Tuesday, June 02, 2009

Una Serie De Catastroficas Desdichas

I've stayed out of the Sotomayor thing because, well, I'm a television writer. But this latest bullshit from Pat Buchanan annoys the hell out of me (courtesy Washington Monthly):

The New York Times had a report over the weekend on Sonia Sotomayor's background, which noted that the judge, as a young woman at Princeton, "spent summers reading children's classics she had missed in a Spanish-speaking home and 're-teaching' herself to write 'proper English' by reading elementary grammar books."

Pat Buchanan, at his most Pat Buchanan-esque, is not only using this anecdote to mock the judge, but he continues to push a baseless, insulting far-right line about Sotomayor's intelligence.

"Well, I, again in that Saturday piece, she went to Princeton. She graduated first in her class it said. But she herself said she read, basically classic children's books to read and learn the language and she read basic English grammars and she got help from tutors. I think that, I mean if you're, frankly, if you're in college and you're working on Pinocchio or on the troll under the bridge, I don't think that's college work."

For what it's worth, my piss-poor Spanish improved immensely once I started reading children's books in that language. The technique was suggested to me by a web acquaintance who used to be an actual spy. So, you know, good enough for people who have to learn how to speak a language well enough not to get caught and tortured, not good enough for Nixon's speechwriter.

Also note the insulting use of "...she went to Princeton. She graduated first in her class it said."(emphasis mine) This is not he said/ she said. She graduate summa cum laude from fucking Princeton. They write this shit down. They keep records. This is, as we used to say in the science business, an objective goddam truth. And Ivy League schools don't give out affirmative-action summa cum laude's. It is worth noting that they did, for decades, hand out out gentleman's C's.

When simply Googling "Sotomayor/first in her class", you get an awful lot of right wing websites, and the comments in there are revealing. They remind me of when I wrote about Imus insulting the Rutgers women's basketball team with the phrase "nappy-headed hos." Not the article, but about a particularly informative and sincere exchange that started in the comments and then, if memory serves, ended with a perfectly polite set of e-mails.

One reader didn't agree with my characterization of the basketball scholarship players as in a "power negative" position. As he put it "They're going to to a top-level university I'd never get a chance to go to."

And what I didn't want to say at the time was: well, yeah, but it's not like they took your spot. These young women got scholarships based on sporting ability -- offered to thousands of students every year based on skill, thousands of hours of practice and hard work, and sheer luck -- and then had to maintain their grades once they were at that school. If you think that any coach of the women's basketball team at any major university has the clout to grade pad, you're adorable.

This is the same sort of madness that makes the reader of one right-wing blog contribute:
Derb — I’ve been hoping that someone might be bold enough to rain on the Sotomayor “compelling life story” parade.

The woman grew up in the capital of the world, went to two Ivy League schools, and was blessed by Providence with the precisely correct right race-gender two-fer for the moment.

This is a story of privilege, dammit, not adversity.

I'm sure when Sonia Sotomayor was six years old, being raised by a single Puerto Rican mother in the Bronx in the 70's, she knew she could kick back and riiiiiide it out, because she was on fucking Easy Street, baby. As we all remember so well, the Bronx in the 70's was a peaceful racial utopia.

People this stupid should have their license to chew gum revoked.

It's no great insight to say the default setting of American culture has become a lurking fear that "somebody else got something you wanted" mixed with boiling resentment at the mere suggestion that anyone at any time may have it harder than you do, but it's worth stating, plainly:

If you didn't get into Harvard, and all the black and Hispanic Americans suddenly disappeared, odds are you would still not be getting into Harvard.

(If you do get into Harvard, however, feel free to apply for one of many quirky scholarships, including one just for people named Downer. Huh.)

Not to belabor the point (too late), but two things in this world are generally, 99.9999% true:

1.) If you are unhappy with your life, it's not because a brown person made it that way.

2.) If you end any argument or statement with " ... is that racist of me to say?" -- the answer is always "yes."

Glad to help.

(EDIT: Hey, what about when a black person commits a crime against a white person? Sure, you go rock that argument out. I'll wait.)

72 comments:

Lady Niko said...

You hit it right on the head my friend. :-p

'Nuff said - the right wing polticos won't be happy w/ anyone Obama picks, so they have to tear her down.

Gah, whatever happened to cooperation for the greater good? I certainly don't see it happening in the US govt these days.

Anonymous said...

Regarding 1.) If you are unhappy with your life, it is not because a brown person made it that way.

I imagine John McCain and Sarah Palin would feel differently about this. Sarah also got second place in Miss Alaska to the one brown person in Alaska, which I find hilarious.

kkisser said...

The Right Wingers aren't even trying to cover their racist loathing anymore. Which in some ways, is good, as that just shows them for the troglodytes they are, but man, is it a nasty spectacle to watch.

TortoiseGeek said...

Thank YOU for the small measure of sanity in this media/right-wing circus!

It boggles my mind that even here in New Mexico, there are white people who speak in hushed tones about "those people" -- meaning Native Americans or Hispanics.

Um.... where the hell do you think you are, gringo pendejo? This part of the country *belonged* to them for *centuries* before your 'merican-manifest-destiny-jaysus-fearing-racist ass showed up!

(and I can say that: I am a gringo!)

Tim W. said...

I often belabour my lot in life as a white, heterosexual, english speaking, able-bodied male born to upper-middle class, university educated parents. I mean, what kind of chance did I have in life to succeed with cards like that dealt to me?

I'd also like to add to your list at the bottom. Anyone who begins a statement with the words "I'm not racist, but..." is racist. I've never met anyone who admitted they were racist, but I've met a whole lot of racist people in my life. You do the math on that.

Anonymous said...

I know this is going to come up at some point:

"But ... but ... minorities get all the breaks. You can't even physically assault them without it being called a hate crime!"

To which I have this to say: there's a difference between a flaming bag of dog poop on someone's porch, and a flaming cross in their yard. The one is a hate crime because it sends a message to an entire community, and transcends the mere act of setting light to some random lumber. It's something that even children can understand.

Anonymous said...

"I've never met anyone who admitted they were racist, but I've met a whole lot of racist people in my life."

Well of course not! Racists are people who have adopted irrational beliefs. Me, I'm just telling it like it is, the forces of Political Correctness be damned.

Stefan Jones said...

Guys like Pat Buchanan are proof that there's no such thing as Karma, because if there were he'd have caught some disease that causes his mouth and tongue to break out in fragile, pus-filled boils.

And the creepy, be-suited Young Republican interns who do his research would be arrested for trespassing in petting zoos after hours.

thingswithwings said...

I understand what you mean by "because, well . . . I'm a TV writer" as a preface to this post, but I just wanted to say that posts like this are what give me confidence in you as a TV writer, give me confidence that you won't end up writing hurtful and shamefully racist/sexist TV like so many other TV writers out there. I think the manner in which visible characters are portrayed is extremely important - that it's important for young ladies and queers and people of colour to see themselves on TV, to see themselves doing cool shit and not dead/raped/beaten/written out. It's posts like this that make me so, so excited for the next season of Leverage.

Thank you for being a voice of reason in an increasingly conservative, racist, sexist, assholic media.

Jim Wright (Stonekettle Station) said...

Well said, as always, John.

When I saw Buchanan's blathering this morning I intended to write a response, then I saw this and realized you'd said exactly what I intended, only better. Thanks, man, you've saved me an hour's work this morning. Instead I'll just link to this post, if you don't mind.

jfs said...

Thanks for the link to the ChristianParty website. I now have an overwhelming urge to dip my computer in a bucket of bleach.

John said...

I have nothing really useful to add to the discussion, but I must tell you, Rogers:

I'm working on starting a new site and searching high and low for a witty name for it.

Thanks to this post, I think I have settled on "Many Quirky Scholarships." Man that just rolls off the tongue.

Thank you ever so much. Your royalty checks will be in the mail.

marag said...

And this is why we love you. Well, that and Leverage...and Blue Beetle...and you get the idea.

Sean Fagan said...

Wow. Thanks, seriously. I've been so burned out by all the crap over the past decades I can't get coherently angry any longer. So I always appreciate someone else doing it for me.

A comment in support of children's books: when I was in high school, taking French, my mother got me a set of Peanuts books -- in French. They were so useful and helpful that I've given foreign-language comic books (most recently, a German Calvin & Hobbes) to children of friends over the years. Highly recommended practice.

Anonymous said...

Unbelievable!!! Finally!!! a human being with two sides of a brain working at full capacity. Thank you John!!! Please, someone publish this article everywhere.

Kathryn said...

Thank you for saying this!

As for learning a language by reading children's books. Wonderful idea! I have to say, there are a LOT of native English speakers who's use of language would be improved by doing the same thing.

Woodrow "asim" Jarvis Hill said...

I want to second what thingswithwings said. I've been enjoying your writings for years, but seeing what you put on TV has been a breath of fresh air.

Many Fans of Color who are online have had a rough year of it; there's been a lot of "not getting it" floating around about discussions of race and related issues, esp. in American Culture. One of the bright spots, frankly, has been watching Hardison. Esp. for me, a African American man who's loved computers ever since he was a kid, seeing him on the screen has been almost as awesome as the years I've spent reading this blog -- if mostly in silence.

I just wanted to say, thanks.

anonymousassistant said...

Anonymous (the second one) said: "I know this is going to come up at some point..."

I'd like to point out that, two hours and seventeen commenters later, not one person has disagreed with John. (Except possibly the third anonymous; I'm not sure.)

Just saying, conservatives aren't the only ones who have an echo chamber.

Skyfleur said...

Re : children books. First language is French despite an american dad who speaks three languages fluently, can understand three others. He never talked with me in english or yiddish (though i know how to say bring me your wallet, grand father, courtesy of my grand parents or other unsavory slang terms like putz, schmuck or more elaborate insults like guai kak ofinyam (i always get that one wrong) so i was pretty much only French raised. When I went to university, i had my two majors english and law (yeah we can do that here), and i had to read in English, I did start with children books and I have always advised people who wanted to start reading and learning the language to start with those. It's the best method.
Not one teacher in highschool suggested it to learn it faster and better. instead we went to see movies like Henry V (yeah ! love the movie but not the best way to learn modern english)

as for your post, i posted it both on facebook and twitter. Best I've read in a while. Thanks !

Darkrose said...

John, posts like this are why I totally want to marry you. Although since my current marriage is still recognized in California for the moment, it would be bigamy--which is suppose proves that same-sex marriage is just the top of a slippery slope.

Anyway. Thank you for getting it.

Joe Helfrich said...

"If you think that any coach of the women's basketball team at any major university has the clout to grade pad, you're adorable."

Not that I'm saying that they could, would, or did, but when I was at Rutgers it was a hell of a lot more likely for the Women's Basketball coach or the men's soccer coach might have been able to do these things than the men's football coach, since both of those teams made the NCAA finals reasonably regularly. The football team was a regular joke on campus.

wrongshore said...

A friend spent a whole day prefacing every word out of his mouth with "I'm not a racist, but..."

Not once did he touch on race. It was a pretty awesome day.

(Learning French? Read Tintin! Despite the racism.)

Anonymous said...

"I'd like to point out that, two hours and seventeen commenters later, not one person has disagreed with John. (Except possibly the third anonymous; I'm not sure.)

Just saying, conservatives aren't the only ones who have an echo chamber."


Fair enough, nobody has commented on how easy minorities get it. I don't know that this makes for an "echo chamber", though: for an "echo chamber" to be recognizable as such, it requires a lot of people who believe things that no sane and informed person would on his own.

Tom Galloway said...

"And Ivy League schools don't give out affirmative-action summa cum laude's"

Well, no, but some Ivy League schools, for a while, were coming close to handing them out like Crackerjack prizes to most graduates in general.

While this postdates Sotomayor's Princeton time, and Princeton itself has been trying to cut down on grade inflation more than any other Ivy, the was a period at Harvard circa the turn of this century where Harvard made honors graduation a joke. A Boston Globe story revealed that 91 percent of Harvard students graduated with honors in 2001, with half the grades awarded that year being A or A-. 51% of Yalies, and 44% of Princetonites, graduated with honors that year. Harvard has since limited the number of honors graduates to a mere 60%.

Don't get me wrong; Sotomayor's undoubtedly a very smart person. But at least for while, long after her own Ivy experience, you couldn't necessarily say that an Ivy summa cum laude really did indicate uber-uber-smarts as one'd think. And, for what it's worth, her not being a Princeton legacy bumps her up on the likely smarts scale. While there are certainly legacies who are very smart and would get in irregardless, there are others who, well, wouldn't.

Jim Wright said...

Turns out I did have something more to say on this subject. Damn you, Rogers, instead of saving me an hour this morning, you cost me two hours of valuable writing time. Bastard. Damn it, man, stop making me think!

James Baxendale-Downer said...

Hi, my name is James Baxendale-Downer.

I wish I had been accepted to Harvard. That would have been nice. :)

TrentC said...

wrongshore:

Obligatory xkcd link

Alan Scott said...

Anonymous #1, it's worth noting that Alaska is 26% brown, just like the rest of the US--They're just a different sort of brown that we're used to in the lower 48.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous #3 here; the point of my comment about racism was to illustrate why nobody thinks they're racist. Racism by definition is irrational, but nobody thinks they are irrational, therefore nobody thinks they are racists.

If I were to have a grudge against, say, Tyroleans, to me it would be an absolutely sane and reasonable thing, and anyone who tried to tell me otherwise would seem like a naive fool from my perspective. From an outside observer's perspective, of course, I would be the irrational one and a bigot.

gwangung said...

Just saying, conservatives aren't the only ones who have an echo chamber.

Bet you'd say this if all comments said it was hot in Death Valley.

Intelligent comments. PLEASE

Anonymous said...

My life sucks and you want me to take responsibility for it?

No dice, Rogers! You just hate white people like all of your treacherous Canuck brethren. I bet you're a Freemason or a Crypto-Jew too!

Anonymous said...

Hey, what about when a black person commits a crime against a white person? Sure, you go rock that argument out. I'll wait.

What the HELL is that? Is it some sort of parody site? It doesn't even make any sense, and it's astonishingly offensive. Seriously, the hell?

zbdb said...

I read the article (& all the comments) & liked it a lot - but really, is nobody going to call out:

"1.) If you are unhappy with your life, it's not because a brown person made it that way."

If that was prefaced by "in this COUNTRY" rather than in this world, fine - hyperbole pass, but fine. World?

Um. Off the top of my head: Tibet. Sierra Leone. Congo. Kashmir. The Amazon basin. Sri Lanka. North Korea. Liberia. Uganda. Sudan. Saudi Arabia. Syria. East Timor. Burma. Cambodia. China.

I think quite a fair number of brown people might disagree with #1, & there would be a lot more, but they're dead.

Let's see how that rattles around in the echo chamber.

Max Vaehling said...

Children's books. Absolutely. Anybody who ever tried learning a different language should at least relate. One would think.

A friend of mine who spent a lot of time abroad recommended Sesame Street for picking up the basics. That made immediate sense to me. They explain everything, repeat things, talk slowly... Helps with the racism, too. If I remember my 70's US Sesame Street, they always had quite a diverse cast.

John the Scientist said...

While I agree with your post, you did get one thing generally wrong:

If you think that any coach of the women's basketball team at any major university has the clout to grade pad, you're adorable.

They don't have to pad directly, but they do it indirectly.

I was a TA in a weed-out General Chemistry class in a Big East school. While the athletes were rarely at the top of the class, they rarely failed unless they really tried at it.

The reason was that the Athletic Department provided tutors, some of whom sat in the damn class and took notes for the athlete in question. I never witnessed any grade padding, because the professors and TAs in the academic departments would have had an anaphylactic reaction and sprayed any attempt to coerce us all over the press. However, I was asked to give those tutors help by providing sample problems and other materials for cram sessions for the athletes who were doing poorly. I told them to kiss off.

Those students who needed tutors to take notes for them never would have survived in college without the support of the Athletic Department, and they retained almost nothing from their classes.

The other unfortunate side effect of athletic programs is the slide in admission standards - the standards for athletes have to be the same as the gen pop. So, in order to admit athletes with low SATs, the SAT and other requirements at state schools are set so that many kids who should not be in college get admitted, and without private tutoring they wash out. Washing them out quickly was the role of the huge (400+ student) Freshman-level weed-out classes that I TAed my first two years in the Ph.D. program.

I don't want to slander all the athletes I had in my classes - I had divers and swimmers I specifically remember who were at the top of my classes, actually some of them should have been in the Honors program, and I told them so.

It's also interesting to note that when I did teach the Honors sections a few years later, there were no athletes in any of my classes.

Emily Blake said...

The school where I teach is full of kids whose parents speak no English, and who very rarely read anything in any language. As a result, my students can speak English and write on a basic level, but their grammar is terrible because they are always trying to transpose the rules of Spanish.

I do the best I can, but by the time they get to me my job is to teach them higher level thinking skills, not grammar. So many of my students - even the brightest ones - end up graduating without a strong grammar background.

Sounds like Sotomayor was smart enough to realize her weakness and correct it. How many of us can say the same?

John the Scientist said...

My wife was an illegal immigrant at one time, and after the amnesty of 1986, when she knew she could go to college, she spent all her spare time when she was working the desk at a Chinese restaurant to read vocabulary and grammar building books from SAT manuals to the NYT crossword. Being Chinese, her math was stellar ;-). You have to be motivated get proficient at a foreign language, and to criticize Sotomayor for that is ugly, stupid, and just plain petty.

I read Russian children's books myself before living in the USSR in the late 80s. It not only builds vocabulary, grammar, and gives the rhythm of everyday speech, it provides a cultural background that adult language classes do not provide. We speak only Chinese to our kids at home, and I have a completely different vocabulary map in Chinese than in Russian - I could not name a single dinosaur in Russian, and I know most of the famous ones in Chinese.

Mary Sue said...

We live in a country where a 14 year old 6th generation citizen who speaks no Spanish and lives in a wealthy neighborhood and goes to a privleged school can be approached by a fellow classmate who backs her into a corner and demands to see her green card.

Of course I reported it to the school authorities, the little shit got a three day suspension. This was back during the Proposition 187 bull, but I've had complete strangers approach me on the street and demand my green card, too.

The funny thing, it all stopped when I moved to Oregon. They don't 'see' many Hispanic people here, so they're less likely to be able to pick out my Hispanic features and more likely to assume I'm part black.

Apparently, there was a famous University of Oregon football player with a similar last name in the 1960s who was black, and my very, very pale skin is attributed to a mixed marriage.

anonymousassistant said...

TrentC: Awesome! I forgot about that one.

Anonymous @ 1:44pm-- I don't know that this makes for an "echo chamber", though: for an "echo chamber" to be recognizable as such, it requires a lot of people who believe things that no sane and informed person would on his own.

I guess I always thought it simply meant a group of people who all agreed unanimously, reinforcing one another's beliefs. Maybe I've been misusing it this whole time.

Gwangung-- Bet you'd say this if all comments said it was hot in Death Valley. Intelligent comments. PLEASE.

That's just not true. Sorry.

I thought we were discussing matters of opinion, as opposed to factual statements regarding temperature. I don't consider people I disagree with to be "insane," as Anonymous puts it.

This is al well off-topic, for which I apologize. This was a very well-written post, John, and I totally agree. (Yes, I am part of the echo chamber.)

Nato said...

I really worry that our professional politicians have lost the ability to see beyond party lines. We need more Republicans who are willing to look at Sotomayor's record and go, "Hey, she tries a lot of cases based carefully on the facts at hand, rather than any overriding ideology. And hey, bonus, she might bring a novel perspective to a court that interprets law for the benefit of all Americans. That sounds all right to me."

And, to be fair, we need more Democrats who will openly admit that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid seem increasingly unfit to run a sidewalk lemonade stand.

Joe Helfrich said...

"And, to be fair, we need more Democrats who will openly admit that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid seem increasingly unfit to run a sidewalk lemonade stand."

I wouldn't trust those two to make change for a quarter. Even when they're not on the wrong side of the issues, they're completely incompetent at managing the message.

I think I first advocated Obey and Dodd for leadership when Obey was threatening to hold up war funding and Dodd was filibustering telecom immunity.

Anonymous said...

I thought we were discussing matters of opinion, as opposed to factual statements regarding temperature. I don't consider people I disagree with to be "insane," as Anonymous puts it.

I don't consider disagreement proof of insanity either, but take a look at the GOP over the past eight years or so and take a look at their fan club. Do you really think history is going to look back on them and say, "Now there's a bunch of people who had their act together"?

caseyssis said...

"So, in order to admit athletes with low SATs, the SAT and other requirements at state schools are set so that many kids who should not be in college get admitted, and without private tutoring they wash out" (emphasis mine).

Wow.

Mike Cane said...

>>>If you didn't get into Harvard, and all the black and Hispanic Americans suddenly disappeared, odds are you would still not be getting into Harvard.

Well the hell with Harvard then!

Brilliant post, Rogers. Nice work.

gwangung said...

That's just not true. Sorry.

I thought we were discussing matters of opinion, as opposed to factual statements regarding temperature. I don't consider people I disagree with to be "insane," as Anonymous puts it.


Mere agreement is necessary but hardly sufficient to form an echo chamber. Again, agreement on things that are not particularly controversial does not constitute an echo chamber. That includes objective facts and widely held opinions.

Now, if you could point out the opinions or statements that could be controversial and why others could plausibly disgree with them, then you might have something. (Like, maybe, we all agreed abortion is solely the province of the woman, no ifs ands or buts [as opposed to total opposition as opposed to reserving it to when the fetus is not viable]).

Anonymous said...

Wrongshore:

I'm not racist, but that's hilarious.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, though Harvard is one of THE hardest schools to get into in the world, once your in, it can be a breeze. Harvard has grade inflation. Which means you don't really have to work hard to get a good GPA. Harvard wants all its students to do well. Many Ivys are like that.

That said, Sotomoyer obviously has all the creds and more to do what she is doing. Who gives a shit that she learned from a children's book. Pat is just pissed he can't rule the world and that he can't speak two languages worth shit. And it truly is sad to see that so many people stand behind him. How can we tackle such important things like human rights and world hunger when racism, sexism, and poverty are at our own doorstep?

And, yeah, the right wing would have torn down ANYONE Obama picked. UGGHH

trail of bread said...

I as I read it Pat Buchanan was trying to suggest she was reading children's books as part of her course work, as opposed to what she was actually doing which was improving her second language off her own bat. Which is laudible and a sign of a diligent perfectionist. Politics is the art of the sly innuendo that allows you say a lie without actually saying it.
As for jocks, my contemporaries on my Physics PhD at a middle rank UK university included a former professional soccer player, and an international swimmer. Some people do just have it all. They were good looking too (I am told). Swines.

Robert said...

It just gets worse. Check out the June 22nd cover at http://nrd.nationalreview.com/

(I'd direct image link but it's not allowed.)

Anonymous said...

The fact that it's harder to get into an ivy-league school than graduate from one actually works against Sotomayor. By her own admission she benefited from affirmative action and didn't have comparable scores on standardized tests to her classmates. But she's certain that the tests are culturally biased against her, so it balanced out. As someone who works in standardized test development, it gets a bit old to see allegedly open minded people operating from a a default or stubbornly held belief that the more sophisticated tests used as college entrance exams haven't had processes developed for decades to detect, account for, and reduce this. I can easily see why she'd irritate conservatives, her ruling on Ricci v. DeStefano confirmed the logically defective legal doctrine of disparate impact: if more minorities fail it than whites, it's legal proof of racism. In the meantime, psychometricians and test developers for years have quietly been studying how you actually tease out culturally biased questions, and accounting for them.

In her defense, she is clearly intelligent and most of her rulings I have read about seem to reflect well on her to me. But between Ricci v. DeStefano and the repeated use of the "wise latina" comment she looks like she's got a great big blind spot that I don't want anywhere near the Supreme Court thank you. There are probably a lot of great candidates out there, but maybe not one with so much cache to people that get all excited by identity politics.

Anonymous said...

Hey, we always knew these wingers were crazy assed liers. They wouldn't know humanity from handgranedes. Folks dealing with them should understand that their racism and miscogeny aren't "personal", meaning that if they know you well, it doesn't matter that your a person of color, just that you could never be received as a guest in their house. Fine for you to wash the windows and diapers.

Anonymous said...

i am a right wing libertarian and i would say i don't dislike sotomayor so much, she has opinions which differ from mine but her record is as clean as a whistle.

I am more open-minded then most standard republican flag wavers, who just follow any opinion the GOP tosses out.

I hope she continues with that pristine record of upholding the constitution.

Anonymous said...

Dear 12:16 a.m. anonymous: the word you're looking for is "cachet" -- not "cache." I bet Sotomayer would know that.

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Nay denature said...

obat kencing nanah paling ampuh pria dan wanita Kami De Nature Indonesia menyediakan obat-obatan herbal dari berbagai macam termasuk salah satunya mengobati kencing nanah ini. Bagi Anda yang mungkin sedang mengalami ini alangkah baiknya kami menyarankan segera saja diobati sejak dini sebelum bakteri neisserra gonorrhea menyebar ke seluruh tubuh. Apakah Anda tidak malu jika hal ini sampai terjadi informasi lebih lanjut silahkan konsultasi dan pemesanan obat hubungi call/ sms

herbaldenature said...

obat kencing nanah paling ampuh pria dan wanita Kami De Nature Indonesia menyediakan obat-obatan herbal dari berbagai macam termasuk salah satunya mengobati kencing nanah ini. Bagi Anda yang mungkin sedang mengalami ini alangkah baiknya kami menyarankan segera saja diobati sejak dini sebelum bakteri neisserra gonorrhea menyebar ke seluruh tubuh. Apakah Anda tidak malu jika hal ini sampai terjadi informasi lebih lanjut silahkan konsultasi dan pemesanan obat hubungi call/ sms

herbal gonore said...

kelamin mengeluarkan nanah dan alat kelamin keluar nanah dan keluar nanah dari kemaluan dan alat kelamin keluar nanah dan kemaluan keluar nanah serta obat kemaluan mengeluarkan nanahobat kemaluan mengeluarkan nanah dan obat alat kelamin keluar nanah dan kemaluan mengeluarkan nanah dan alat kelamin keluar nanah dan obat kencing nanah merupakan solusi pengobatan herbal dari denature indonesia

obat herbal said...

penyerbu kencing nanah jimat penyembuh kencing nanah nanah keluar dari ujung penis

teguh wibowo said...

Obatambeien herbal de nature
Cara mengobati wasir dan ambeien
obat tradisional wasir dan aman
cara alami mengobati wasir ambeien
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Obat kencing nanah atau sipilis
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obat kencing nanah gonore
obat gonorrhea kencing nanah

herbal gonore said...

treatment khusus penyakit wasir cara mengobati wasir mengetahui ciri ciri penyakit wasir obat ambeien herbal ambeclear

Nay Denature said...

treatment khusus penyakit wasir cara mengobati wasir mengetahui ciri ciri penyakit wasir obat ambeien herbal ambeclear

obat herbal said...

penyakit sipilis disebabkan oleh bakteri gejala penyakit sipilis raja singa pencegahan penyakit sifilis raja singa ciri ciri penyakit sipilis raja singa

herbal medicine said...

kemaluan keluar cairan nanah obat penis keluar nanah penyakit kemaluan keluar nanah obat herbal keluar nanah penyebab alat kelamin keluar nanah alat kelamin keluar nanah

wasirdenature said...

cara mengobati kemaluan keluar nanah cara mengobati kemaluan keluar nanah cara mengobati ujung kemaluan keluar nanah ujung kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing ujung kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing penyebab penis keluar nanah penyebab penis keluar nanah obat untuk kemaluan yang keluar nanah dan perih saat kencing penis keluar nanah pusat pengobatan herbal obat kemaluan keluar nanah mengapa kemaluan keluar nanah mengapa kemaluan keluar nanah obat penis keluar nanah obat penis keluar nanah cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan pria cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan pria obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing

lionelmessi10 said...

cara mengobati kemaluan keluar nanah cara mengobati kemaluan keluar nanah cara mengobati ujung kemaluan keluar nanah ujung kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing ujung kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing penyebab penis keluar nanah penyebab penis keluar nanah obat untuk kemaluan yang keluar nanah dan perih saat kencing penis keluar nanah pusat pengobatan herbal obat kemaluan keluar nanah mengapa kemaluan keluar nanah mengapa kemaluan keluar nanah obat penis keluar nanah obat penis keluar nanah cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan pria cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan pria obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan obat cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan cairan nanah keluar dari kemaluan kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing kemaluan keluar nanah di sertai perih saat kencing

mistersipilis said...

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obat herbal said...

Menghilangkan Kutil Pada KelaminJadi Apa Pilihan Pengobatan Yang Baik Untuk Kutil Kelamin Pria? Beberapa metode pengobatan yang dapat dicoba untuk menyembuhkan penyakit ini adalah melalui penggunaan krim dan salep. Selain itu bisa juga dengan resep dokter lain yang tujuanya untuk memusnahkan kutil tersebut. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungblog kami

obat herbal untuk wasir eksternalWasir tidak dapat menyebabkan kanker dubur. Dalam beberapa kasus yang jarang, orang dengan kanker dubur yang paling bertanggung jawab untuk memiliki wasir. Hal ini terjadi karena meningkatnya tekanan pada tumor.untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungweb kami

obat kelamin pria keluar nanahCairan nanah pada pasien gonore tidak hanya muncul saat buang air kecil saja, tetapi juga dapat keluar melalui bintik-bintik merah yang muncul di kulit pasien. Perbedaan yang ketiga terletak pada ruam merah yang biasa muncul pada pasien sipilis. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungweb kami

obat ambeien yang berdarahKesulitan buang air besar karena susah mengeluarkan tinja yang keras disebabkan oleh kurangnya serat dalam tubuh anda. Sehingga orang yang kekurangan serat mudah menderita wasir. Wasir atau ambeien secara umum bisa dibagi dua yaitu wasir internal dan external. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungsite kami

obat kelamin pria keluar nanahDalam beberapa kasus, di tubuh pasien juga ditemukan beberapa bintik-bintik merah bernanah yang muncul di kulit. Selama masa infeksi ini berlangsung, gejala-gejala awal yang telah disebutkan tadi bisa muncul dengan diikuti oleh demam. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungweb kami

Obat Herbal Kutil KemaluanTapi tetap saja pengobatan ini juga tidak dapat menjanjikan kutil tidak akan datang kembali. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungbaca disini

Obat Kutil Di Kemaluan WanitaHal inilah yang menjadi penyebab kenapa akhirnya banyak penderita yang mencoba berbagai solusi pengobatan herbal dan semacamnya. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungklik disin

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