Monday, January 19, 2015

LIBRARIANS #110 "Loom of Fate" Question post

Alternative universes! Jenkins backstory! Banter and zombies!  Questions and comments below. And thanks the HELL out of watching first season of the show.


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Fran said...

Loved the entire first season and really hope there will be more. The payoff of Jenkin's backstory was awesome so I hesitate to ask this as I'm sure there's a payoff in season two, but I'm dying to know; What did Charlene's note say?

Sara said...

I loved this! Best season finale in a while :) Hope you don't mind if i ask both episodes questions here

1) I love the callbacks to a couple of Leverage lines, if that's what they were. The 'improbable' line and 'just one more time'. Also did Joe Loduca reuse one of the Leverage themes in the City of Lights (I think it could have been Nate Comes Clean, but I know it was a Nate/Sophie one) Niiiiice touch.

2) Potential season 2 (and I'm very hopeful) you're bringing Lamia back, right? She's not... really gone? There's so much more to her! And I loved the ridiculous flirtiness between her and Jake!

3) I really appreciate Ezekiel's disgust for the body snatchers. His change from totally willing to sell the human race to alien overlords, to being the only one who fully disapproved of the snatching, basically standing up for people's body autonomy is something that rarely happens in sci-fi/fantasy shows when something like this is mostly played for jokes. Thank you for whoever decided that!

4) The grey in his hair in the au have anything to do with how things probably went bad for him after Eve was killed?

Also, will probably end up rewatching the series in the right order! Here's to season 2!

Tempest said...

No questions right now. Just thought you and your writers would like to know that I spent most of the episode squealing with delight and bouncing on the couch. Thanks for the fun train and here's hoping for many more seasons.

Anonymous said...

I got the distinct feeling when the new Librarians got their own books of challenges or whatever that Eve might disappear as a regular next season. And it seemed obvious that we might not see all three Librarians in every episode. Did anyone else get this?

GadgetDon said...

Loved the finale. Perfect mix of "the story goes on" without "here's a cliffhanger that means the story is incomplete if we don't get picked up"

Mind you, I will be most provoked at the universe if it doesn't get picked up.

Was shocked at Lamia's death. Is she dead dead? On the one hand, she's such a wonderful character I want her back. On the other hand, I like the idea of consequences.

I do hope Dulaque escaped as opposed to being destroyed - he's such a marvelous villain it would be a shame to lose him.

Most Camelot stories I know have Lancelot as a flawed person who really messed up and allowed Morgan Le Fey and Mordred to exercise their evil natures. Is that this universe, and since then, Lancelot completely lost his way? (And if so, is there a road to redemption possible?) Or was Lancelot the villain.

The utter disastrous results in the timelines of Cassie/Jake/Ezekial as Librarian - How much of that was the damage to the Loom of Fate? Was every successful Librarian before Flynn the knower of all things like him or could someone else have succeeded as the Librarian.

Reagan said...

I absolutely adore this show! Is it cancelled, or will there for sure be a season 2? I really really really hope so! Great job on season 1! I will probably die if this series ends! Here's to season 2! :)

bookishmalarkey said...

That finale was so fantastic in so many ways. I always really dig alternate-timeline episodes in genre shows and this one was perfect. Two questions:

1 -- So Librarian!Cassandra and alternate!Eve...they were totally romantically involved, right? This isn't just me reading into it too much, right??

2 -- Dulaque got aged down at the Loom of Fate to how he was at Camelot's height. How come Jenkins wasn't similarly de-aged? Apologies if this got explained somewhere and I just missed it!

Anonymous said...

So, the Library is back, Dulaque really is Lancelot and Jenkins Galahad. Great!

1. Jenkins is the real mastermind here, so does it mean that he has always known that Dulaque wanted to go to the Loom of Fate?
2. The Library is back, but where's Charlene and why isn't Flynn concerned about not seeing her? Or Judson, for that matter?
3. I'm not asking what it was, but will we ever know what Charlene had written on the note?
4. This is more of a statement than a question, but Flynn is really clueless about dates, right? Although a mission sounds like Eve's type of date, so...

Nancy said...

Now that Jake, Cassandra, and Ezekiel have graduated to librarians will they each have there own guardian? I would love to have more amazing characters join the team.

Unknown said...

Loved the finale. So Tesla in one ep, Atomic Robo references in the next! (Working on An Atomic Robo RPG hack for the show feels vindicated now)

So questions:

1st: So was Magician-Cassandra's cloak deliberately styled on Doctor Strange?

2nd: So Eve's now had her 'fate' defied in the main timeline. If/When season 2, Is that something that'll have consequences down the line?

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering about the relationship between alternate universe Cassandra and "her" Eve Baird- the way the actress played it, it seemed to imply they might have been romantically involved. Was that written in, or just where the actress decided to go with it, or what? Is Cassie definitely interested in women?

I have a lot of other thoughts, but I'm having trouble putting words to them because I'm still totally mindblown by how awesome that finale was, so I'll just stick with that one pressing question about Cassie.

Lora said...

I thought Morgan was going to have a big comeback, but I guess that's next season!

I would really like to see the Flynn/Baird thing just slowly vanish. Zero chemistry there. There wasn't any in the premiere when they randomly kissed, there still isn't any now. While Baird may have completely noped out of kissing Stone, there was more chemistry in that kiss and the way he looked at her than anything she's had with Flynn.

I know you guys wanted to "get the tension out of the way" or whatever. But no worries, there really really wasn't any to begin with.

I'm prepared to have a show in which the female lead is not in love with anyone. Please.

How come no one seems the least bit thrown by Jenkins being Galahad? Shouldn't *someone* on the team be geeking out about that?

I'm actually really shocked that the Library is back so quickly. Not sure what this means for a season 2. If the Library is back, then Flynn is back. But the team doesn't need Flynn. And he doesn't need them, which is really what the finale made clear. 1 Flynn == 3 LIT. Because every world where they weren't on a team, they were losing. And every situation was improved by the addition of Flynn.

Sooooo, he just steps out of the way? Takes a vacation?

Anonymous said...

I loved the 3 Junior Librarians deciding to team up for the trip to Lima. Any chance if there's a second season that we'll get to see their first case out of the nest?

Unknown said...

I completely agree that there was something going on between librarian!Cassandra and Alt!Eve. And I have to say I liked it, a lot. Although I did find it a bit weird in episode 6 when Cassandra was Prince Charming and Eve was a Princess, that there was a only a longing sigh from Eve. To me I would prefer a Cassandra/Eve romance on the show, to that of Flynn/Eve. Cassandra and Eve chemistry is off the charts, whereas Flynn and Eve barely fizzle. Which in a show that sparks and pops with quirkiness, forcing the Flynn/Eve pairing hinders it. SIDENOTE: Lesbian's are loyal forever, to a fault, so there's a guaranteed fan base eyeing Librarians from the side going: "Will they? Won't they?" Patiently waiting. Check out Afterellen if you doubt me. :p

alliem said...

This was epic. I spent the whole ep looking around for someone to react with and then remembering I was alone. Grinning from ear to ear, though.

For what it's worth, I've always thought Flynn and Eve had about as much chemistry as can be reasonably expected from people who've met - twice? Three times? But I actually thought it was off the charts in the opening scene of this one (am I the only one who thought Ezekiel's interruption was going to be more along the lines of ". . . can we maybe save the eye sex for later?"). Less so later, but of course, not really Flynn. I don't know, those were acting choices I liked and understood.

(Did think it was a bit sad that poor Eve didn't even get a hug after not-dying. But even she seemed pretty distracted by the Library reappearing)

I also was pretty sure she was involved with both AltJake and AltCassandra in their timelines (and not with AltEzekiel, which - thank you for that. Also for "mathematically im . . . probable" which I had to rewind and rewatch twice)

My main question is I feel like I'm supposed to be getting something about the desk, but I'm not catching it. Does it like Eve now because she bled for the Library? Is it that the Annex was stuck at the last point when it was connected to the Library and just keeps resetting until they're reconnected? Was Jenkins just moving her stuff every night?

Btw I LOVED that the only swordsman who could hold off de-aged Lancelot was present-age John Larroquette in a bow tie. Because of course.

Unknown said...

1.) There was definite talk of splitting up the librarians as they go through their quests.
How many cases do you think they'll go through on their own? Although they all have their strengths, I truly believe that they are at their best when they are working together. What one misses, the others pick up on and they encourage each other to keep going, which was remarked upon repeatedly in 'And the Loom of Fate'.

2.) Cassandra and Baird were together in Cassie's alternate timeline,weren't they?

3.) When will the group stop underestimating Cassie, because most of the time she is the reason the job gets done? Also I love the whole 'mathemagics' she wields.

a.) Since the group seems to be splitting up and Baird is sticking with Flynn, will/when will Cassie, Jake, and Zeke receive their own guardians?
b.) Will Lamia eventually become a guardian for Cassie?

Kris said...

I think the real answer to all these Cassandra questions is that Lindy Booth just has crazy chemistry with everyone. And I would love to see -- or hear, rather -- her voice like three different characters in the same video game or something. She's gotten to show so much range in so many different ways. Cass is easily my favorite new TV character of the season.

I'd also like to put in a word of appreciation for your and John Kim's contribution to the representation of folks who are ethnically Asian but not, to put it clumsily, stereotypically culturally "Oriental," and also not relegated to mere sidekick status. It's one of those things I didn't realize I needed more of from my TV until Amy Berg cast Harry Shum as her All-American Superman analog in Caper. And with Selfie and John Cho-as-romantic-lead not surviving the season, I'm all the more grateful for Ezekiel.

Anyway, Rogers, much thanks to you and everyone else for a killer finale to a wonderful (in the deepest sense of the word) season. I've really come to appreciate your commitment to season finales that can double as series finales. Not just for the insurance of closure Just In Case, but also more generally for the power that a Proper Ending has. To make the "life of mystery, and misery..." speech bookends sing as much as the equivalent speech(es) in Leverage, in less than a fifth of the timespan... just, damn.

I too will probably very soon rewatch the season in the originally intended order. Wishing you all the best for renewal! Fingers crossed for a showdown between our magical redheads somewhere along the line.

Anonymous said...

First off, I want to say what a fantastic job that everyone involved in this show has done. It's been a short (10 episodes!? More please next season!) ride, but a fun one.

I thought I would chime in and say that I think Flynn and Eve are wonderful together. I would never want a romantic relationship to be a main focus of the show, especially at the sacrifice of the characters as individuals, but I think you handled it very well. I saw the spark between Flynn and Eve and the playfulness between them from the beginning.

It's unfortunate that they had very little time together during the season to really develop their relationship further, but the finale gave me hope that if their is a season two we will get to see more of their relationship and the complications that come with the Librarian/Guardian dynamic.

I feel like Flynn and Eve compliment each other well. Like it's been expressed on the show, she grounds him. Their adventure together is just beginning and I am excited to see where it goes from here.

Everything was wrapped in a bow so neatly at the end that I question how you will be able to have the LITs (are they still considered in training?) working together in a believable way next season. The finale proved that Flynn is the true Librarian and the Library has returned. There doesn't seem to be a need for the annex or the LITs to communicate with each other anymore.

EVW said...

1) The line at the end about Du Lac being old and kind of frail -- is that really true? Failing out of an airplane and surviving seems to be the opposite of frail.

Also, non-rejuvenated Jenkins was able to best the rejuvenated Du Lac. That would imply he has not lost any of his physical prowess with age. So, I would guess the same is true of Du Lac?

2) Why wasn't Jenkins/Galahad rejuvenated along with Du Lac?

3) Does Flynn now know who Jenkins is? If so, when did he find out? In this episode, or previously? If not, why the heck doesn't he ask?

Anonymous said...

Great episode! I hope for a swift announcement of a season 2 and look forward to further adventures of the team. I rather like the idea of multiple adventures going on per episode with teams crossing paths. Still not crazy about the thief character but if they can tone the arrogance back a bit I can deal with it. Also, not interested in the whole Cassandra interested in girls vibe. The Charming thing was just odd. Christians Stone character is great, I love how he geeks out to art. Jenkins is the scene stealer of the show, I love the snarky delivery he brings!
I confess I had my doubts when I initially heard of the Librarian coming to the small screen, but overall I have been very pleased and think it's a great fit in the franchise. Thanks for having this blog to answer people's questions, I think it's indicitive of the love for the show that so many come here to discuss and inquire.
(PS - now that the library is back and all can we bring back Cal? 😄)

24jg13 said...

I don't think the team will be split. Seems I remember the Leverage finales implying they would split but they always came back together. I believe the same for the Librarians.

If a second season is ordered, they will be back together. Not sure where Noah Wylie will fit now that Falling Skies is over.

Thank you John and Dean for not leaving us hanging. I have always loved the way you two wrap a season. Impatiently waiting for word on a renewal.

I do have one question, now that we have seen Cassandra use/have magic in Two episodes will we find out she is connected to Morgan le fey.

EVW said...

What led Flynn to suddenly decide the LITs were ready to go on solo missions? They seem to be working together well as a team, but it seems to me that each has holes which the others fill -- unlike Flynn himself.

Or is he simply throwing them into the deep end of the pool?

Thomas said...

I know a second season hasn't been ordered yet so I'm sorry if it's too early to ask about what might happen in it. But is it possible we could see a reappearance of the previous guardians played by Sonya Walger, Gabrielle Anwar and Stana Katic? I think it'd be interesting to see them interact with Baird and compare notes on Flynn. Assuming the actresses are available/willing of course.

EVW said...

I liked Lancelot's comment that some other version of Flynn (i.e., the real one) might be able to hold his own in a sword fight. That makes sense if Flynn was trained by Excalibur. Is that foreshadowing? I hope we will get to see it someday.

Anonymous said...

I took Librarian!Cassandra and alt!Baird's relationship to...well, not really romantically (although I can see how people got that). It seemed Cassie was a bit of a benevolent goddess or something to me, and as such had a connection to everyone, Lamia, Flynn, Baird, the random people bowing to her.

Also, personally, I love Flynn/Baird. They have a real opposites attract thing going and that's my all time favorite relationship, whether it be friendship or romantic. And their chemistry is just fine, in my opinion. The idea of Librarian!Jacob and alt!Baird having a romantic relationship, while semi-interesting, is less so that the Flynn/Baird, in my opinion.

Librarian!Ezekiel having a gray streak in his hair was probably the best thing ever. No idea why I loved it so much, but I literally paused my tv, and frantically pointed it out to my roommate with a big ol' grin on my face.

Also, loved that none of the LITs could save the world without the others. A little sad about the idea that they might start working alone now and then.

Lamia death, both loved and hated it. It fit so well, and at the same time, I kind of want to see more from her. I don't want the Serpent Brotherhood to he the only organization that the Librarians have to repeatedly face, but Lamia and Duloque were both awesome and I don't want that to be the last of them.

EVW said...
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Thomas said...

Hi! I'm the same Thomas who posted earlier. I forgot that Stana's character is dead. And technically, Gabrielle's character wasn't a guardian. But I'd still like to know if it's possible we'll see Nicole and/or Emily again. Sorry for the mistake!

Sean Fagan said...

I don't really have questions here, so just some praise.

First, congratulations on a truly excellent line, delivered supremely well by John Laroquette: "Magic isn't an exact science; if it were, it would be science."

Second, congratulations on a very good ending for the series, that still leaves open a second season without making viewers angry if it doesn't happen.

Lastly: I always forget how fun Noah Wyle is, when given the opportunity.

Madhatter360 said...

Such a great finale! I loved seeing Baird just nope out when Stone kissed her, one of the funniest moments of the season.
A lot of my questions have been asked by other people, but I do still wonder, who's idea was it to cast Jerry O'Connell as young Lancelot? Did that come from the you/the writers, or did Romijn suggest it?

Anonymous said...

Flynn wondering if he'd explode if he touched his other self: glad to see *somebody* still remembers the Blinovitch Limitation Effect.

Sarah said...

You got me alternate timelines? Is it my birthday? :O Freakin loved seeing Librarian versions of all the LITs, and that the stuff they've picked up over the season turns out to be important at the end. I only wish the finale could have been longer, like the opening. It felt like the Camelot stuff was breezed through pretty quickly despite being built up a whole lot more (or maybe that's just my perception because of the rampant fan speculation?), and Lamia's death was totally swept under the rug. I'd hope she survived somehow, but I dunno, once they toss a sheet over you, that seems kinda final. :(

Questions and curiosities!
1. It occurs to me that all the Guardians we've seen in the movies/show have been women. Is that a rule of the Library?

2. How hard (easy?) was it to convince Jerry O'Connell to stab his wife in front of witnesses?

3. Did Charlene's note have anything to do with receipts?

Anonymous said...

When did you decide that young Lancelot needed to be Jerry O'Connell? Everything I've seen on TV with RR has had him do some sort of quick guest shot, so I was wondering if/when he would appear.

gwangung said...

Double agreement with Kris about the non-stereoptypicalness of Ezekiel Jones...but what else would I expect out of the main architect of Jaimie Reyes? An archetype to be sure, but it's a combination that's not often seen...which makes it interesting in and of itself (and don't you DARE tone down his cockiness and arrogance! that's part of the character.....)

Unknown said...

I loved how each of the Librarians-in-training, in a timeline when he or she had achieved the full role, became a different kind of pulp hero archetype - adventurer for Jake, science hero for Ezekiel and magic hero for Cassie.

And blast it - you made the episode in which Lamia died the one in which she was also most sympathetic by showing us what she could have been - I suppose that may be the best way to see out any character.

Also, I noticed that when Du Lac entered the Annex to take over the story, he referred to himself as the "hero". I'm guessing that his claim was the reason for Morgan Le Fey saying that she was more worried about the "hero", because that's how Lancelot sees himself?

Anonymous said...

I loved City of Lights and most of the rest of the season but I was kind of disappointed in this one, to be honest. It felt like the most by-the-book episode we've had all season, although I guess that does fit with the whole Fate theme.

I was especially disappointed that Lamia died like that though, and I really hope she's brought back next season. For one thing, she was one of only two people who aren't white on the show and people of colour get used as canon-fodder on shows way too often. And for another, you had her set up as a fairly complex character with motivations of her own and then just shoved her out the way in a blink-and-you-miss-it scene that none of the other characters really care about.

Even if for some reason you felt there had to be a "blood sacrifice" there was no reason to play the trope so straight as to have the villain sacrifice their loyal second in command. There's a thousand other ways that could have played out.

Reverend Peter Sears said...

Oh my.

My only question is this...
Never mind all of the other ways in which John Laroquette is epically awesome. Is he an actual fencer too? Because I was watching his footwork, and it was right damn on.

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grtsanhdn said...

I honestly don't know what to say. The season finale of the Librarians made me speechless. May it be the first of many from this show. It had everything, comic relief, near-deaths, OMG revelations. Just, everything. Bravissimo, a job well done. Now, without further ado, the inevitable litany of questions. I preemptively apologize for the very long question(s) concerning Alternate Timelines, since they are seriously bugging me to no end.

1.) How much hair gel did it take to get John Kim's hair slicked down like that? Seriously, you could see the light shining off it. And wow, gray haired Ezekiel Jones. Never thought I'd see the day. And on the subject of hair, does Baird's not-in-a-bun hair at the end hold any special significance? Or was it just because?

2.) After Dulaque/Lancelot (I keep thinking of him as Dulaque first, and then remembering "Oh right, he's Lancelot") stabbed Baird, she just randomly rolled down on to the rocks by the riverbed. Did Lancelot kick her or something like that to make her roll? I can't really see somebody who just got stabbed in the chest to randomly roll that far of a distance.
2a.) How did Bathsheba's oil of healing (assuming that's what Flynn used) fix up all of Baird's clothes, blood and all, along with the wound? I've never heard of a healing device that cleaned the clothes as it healed. Even the blood on her fingers is gone after she drinks the oil. Or was it just magic?
2b.) How did stringing Ariadne's Thread through the Loom of Fate help reweave history, since it didn't go anywhere near the place where Dulaque cut it? Or was reweaving history with the Thread all symbolic instead of actual weaving?

3.) So Dulaque and Jenkins are Lancelot and Galahad, father and son. So exactly what sides did Jenkins choose in a very complicated situation, as referenced in “And the Apple of Discord”? And if they really are father and son, then why did Jenkins say they stopped being “whatever they were”? Wouldn’t have been fairly clear-cut what they were?
3a.) So Galahad chose Jenkins as his alias. Did he decide it as his first name or last name, or did he do what Parker did, and have his name be just Jenkins?
3b.) So Dulaque’s entire plan for taking over the Library was to gain access to the Loom of Fate? Presuming that Jenkins knew about this, which apparently he does, seeing as he played the Chessmaster big time, why didn’t he warn anybody?

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Anonymous said...

Oh man. What a great first season. I really hope TNT puts you guys back to work for Season 2!

I was especially delighted to know in a world of magic that Matt Frewer's Dulaque can morph to Jerry O'Connell and back again.

Also, the way that the whole Library-verse full of possibilities was left open for all of the characters at the end of the episode was a wonderful touch.
It will give them lots to catch up on when they have to come back to the Annex to save Jenkins from an experiment gone wacky at the top of Season 2!

But ... Jenkins kind of vanishes from being in the back of the group when then walk into the Library to not being with the group at all when they are on the steps and Flynn runs off to get the elixir to save Eve.

Should we take this as Jenkins stayed behind in the Annex rather than walk into the Library?

Wait, CAN he physically be in the Library or did Judson totally bar him?

Ooo. Totally left us wanting more!

Anonymous said...

I had a great time watching the finale, and warming myself on the sparks of so many fine myths, tales and tropes. Like many of the fans, I had a few more wishes and wants for the next season. Culling my flights of fantasy down to one:

The Library has everything. Somewhere in the Library, Jim Byrnes is tending bar. And playing a little blues on the side.

LettuceC said...

No questions--just wanted to say I love this series. I love all the references to things which I then have to look up. The visual quality of the show really appeals to me. I adore the interior of the library and the small towns in some of the other episodes. Really, really hoping for season two.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, this episode was just and escalating series of squees. I loved every minute. Again apologies if it is rambly or if I'm repeating questions. Feel free to ignore those.


1) It may just be me, but the "Librarian" "Guardian" exchange seems to be getting progressively hotter.
2) Costumes again, wow.
3) This was a very nice clean ending, which I expect from you, but it was sown up particularly well this time.

1) So Stone gets wild magic, Jones gets ghost/zombie, Cassandra gets D&D. What was the rationale behind those decisions? Was it to make them escalatingly apocalyptic or was it related to the characters themselves?
3) How psyched was Matt Frewer that you picked Jerry O'Connell as his younger self?
4) Was rearranging the episodes to get a Kane snogging two-fer a favor for the Kaniac fangirls?
5) So unlike the Leverage-verse, in Librarian World, is dead not necessarily "dead" dead (Supernatural springs to mind)? Like because Dulaque died in the world between worlds is he for realz dead or hypothetically could he come back? Ditto Lamia?
6) The alt universe relationship between Stone and Baird rationally makes sense to me but emotionally befuddles me (not because I'm a Stone/Cassadra shipper [do we have a cutsy mashup name for that yet?], because I'm not). What was the rationale in the Writer's room that led to that decision.

Again, as always, and forever, thank you. Enjoy a nice drink for an outrageously awesome season.

bourgon said...

That. Was. AWESOME!!

Thanks for a bang up season to you and the whole writer's room. That was a blast. My wife loved it, the kiddo loved it - nice family time.

Two questions: first, for the DP - on the continuous spin around, when they're pulling in Stone and Ezekiel from the other timelines… Both the scene, and the music, seemed "Matrix-y", specifically the scene where they Trinity picks up the phone. Deliberate?

Second: yes, neat that Baird can remember it all, due to Jenkins having her play Santa - but why did he do it? The main effect of her being able to remember comes after everything is done - so wouldn't it be to his advantage (and anonymity) to not have shown her? Or was it because she wouldn't have been able to survive crossing all the timelines otherwise?

Oh, and Bonus Props for the Deadites call-out.
Really hoping for Season Two. Great ending either way, but here's hoping!

And since we're all needy folks - when do we get some more Arcanum? :D

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profounddark said...

Excellent show, all around. I'm always impressed with your ability to end a season with an episode that both wraps up the season and (in case you don't get picked up for another) the series all together. I also really liked showing each of the LiTs as a full-fledged Librarian and what their "style" would be.

A few questions that came to mind:

(1) I know that some Arthurian stories suggest that the fall of Camelot is the fault of Lancelot. Earlier in the series, Jenkins has the talk with Dulaque about the past. Was it intended to suggest that in the past, Lancelot opposed Camelot and the reign of kings while Galahad defended it, only to have them reverse their positions in the present?

(2) The way that Dulaque and Jenkins talk about themselves, it seems to suggest that they are not, in fact, human. Was that intentional, or are they simply differentiating between noble knights of Camelot and common folk when they talk about humans needing rulers?

WuseMajor said...

So, I think you guys have doubled down on the whole Camelot thing enough that Jenkins Poncy nightshirt needs to be plot relevant, if you guys get more seasons. Clearly Camelot had more in common with Mount Olympus than it did with a normal kingdom. Lancelot and Galahad wouldn't still be alive if they were entirely human and their conversation during the swordfight (in which John Larroqutte was totally AWESOME) felt like it was pointing that up a bit.

I also feel a bit weird finding out that he's Galahad. I could see Hephestus, Prometheus, Daedelus, Merlin, Frankenstein, ...Tesla. Galahad was unexpected. Makes me wonder when and why he started tinkering with Magic.

Seeing the other versions of the Team was cool. I honestly have to wonder if alternate Baird was Cassandra's lover too.

Is Lamia actually 100% dead? If you wanna wait to confirm it until season two that's ok, but I'd like to know for sure at some point.

I feel like there's a conversation in Cassandra's and Baird's future about magic and the brain grape. With the Library back and magic returning, I think they should try to figure out a safe way to save her life, preferably when nothing is threatening the world's day. Not that she shouldn't get to become a mystic wizard and everything, but she didn't look entirely happy about what she had become and there should be an option for her other than "dead at any moment" and ...Well, ok, becoming Merlin sounds pretty cool, but, from the way she was talking, it sounded like there was a major downside somewhere and Cassandra should get a choice or something.

Sarah said...

@antisocialbutterflie Re: shipping names, I've seen a lot of "Casstone" and "Jassandra," but personally, my vote goes with "Cake." :3

Tom Galloway said...

OK, not directly connected to this ep, but it just occurred to me. Going back to the Apple of Discord, as I recall everyone seemed to remember what had happened when they were under its influence. OK, that force trick discordian Cassie was using was pretty handy in combat related situations. So is there any reason regular Cassie hasn't been using it?

Timothy R. said...

You realize, when Flynn and the LITs go to the Library with Baird to try to save her, Jenkins stays in the Annex... with Lamia's body... and a freaking contraption just built RIGHT THERE that mixes "wishes" (through the magic app) with energy (Tesla's setup) to power a magic book that makes stories come true.

How hard would it be to tell a story where Lamia lives?

Anonymous said...

Loved the finale and the whole run!

Can't really add a question to everything above. But as a queer watcher, I have to ask: is the non-heteronormative thing you mentioned before the implied Eve/Cassie? If so, I'm kind of said that it wasn't shown in the same way that heterosexual pairings: Eve/Flynn, Stone/Mabel, and Stone/Eve all had a kiss and, in both Librarian/Guardian pairings, a statement that there is, in fact, a relationship. Eve/Cassie is left to guessing, and judging frim the comments above, it leaves even the open-minded viewers unsure. Was it the writers' intention, the network's limitation or something else?

Li Ting said...

Loved the finale, a couple of questions :P

1. If we do get a second season, will we find out what Charlene's note says? What exactly happened to Charlene?
2. Any idea when news of a second season will be released?
3. Have you and the writers thought out what the second season is going to be like if it happens, character backstory/development wise and perhaps certain mythologies you would like to explore?
4. How did the finale come about, with all the parallel universes and each of the LITS as a Librarian. Was this something that y'all wanted to explore from the start?
5. Did Jenkins know Dulaque's plan from the start, therefore sending Eve and the LITS to help Santa? Or was that just a coincidence?
6. Will there be new guardians for the LITS, now librarians?

Love the show a lot and desperately hoping for a second season. :)

Unknown said...

@grtsanhdn Well, if you look at the Arthurian Cycle, Jenkins's/Galahad's comment actually makes sense. He was conceived through deception, born out of wedlock, and raised (in most versions) by a nun. By the time he came to Camelot, his father was too busy being the "hero" and committing high treason with the Lancelot wasn't that much of a father to him. If he's had a millennium and more to brood about that, I could see him wondering if they really counted as family (other than by blood). He's pretty raw about it, I think.
Also, Galahad was always a better knight than of course he can out-fight him. :)
Why yes I'm a Galahad fan...and now, even moreso. :)

Unknown said...

A second comment from me I know, but I realised something a few hours after the episode, and had to ask whether my crackpot theory is even at all accurate...

It's been raised before that Flynn as the Librarian - in his scatter-brained but genius way - is a lot like the Doctor.

When Jacob was the Librarian, he reminded of Doc Savage.

When Ezekiel was the Librarian, he reminded me of Doc Brown in Back to the Future; perhaps it was the streak of grey in his hair, and his laboratory headquarters seemed very eighties science fiction.

Then Cassie showed up in a green cloak and hood. I later remembered that Doctor Doom once traded his lifetime's knowledge of science for a lifetime's knowledge of magic, just as Cassie lost her mathematical abilities in exchange for magical powers.

So, does becoming the Librarian mean that a Librarian-in-training ascends to become the equivalent of another fictional universe's most awesome doctor?

Plus, if Cassie is the Librarian-verse's good parallel to Victor Von Doom, that would explain why she was so freakin' dangerous when she got the Apple of Discord and became the worst possible version of herself.

TayaR said...

As a Stone/Baird shipper (there are dozens of us! DOZENS!), I just want to say THANK YOU for that kiss. It was amazing and far more than I ever thought we'd get.

Unknown said...

Loved the finale, between the Egypt, the spin of all of LiTs to see what they are like by themselves and of course the Flynn. Also, Flynn's wardrobe is just so over the top awesome. Couple of questions:

1) Not that I'm terribly expecting an answer on this one but what on earth are Jenkins and Dulaque? Did they start as human and are just different?

2) Are we going to get to see more about Camelot and the Librarians version of that part of history in the hopefully coming seasons?

Dan Da Man said...

Watched it last night! Hopefully we'll see the Librarians (hopefully with more Flynn, since he'll have finally beaten back that nasty alien invasion) again next year!

Also, I'd like to say that I appreciate that you got Quinn Mallory to show up in a timeline-hopping episode. Although I guess the fact he's married to one of the leads helps :)

Some Qs:

1) Was Librarian!Cassandra's second costume based on Danerys from Game of Thrones? Especially given the whole dragon thing...

2) Were the physical parts of "Library" set all set-up the whole time, or did you film everything there early on?

3) How far ahead did you plan- were the artifacts from this season being Chekov's Guns to get the Library back always planned, or did it just end up that way?

4) Obviously you couldn't have done it because Jane Curtin and Bob Newhart are busy/expensive, but what happened to Charlene and Judson in the alternate timelines? And Jenkins, for that matter?

Erin Underwood said...

It's a brilliantly funny show. Noah Wiley is fantastic as is John Larroquette, Rebecca Romijn and the Jr Librarians.

Thank YOU for bringing this show to life.

Sharmaine said...

Thank you so much for a kickass first season and an amazing finale!!! Your use of characters and plot was so enjoyable to watch!!!!

volatile_hearts said...

Loom of Fate was an absolute home-run! It was utterly delightful and amazing every second.

1A) Is there any to bring Lamia back (if there's a second season)? She was such a fun antagonist to go up against. I'll be heartbroken if we never get to see her again!

1B) Or Dulaque? Matt Fewer makes an excellent villain.

2) Did you know from the beginning that all of the cases from the season would culminate in the season finale? or was it more the writers had a perfect coincidence and a sudden burst of brilliance?

3) If this is the last season, you and the writers managed to wrap it up in a satisfying way. But you also managed to leave enough loose threads to pick up if there is a season 2. That seems like a very fine line to walk. How did you all find that balance? Does it get easier or harder depending on the show?

Thanks for the astounding ride this season. Fingers crossed for season 2!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for ending Book 1 without a cliffhanger. I really appreciate closing the book and I'm looking forward to the next one. Such a fantastic job everyone did to tell such great stories.

Also, thanks to everyone who live tweets during the show. Love how even the make up folks get into it! Would love to hear more technical details, like how hard it was to light a scene, or how it took so many takes because of the weather, if that thing that we thought was real was CGI, if that was really so-and-so on the ground, what a trooper!

While we saw the might-have-beens of the Librarians in Training and their worlds, most of my questions are about Jenkins (way to save the day, Hero!).

1. I noticed that Dulaque and Jenkins have different sword fighting methods. Jenkins kept his left hand in his pocket and fought standing straight up. It made him seem more controlled than Dulaque, who fought crouched and with arms outstretched, seeming more wild. How was that style decision made?

2. How much research do you do to incorporate stories and myths into the episodes? I freely admit I had to look up Lancelot and Galahad because I wanted to know what their relationship was after I saw their confrontation. Can you write essays with footnotes and references with all the background checking you all do?

3. Galahad is Lancelot's illegitimate son. Is that going to come up any time?

4. When Galahad/Jenkins found the Holy Grail, did he put it in the Library?

5. I just found out about "Sir Galahad, a Christmas Mystery." Does that have anything to do with Eve Baird's comment about how it was Jenkins who sent them on the Santa mission, not the clippings book and Fate?

6. First we had Judson, then we had Jenkins. Why are both names so similar?

7. How does the dialing globe work? At the end of the episode, Flynn gave it a slight spin instead of adjusting it to where he needed to go. In episode 3, Jenkins gave it a big spin and it ended up pointing to exactly where the team needed to be.

8. I know you can't do anything about it and I do want every last second of the show, but sometimes the cut to commercial is just so jarring. A reason to buy the DVD, I suppose!

9. About renewal: Is there anything we can do to show our support of the show? Does it make a difference for non-Nielsen families to watch in real time?

Thanks again for such a wonderful show and for taking the time to interact with the fans!

Thomas said...

Not really a question, more an observation: Dulaque/Lancelot speaks with a British accent while Jenkins/Galahad speaks with an American accent. I'm not sure if this was intentional but it is a subtle way of showing that one is clinging to his old life in Camelot while the other is leaving that life behind and integrating himself with new surroundings. Nicely done.

Unknown said...

I think this is the first time I was upset that a villain was killed. I was shocked to see Lamia get killed or is she really dead? It was fun to see her and Stone's interactions every time they ran into each other. I have to say I did enjoy this season with the tales and drama and the funny one liners and I'm hoping for a season 2 to see these characters grow more.

John Seavey said...

Loved loved loved the finale and the season and hope it gets renewed! If it does, will we get more backstories of Jenkins/Dulaque? I'd really love to know if Dulaque/Lancelot snapped when Camelot fell, or if he just slowly grew more callous over the years.

Cosmic Siren said...

Thank you so much for this season. I am so grateful that I subscribed to it on Amazon, so I can rewatch it.

I just finished watching the Loom of Fate, and I must thank whatever genius came up with having Jenkins be Galahad. I spent most of the season trying to figure out which Arthurian figure he was. And yet, while I never considered Galahad and never thought John Laroquette as being someone to cast for the role, I actually cheered when that was revealed. It just fit so well. I think I might have actually lost part of my heart to the character when when he confronted Lancelot. After a season of being snarky about the intellects of others, his speech about mankind earning its right to rule themselves was just perfect.

I must admit some chagrin at not getting the glaring hint of Dulaque being Lancelot. While I never cared for the character, I still always saw him as repentant. But that's just me.

I started this post just wanting to praise the twist and turns that were so satisfying, though not easily expected. But I realized I do have a question - did the person who came up with Jenkins/Galahad also propose the idea of Bruce Campbell as Santa?

OldeSaultie said...

Jerry O'Connell from Sliders appearing in an episode where the characters slide between time lines, excellent!

Rhea Lee said...

This was an immensely satisfying season finale. So many yummy things too (parallel versions of the Librarians! genre-hopping!). Thank you so much.

My questions:
(1) out of all the alternative timelines, Cassandra's was the most interesting and the least obvious to me. Could you tell a bit about how she became what she is/was in that timeline?

(2) you made me empathize a lot with Dulaque's character after his conversation about choices with Jenkins in "& the apple of discord": that he has good reasons for what he's doing, that nobody really sees themselves as the bad guy, and generally that his motives were better than those of a one-dimensional "must take over the world!" character. So I was surprised at his very simple-minded answer of what amounted to "life was easier back then" to the question of why turn back time to Camelot. Surely he's smarter than that! Did I miss some hints that would explain his behavior?

Shannon14 said...

My only question after the amazing season that this was and after one of the best season finales I've had the pleasure of watching is when will we find out when (it's when, not if) we're getting a second season?

Anonymous said...

Great Episode!! This episode was a great payoff for an awesome season!!! My favorite part of this whole season was seeing Jenkins' arc unfold. If we get a second season (Which I highly doubt we won't) please tell me there are plans to use Jenkins more and put him in the field! Congrats on an awesome season! You are one the best show runners and writers in the business!

Tom Galloway said...

Oh, and the elephant in the Library; you're in a group that's actively rewriting reality by verbally telling a story, and nobody thought to inject "And Cassandra's brain grape spontaneously started to shrink, and continued to do so until it was all gone in a month with no ill effects to her"?

EVW said...

"nobody thought to inject 'And Cassandra's brain grape spontaneously started to shrink.."

The hardware and software weren't set up for that. The book was powering a magic transportation system, not a magic healing device.

They didn't use it to heal Baird, either.

It would make more sense to ask about Bathsheba's Oil of Healing.

Anonymous said...

So how do Guardians work? Charlene said in the beginning that there is only ever one Guardian in the world. But then Lamia took over right Eve's role after she died in in Cassandra's timeline. So does that mean there's only ever one person with the abilities to be a Guardian or that the Library only allows one Guardian at any given time? If not, are we ever going to see any Guardians in Training?

ZurEnArrhBatgal said...

So as a lifelong fan of the fantasy genre (not to mention a real-life librarian; really enjoy telling patrons that, yes, my job is pretty much what you see on the TV screen -- my thanks for making a fantasy show that is both fun and funny and light, but also, much to my surprise and delight, stuffed to the brim with heart. There is pulp-y fun to be had, here, but it's not simple fluff: I love hearing Flynn proclaim that it's time to try living the life of a Librarian by new rules, or that there's always another way if you look hard enough. I love seeing Jenkins struggle between the temptation to run from the struggle and his desire to help out in it. I love watching our three LiTs (one doomed by their gift, one running from it, one abusing it, as Lamia put it so brilliantly) struggle to accept and use those gifts for something more. I love watching Baird face her own fears and flaws as Guardian. It's a fun show, but it's *about* something. As all good fantasy is. Thanks so much for that.

Also, this lifelong Arthurian nut was positively ELATED at the Camelot mythology which showed up here. If there was any possible way to make me love this show more than I already did, that was it. So, y'know: well done.


1.) DuLaque as Lancelot! Lancelot as the villain! Bitter because of the hand he had in destroying paradise itself!! Twistedly trying to right the wrong he wrought and going about it all the wrong way, and growing darker and more lost in the process! THIS IS AN *AWESOME* IDEA!! (... that's not really a question, is it? Whoops. Let's try again:)

2.) Loved the DuLaque-is-Lancelot, Jenkins-is-Galahad reveal. (Jenkins is my favorite character, so that just put the icing on the cake right there.) Did John Larroquette and Matt Frewer know who their characters were, and their characters' relationship to each other, from the beginning? Or did they film episodes like "Apple of Discord" with no more information than we had?

3.) Our Camelot pals obviously have some level of immortality (they are, like, a millennium old at minimum, so they've got that going for them). But Morgan le Fay was able to choke Jenkins. Are Jenkins and DuLaque like Tolkien elves, where they don't die of old age but they can still be wounded? Or is Morgan just able to hurt Jenkins because she's magical, whereas a normal human might not have the same luck?

4.) I loved the touch of DuLaque holding onto a British accent while Jenkins speaks with an American accent. My initial assumption was that it was simply because Jenkins seems so bent on hiding who, and what, he is (he did originally go to the Annex to, basically, hide, although I love that push-and-pull he has of wanting to see more, of _wanting_ to get out and see and do and _help_, but having to struggle with his own doubts/fears/disappointments in order to do so. I think we can all relate to that). However, after thinking about the conversation they had during that riverside sword duel -- which is, for the record, like my favorite thing ever -- it seems to me more likely that Jenkins has accepted that the world has moved on in a way that DuLaque can't or won't accept. One has moved on from clinging to the past, one has not; hence, the accents. Yes?

5.) Now that we know WHO Jenkins is, I'm terribly curious to know WHY he is so determined to hide who he is (and what he knows) from the rest of the Library gang. Is it simply a sensitive topic that he doesn't feel like getting into? (Jenkins is not the type to Share Feelings if he can avoid it, after all.) Or is there more to it than that?

6.) "Don't fear the villain. Fear the hero." So says Morgan le Fay. Will that come into play in future seasons? Or was it foreshadowing for this season's finale, and I missed the tie-in because I am a blockhead?

7.) Might we see more Arthurian characters as the seasons go on? Because, erm, I would be on board with that.

Princess Cupcake said...

Amazing finale! One question, a few comments:

1. We saw young Lancelot - played by Rebecca's hubby, right? right? Amazing how the chubby kid from Stand By Me wound up with one of the most gorgeous women in the world. That's karma! Why didn't we see young Galahad? Will we ever? Or an episode looking back at what went down in Camelot and how it further relates to the current time?

2. We've been referring to her as "Khaleesi Cassandra".

3. Baird's response to getting snogged by Jake was priceless: NO NO NO NO NO (me too, eve. me too) But I'd still love to hear the story of how that even HAPPENED.

I'd love to hear more about how the writers are experimenting with actor/character chemistry, romantic and non-romantic.

Unknown said...

Were there auditions for Young Dulaque or did Jerry O'Connell just volunteer to be the one to stab his wife??

Fyre said...

Fantastic finale! It was great to see all the alt universes with different Librarians, especially mad scientist/tech tycoon Ezekiel. Questions:

1. Is it safe to assume that in each alt universe, Flynn and the other two LITs didn't go in for the interviews? What would have happened if all 4 of them had shown up at the Library 10 years ago?

2.Do you see the alt Librarians as a prediction of what the mainstream LITs will become now that they are full Librarians, or are the alt versions fundamentally different from their mainstream counterparts?

3. Why didn't Cass and the others leave for Peru through the magical annex door?

4. Can Lamia still be alive? Please, please, pretty please?

Anonymous said...

1. I suspect I know the answer that I will get but are we suppose to intuit any particular kind of relationship between Eve and Cassie in the third timeline? Lindy Booth delivered that line so perfectly that it conveyed whatever their relationship was, it was very meaningful without spelling out an exact meaning.

2. Stone's outfit when he was The Librarian immediately called to mind Nathan Drake and Rick O'Connell (from The Mummy). Intentional? Or is this just indicative that their style is part of a larger tradition of visual shorthand for "adventurer"?

3. Ezekiel's white hair: a reference to how he's the "Rogue" of the group? Or perhaps a sign that he got a little too into Bonnie Raitt's music after Eve died? Or perhaps a sign that I'm overthinking this. Sometimes a lock of hair is just a lock of hair.

Kevin said...

As young Lancelot attacked Flynn, Peggy yelled out, "and THAT'S for kissing my wife!"

Superb, satisfying episode. You make final episodes that work as both "possible show ender" and "tantalizing opener to the next season" better than anyone else I know of.

- Kevin

Jado said...

If Dulac is Lancelot, and Jenkins is Galahad, who did Judson used to be?

Kchnwtch said...

I was hoping you'd keep true to your view on cliffhangers when the next season is in the balance. Thanks for giving us a great ride, and for not leaving us worrying, but instead excited for more! Looking forward to oh, 50 more years and at least 13 new librarians...

Anonymous said...

Hi- Thank you for this foruum.
1) So many people seem to feel that each of the LITs' turns as Librarian showed that they "need" Flynn & he is the true Librarian. But I have a different "take." I kept thinking "hey, Flynn lost the Library & he never saw the threat." I felt that the stories showed they all worked well alone, but they also - Flynn included- worked BETTER togerher. And Baird saying they'd be fine alone - she'd seen it- seemed to support that. Can you comment?
2) Thanks for showing a good Kane fight scene! But, it did highlight how awkward Baird's fight was right before it. I know Rebecca Romijn has a fight double that she has worked with for a while (I went to NYCC
just for your panel), & I appreciate her loyalty. But are there any plans to either have her get a new fight double, or get the current one better training? It is really very distracting, and it would be so much better for Rebecca if there was less to criticize in the fights.
3) Realistically, isn't Eve supposed to be the Guardian for the LITs, not for Flynn? I feel like she is not supposed to be running around with Flynn because her "job" is watching the others.

Love the series, loved City of Lights & Loom of Fate. I truly hope season 2 is announced soon. After years of resisting, I even joined Twitter for the finale, just in case TNT really pays attention to that stuff. Thank you very much for another great show

Anonymous said...

1) The show made it clear that alternate-timeline Eve died the day Dulaque tried to take the Library. In each of those universes, did Dulaque's takeover attempt occur at the same time? I.E., only a few months ago? Some of the dialogue made it sound like she'd been dead much longer, so I wanted clarification.

2) Alt!Cassie says "when my brain tumor grew, I used magic to heal myself". I think the use of the word GREW is important and easily missed. So I'm worried because:
Ezekiel had to deal with The House of Refuge gone awry, Cassie dealt with dragons, and Stone had the Quest for the Spear adventure. Since all of those things also happened in the 'correct' timeline, is it possible that some things glimpsed in the alt!worlds may eventually to pass, such as Cassandra's brain grape GROWING?

Zoe said...

You mentioned in the commentary for The Rashomon Job that you had to wait till season 3 to do an episode where you had different versions of the characters so that the audience had had time to get to know them. I know that the circumstances are different, but what convinced you that we were ready for alternate versions of the characters after just ten episodes?

Anonymous said...

I watch Person of Interest and routinely say, "Someone watches Leverage!" But now... Decima!! You guys are some great cross-polinators. Makes for two good shows.

amarillion said...

The “kids/juniors” going off to have adventures together, leaving Baird and Flynn to go run around together definitely feels similar in vibe to Leverage. Actually the ending of Loom of Fate finale felt very similar in vibe to the finale ep of Leverage. Also damn, but you know how to deliver that emotionally satisfying kick in the guts, while still providing a fairly upbeat, but not too cliched and trite happy ending. Seeing the Lit’s as their fully realised Librarian selves, their maturity, commitment and competence was just awesome!! Then seeing the 3 Lit's walk off together to start out an adventure by themselves, while the two "parents" went off together. Kinda made me ridiculously happy.

Also 3rd ing thanks for Ezekiel not being a stereotypical Hollywood Asian… Tho he might be stereotypical 20 something Melbournian.

2nd ing that compared to Stone/Kane’s fight scene’s Baird still seems kinda …clumsy and off balance.

1. Jacob’s AU seemed the most together. Sure wars were breaking out, but he’s managed to avoid the out and out cataclysmic events of Deadites, and Dragons, even though Ezekiel and Cassandra seemd to wield more “power” in different ways, to Stone. Or did Stone succeed because he kept with the more traditional Librarian format, or just being older and more experienced in general he had a better handle on everything?
2. Cassandra and Eve? So we have two potentially bi characters and Eve has a thing for falling for 3 out of 4 of her Librarians? Go girl!! …Also that so would not have been my response to being kissed by Stone. Poly bomb, just saying. She could have Flynn and Stone … and Cassie for that matter. };D (Yes, I’m bad)
3. I know probably no answers, but should S2 get the go ahead, will we see any repercussions or after effects from the threads of Fate being damaged? Or see any more echoes’ of the Librarians’ alter/ultimate selves coming through.
4. @Neil Jasper – Actually Cassandra’s cloak was Red, which is much more Dr Strange than Doom, but similar vibe, Man of Science, turns to Magic. However I don’t think Doom traded science for magic, so much as he’s always wielded both magic and science with terrifying ease.

Thea said...

Wrapped up Season One with a pretty neat red bow! Hoping to hear renewal news soon~

1. Okay, so that was what you meant when you said I'd be upset with the "Come back alive, Librarian" recurring line. Even though she's essential to all the versions of the Librarian in the timelines, Eve was destined not to make it. The ten years with Jake, being a foster mom of sorts to her mischievous teenage ward Ezekiel, the obviously not platonic relationship with Khaleesi-like Cassandra, even the Flynn who stayed a professor of way too many studies ended up wanting to have had chosen that life with her. Good thing the Oil of Bathsheba worked despite her accepting that fate. I CRIED, REALLY BAD.
2. I cannot express how awesome Eve NOPE-ing out of Jake's kiss went. Pretty accurate reaction by Eve, too.
3. In Jake's alternate universe, did Nicole Noone died or resigned when the previous Librarian faked his death?
4. It was completely surreal seeing Rebecca's husband as young Dulaque and equally heartbreaking when he didn't hesitate to stab her, straight through the heart OUCH Did Jerry O'Connell have a hard time shooting that?
5. Is Eve meant to still be the Guardian for Cassandra, Ezekiel and Jacob? Now that Flynn's back, and the Library's back, all of them combined will be quite a handful. Can we expect the Library sending out more white envelopes or do we stick by "There's only one ever Guardian in the whole world and the Library thinks it should be you, Eve Baird."?
6. Please tell me Lamia dying was undone when they re-weaved the Loom. I want her to come back, she's interesting with her sincere (yet quite misguided) penchant for magic.
7. If Eve remembers everything, she's turning out to be some sort of superhuman. Wow. Well, she's special in her own way because she's the Guardian. I'm just excited to what other "weird stuff" she'll encounter and snark over (with Flynn or with the trio or with Jenkins or all five of them) - she's definitely staying, first, the signed NATO transfer papers plus the Library stopped harping her with the desk reset, finally. She should get used to less flashing of the NATO badge, more of the "We're the Librarians" intro. All good, great even. As one of my kind friends pointed out, it's the darkest timeline without her.

amarillion said...

Okay, just noticed a weee bit of a worrying trend, going back over some screencaps.

Mabel kissed Jake, Died.
Baird kissed Jake, died. Ok then came back again, but this Baird also wasn't that Jake's Baird and is still totally dead.
Lamia, totally would have kissed Jake, also dead.

Is there a trend here we should worry about?

beloved07 said...

Loving this series! I did have a few comments/questions:

1) First off, I want to say that I love Zeke. I love his mischievousness and his huge smile and his abrupt honesty and his snarky tactlessness, and just, ugh. I love him.

2) I read somewhere that the actor who played Parker in Leverage got pick-pocketing lessons from a pro. Did John Kim get such lessons, too?

3) Does Zeke grift? I mean, we've seen him pull some hacking and some pick-pocketing (which was awesome! please, please, more?), and I would love to see some confidence tricks thrown in the mix. Please?

4) I love how Zeke was the one who found the body-snatching most appalling... and then his universe was the one with the body snatchers. That must have been brutal for him. Speaking of which...

5) Alt!Zeke made me so sad. I mean, I get why he was the way he was, and I liked that he was a fighter until the end, but man, the years as the Librarian, fighting a hopeless and horrifying battle did a number of his joie de vivre.

6) If Zeke is already the worst version of himself, does that mean he's not at risk of becoming worse? If even at his worst, he doesn't want to hurt people, could he ironically act as a safeguard when the team gets mired in moral grey areas?

Or alternately, is it just a sign that he hasn't been hurt like the others have? It seems like part of what drove the other team members to evil under the influence of the apple was that they had felt hurt by others in their pasts--Flynn felt unappreciated, Eve felt disrespected, Jacob felt insulted, Cassandra felt confined... But since Ezekiel is the youngest of the bunch by a wide margin, maybe he's just not as jaded yet?

7) Is alt!Zeke a lot older than Zeke? Because John Kim was a teenager when this was filmed, so I assumed Zeke was, too, but alt!Zeke talks about having been guided by Eve since he was a teenager, as if that were a long time ago... Unless he meant early-teen years?

Unknown said...

AltCassandra was going to escape the unraveling of history by traveling to another realm. Is it possible that she, and the other Librarians, did this, and survived the return to normal history?

Unknown said...

The clipping book sent them to specific places to get exactly what they needed to fix the Loom of Fate. So why did it send them to the Haunted House? It was implied that the house hitched a ride home with them, after all...

Unknown said...

@Mike Babish - The clipping book didn't send them to the house. They were securing an unanchored leyline when they ran into the house.

Alia said...

Since we have Baird serving as Guardian for all four Librarians, is there a possibility for a conflict-of-interest? Like, would she ever have to choose to save one Librarian of the other(s)? What would be going through her mind then?

Unknown said...

Is this all dead? He hasn't responded to questions in over two weeks. Is he simply tied up doing something?

JulieG said...

Please, please, please, PLEASE tell me that Charlene is Guinevere! I'm having trouble figuring out who Judson might be, but I was never an Authurian authority. (Say that 5 times fast!)

Thanks for a fantastic first season, and looking forward to many more!

Unknown said...

Judson is Yahuda, the Scholar, and the first librarian.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
amy said...

Who came up with the sign in Librarian!Ezekiel's office "Don't be a Deadite!, use the Buddy System" That was pure genius.

Unknown said...

Okay, that was incredible.

So, we know what's going on with Jenkins (have done since the Rule of Three, but it's nice to have it confirmed). But why does he use the name "Jenkins" when DuLac is happy to keep using "DuLac"? Is Jenkins that big of an Atomic Robo fan?

Also, how much do we have to pay you and Brian to make Atomic Robo a Librarian?

Anonymous said...

Is the government ever going to take notice of all the weird happenings and the 'librarians' that conveniently show up every time? For that matter, since Jones is Australian, doesn't he need a visa or something to be working in the United States?

alliem said...

Adding on to my comment above because I cannot BELIEVE it took me this long to think of this - but is Ezekiel's horror at the idea of stealing other people's bodies an incidence of timeline bleed? Since in another life he'd have gotten stuck hopelessly surrounded by zombies inhabited by ghosts?

(Now that I think of it, Cassandra also had some indications of being magic in both, and Jacob - well, is basically one step from art geek Rambo at all times anyway)

Shlomo said...

Thinking about Jenkins' epic, eloquent elucidation about choices,change,and blood in the Apple of Dischord, but from what I'm reading (not that much yet, but getting there) Arthurian storytellers tell about Galahad as if he were pretty much a straight arrow(sorry)after he gets begotten. Will we get to hear more in season 2 about the choices he made, or should I just go read Charles Williams' poetry and be content?

Cristina said...

Ok first things first. Thank you, for everything this season has been, for doing a show that is basically a geek fest every episode, whether it's Tesla or Game of Thrones (because Cassandra is like the Daenerys of her world and we both know that) and most of all for bringing back movies that I loved when I was a kid and turning the whole thing into a nostalgia fest from time to time (but in a really good way).
Questions (ish)...
1. Was there a version of the librarians (including Flynn) in the other timelines? Not the obvious ones, but you know, a Zombie Flynn running around somewhere, an Ezekiel who sold the human race to dragons because in lack of aliens he thought they would do?
2. Loved alt! Cassandra making googly eyes at both Flynn and Eve (because she did and we all know it).
3. What exactly happened to alt!Cassandra when she used magic on her? She got rid of the tumor, obviously, but it seemed to me that she was just doing math but she stopped visualizing the whole thing in her brain...
4. Do things from the alternate timelines have a chance of happening in ours (like besides Baird dying, do we have the chance of dunno, seeing Eve/Jake together, or you know maybe Cassandra trained by Morgan because that part was so awesome)
Thank you again for everything and I really hope you will get a second season, because you SO deserve it!

Rachel said...

Wonderful season, awesome finale! Questions/ramblings:

1. I keep coming back to the fact that Lamia's blood opened the door to the Loom of Fate, while Flynn used Eve's blood to bring back the library. And Lamia was a guardian, or had the potential to be one... So do guardians have magic blood? Or was it the sacrifice, more than the blood itself? (Lamia didn't sacrifice herself, though, she was murdered! Justice for Lamia!)

2. And what's up with the desk finally accepting Baird? Is that because the Library came back, or because she sacrificed herself, or some internal/emotional change in herself, or some levelling-up in her guardian abilities, or what?

3. You implied that the Guardian is more important than the Librarian/s. So is the Guardian's role more about the Library, then, than about the Librarian? Librarians come and go, after all, and it's apparently a much more arbitrary designation... Is Baird really the Library's guardian? (And since it was lost, her tie to the Library was severed and therefore she couldn't influence the desk properly? You keep dropping hints about the desk, I feel like I'm missing something and it's driving me nuts!)

4. Wait, was Lamia officially the Guardian after Baird died? Like did she get the white envelope and all? How was she chosen if the Library was already lost in the timeline? Does Lamia being Guardian in one timeline mean she is a potential Guardian in all timelines?

5. #bringbackLamia, just saying.

6. Is Baird destined to hook up with any and all appropriately-aged Librarians? I'm okay with that, for the record.

7. Eve Baird is one of my favourite characters of the past few years. She's completely brilliant. So let us speak no more of this 'destined to die' business. That's all taken care of now, right? Right?

SingingTheThunder said...

So Ezekiel as Librarian had a streak of white in his hair. It's probably coincidence but in a series of books by Tad Williams, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, the protagonist gets a streak like that from dragon's blood. Things going slightly different from the canon timeline with the dragons? Or is there some particular reason?

Alicia H. said...

I watched this by myself the first go-round because the hubs was sick - which sucked because I couldn't squeal with delight for fear of waking the Sick Man. I did watch it again with him later, so I could pay attention to little details that eluded me the first time (because: trying to squelch the squealing). I think everyone else has pretty much covered the other questions I had . . . but one. During the sword fight(someone else on here said this already, but that really was, like, the most awesome thing ever!) I noticed Jenkins had his left hand in his pocket. I just figured, Meh, he's freakin' Galahad, so he could beat the Big Bad with one hand. But, then I noticed when Jenkins, Carson and a dying Baird are back at the Annex, he still keeps his hand in his pocket while he ushers them through the door into the newly found Library (Yay!). I say all this to ask 1). Was there something magical in his pocket that was helping out the situation? Perhaps I am seeing magic in every corner now - scary thought OR 2). Did Larroquette cut the shit out of his hand and have to hide it someway? I know that scenes aren't filmed in order, but that stuck out with me for some reason. Thank you for this fantastic show!

kultiras said...

I loved this season so much, and I still have the episodes on my DVR, taking up space and contributing to my weekly, "how is there only 9% free?!?!" panic. (Mind you, I have three episodes of Leverage on there still, despite having the DVDs…)


Assuming there's a season 2 (because I really need there to be a season 2), will Baird's relationships with the LITs be impacted by her interactions with the alternate timeline versions of the LITs? Because I imagine that knowing what each is capable of would definitely change her perception of what each of them are capable of.

SD said...

I'm aware that I'm completely stupid (and super late), but Baird's birthday sounded like it could have been on 25 December rather than 24 December. When's her birthday?

shibboleth said...

Wait, so how many people/governments/organizations are aware of the Library/magic? It seems that the British monarchy at the very least known about King Arthur and Excalibur. And then the CEO of Golden Axe actually not only knew about the Librarian, actually kept on Carsen's activity. And she's the latest in a 3,000 year chain of people who sacrifice victims to the Labyrinth. And with the hundreds of people called to interview for the position of Librarian, how has the existence of magic not been revealed already?

Kaitlin said...

Not so much a question as a comment regarding possible Season 2: I know you have taken to calling them "Jr. LITs", but can we please call them "YALits"? I can't resist a pun.

Neil Willcox said...

Kris Smith - John Rogers is a busy man.

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AlexB said...

Finally saw it. Questions and observations follow:

1) Flynn says he's the record holder for number of degrees. Does that mean that if he hadn't become the librarian then after being given a premature on the Egyptology degree he would have gone elsewhere and gained more? Emily had more degrees than he did.

2) With the hints that there is someone not entirely heterosexual, and the possible something going on between alt!Eve and Librarian!Cassandra, I have to say if it is Cassandra I'll be mildly disappointed. I've generally come to want it to be male characters purely because it's comparatively rare. I don't have a problem with lesbian/bi women and am perfectly happy to go with it, it just seems the road more travelled. That said, I can't really see it for any of the guys, so it's probably for the best.

3) Your response to a previous question about Lancelot and Galahad being father and son was that it was complicated. Is that going to be explored in a future season (assuming there is one)? Would that be poncy nightshirt territory?

4) Now it's back, is the Library still tethered to the NY Metropolitan Library, or just to the Annexe?

5) Charlene, Flynn and Library security seemed to be in the employ of the NY Metropolitan Library (Charlene seemed to spend more time at a desk outside the Library than inside it, the queue when interviewing librarians, generally accessing the Library from the library, etc).

So how much paperwork is Charlene having to deal with to cover a months-long unexplained absence? What about the security guards NOT on duty when the Serpent Brotherhood broke in? Were they suddenly made redundant? Is there something in their contracts to cover the Library disappearing into the Void?

6) Is Judson gone gone? In the first episode he said his time was over and faded out, only to appear again to send Baird after Flynn. We get mention at the end that Charlene is probably alive, but no clue as to whether Judson was just trolling Flynn or if he was being serious.

7) I love how in the alternate universes Flynn starts out looking nothing like the Flynn we know, but as he hops from one to another and comes to accept magic he looks more and more like the Flynn of the main timeline. Was that done on purpose, or was it just his clothes and hair getting mussed up the more action he saw?

Unknown said...

Having been wandering through one of the Smithsonian museums , I happened upon the bust of Spencer Fullerton Baird. By any chance is he the namesake or ancestor for our own Col. Baird?

Anonymous said...

I was rewatching the pilot episodes and just realized something. Flynn chose an random door from the corridor of doors and that just happened to run into Jenkins and the Annex. What would have happened if another door was chosen. Are there multiple Annexes, each with its own caretaker, or was it just fate that the door that would lead to the Annex was chosen?

Anonymous said...

Odic Force in the Clevenger Field? Atomic Robo reference?

Scavenger said...

Just saw the renewal announcement. So Woo!

I have to say I liked a lot of the season and the characters, but Ezekiel leaves me cold, and finally realized why: He's Hardison's Iceman persona made real.

"What kind of thief calls himself a thief?" and all of that.

Leverage trained (me) to see thieves as subtle. He's just "Hey, I'm a great thief! Woo woo woo!" just kind of want Sterling to show up, roll his eyes, and arrest him.

Scavenger said...

I was gonna answer the repeated question of "why Jenkins didn't get rejuvenated, too?" with because Rebecca Romijin only has one husband....but then it occurred to me that you could have cast John Stamos there, with fun all around :D
(not knowing anything about their post-marital relationship)

impi said...

Congratulations on the renewal for season two! Any particular reason why why the seasons are only ten episodes each? I'd love to see more of them.

Jessica said...

Congratulations on getting renewed for another season! I just wish it was longer than 10 episodes.

Great season finale; I loved the alt Librarians; especially magic Cassandra.

Any chance of bringing back Morgan in season 2?

Is Jenkins sticking around, now that they have the Library back, or is he remaining in the annex?

Please tell me Lamia isn't really dead; I'll miss her scenes with Stone.

grtsanhdn said...

1.) In Alt!Cassandra's world, why was Flynn tied to the chair while Baird wasn't?

2.) What exactly happened to the Library and Dulaque in the other timelines? Alt!Stone and Alt!Cassandra's timelines seem to have most technology disabled from the release of magic, while Alt!Ezekiel is based in a laboratory full of computers and technology.
2a.) Couldn't alt!Ezekiel have just invested in some heavy duty bank-vault-style doors to keep the ghosts out?
2b.) How on earth did a teenaged Ezekiel Jones travel all the way from Australia to go to an interview at the Library in New York?

3.) Where did Jenkins go in all of the alternate timelines?

4.) When alt!Cassandra did the spell to take everyone to Baird's timeline, how come they didn't emerge at the moment they left, with all the LITs and Jenkins present at the Annex?

5.) How long ago did Baird die in all of the alternate timelines?

Anonymous said...

Where does the money to pay for the Library's expenses (salaries, plane tickets prior to the Back Door, miscellaneous stuff) come from anyway? Does the Library benefit from random patents gained from encounters with preternatural beings (like Men in Black) or is Charlene very good with the stock market?

Olivia said...

I cannot tell you have much my family and I enjoyed 'The Librarians'. We are also huge fans of 'Leverage' and 'The Librarian' movies. We're so happy to see Dean Devlin and your work again on tv again.

I know with 'Leverage' you remarked that the whole show or the over arching theme was about the redemption of Nathan Ford. I was wondering if you were going to have a similar over arching theme for the 'Librarians'?

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Fangirlishness said...

First of all, thanks for making such an awesome show! Congratulations on season 2.


It's funny how differently people see the romantic tensions on the show. I'm firmly in the Flynn/Eve corner. I think their reunion in Loom of Fate was one of the sexiest things ever.

Eve Baird is an amazing character, and I love how the relationship between her and Flynn is so grown-up. You called their argument in Apple of Discord "trouble", but honestly, it's the best portrayal of a relationship I've seen in a while. They are equals and they communicate well. Let's keep them that way, please.

The whole last episode was great - with all the strands from the previous eps coming together like that. Really cool writing.

I agree with a previous commenter that you could have made Cassandra/Eve more obvious. Less subtext, more text.


1) Can you let us know how many s2 episodes Noah Wyle will be in?

2) Did Noah Wyle do any of the audio commentaries on s1? From what I've seen, he was never mentioned. (I want the DVDs *now*.)

3) I get that the desk reset because it thought Eve didn't exist, and I liked that foreshadowing, even though I didn't get it until after the fact. But why did it ignore her? Is the desk in some weird fate-driven state between universes? The whole Annex exists across multiple universes, maybe?

Here's hoping you'll someday get around to answering these questions. Good luck with your current project(s)!

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