentor and exemplar of knighthood in a lot of stories. Jenkins is totally becoming a reluctant friend and mentor to the LITs.)
2.) If the arrows were activated by sound, why didn’t they try being really, really quiet, instead of making lots of noise? 
3.) It seems like with Flynn back, Eve didn’t get to do much Guarding. When she and Flynn were in a scene together it seemed like it was him doing most of the physical stuff (like stopping her from stepping into the arrows and running around drawing fire in the booby-trapped chamber). In an episode that was so much about her professional and personal relationship with Flynn and how he needs to not undermine her, shouldn’t she have gotten to do some of the day-saving? That said, I love their relationship overall – their chemistry, the apple possession scene, the way Flynn wanted to make it clear that he respected her as an equal at the end of the episode. And I guess sending Flynn back out to continue the search is an example of an element of the Guardian’s job. But more Eve derring-do would be nice.
4.) How did they get out of the dragon’s lair? They ask the dragon how to get out, he laughs, and then they’re out. Did I miss some implication of how that happened?
5.) What would happen if someone held the Apple of Discord while wearing Santa’s Hat?


1.) Even if you are right about who's who (and not saying you are), please remember -- there's no guarantee the version of the story you know is what actually happened. Just ask Rosalind Franklin and Lise Meitner.
2.) Flynn tends to solve problems by doing the opposite of what the designers of those problems anticipate. It works more often in these odd circumstances.
3.) There was only really one sequence of danger, and that was a perfectly good example of why Flynn actually needs a Guardian. That said, there's a reason she's the LiT's Guardian ...
4.) Extended cut, I believe you see the door manifest in the wall next to the dragon.
5.) The emotional equivalent of putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole.

****************************

Okay, see you next week for not just one but two, count'em two fine episodes.  Make sure to block off the time.  You will not want to miss either one.  One of them has a tiny throwaway moment of Jenkins backstory. And I'm not telling you which one.

367 comments:

1 – 200 of 367   Newer›   Newest»
Stacey said...

Thank you, again! Entertaining and enlightening and always appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing out how the Apple really wasn't just about exposing the worst person they could be. It came off, to me, like the more a person repressed their 'dark' side, the more the Apple affected them by taking those restraints off. Ezekiel, with very little restraint, was fairly unaffected. Cassandra with her brain grape, Stone with his double life, etc. all are repressing the 'worst' of themselves. And the Apple simply stopped that. I like that a lot better than the simplistic 'worst version of themselves'.

Reverend Peter Sears said...

5.) The emotional equivalent of putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole.

That right there is funny, I don't care who you are.

Don said...

"My assistant once pegged me, after years of conversation, as a Kinsey 2 (I have an odd office)"

Oh honestly, that's just blatant thesaurus trolling right there. Pegged indeed.

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(NOTE the first: the trick to showrunning is to fill the room with smart people, and then ask questions with a tone of voice that implies you already have an answer, but you would like to hear alternates before pitching your own.)

This is also a key GM-ing skill, really.

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