Biggest question: how did you arrive upon Goran Visnjic to play Damien Moreau? I think he was the perfect choice, and said so to a friend as soon as I heard about the character at the screening in July.
I also appreciate your letting him use his full-on accent. Any anecdotes to share?
Okay my question is what made you decide to do a huge Eliot story at the season 3 finale? Are you trying to get fans not to like Eliot, or understand him better?
You're funny. Good thing about the holidays - I'm already home so I get to watch East Coast time AND with my Dad (big fan) and not West Coast time! YES!!
Especially for the 4th season... but mostly for tonight: is there any chance of a live stream online...SOMEHOW.... fans here in Germany,etc don't mind staying up for the craziness :D It would be great to have the chance to chat w/ all the Grifters, Masterminds, Hackers, Thieves and Hitters on espacially Twitter while the finale is airing! *pretty please with sacrificial --insert what you would like here-- on top*
Only a hour left to end the torment and we find out who the finale/cliffhanger victim will be this season (assuming its not Nate again) but Sophie or Eliot from the hints... And will we ever find out why Eliot has such a soft spot for the kids?
Ok...so am I getting a Real Genius vibe in the scientists and battery because there's a character named Atherton, or is there a character named Atherton because there's a Real Genius vibe?
Eliot is [was] a bad guy; we just don't know how bad. Love the moment between Eliot and Parker - "Don't ask me that Parker, cause if you ask me, I'm gonna tell you." She nods slightly with what looked like a tear - telling me Parker knows first hand what Eliot is hiding.
Was there any in-story reason for the way The Italian was tied to the chair? As some one far too interested in these things, it seems odd to tape someone to a chair and not gag them the same way.
Video Beagle - I had the same thought for a moment . . . but I went with awesomely ridiculous. When the show takes liberties with style, I'm all for it.
Although he totally stole that line from some movie with Tom Selleck and Alan Rickman.
Did you film portions of "The San Lorenzo Job" back at the Governor again? I saw the signs in "The Big Bang Job", but rooms like Vittorri's campaign HQ and the President's office look like rooms that we used at ConCon. Just wondering...
Any reason you didn't go with the standard latin sounding country "Val Verde" instead of San Lorenzo? I'd imagine it's licensing or something similar, I was just curious.
Elliot seemed sorta left out of this one. I mean he was there, but he didn't do much....especially considering he wanted revenge on Moreau at the end of BBJ.
Did I miss it or did we not get Sophie's real name?
Nice to see Eliot's smile back at the very end. It was predictable that he had been one of Moreau's guys - you have been making it clear all season that Eliot knew Moreau and how he worked.
Just how much of Moreau's fortune is Parker walking away with?
Interesting commentary on the American political system, when even master thieves and con artists finds politicians to be beneath them.
Line of the season - "24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority."
Goran Visnijc was a wonderful choice to play Moreau. Elisabetta Canalis was a miss - she couldn't hold her own with Hutton. Allowing her to work in Italian for the finale was an improvement over her tortured, wooden English.
Overall, well done. And thank you. Enjoy the holidays.
No real questions, I'm too excited from all the epicness you've blessed us with in the finale. Thank you so much for one wicked finale! It was a nice twist having Eliot be the one in league with the bad guys as opposed to Sophie; was it just so you could have him do that AMAZING battle in the warehouse? :) I'm okay with it as so.
The way the crew wrapped up every episode this season in the finale was great as well as the openned ending for the start of season 4 which will be very interesting to say the least! A fabulous job by everyone, this is certainly the finale where you can sit back and say - "Yes, we did rock it; hardcore!" :)
I need to listen to it again, but the music toward the end of The San Lorenzo Job, when they were putting their plan into motion, was it just me, or did it sound kind of A-Team-y?
Also, since Batman doesn't like or use guns, does that make Eliot more of a Deathstroke, Taskmaster, or Weapon X?
Y'know, I always felt that Eliot was the one character I never really understood. I could never figure out why he's with this crew... why he's so invested in helping them, even when he so clearly is exasperated by them half the time.
Now, I think I get him a bit better. I think I know him as well as I'm going to now.
Christian Kane acted the hell out of The Big Bang Job. And Aldis Hodge upped his game right along with him in his outrage at Eliot's secrets.
I'm guessing Nate knows what Eliot had to do to get him and the Italian out of that warehouse, and I really hope he never tells the others.
WOW! WOW! WOW! loved it all-especially the "elegant fight scene" with Eliot. Christian knocked it out of the park with this one....it was a thing of beauty.
Dude. Christian Kane was amazing. I actually said outloud "F*CK ME" when he said "tell him Eliot Spencer's here." Holy crud.
That being said, Parker saying pretzels does not equal how long you've been telling us to "wait until the finale" - we don't even get a kiss? Seriously?! Sigh.
I honestly don't know what to ask at this point, since my mind was so blown by the two episodes tonight. It's true, this was the best Eliot fight scene yet (IMO anyway). Christian Kane has always been a great actor, but he outdid himself in that first episode. As for episode two, it was good too, and the end...well I actually didn't see that coming.
I agree, how can you top this?! But I'm sure you'll do your damndest to try in season 4. And I'm sure you will find a way, too.
Major kudos to the whole Leverage team tonight. Can't wait til next summer!!
Okay,it's Official...Eliot has super powers ,right?If not,care to explain how Eliot slowed the bullets down and kept them from hitting him,but killing the thugs?On that note...HOW COULD YOU MAKE ELIOT KILL SOMEONE?!!Yes,we knew he had done bad things before joining the Team.But he was supposed to have changed to non-leathal force right?What is he supposed to have done for Moreau that was so bad?He wouldn't let Parker ask.Loved the BBJ.And I deffinetly agree with the comments on here.We need Eliot in a tank top more or better shirtless. The end of San Lorenzo was shocking to say the least.Sophie and Nate SLEPT TOGETHER?!Loved how they got Moreau taken down also.
Are you kidding me! What about parker and hardison relationship. That's all you give us is that pretzels line. Yes I did soak it up but hey still wanted more. Why was that all you gave us? It's okay you can continue to drag me by my feet from a car and go 90mph. I'll survive! You can horse whip me as well, I'll survive. The scene with Elliot was super phony but it worked cause he's the ultimate warrior. Yeah Bate and Sophie!!! This season is over that sucks! Best show on tv period!!!! When does dvd come out? Best line " I said I don't like guns never said I couldn't use them"
1)Will the public at large ever find out that Vittori and Sophie were not really getting married? I know none of this matters much, but I'm kinda curious.
2)Do you think The Italian will ever appear again ala Bonanno, the FBI guys, Sterling, etc.? Or is she going to dissappear after this season?
3)When was the decision to hook up Nate and Sophie made? Was it at the beginning of the season, or was it more of a last minute thing?
I really loved the finale, and I'm really looking forwards to next season. (I'm guessing it'll be in July like the last two times?) Keep up the good work!
Jarrod: Are you under the impression that Batman isn't an ace shot with guns? Elliot's line about not liking them doesn't mean he can't use them fits Batman, too.
So at the end of Season 2 I asked a lengthy question about Eliot implying that he could get the guys out of the standoff against the Feds, and whether we were supposed to believe Eliot was just superhuman (and follow the principles we'd seen him hold to thus far) or if he was desperate enough to cross a line. Your answer was that it was a spoiler.
So ... I'm assuming this was more or less what you had in mind?
Also, when Eliot asks Nate not to tell the team what he did, and Nate does the jokey "I don't know what you're talking about thing," was that intended as a joke for the audience (in which case it didn't work for me, but it was about the only thing that didn't), or was it another installment in By the Way, Nate Ford's a Dick?
Holy shit, you guys surpassed yourselves. Breathtaking, game-changing, nail-biting...How the hell are you ever going to top this? (I'm going to assume that is one of the questions answered by "you'll see next year".) And, hey, you paid attention to all three main pairings - Nate/Sophie, Pretzels, Eliot/Righteous Violence. Awesome!
Q: I would have watched two straight hours of Moreau and Eliot facing off. Sorry, not a question, just...damn, that scene by the pool was fantastic. You could feel the history there. Kudos all around.
Q: Was Moreau fooled for a second by Hardison's accent?
Q: Who is the warehouse massacre going to bother more in the long run: Nate, Eliot, or neither? It clearly cost Eliot to be that man again, but Nate's never even been tangentially responsible for a death (excluding his feelings of responsibility for Sam). Is he really okay with it because they were bad guys?
Q: How much of the campaign scam did Nate have planned before they got to San Lorenzo, and how much was developed on the fly? He never seemed out of control, but a lot of the key elements seemed to come together on the fly (Sophie jumping in as the girlfriend, Hardison and the mass emails).
Q: NATE AND SOPHIE. FINALLY. That was unexpected and completely delightful. At what point in the season did you know that would be the last shot of the finale?
Thank you all so much for a fantastic season and a superlative finale. Can't wait for Season 4!
In "The Big Bang Job" when Eliot's in the car and about to "kill" General Abertan he mentions something about a car. I didn't really understand that bit about the car still being in Virginia and then going to get dumped.
Oh My.... I really Really need my very own Eliot!!! The more intense he is the sexier he is. I loved that Christian got the Quigely line. It worked for the Character and it was cool that Christian got to deliver a tom Seleck line since he did do a western with the man.
How awesome was the Name drop. Me? I'm Eliot Spencer.
I know I maybe...should.. see Eliot in a new darker light after what is hinted at but I just can't see him as anything other than a Hero. I shall use the power of the fun train to derail any and all bad thoughts.
I loved the scene in the park when He asked Parker Not to Ask questions.
Okay, At the warehouse now and I have to know Just how did you guys come up with THAT Scene and how long did Christian Work on it to get it to come out that awesome??!!! Because Seriously...Seriously How are you ever gonna top That????!!!!
So we got to see Eliot use guns and then we got to see Eliots Guns... You are really trying to kill me here aren't you??
Then after the Emotional Angst and guns you give us Eliot with a Puppy. And the reveal that he'd never leave a member of the team behind, not that i ever doubted that because he is the Calivery after all :) but Head desk,It's a fan girls dream!
LOVED THE ENDING... The only thing that would have made it better would have been if he's actually seen something walked out of the room with a horrified look on his face and gotten to deliver the line to parker again.. Don't ask me parker Cause if you do I'll tell ya so don't ask me. LOL
I loved Every second of these ep's
I can not waituntil the new season starts. Crossing my fingers that TNT increases the ep count!
Oh did you see the Closer stole Nates line for the promo they were running. I'm sorry but KS just can't pull off the 'Wait for it."
@Daisy - Eliot was talking about all the traffic cameras in DC - meaning that he knew the car he and Moreau's man were in would be picked up on the cameras. So, he's trying to find out how the car will be disposed of so it can't be tracked. Moreau's guy tells him it will be put on a ship and then dumped out at sea...and the gun along with it.
@Video Beagle, I suppose if you look at that scene in a Final Crisis sort of way, Eliot using those guns mirrors Batman shooting Darkseid. Viewing these last two episodes as Final Crisis explains why Eliot took a back seat to the story of Nate and Hardison emailing out an anti-anti-life equation to help the people of San Lorenzo sing out and defeat Mandrakk...uh, Moreau.
Although, killing Sophie to win a presidential election makes me think more of Transmetropolitan than Final Crisis.
Daisy Bookworm said... In "The Big Bang Job" when Eliot's in the car and about to "kill" General Abertan he mentions something about a car. I didn't really understand that bit about the car still being in Virginia and then going to get dumped.
What car is getting dumped out at sea?
I could be wrong but I think they are talking about the Railroad "Car" that the device is in.
@Jarod - that was my take on the shoulder holster too - Eliot knows what he may be against, going into a building that Moreau has sent him to. He went in prepared to do what he might have to, even as much as it might be something he wouldn't want to.
I don't care how many colors you burn through for revisions, how much your liver hates you, or how many psuedo-cardiac events you have over actors doing risky stunts (on and off screen)---you can't tell me you don't have the best job ever, John Rogers.
You writers rock fully.
And I say this even though I still don't have a clue what Sohpie's real name is---unless it's the severeaux part that's false, and the Sophie that's true. I suppose a rose by any other name . . . wait! Nah . . .
No, I understood the dialogue. What I meant was that, given how serious Eliot is about this stuff, the way the line was delivered seemed inappropriate to me unless the intent was that it was Nate being a jerk (which he is from time to time).
It reminded me of, say, the scene when Clooney and Pitt go recruit Elliott Gould in Ocean's Eleven and Gould says "I still owe you for that time with the thing in the place." "I don't know what you're talking about." "I've never been to Belize!"
i.e., it seemed lighthearted to me, and I didn't think it was a lighthearted moment; it felt like Nate was sort of brushing off that Eliot did something he had a real problem with. So my question was whether the intention was for Nate to be inappropriately cavalier, or if this was just a case where my sense of the tone was out of step with the show's.
I thought CK got to me last year in "Tap Out," but he just gutted in BBJ. I was halfway prepared to find out Eliot knew/had worked for Moreau at some point, considering what he'd been and done before. But the scene in the park, when he had to come clean before the team, oh, man, I just ached for him. And then when I saw him reach for that gun, I swear all the air went out of the room.
But, sweet Jesus, that scene!!! I sense a lot of rewinding/rewatching in my immediate future. (And how much did Kane enjoy getting his Matrix on?)
So, I guess my question (so far) is this: Will what Eliot did in that warehouse have any repercussions next season? For three seasons now, he's been adamant on the "no guns" thing. It's been his code. Yet, for the team, he had to break that code and, essentially, revert to what he was. That's got to cause some damage. Will we see it?
Also, given his "the worst thing I ever did, I did for Damian Moreau" (or words to that effect, is it safe to assume that it's that thing, whatever it was, that caused him to lay down his guns in the first place? If so, how much worse does that make it that now, again because of Moreau, he had to pick them up again?
IOW, just how badly have y'all twisted up Eliot, and will we see the fallout?
Okay, the season is over. There was just something a bit off in the pacing of some of the 3rd season episodes, including The Big Bang Job. It's funny... my first exposure to the show was the last 15 minutes of The Inside Job followed by The Scheherazade Job, and it hooked me enough to get the Season 1 and 2 DVDs, which I DEVOURED and loved totally. However, a lot of Season 3 was not up to the standard of the first two in my opinion - and that of some friends whom I tried to get interested in the show, but were turned off by the uneven quality of Season 3 eps. Others' mileage certainly will vary, but that's my take.
That said, I was delighted to see a comedic final episode instead of another big, blockbustery, serious ep as in the first two years. At first I didn't even realize that it was going to be played that broadly; it snuck up on me. But it was fun. Now for the questions. I actually have a bunch this time. These are not in episode order!
1) Others have asked, but I'll enumerate it: When did Moreau learn Ford's name? And since he knew it, it almost weakened his final line of Who ARE you guys?
2) Won't Sophie's face be all over international media, making it easy to recognize her, even if they don't quite know WHO she is? Even CNN (thank you, corporate conglomerations) showed it, I think.
3) WHY did Eliot come running through the hangar toward Moreau? Did he think Moreau was going to shoot Nate? It seemed a dangerous and odd thing to do.
4) When Nate let Moreau get on the plane at the end of The Big Bang Job, he said he had plans for him. Was having him permanently incarcerated in San Lorenzo the plan, or did that come later?
5) And if it was the plan, why did he have to beg the team to help him do it?
6) And if Moreau was as dangerous as we'd been led to believe all season, would he truly have been cowed by U.N. inspectors?
7) Was the parking garage in the beginning of Big Bang the same location used for the hangar at the end, or was it just coincidence that the same green lighting was used in both?
8) Were the parts of the scenes facing the inside of the hangar (the green area) filmed at a separate location from the parts looking out from the hangar at the plane? The latter shots looked a bit strange.
9) When are WE going to learn Sophie's real name???
I look forward to Season 4. The ad at the end said Summer; do you have a tentative air date for the premiere yet?
Did Beth and Aldis actually jump onto a moving train? Damn. I hope I'm not wrong to be reading a lot into "Pretzels!"
Is Eliot in fact bulletproof? And explosion-proof? What the heck was in that cardboard box, steel plates? I nitpick because I love, and boy, do I love. That scene was fantastic! Kane knocked it out of the park, too.
Can we please keep this emotionally stable and reasonably mature Nate? He's still a right bastard and half-crazy, but I like him better when he's in control of himself.
Sophie just shone in The San Lorenzo Job. And I loved those little smiles she was giving Nate. "Now we're partners. Friends!" Uh-huh. I should've seen that coming. And now that I have seen it, I may be using it as my desktop wallpaper.
I had no idea who Goran Visnjic or Elisabetta Cannalis were before this, so to me they're always gonna be Damien Moreau and The Italian.
Good to see Bonnano again! I wonder if we'll see The Italian again someday.
So Eliot... did THAT, and the team stole a country. How the heck are you going to top THIS?
BBJ: 1. Atherton made me think of Atherton Wing from Firefly "Shindig" 2. Kane did a great job when he asked Parker not to ask him what Eliot did. They were both on the verge of tears. Oh, my Eliot just became the woobie! 3. Knew it would be bad when Eliot picked up the gun. Plus, Eliot in the warehouse = River Tam 4. Liked Visnjic as Moreau 5. Kane needs to wear that shade of blue more often 6. LIked Nate's tiny smirk at the end of the episode when the Italian said our team couldn't get him in his country.
Question: we got Pretzels. was that because the excitement of escapade got Parker going?
SLJ: 1. More of Eliot's background. 2. Loved Sophie teaching Vittori about confidence and connecting with people. 3. And Sophie steps in and wins the election! 4. When Rebecca got shot, I was pretty sure our team was behind it. But it was still fun to see the reveal. 5. The guy playing Vittori made me think of Zachary Levi. 6. I appreciate that you finally got Nate and Sophie together, at the very end. but why no shirtless Nate?
Okay, now I want to know when the DVDs come out.
You really know how to keep us all hanging!
Thanks for doing the show, the Q and As and the DVD commentary.
@Medrawt, I'm with Video Beagle in that I didn't get any sense of dickishness from Nate in his response to Eliot. I've watched it twice now, and all I got was Nate assuring Eliot that what happened in that warehouse will remain Eliot's story to tell.
It might have seemed a bit offhanded, but the team was right there, and any other kind of response might have piqued their curiosity. My feeling was that Nate was just reassuring Eliot in the quickest and least obvious manner he could.
Really, really fantastic couple of episodes - there was something for everyone. For all the great special effects and the lovely shipper moments, though, I thought the best aspect across the board was the acting - these guys are the best ensemble at using stillness that I've ever seen. There were several beats of silence and space that were just breathtaking (especially the Moreau/Eliot standoff while Hardison was in the pool and the team's beats as Hardison dropped each line about Eliot and Moreau in the scene after), above and beyond the great individual and team moments throughout.
I have just a few questions, and then I have to go watch the episodes again.
1) Why did Eliot engage the guys in the warehouse after Nate and the Italian had cleared out, instead of just getting away himself? It looked like he was near the door they used, but then he turned back and took Moreau's guys out. It was an amazing scene, but it seemed like Eliot might've been able to get out of the situation without so much bloodshed if he wanted. Unless he thought taking out the guys was the only way to keep them from coming after the team.
2) What was Moreau's reason for shooting the Italian? He didn't appear to be aiming to kill. Was he just trying to slow down Nate and Eliot?
3) Where was San Lorenzo? I'd like to go there for vacation - the overhead coastal shots were gorgeous.
Thanks so much for a fantastic Season 3. It's been wonderful. Oh, one more! Is there a definite date for the first episode of Season 4?
@Medrawt - I know it's a matter of interpretation, but I have to agree with Video Beagle and Sue N - I think it was just Nate's way of saying, and indicating, it was a done deal, a closed matter - and he would never bring it up again.
And like Sue N said, the rest of the team was walking up - it wasn't like Nate could make a big dramatic moment out of it to reassure Eliot - he was just trying to make it look like he and Eliot were just talking.
I liked the call back to Eliot's intro in the first episode when Moreau mentioned Belgrade, Serbia. Also had extra meaning knowing that Visnjic served in the Croatian army against the Serbs...
After wrenching finales the past two years, it's so awesome for the team to be unabashadly successful and together this time. Great stuff, from the Eliot action to the awesome con in the second.
It's also nice after so much Sophie-Nate angst and uncertainty to see them as equals and together in a funny, lighthearted way. I don't know if I loved the ending more for the surprise of it or the great "what the hell did we do" looks they exchanged.
QUESTION: Can we get more fun and less angst from them in Season 4 - even if it is a brilliant mistake, it can be a fun brilliant mistake right?
Overall, I really think you took the show to a new level tonight, both with the complexity of the action sequence and the satire in the end. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it had all the usual Leverage-y goodness but was sharper and more sophisticated, too.
QUESTIONS: How would you compare this ep to others you've written? I know you said it was your most cynical, but did you see any other differences in tone between this ep and others you've written?
Is the sharper/more cynical tone something that you'll try to shift more towards in Season 4 or is that the kind of thing you can't/don't really plan out that depends more on each individual script or something else?
Whose idea was it to use a toilet as a communication device? That was funny, and a really good idea.
Nate actually looked nervous a couple times here. Nothing sells a con as *this is really dangerous and we may be over our heads* more than Hutton just stammering a little and swallowing hard. Has anyone told Tim Hutton what a great actor he is? He should win an award or something. They have awards for that, right?
Yeah, I didn't see any dickishness in Nate's reply. I like the idea that even though he knows what happened, he'll pretend it didn't because Eliot would prefer Nate's image of him not to take that aspect of him into account.
In a similar vein, I took Parker's nod less as a sign that she has a particularly good inkling of what Eliot's done, and more as a "You're right, I really don't want to know" kind of thing. Of course she's not an idiot, but I think that because even more than most people Parker operates with a very carefully constructed personal version of "reality", having Eliot's past [mis]deeds put into clear sentences would do particular damage to her "big brother" image of him. Or in other words, I think she can deal with the abstract notion of Eliot-as-Very Bad Man, but she wouldn't have wanted to see that warehouse. She wouldn't want to be afraid of him in that way.
In any case, let me just join the chorus noting that Mr. Kane acted the HELL out of Big Bang. And Ms. Riesgraf, too, in that particular scene, saying so little but conveying so much.
I really liked the little detail of a big puddle of aviation grade lubricant facilitating Eliot's Big Moment, rather than having him just run that gauntlet. I realize that particular "realism" wasn't a goal in that scene, but I appreciated that gesture nonetheless. That, and the visibility of criss-crossing bullet trails, which I took as encouraging us to infer that friendly fire was part of Eliot's plan. Even if that wasn't the intention, I'm going with Rogers' rule of assume-whatever-is-most-compelling-for-you; I like the idea that Eliot's Big Moment wasn't just showcasing his sheer destructive potential but also illustrating his concern with setting up the battlefield in one's favor as much as possible, and his ability to do so.
But was anyone else just the tiniest bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Samurai Eliot?
Pool scene was great. Wondering if Eliot would "break character" and go in after Hardison had me in suspense as much as wondering what, exactly, Eliot's Big Moment was going to be.
Also, I was glad someone got in a "You're adorable" this season.
Eliot went running through the hangar toward Moreau to protect Nate. It's what he does. We've seen him attempt to throw himself between Nate/the team and armed threats several times now.
And when Nate said, "I've got plans for you," I think he was talking to Eliot rather than Moreau.
I'm gonna break with the general thread and say that while I loved a lot of these 2 eps, some parts fell flat, mostly the Warehouse scene. Elliot's first on-screen kill is given no impact until after the fact, Elliot 2-fisted pistols, which almost no experienced gunman does, and then you went matrix on us. Elliot shouldn't be dodging bullets. He's good, but at some point it breaks suspension of disbelief, and that did it.
Me again. Had to mention how much I loved the "shallow graves" exchange between Nate and Sophie, and her knowing little smile at him. That brief conversation showed how they really are partners now.
Also, I noticed that Gina did her death scene with her eyes open. That's hard! Very convincing, but ouch. Can't blink for long minutes. I was impressed.
Also also, I liked that Nate ended this season saying "I'm a thief", too.
@Sue N - That's what I thought the first time I heard it, that Nate said to Eliot "I have other plans for you". Upon listening to it a 2nd time, he says "I have other plans for him".
I think at that point Nate knew they were going to have to take him down in San Lorenzo....where there's no extradition.
That gunfight in the warehouse was a deliberate Equilibrium homage, wasn't it? The moment Eliot stood up and cocked both guns in one smooth cross-arm motion, I said, "he's about to go all Grammaton Cleric on their asses, isn't he?"
Loved the 'Pretzels' scene, Beth sold that line to me. Yet, when she came out of the steam pipe she said it was a "dry heat" nice nod to aliens, but never had dry steam before. Right, few Qs 1st, whilst you did show them in bed, did they actually? 2nd, back to pretzels, I know you said that the relationship would take time, but if we get more payouts like that I'll be happy for at least another season. Did Beth and Aldis do the bridge jump or the running and jumping along the top of the train? 3rd, are there any ideas that you personally have been waiting multiple seasons to do left? or have the characters evolved to a point where original ideas(as in ones from pilot/Season1) just don't fit them anymore? Keep up the damn fine work Jon.
Well, you've done it. None of us will believe Eliot can be in physical peril again. Ever. Good thing he's one of the good guys now! It was extremely satisfying to get an answer about why he stays with the group, and it was a much, much better answer than I expected. Even more telling than his secret connection with Moreau was his precarious handling of his personal relationship with the rest of the crew. Now I think I understand--they're not just his friends, are they?
(That was a rhetorical question. The rest aren't.)
The San Lorenzo Job felt odd, since it was lighter than Big Bang and Moreau was much more of a human being than a criminal superpower. Normally, the second half of the finale would be the action-packed, intense half. Why the switch-up?
It'll be really difficult to up the threat level next season. You've already taken down the big bad of the crime world, a man so dangerous that the aforementioned invincible thief is visibly scared of him. Are you thinking you'll lighten up and play season 4 more like previous seasons, or will you rise to the challenge (thereby kicking the challenge's ass)?
Wow, what a ride!!! Despite the fact that I had to use a construction crane to suspend my disbelief during that Matrix scene in the warehouse, I loved watching Kane kick butt! The rest of the actors knocked these two episodes out of the park, as well.
As for folks asking about what Eliot did before he joined the team, what about 'hitter = hit man' do you not get?! He's moved past that in his life and obviously didn't want to return to it unless there was no other option, but it's apparent he thought taking up arms and killing was the only way to keep Moreau's men from coming after Nate and the Italian. I just hope he doesn't beat himself up over it and that the team doesn't hold it against him if/when they find out. As for Nate's words to Eliot, I got the feeling he meant he'd keep Eliot's secret.
Questions for Mr. Rogers:
Is there a reason behind giving the code name "Ram's Horn" to the EMP bomb? Is it something to do with a Shofar (ritual horn) or possibly with the line in the old folk song/poem "Lover's Taskes"? Pardon, I home in on little details like that and the curiosity kills me. :-p
The General addressed Eliot as Commander Spencer. Was that his rank in the US Navy (Commander is a Naval rank), a rank he held in a company of freelancers (mercs), rank in some nameless Government Agency, or rank he may have held in the security forces of San Lorenzo (honorary or otherwise)?
Will we learn more about Eliot's military background in season 4? The stiffness with which he took and held the position of "At Ease" while addressing the General was a dead giveaway (as was the General addressing him as Commander).
Lastly, thank you to you, Mr. Rogers, and all of the folks who bring us "Leverage"! I consider it 'must see TV' and one of the most entertaining series on the tube these days. I'm really looking forward to what you come up with in season 4 and, hopefully, far beyond that as well!
Very good job on both episodes. You took what seemed like pretty fantastic stories and made them seem and feel feasible.
The thing I loved the most was how you demonstrated why this team sticks together, it's not just because they love doing what they do, it's not just because they like helping people, it's because they're a family who loves and cares about each other.
The big question now is, where do you go from here? Because now that you've had Nate deal with his personal demons for two seasons and then have the team take down a major financier of evil while stealing a country along the way, you just have to wonder.
So now they're just going to go back to Boston and keep helping people, obviously, but what else is there going to be to it?
Oh god. I haven't read any comments yet here so I don't know if I'm the only one thinking this but all I can say is that Amy Berg would not have done it this shitty. I knew things would go downhill for Nate/Sophie when she left. Should N/S shippers thank you for this? Did you expect to make anyone happy with this? I really wonder.
And another thing. Why is all the violence, beating the crap out of people as well as using guns, okay to be shown on screen and actually wasting several minutes on it but we don't get to see a simple love scene with some kissing between two characters who love each other? We only got a few seconds of... not much really. We've been waiting for this for 3 seasons, and that's all? You glorify the violence, focus on that a lot, yet you totally diminish the significance of Nate and Sophie finally getting together, it's like 'oh btw. they had sex.' The end. Needless to say this could've been done SO much better. I guess that wasn't your intention. Thank you for adding that drunken element. That really made things so much better. *sarcasm* Another one of those wasted N/S opportunities this season. Can we expect about the same of their relationship next season? Off-screen and extremely underwhelming? Come on, put as much effort into N/S as you do into all the violent elements of this show. I'd think it would be obvious what should get more attention.
I really expected more after the Christmas episode and what happened there between them. And still no real name, didn't you say a few blogs ago that Sophie will tell her real name to Nate? What was that about?
I'm really getting tired of how this show treats Nate and Sophie. Season 4 won't be so hard to wait for after all. If that was at all your intention with the "cliffhanger". It didn't work with this viewer.
Why is it so hard to make fans happy for showrunners, I wonder. You failed with this one.
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
"I'm the stick."
So glad that neither Nate or Eliot got shot.
Chris in a tank top. OMG!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I love it when a plan comes together. Thanks for explaining how the other jobs tied into this one.
San Lorenzo episode looks more like a movie on TV. Interesting.
What PDX locations were used? The San Lorenzo buildings are so pretty!
Tim looks really good in hats.
Aww! It's Cinnamon!!
Ooh, I recognize the building from Fairy Godparents Job!
Cool phone delivery system.
"Age of the Geek baby!" For the win!
I think Hardison & Eliot just "killed" Sophie!
"I'm a thief."
"You know what I have? I have a 24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority" :D :D
Parker & the gold bars. So cute!
Nate & Sophie OMG!!! Finally!!!
BTW, I'm very amused that the random verification code that I'm looking at is "hotornie".
You just were right in saying it would be the best finale so far. Gorgeous, all of it was perfection.
Eliot's scene was amazing. How long did that sequence take?
i seriously did not see that one coming. It was amazing.
The train scene was amazing too. PRETZELS! :)
Are we going to find out what Eliot did for Moreau?
I'm afraid to know because the look on his face was tell enough that it was a very bad thing.
FINALLY!! Nate/Sophie. I was wondering when that was going to happen.
I can't wait for Next Season.
Thank you and Dean and EVERYONE for bringing us this great show every week. I've loved it since the very beginning and i don't see myself ever stopping :)
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
"I'm the stick."
So glad that neither Nate or Eliot got shot.
Chris in a tank top. OMG!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I love it when a plan comes together. Thanks for explaining how the other jobs tied into this one.
San Lorenzo episode looks more like a movie on TV. Interesting.
What PDX locations were used? The San Lorenzo buildings are so pretty!
Tim looks really good in hats.
Aww! It's Cinnamon!!
Ooh, I recognize the building from Fairy Godparents Job!
Cool phone delivery system.
"Age of the Geek baby!" For the win!
I think Hardison & Eliot just "killed" Sophie!
"I'm a thief."
"You know what I have? I have a 24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority" :D :D
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
FUCKING AWESOME seeing Eliot with guns. But back to no guns, now, please. Or else it wouldn't be a treat! I didn't have a problem seeing him kill bad guys. Just makes him that much more dangerous/sexier.
Is Sophie/Gina pregnant? Many of us commented on what looked like a baby bump.
You really got me at the end. I couldn't tell the others in the chat room for fear of ostracism, but I fully expected that fucking Italian to pop up in the bed! LOL!
Holy crap, you guys! Holy crap! That was AMAZING!!
Questions: 1) When does Eliot Spenser get his own big-screen movie? "The Retrievalist" - I'd pay extra to see that film!
2) How dangerous was it for the actors/stunt-people to film on top of the moving train?
3) After they blew up the EMP bomb, did Parker ever get those pretzels she was hungry for?
4) How are you guys so awesome?
Thanks for a great season and a fantastic season finale! And thanks for this blog and answering all our questions after every episode. I am looking forward to Season 4 this summer.
@Video Beagle What does it matter how I sign in. None of us know each other anyway. The point is what I've written. You're focusing on the irrelevant part.
I miss the really meaningful scenes between Nate and Sophie, something not rushed, not about the cons, when I felt the writer really cared about them as a couple and each as a separate character, where we would learn new things about them. I don't feel we're getting that anymore (her real name, something more about their past, where they are now, there was nothing only teases, nothing definite), I did in season 1 and 2. Could this ever be brought back to what it was?
Was the San Lorenzo Job shot to look like a BBC program or happy accident? The look reminded me of the look and colors of Doctor Who, especially the scenes from parliment. Thanks for another wonderful season, awesome!!!
How did you decide A) to have Eliot in a shoot out B)to give it a Matrix feel and C) to have Eliot without a doubt kill someone with a gun at the end?
Also will we ever learn exactly what he did for Moreau? Because Kane acted the hell out of that and blew me away. The subtle nuances he gave when telling the others about his past with Moreau and his begging Parker not to ask, was amazing. Beautiful writing and amazing acting.
That great gun battle was so much Matrix-like :-) The character had to have so much luck not to get hurt in that battle – a bit unreallistic but I liked it. How did you came up with the idea that Elliot should use the guns not his hands?
Will Elliot tell us what he had to do for Monreau?
Is Hardison really only 24? – I'm feeling sooo old ;-)
On the DVD will we see some outtakes?
Thanx a lot for that finale. Can't wait for the next season!
I've gotta echo Old_Warhorse for just a sec; all season long I've been finding it hard to believe that anyone could still be unclear on what Eliot's previous criminal life entailed.
And on that note, I've never been much for Twitter campaigns, but if anyone were to try getting Sylvester Stallone's Twitter attention with a hashtag along the lines of #ChristianKaneforTheExpendables2, you could count me in.
So very much to love, way too much to cover all the great individual moments. So just a couple of things noted, and only one real question.
Personally, given the trajectory of previous seasons, I think it seems inevitable that Sophie and Nate would *both* have to get drunk in order to move past that last barrier to physical intimacy. And because they are both such complex characters, with such a complex shared history, there's no way they would have developed true intimacy before sleeping together. They're both just too vulnerable to each other, that's going to take (hopefully) many more seasons to resolve. I relish that, and am SO looking forward to watch it develop. No reason we can't see the heat level rise in the meantime.
My question, however, has to do with one of Parker's observations.
"You were drinking. You. Were. Drinking." OMFG, in 2 shows filled with such great moments, *that* is one of my favorites. Buuuut....
Out of all of them, Parker is the only one who has never questioned the success of any of Nate's plans, or the responsibilities he assigns her in order to make them work. I remember one specific episode where the rest of the team blasted Nate for putting Parker in danger unnecessarily while she blithely did as she was told. While the rest of the team have expressed doubts about how Nate's lack of sobriety may be affecting his decisions, Parker never has.
And she's still not complaining. She's just noting that, while functional Nate and out-of-control Nate may ask the exact same thing, there is a difference. But that difference doesn't seem to matter to her.
All of that is just a long way of observing that Parker will do whatever Nate tells her to, regardless of his level of sobriety.
My question is why? Is it because Nate is like a father figure, or because it's just part of the Parker craziness - her disregard for risk and/or possible injurious outcomes? Both? Neither?
Again, fabulous job, and thanks so much for satisfying our curiosity in this space. Major awe and admiration for all of you.
Oh one other thing. I thought you were never going to have Sophie and Nate get together during the series. So I fully expected The Italian to pop up in bed with Nate. (how did Eliot miss another person in the bed?). We aren't going to get get weird Sophie/Nate for season 4 are we? No one wants a repeat of Moonlighting.
I've only watched the epis once, and perhaps my opinion will change with rewatching, but I'm going to have to agree with Hugin. The warehouse scene killed the BBJ for me. I cannot suspend my disbelief that much.
There is no way any human being could have survived that warehouse completely unscathed, so that means Eliot's a goddamn superhero now? I love this show -- and Eliot in particular -- and it made me sad, and mad, to find myself rolling my eyes at that scene. From the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy skills of the minions, to the "oh my God, he's standing in front of us glaring -- we can't possibly shoot him now!" moment, it was just waaaaaaay too over the top.
I do have to say that everyone was brilliant in the park scene, but Christian and Beth were just magnificent. Such controlled emotion from him, and the perfect response from her. Great scene.
Thankfully, I *loved* the SLJ, and that completely saved the finale for me. The satire was brilliant, the teamwork was fantastic, the actor who played the candidate was just perfect, and I actually enjoyed the few hints we got of Eliot's past from Flores (I think that's his name) much more than the stuff that felt really forced to me in the BBJ. Is there anyone who didn't *already* know that Eliot's done some Very Bad Things in his past?
So while I'm halfway dreading the rewatching of the BBJ, I can't wait to rewatch the SLJ!
One actual question -- I'm pretty sure you've said in the past that Eliot is an army guy (am I just imagining that?) and as far as I know, Commander is not an army rank. So what gives? Maybe ours is not the only army he's served in?
As for the anon complaining about the way N/S has been handled, I only want to address one point of your comment -- about her name: just what do you think she wrote on the napkin she handed him in the bar after he gave her the jewelry? "Merry Christmas?"
I think these two episodes gave us everything we wanted. Eliot action, clever plot twists, explosions...except one thing. Sophie will sleep with Nate but not tell him her real name, that's the only unbelievable thing I saw... :)
Only Question: Were you drunk the day they ran along the top of the train?
Ral and Hugin - I understand your comments on the Eliot fight, but to me, it's still in keeping with the show's fairly broad approach.
Yeah, Eliot should be dead about 10 times over, but the choreography was so slick, and with the special effects added in - it killed my suspension of disbelief, but it did so in a very entertaining way. Definitely "awesomely ridiculous."
Am I mistaken or didn't Sophie give Nate her real name as his christmas present in the HHH Job?
Normally hate the "matrix" effect in movies and tv shows but my love of Eliot overcame that. Awesome scene, awesome actor. Thanks for letting him do his own stunts!
Great episodes, can't wait for season 3 on DVD and Season 4 can't get here fast enough!!!
There is no doubt that the finale is every bit as good as any action movie I've ever seen - and I have seen them all. All the better since your cast can actually act and some of those intense scenes between Eliot and the whole crew raised the bar to a whole new level. Someone should buy the writers, director and actors a couple of rounds for sure and then set them back to work. You're going to have to get up very early every day between now and March to top this one!
Holy #$%*!!!!!! You realize now you have to top the Gun Fight towards the end of epi 1. I'm anxious to see you do it. Goran Visnjic was excellent as Moreau. He played that part to a T. Although I have to say I was a little disappointed with the way they put him away. I'm hoping that he comes back to bite Nate and the Team in the a$$. Will he or is he done? I'm looking forward to the next season; can't wait to see what you do next!!!
I'm much happier and satisfied with the way they've "told" us what Eliot did without ever actually saying it directly. To me, it had more emotional impact as the (not so) subtext than if Eliot had just answered Parker's question directly.
As far as Nate and Sophie - too many shows in the past that had the "will they or won't they" tension between the characters for a few seasons, went downhill once they got together. Finding out "they will" and they did sometimes removes what was an important element of the show. And too often, showrunners trying to "make all the fans happy" is what ends up wrecking what was a really good show.
I trust John Rogers to make sure that doesn't happen here. It will be interesting to see where they take Nate and Sophie in the next season.
Did Eliot somehow get the keys to the handcuffs to Hardison? I realize Eliot had to keep up the persona known to Damien, but would he have pulled him out of the pool? Maybe he was listening for bubbles and/or counting minutes (4 mins. befor brain damage.) Standing there and almost letting Hardison drown was "creepier" than Eliot shooting/killing people (to me at least.) Also I was really surprised that Hardison could continue to work beside Eliot. Seemed like the trust thing had been blown.
I bow down and concede defeat. After the hubbub surrounding the finale and the fight scenes etc etc, I honestly thought it was all conjecture and a ploy to get us to watch (even though I am an avid watcher of this show already). I'm glad to be proven wrong :)
The BBJ was nothing short of brilliant, it had everything. I didn't enjoy the San Lorenzo job quite as much, just a personal choice because I dislike anything political in any show. But still could appreciate the amazing writing.
I do have one question, and I am gonna feel like a heel if it gets answered and it's so very obvious, BUT.....in the warehouse shootout scene......every time Eliot moved he got shot at. He made a run and shoot move 3 times and was immediately fired at. However, before the eyegasmic floor slide through the sludgey stuff, he calmly stood up and stood there for a good 30 seconds before he made his run and slide. Why wasn't he shot at when he first stood up?
I like to think it was because the baddies were in total awe of the enigma that is Eliot Spencer and were taken aback at first...but I am thinking that is not correct.
Thank you for putting your amazing mark on this show with your fantastic mind John. Its my favorite show on TV.
Was blown away. 1) So Cmdr. Eloit Spencer, like Cmdr. James Bond? Was he a Navy Seal? 2) We now know that Eliot in nothing but the complete warrior. The fight scene was awesome. Is it a representation of how Eliot sees combat when he lets the Warrior/Berserder part of him loose? 3.) Still waiting of Sophie's real name| Is there a reason we still don't know it?
Oh and would like to add that Mr Kane is a fucking genius. I actually teared up with his and Parkers exchange in the park where he told her to not ask him what he did.
wow that was an awesome finale. although i loved part one the best. Eliot kicked major ass.
i love how parker said she wanted "pretzels", although i was hoping you would show hardison or parker following up on that commment. someone making a move, ya know?
What can be said about those two episodes? Just amazing.
I can understand how some people might have a problem with the warehouse scene, but the way Elliot cocked the guns said it all. Gun-Fu was about to commence and there the rules are a little different. Love that I wasn't the only one who was reminded of Equilibrium. And I might be projecting but the music during the scene was vaguely spaghetti western to me.
I'm surprised no one commented on how the scandal that is worse than corruption or sex was animal cruelty. Just did the IMDB search on Goran so was that a nod to his work for animal rights?
And I thought it was a gun holster Elliot had on but you can see he gets the clips from the dead guys. Plus there is a shot where you can see it halfway decent and the design is wrong. My thinking is it's for his retractable baton.
Any confusion on how Nate delivered the "I don't know what you're talking about" line is cleared up by two words. "Elliot...listen." He was asking for a minute to come up with something so Elliot wouldn't have to deal with those guys. He didn't get that minute so Nate gave him what he could, the team not being faced with the fact that Elliot not only went there but did so for them.
Two questions. It looked like Elliot was the only one who put the black around his eyes when they rescued that researcher. Force of habit or Batman shout-out? And Nate didn't look too concerned when Moreau pulled the gun on him. Did he think Moreau wasn't the type to get his hands dirty, cause he had to know Elliot wasn't going to get there in time?
Loved how Sophie had to see the turnout for her second funeral and Nate getting on her for that.
And don't care which other episodes you manage to, you HAVE to have the cast do the commentary for these ones. And maybe if Goran could join in as well? Always nice to hear actors talk about their first bad guy role.
Loved the ending shot. Was so thinking, 'Nah it won't be Sophie. They just wanted you to think it is.' And then sure enough.
Loved all the other bits that were mentioned. You guys are amazing!
First off, I'm in lurv with you and your finale-writing partners. Lurv, I say!
Second, I also found the shootout too over the top to enjoy, but you made up for it with the character development of Eliot. Love that ya'll didn't flinch and showed us that he was the brutal killer (of a family!) we suspected he was, and loved that you've shown what I suspected, which is that he is, inherently, a soldier. That's him at the core, not just something he did as a job for a while, and the team are his fellow soldiers he'd die for and never leave behind.
It explains a lot in terms of his devotion to the team and his willingness to be led unless he absolutely needs to lead.
Third, Goran V was a great villian. I wasn't in love with his casting at first, but he impressed me. He may be the highest quality villian you guys ever had - both because he acted it well and he's got a big star's charisma. He helped the whole thing feel like a movie.
Fourth, the second half was the epitome of fun train! Unlike the shootout, it stretched credibility in all the right places! Loved Nate as the campaign dude. The dog fight rumor scene was hysterical and so true! Loved that Nate and Moreau were in open competition throughout the ep. Tim Hutton really seems to up his game when Nate has open competition, like with Sterling. LOVED Sophie's improv, and she finally gave a great death scene!! And there were definitely squees heard round the world with that ending.
The only thing I wanted was maybe even a little more cynicism, maybe a slight hint that Michael could end up being just as corrupt as the past president, since we all know that corruption is part and parcel of the politician's life. But I guess it was there subtly, since he did adopt the dishonesty of the campaign and was willing to negotiate the president's way out of office at the end, so maybe a minor quibble there.
Now on to the questions. 1) Did Moreau know that Eliot was setting him up when he ordered the warehouse hit or was he just taking Eliot and whoever he was working for out as a business decision? If he knew, what tipped him off?
2) Will Sophie's grand televised death impact her ability to grift in the future?
3) What happened to the guys in the Italian's organization who sold her out to Moreau? Will the team ever work with the Italian again?
4) Did Michael realize that the death scene was planned? He didn't seem to understand on the balcony that they were trying to kill him, but seems like something that big would require him playing along.
We all kinda know what Elliot did for Moreau, or think we do, but why couldn't he walk away before having to do that? Moreau didn't have anything over his head otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get away at all. So if it was so bad how could he do it?
Loved Goran as Monroe, great casting and also a part of Eliot's past coming up to bite him ;). I must admit my fave scene of 'The Big Bang Job' was the scene in the park with the team, Eliot telling them how in knew Monroe.
I must out of the two, 'San Lorenzo Job' was my fave as it dealt with Sophie (she is my fave character along with Nate). Loved how Sophie took the bull by the horns and went straight in on camera as Nate was still thinking of a plan, way to go Sophie!!
Now the ending ;), WOOOOO & also you Evil man Lol. Finally Nate/Sophie slept together then the credits roll, ARGHHH.....
I hoping we get some Nate/Sophie flashbacks of how they got into bed in the S4 première ;) If this wasn't a finale, it would be damn hard for me to wait a week, now have to wait 7 months!!, eek I can't wait that long...
The first hour was great! LOVED Hardison's reaction to Eliot's past! Aldis did great with showing anger, surprise, and shock all in just a moment.
Best lines: "Tell him Eliot Spencer is here" and "pretzels"
Honestly, I was disappointed in the big gun battle scene. It's all been done before and was too Matrix-y. The greatness of Eliot is that he can kick ass without guns. Also, really? He was shielded by cardboard?? It all got a bit unbelievable--even for Eliot. And why would it be so bad to tell the others what happened? He's gone in and killed bad people before, when he's had too--just not with guns...is that why?
I do like that we saw more into Eliot's past--but then we already knew that he was a really bad guy before...I did like the point when Parker asked what he did, and I liked the look she made in response to what he answered.
The second hour got slow and I felt having them back to back, may have been the issue. You've got a high energy go-go-go fighting episode followed by a thinking and insightful (into American politics) episode right after. I think it lost momentum...if they were on different nights, I don't think this would have been a problem.
Loved the way it ended with Nate and Sophie in bed...are we ever going to know her real name?
I thoroughly enjoyed both eps, although like a few others here I did have to suspend my disbelief during the warehouse scene a bit. It was still awesome, but it didn't feel like Eliott - the Eliott I see is more the "Hardison, Dark" Eliott - skulky & brutal, an assassin, not showy. But the Eliott in the warehouse was a completely different man. So my question: was that intentional? Is Eliott With Guns meant to be so starkly different from Eliott With Bare Hands? To me, EWBH is scarier than EWG. I anticipated seeing him sneak off through the warehouse, popping up behind each baddie and snapping his neck or putting a round in his brainpan.
Also, why is it in TV & film that, when someone has a perfect shooting position, adequate cover, and a great open shot at the baddie, they can't hit them, but when they're sliding across a floor or doing something equally Awesomely Ridiculous, their aim improves? :-) Rhetorical really, I know it makes for an entertaining show. But if Eliott really was channeling River Tam he would have nailed every baddie with that first barrage of shots. Which would have been SO fucking badass.
I yelled at the TV when Eliott gave his real name, and also teared up at bit at the Park scene. Kudos to CK and BR for a brilliant job. How did Mark Roskin coach them to pull that scene off, or did it take any coaching at all?
Also, why shoot The Italian? Moreau wouldn't have gained anything if he had killed her, except maybe buy some time to get away from Rampaging Eliott, but he could have achieved that by shooting Nate plus it would have gotten Nate off his back.
My two cents about What Eliott Did That Was So Bad: he made a point of telling the team how Moreau didn't spare innocents, that the baddies working for him wouldn't blink at killing a family to get who they wanted. And the Busey also pointed out that he had wanted to take out Atherton's whole family. My guess, which would tie into why E laid down arms and also why he makes such an effort to protect kids, is that he was instructed by Moreau to kill a family, and it broke him.
The San Lorenzo Job was also awesome in an entirely different way. American Political Campaign = A Con Moreau Wouldn't Recognize = Satire on a whole 'nother level. AWESOME. Although I'll echo another poster, it was a strange shift of mood and energy to go from BBJ to SLJ and took me a few minutes to regain my concentration. I don't think I have any questions, although I do hope we get some more backstory on the General and Eliott, they seemed to have a strong camaraderie.
Congrats on a great season! The fans at this house are very happy & excited for the DVD commentaries and extras. Nudge nudge. :-)
1) To those asking what horrible thing Eliot did when working for Moreau -- what could possibly be worse than whatever you imagine given the dialogue so far? What could any actual revelation add to that?
2) Eliot as "Commander" -- if San Lorenzo is in the Balkans, Eliot probably served under this General in some informal capacity as we know he fought there extensively. His rank might be analogous to the Mexican revolutionary "Subcommandante Marcos" for example.
3) Cute idea having San Lorenzo be a former British colony to finesse the whole language issue. There is ample precedent for such colonies -- Gibraltar, Malta (given a shout-out in the script), Minorca, Cyprus. Someone said it was on the Dalmatian coast -- was that an inference from an on-screen map that I didn't catch, or just from GV's accent?
4) The populist revolution being manipulated by a small conspiracy has its real-life precedents (check out, for example, the review in the current New Yorker about the original Boston Tea Party) but I was most reminded of the Lunar Revolution in Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Did Rogers (a known sf geek) have that in mind as well?
WV: "porat" -- character played by Sacha Paron Cohen
Wasn't the whole point of the conversation with the replacement Eliot to tell us that Eliot had killed a family, and Moreau knew he wouldn't do it again?
PS: Apologies for multiple posts, Google kept popping up with an error message when I hit the Publish button. So, new commenters, watch out for that & yes, your comment did post! :-)
@DaveMB Someone said it was on the Dalmatian coast -- was that an inference from an on-screen map that I didn't catch, or just from GV's accent?
The establishing shots were of Dubrovnik and Sibenik, along the Croatia's Dalmatian coast. I think someone earlier speculated he might have had something to do with their being used.
Let's see: The Matrix, Real Genius, plenty of Bond riffs from Moreau plus a Goldeneye/Octopussy train gambit, leading to Pygmalion and, oh, what did I miss?
@Ral: Is there anyone who didn't *already* know that Eliot's done some Very Bad Things in his past?
Have you read the messages? There's a bunch of people here who apparently think that before joining the team, Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies.
To spell it out for the fangirls...Elliot was a hired killer. The "worst thing he did" was very likely killing a target, but not before he killed every member of the target's family in front of him. Likely by beating them to death, including the target's son. (which answers the questions from Order 23 Job).
*****************
@Anon : You might not know who anyone on the board is, but there are several RL friends who post here. Maybe you're just anti-social.
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@Kate: You mentioned in the webchat that there was something in this ep you've been waiting to write since you were 12.
I'd bet on the sliding across the floor shooting people bit.
I envision a young Rogers sliding across the linoleum in his socks with water guns.
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@Ally : Re Sophie's death on television. Could you identify the president of any postage stamp country? Or even a larger country? What's the first lady of Canada look like? How about Jill Biden? In the US, the most that 99% of the people will even be aware of her is a brief note in the 24hr news about the President calling to congratulate Michael on his election and condolences on the loss of his wife.
**********
The Who are You Guys bit. Clearly Moreau did some research between the two episodes, since he knew Nate's name and about them taking down Duberman, but then, knowing that, following the tracks, the bit at the end was a bit over much, as he'd by then know exactly who Nate was and clearly knew who the Italian was.
Which leads us to....
**********
After thinking about Moreau for a night.... he was actually a pretty crap arch-villain. To some extent, Nate sums it up at the end that he's just a guy in a suit....but there was a lot of tell, not show about him.
Nate: "He didn't know we were coming, and he still almost killed all of us." No he didn't. Dubenich almost killed them all. Moreau didn't come close to killing Sophie/Hardison/Parker, and as for Nate and Elliot, he got no closer then anyone else who's set a trap in that warehouse for them. And that was just because he sent a lot of thugs at them.
And let's speak of his thugs. He clearly pays low prices for them, as not one of them stopped admiring Elliot's hair to just shoot him. Even the Busey, stopped to chat, rather than shooting him, then gloating.
His criminal empire fell apart pretty quickly, given his rep. Apparently he had less of a fortress and more of a jenga tower.
Was that the point? That master-criminals are ultimately just that, criminals? Was it to play against assumptions of what a crime lord in the LeverageVerse would be? Did you just get tired of the concept (for example, Nate poking at him with a stick for 6 months was more poke, 5 + months later, poke poke.) and want to end it?
I really enjoyed the episode. I'm not going to ask you where things are going for Nate & Sophie as the answer is obviously, "Wait and See."
Question: My impression from looking at that last shot was that Nate & Sophie were rather surprised themselves to be waking up with other. Am I correct that we are seeing the "OMG! What have we done?" moment?
Final note regarding that scene: Whoever set it up did a great job camouflaging Gina under those sheets. Even going back and looking at it, I couldn't tell she was under there. When I saw Nate, I was expecting to see Sophie walk in from the bathroom or some such instead of emerge from the sheets.
Have you read the messages? There's a bunch of people here who apparently think that before joining the team, Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies.
@ Ashely en re the filming of the hotel being the Governor ...
When the boys are boarding the elevator to go down and join the party in the first part, the sign behind them proclaims The Governor Hotel. And you're right, it does look just familiar enough to probably be the same hotel.
@Video Beagle, "Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies."
Which one: Rainbow Dash or Applejack. Initially I'd be inclined to think Rainbow Dash, but she's a but of a loose canon. That's why I think Applejack: country accent, cowboy had, level headed, but adventurous.
wow! thanx for the great finale..i really really love it..
im just puttin things together,
1)since Gen. Flores called Eliot "commander", does it mean that they were in the Navy? and it also hints why Eliot is familiar with ex-marine knife fightin style..
2)a follow-up question to the Rashomon job regarding the monkey, does it mean the the retrieval of the dagger came before Eliot was "arrested" in a flashback in the two horse job?
@David Hunt - it's actually not that hard for a woman as slender as Gina Bellman to hide under multiple sheets/blankets/quilts. Lay very still & quiet and let the blankets fall randomly so they are not in a recognizably human. People aren't likely to see what they aren't looking for.
Eliot might have noticed, it's part of his job, but he wouldn't comment - he respects the Boss' privacy, as long as it doesn't compromise security.
How much of Eliot's happiness in that last scene came from putting some of his demons to rest, in terms of taking out Moreau? As opposed to just general happiness that they survived?
I'm asking because over the course of the season, Eliot seemed to be increasingly angry, impatient, frustrated - just generally seemed not to enjoy working with the others anymore at all. That last scene last night, though, was vintage S1-S2 Eliot - the grinning, the gentle teasing of Hardison, the general happiness. Was it supposed to seem like such a tremendous weight had been lifted for the character?
@ jaredrussel: Also, since Batman doesn't like or use guns, does that make Eliot more of a Deathstroke, Taskmaster, or Weapon X?
We already knew Eliot was Wolverine, too. ... Although he seemed to be a bit more like Weapon X, yes.
@ Anon: Did I miss it or did we not get Sophie's real name?
--- I think it's Catherine. Perhaps not her "real" real name, but in the King George Job her "aunt" called her that. It's probably as real as any of her other names.
Line of the season - "24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority."
---- Or, at least, Hardison's line of the year. There are too many great ones that would get angry if we ignored them.
Goran Visnijc was a wonderful choice to play Moreau. Elisabetta Canalis was a miss - she couldn't hold her own with Hutton. Allowing her to work in Italian for the finale was an improvement over her tortured, wooden English.
---- Ummm ... I'm probably the only one who didn't have an issue with Elisabetta Canalis. Goran Visnjic was brilliant and inspired as Moreau, but I also liked the nameless Italian. Sure, she probably could have done better than she did, but that doesn't mean she hit rock bottom with her performance.
LOVED the call back to The Bank Shot Job when Eliot rescues the mother from the meth dealers, she asks who he is and he smiles and says, "Well, ma'am, we'd be the cavalry."
The General was an excellent character as well. We should see more of him, please and thank you. Especially how he was teasing Eliot in that subtle way by calling him "Commander." The looks the others gave him after that ... brilliant.
Have I mentioned lately that I bow to your brilliance?
Oh, and thank you so much for retrieving the human that is Bonanno for the finale ... even if it was just one little scene it was nice to see him again.
Are we ever going to find out what it was that Eliot did for Moreau that was so horrible?
Oh, and I would like to tell you that I began laughing 1) When Parker said she was in the mood for pretzels, and 2) When Sophie appeared in Nate's bed. BEST CLIFFHANGER EVER.
I feel so stupid asking this, but can someone explain what happened with Hardison in the pool? How was it that he said he got extra air (something about the chair) and how did the keys eventually get to him? Did Moreau throw them in after he'd verified Elliot?
I love Hardison, and I think Aldis does a great job with him, but something about his anger in the park just didn't work. I think it might just be that he was out-acted by Kane. It just didn't feel like the right level and intensity of anger for someone who just found out Elliot knew Moreau and almost let him drown.
One more - they didn't have their coms in through most of these two episodes? Did I miss something?
I'm trying to figure out the path Eliot took in life.
We know he joined the military young, and went abroad. I'm thinking his military career probably moved into black ops, covert ops, and that brought him into contact with Damien Moreau. Eliot either quit working for the government to work for Moreau, or earned a burn notice and was taken on by Moreau.
He worked for Moreau for a time, until he did the "worst thing" he ever did, then left and drifted into professional retrieval, which brought him to Leverage. Do I have the jist of it?
And I wonder how Parker would actually take Eliot's actions if he did tell. If it's true he killed a kid (or kids) she may not forgive him, but I don't know. After Eliot, I always felt Parker was the most physically dangerous, perhaps with the most unsavory past after him.
Because Parker never saw people as something she could empathize with prior to the series start. When making a plan to break into a place and steal something, she likely would have considered a guard simply another component of a security system to be accounted for. And if she couldn't circumvent a guard, she may just disable him/her. And if the rest of the job would take long enough that the guard might recover and sound the alarm, she may have disabled permanently. I'm not sure Parker would have seen that as something wrong then.
She's made huge leaps in the last 3 years, in the Stork Job, The Inside Job, and The Boost Job, she's actually been able to see people as something akin to herself, but I think prior to series start, people were entirely binary to her: Help/Hindrance.
Just look at how startled Archie is when she hugs him at the end of the Inside Job... he's not used to Parker expressing things like affection and care. It's like your dog suddenly talking.
My big question during the park scene was not so much "What was the worst thing Eliot did" as "Which of the team will be the first to ask him about the worst thing he did?"
@VideoBeagle, while some fans do see Eliot through rose-colored glasses, not everyone was curious to know specifics about things Eliot's done because they thought too well of him. As a fan who is not a fangirl, I have a really, really overactive imagination and kind of wanted to know where to cap it. Did he kill one child, one family, or did he gas an entire apartment building? To be honest, I was afraid this episode would be the end of Eliot as a sympathetic character. I'm very, very glad I was wrong.
It may be twisted, but this episode only solidified Eliot as my favorite. I'm a sucker for a good redemption story. If he had no regrets about what he did, it would be different. Then again, like I said, I was already thinking the worst when it came to possible things he's done in the past. This also explains his thing about kids. I knew he wasn't just a softie somewhere deep down--he's working out guilt. It's good to see that paid off. It's good storytelling, and we got those suspicions confirmed without any hand-holding.
By the way, it says a lot for how close the team is that they can hear about Eliot's deliberate withholding of information and past deeds without pitching him out the window.
My read on the pool scene is that Moreau offered Eliot a deal - take out Atherton, and Moreau would let Eliot's "client" into the auction, which also means letting Hardison up out of the pool.
Once Eliot agreed, Moreau or one of his goons tossed the keys down.
Which begs the question - why did Moreau need Eliot to take out Atherton when he has a ginormous goon squad who could have done that and shot Eliot and Hardison right there, but then, that might have required exiting the fun train before the Awesomely Ridiculous warehouse shootout in which dozens of goons were so blinded by Eliot's perfect hair that they could not defend themselves. So I'm not gonna go there.
I like the little bits we know about him, and that he's looking to be a better person...maybe to be the person he thinks he'd have been had someone like him put him on the right path (ala his actions in Tap Out or Underground). As Rogers has said...Elliot is Batman...Batman's motivation is to keep what happened to him from happening to others*.
And knowing exactly what he did will either be too little to satisfy what we know and think (really? That's it?) , or too much (He blew up a convent full of orphaned puppies? Really?)
But call him a woobie...and grrr I'm gonna go all moral event horizon on you.
*Lesser Batman writers think that his motivation is to find his parent's killers. And so they feel he never can do that. That's just dumb, and turns him being heroic to just being the Punisher in a silly outfit.
About the Hardison-in-the-pool scene...I'd like to second or third the request for info about how the keys got to him.
In response to someone's comment above about how Hardison should be more angry with Eliot--I actually liked the scene. A season ago, Eliot would have HAD to jump in and fish Hardison out. But by now, Hardison has had more experience with physical danger, and Eliot can rely more on the hacker to save himself. I thought the scene demonstrated that Eliot can go on with the job and trust Hardison not to be a liability.
But later, why didn't Moreau just kill The Italian outright? He didn't need her alive to trap Eliot and his 'employer' in the warehouse.
@Oona - I think he gave Elliot the hit job to proove he was on the up and up. He had no reason to distrust him at that point. Elliot was a former lieutenant who clearly left on good terms.
I think it wasn't til he noticed the woman who was a decade older than the rest of his girl herd and captured the Italian he twigged that something was going on.
@Video Beagle - my take too. Asking Eliot to take out Atherton was to obtain proof Eliot was 'in', not that he didn't have plenty of other muscle perfectly capable of taking Atherton out. It was a test.
@Oona - you asked earlier about the 'car' being discussed by Eliot and Chapman (not sure on the name - the Busey). I took it, because of the comment about the traffic cams, to be about the car they were in, and said so. Watched it again, and Chapman does say "it's still in Virginia", so it would seem to be that they were talking about the railway car. I'm just not sure why Eliot was asking for clarification on the railway car....
So years ago, I played paintball and airsoft, which admittedly doesn't have the accuracy of real bullets, but I watched a friend of mine run a 30 foot gauntlet with 20 or so real marines and army guys shooting at him and not get hit even once. It was fucking incredible. So for all those people who think the Eliot scene is impossible, I'd respond with "improbable but not impossible." I loved the scene. Even my husband, who's not a big fan, thought it was an awesome combination of spaghetti westerns and video games. Kane did a great job as did the director and all of the techies who made those bullets do what they did. And WOW, he's a fast draw- like Wyatt fucking Earp fast. I guess my only question is what questions do your answers match up to?
@VideoBeagle Thank you so much for saying that. Eliot is not a woobie. Parker's a woobie. Eliot's an atoner.
About the pool scene, I'm pretty sure if Eliot had fished Hardison out prematurely, Moreau would have had them both shot. Eliot knows that in order to get Hardison out alive, he has to play by Moreau's rules. Answer the questions to his satisfaction, and they'll both be fine. Kicking Hardison into the pool was not an execution later aborted, but a way of forcing Eliot to give those answers concisely and quickly. If Moreau hadn't stopped to take a long drink of whiskey, Hardison may not have needed to suck air out of the chair. In other words, Eliot saved Hardison's life. In a manner of speaking. If he'd been honest with the team from the start, Nate probably would have made a different plan that didn't involve, however unwittingly, Hardison getting chucked into a pool.
I love the fact you answered the exact question I asked, no more, no less. There was indeed pretzel follow-up, just not enough of it. Did something happen between Parker and Hardison off-screen that we'll get glimpses of in Season 4? I thought for sure she was going to kiss him in the elevator at the end of the SLJ.
When Season 1 kicked off, there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that Hardison was the computer guy. Parker and Eliot were both shown needing assistance in the computer realm. However, as the seasons have progressed, they've both gotten better at it (especially Parker) and my assumption has always been that Hardison has shown them some tricks. So has no one really returned the favor and taught Hardison how to pick locks?
I adore the big brother/little sister vibe between Eliot and Parker. The park scene was heart-breaking as he told her that he'd be honest, but that he wanted to remain somewhat untarnished in her eyes. Kudos to Christian and Beth for fantastic acting in both eps.
Last question: same airport/hanger as seen in the David Jobs?
I assumed he was talking about the car they were IN. Busey says it will be dumped, along with the gun. And Elliot did specifically mention traffic cameras, which would only be an issue with the car he was in.
That part really didn't make sense to me. Atherton's death will obviously be ruled a homicide, and if there are traffic cameras they can identify Busey and Elliot off of that. I think he was saying that the car is registered in Virginia, and they're going to sink it and the gun, which means the car can't be physically traced and when they run the registration it won't trace to them.
Of course, the show's told us all about corruption and inefficiency in police work, but these things could theoretically be done. Why does Elliot ask at all if the situation isn't fully resolved (the car is gone, the traffic camera pictures aren't)?
@Video Beagle Oh, dear. I don't think it makes one a raving fangirl to think that Eliot - in any incarnation - would draw the line at beating a child to death. Personally I envisioned something more along the lines of blowing up a house or running a car off the road without bothering to check if there were kids present. Either way, I sincerely hope they never show us exactly what Eliot did - at this point, nothing they showed could be as damaging as what we're collectively imagining.
John, I also wanted to mention that I thought that Flores, apart from just being a great standalone character, was used effectively to balance out the darker revelations about Eliot's past. Without taking anything away from Eliot's sins, that friendship reminded us that Eliot, even before donning the white hat, wasn't a heartless psycho. Nicely done.
One more question: With Vittori's whole "Yay, democracy! Boo, corruption!" platform, it seems to me he's going to have a devil of a time explaining to the people why he's keeping one of Ribera's political prisoners in custody. So will Moreau face actual charges in San Lorenzo at some point?
547 comments:
1 – 200 of 547 Newer› Newest»Tease....
I'm first!
Biggest question: how did you arrive upon Goran Visnjic to play Damien Moreau? I think he was the perfect choice, and said so to a friend as soon as I heard about the character at the screening in July.
I also appreciate your letting him use his full-on accent. Any anecdotes to share?
I hope the server here is well prepared....I anticipate major posting here, probably as soon as the opening credits are done rolling.
And as I said on Twitter: "Jesus f'ing Christ - is it 9 o'clock yet??!?!?!"
Seriously! You're an evil, evil man.
You bastards!
All right, it's still 2 hours till showtime, haven't actually seen the finale yet. I'm just getting warmed up.
How long did it take for you to pronounce Goran Visnjic's name correctly? (I still dunno how)
Okay my question is what made you decide to do a huge Eliot story at the season 3 finale? Are you trying to get fans not to like Eliot, or understand him better?
NOOooooooooo!!!
Sorry, just practicing.
@SueN - good one. I have a feeling there might be a lot of those thrown around tonite....
You're funny. Good thing about the holidays - I'm already home so I get to watch East Coast time AND with my Dad (big fan) and not West Coast time! YES!!
Especially for the 4th season... but mostly for tonight: is there any chance of a live stream online...SOMEHOW.... fans here in Germany,etc don't mind staying up for the craziness :D It would be great to have the chance to chat w/ all the Grifters, Masterminds, Hackers, Thieves and Hitters on espacially Twitter while the finale is airing! *pretty please with sacrificial --insert what you would like here-- on top*
Only a hour left to end the torment and we find out who the finale/cliffhanger victim will be this season (assuming its not Nate again) but Sophie or Eliot from the hints...
And will we ever find out why Eliot has such a soft spot for the kids?
I have my own ideas about the finale but it seems as though Moreau shoots Eliot.
you are evil, giving answers before we see anything. and teasing for next season...
To Anon, definately looks like Eliot gets shot or at least shot at in the sneak peek.
Okay really the only thing I want to know is will there be a ConCon II and when is it?????
Now THAT is the way to tease a season finale! Can't wait!
So...the Italian wants to take down the guy who replaced her boyfriend on ER.
Interesting....
Good to see Goran Visnjic in this role. He's my personal choice for Doctor Doom.
Please don't make Eliot a bad guy!!!
Wow....
Ok...so am I getting a Real Genius vibe in the scientists and battery because there's a character named Atherton, or is there a character named Atherton because there's a Real Genius vibe?
Eliot is [was] a bad guy; we just don't know how bad. Love the moment between Eliot and Parker - "Don't ask me that Parker, cause if you ask me, I'm gonna tell you." She nods slightly with what looked like a tear - telling me Parker knows first hand what Eliot is hiding.
We shall caption the commercial break at 9:37 eastern as
Goran: "Up yours, Clooney!"
Well, it's pretty clear what the worst thing Elliot ever did/how bad a man he was, now.
If you don't have it figured it out, think back to the discussion he had in the car with the Busey.
OK - Christian is definitely knocking it out of the park tonight.
Was there any in-story reason for the way The Italian was tied to the chair? As some one far too interested in these things, it seems odd to tape someone to a chair and not gag them the same way.
Was Eliot really prepared to let Hardison die when he was pushed into the pool?
Eliot really is Batman isn't he?
Actually, in this he reminded me more of the Punisher.
48 mins. in - are you fucking kidding me?
Holy fucking shit....and there's still another hour to go?!?!?
Ok...Matrix Elliot...Awesomely Ridiculous? Or Ridiculously Awesome?
Either way, it's time to use the phrase coined during the HOHOHO Job...
NIFTY!
(Nixing Impediments to the Fun Train, Yeah)
SWEET.
PRETZELS!!!!!!!!!
Seriously - how the hell are you going to top this next season? Um, was I the only one turned on watching eliot kick ass?
I don't think that I took a breath during that whole segment. Fuuuck
Gotta say...I was expecting more from the Busey
Video Beagle - I had the same thought for a moment . . . but I went with awesomely ridiculous. When the show takes liberties with style, I'm all for it.
Although he totally stole that line from some movie with Tom Selleck and Alan Rickman.
And I mean awesomely ridiculous in a good way.
I know I'm not alone here when I say we really need more shots of Eliot in a tank top or, better yet, shirtless.
Hey, it's Archie Goodwin!
This got boring real fast.
"Aw hell, it's Damian Moreau."
I missed where he learned Nate's name.
Kinda should have been a big deal...oh well
@Oona - I believe that was Quigley Down Under.
The socio-political satire here is AWESOME.
Any guesses at what the cliffhanger is going to be?
Okay, I think my soul just cracked a little bit...
Did you film portions of "The San Lorenzo Job" back at the Governor again? I saw the signs in "The Big Bang Job", but rooms like Vittorri's campaign HQ and the President's office look like rooms that we used at ConCon. Just wondering...
My soul is made whole again, with extra!
Oh, this is gonna be GOOD!
The Internet is going to BLOOOOW!
Big Bang Job = SO MUCH BETTER than the San Lorenzo Job. Sorry Sophie fans. Eliot wins.
And again I say, SWEET.
Any reason you didn't go with the standard latin sounding country "Val Verde" instead of San Lorenzo? I'd imagine it's licensing or something similar, I was just curious.
@Anon. Rogers doesn't believe in between season Cliffhangers.
Pretty good finale, if I do say so myself.
Any Season Four hints?
re: San Lorenzo Job.
Elliot seemed sorta left out of this one. I mean he was there, but he didn't do much....especially considering he wanted revenge on Moreau at the end of BBJ.
Any reason that bit sort of just got dropped?
Ok....not sure I can formulate a coherent question yet....still processing what I just watched.
I'll just say...well done. VERY well done.
Sorry my question is when dies dvd come out?
Did I miss it or did we not get Sophie's real name?
Nice to see Eliot's smile back at the very end. It was predictable that he had been one of Moreau's guys - you have been making it clear all season that Eliot knew Moreau and how he worked.
Just how much of Moreau's fortune is Parker walking away with?
Interesting commentary on the American political system, when even master thieves and con artists finds politicians to be beneath them.
Line of the season - "24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority."
Goran Visnijc was a wonderful choice to play Moreau. Elisabetta Canalis was a miss - she couldn't hold her own with Hutton. Allowing her to work in Italian for the finale was an improvement over her tortured, wooden English.
Overall, well done. And thank you. Enjoy the holidays.
No real questions, I'm too excited from all the epicness you've blessed us with in the finale. Thank you so much for one wicked finale! It was a nice twist having Eliot be the one in league with the bad guys as opposed to Sophie; was it just so you could have him do that AMAZING battle in the warehouse? :) I'm okay with it as so.
The way the crew wrapped up every episode this season in the finale was great as well as the openned ending for the start of season 4 which will be very interesting to say the least! A fabulous job by everyone, this is certainly the finale where you can sit back and say - "Yes, we did rock it; hardcore!" :)
I have only one question: How the hell are you going to top that?
Loved the It Takes A Thief vibe of the 2nd hour. I kept waiting for Malachi Throne or Robert Wagner to show up or for the SIA to be mentioned.
Also, the final shot, perfect way to end the season.
I need to listen to it again, but the music toward the end of The San Lorenzo Job, when they were putting their plan into motion, was it just me, or did it sound kind of A-Team-y?
Also, since Batman doesn't like or use guns, does that make Eliot more of a Deathstroke, Taskmaster, or Weapon X?
Y'know, I always felt that Eliot was the one character I never really understood. I could never figure out why he's with this crew... why he's so invested in helping them, even when he so clearly is exasperated by them half the time.
Now, I think I get him a bit better. I think I know him as well as I'm going to now.
Christian Kane acted the hell out of The Big Bang Job. And Aldis Hodge upped his game right along with him in his outrage at Eliot's secrets.
I'm guessing Nate knows what Eliot had to do to get him and the Italian out of that warehouse, and I really hope he never tells the others.
More thoughts as they come to me.
Loving part 1, so far 1 question since I saw the webchat and know about the moving train...
just how bullet proof are cardboard boxes?
WOW! WOW! WOW! loved it all-especially the "elegant fight scene" with Eliot. Christian knocked it out of the park with this one....it was a thing of beauty.
Dude. Christian Kane was amazing. I actually said outloud "F*CK ME" when he said "tell him Eliot Spencer's here." Holy crud.
That being said, Parker saying pretzels does not equal how long you've been telling us to "wait until the finale" - we don't even get a kiss? Seriously?! Sigh.
I honestly don't know what to ask at this point, since my mind was so blown by the two episodes tonight. It's true, this was the best Eliot fight scene yet (IMO anyway). Christian Kane has always been a great actor, but he outdid himself in that first episode. As for episode two, it was good too, and the end...well I actually didn't see that coming.
I agree, how can you top this?! But I'm sure you'll do your damndest to try in season 4. And I'm sure you will find a way, too.
Major kudos to the whole Leverage team tonight. Can't wait til next summer!!
Okay,it's Official...Eliot has super powers ,right?If not,care to explain how Eliot slowed the bullets down and kept them from hitting him,but killing the thugs?On that note...HOW COULD YOU MAKE ELIOT KILL SOMEONE?!!Yes,we knew he had done bad things before joining the Team.But he was supposed to have changed to non-leathal force right?What is he supposed to have done for Moreau that was so bad?He wouldn't let Parker ask.Loved the BBJ.And I deffinetly agree with the comments on here.We need Eliot in a tank top more or better shirtless. The end of San Lorenzo was shocking to say the least.Sophie and Nate SLEPT TOGETHER?!Loved how they got Moreau taken down also.
Are you kidding me! What about parker and hardison relationship. That's all you give us is that pretzels line. Yes I did soak it up but hey still wanted more. Why was that all you gave us? It's okay you can continue to drag me by my feet from a car and go 90mph. I'll survive! You can horse whip me as well, I'll survive. The scene with Elliot was super phony but it worked cause he's the ultimate warrior. Yeah Bate and Sophie!!! This season is over that sucks! Best show on tv period!!!! When does dvd come out? Best line " I said I don't like guns never said I couldn't use them"
1)Will the public at large ever find out that Vittori and Sophie were not really getting married? I know none of this matters much, but I'm kinda curious.
2)Do you think The Italian will ever appear again ala Bonanno, the FBI guys, Sterling, etc.? Or is she going to dissappear after this season?
3)When was the decision to hook up Nate and Sophie made? Was it at the beginning of the season, or was it more of a last minute thing?
I really loved the finale, and I'm really looking forwards to next season. (I'm guessing it'll be in July like the last two times?) Keep up the good work!
Jarrod: Are you under the impression that Batman isn't an ace shot with guns? Elliot's line about not liking them doesn't mean he can't use them fits Batman, too.
So at the end of Season 2 I asked a lengthy question about Eliot implying that he could get the guys out of the standoff against the Feds, and whether we were supposed to believe Eliot was just superhuman (and follow the principles we'd seen him hold to thus far) or if he was desperate enough to cross a line. Your answer was that it was a spoiler.
So ... I'm assuming this was more or less what you had in mind?
Also, when Eliot asks Nate not to tell the team what he did, and Nate does the jokey "I don't know what you're talking about thing," was that intended as a joke for the audience (in which case it didn't work for me, but it was about the only thing that didn't), or was it another installment in By the Way, Nate Ford's a Dick?
Holy shit, you guys surpassed yourselves. Breathtaking, game-changing, nail-biting...How the hell are you ever going to top this? (I'm going to assume that is one of the questions answered by "you'll see next year".) And, hey, you paid attention to all three main pairings - Nate/Sophie, Pretzels, Eliot/Righteous Violence. Awesome!
Q: I would have watched two straight hours of Moreau and Eliot facing off. Sorry, not a question, just...damn, that scene by the pool was fantastic. You could feel the history there. Kudos all around.
Q: Was Moreau fooled for a second by Hardison's accent?
Q: Who is the warehouse massacre going to bother more in the long run: Nate, Eliot, or neither? It clearly cost Eliot to be that man again, but Nate's never even been tangentially responsible for a death (excluding his feelings of responsibility for Sam). Is he really okay with it because they were bad guys?
Q: How much of the campaign scam did Nate have planned before they got to San Lorenzo, and how much was developed on the fly? He never seemed out of control, but a lot of the key elements seemed to come together on the fly (Sophie jumping in as the girlfriend, Hardison and the mass emails).
Q: NATE AND SOPHIE. FINALLY. That was unexpected and completely delightful. At what point in the season did you know that would be the last shot of the finale?
Thank you all so much for a fantastic season and a superlative finale. Can't wait for Season 4!
In "The Big Bang Job" when Eliot's in the car and about to "kill" General Abertan he mentions something about a car. I didn't really understand that bit about the car still being in Virginia and then going to get dumped.
What car is getting dumped out at sea?
Oh My.... I really Really need my very own Eliot!!! The more intense he is the sexier he is.
I loved that Christian got the Quigely line. It worked for the Character and it was cool that Christian got to deliver a tom Seleck line since he did do a western with the man.
How awesome was the Name drop. Me? I'm Eliot Spencer.
I know I maybe...should.. see Eliot in a new darker light after what is hinted at but I just can't see him as anything other than a Hero. I shall use the power of the fun train to derail any and all bad thoughts.
I loved the scene in the park when He asked Parker Not to Ask questions.
Okay, At the warehouse now and I have to know Just how did you guys come up with THAT Scene and how long did Christian Work on it to get it to come out that awesome??!!! Because Seriously...Seriously How are you ever gonna top That????!!!!
So we got to see Eliot use guns and then we got to see Eliots Guns... You are really trying to kill me here aren't you??
Then after the Emotional Angst and guns you give us Eliot with a Puppy. And the reveal that he'd never leave a member of the team behind, not that i ever doubted that because he is the Calivery after all :) but Head desk,It's a fan girls dream!
LOVED THE ENDING... The only thing that would have made it better would have been if he's actually seen something walked out of the room with a horrified look on his face and gotten to deliver the line to parker again.. Don't ask me parker Cause if you do I'll tell ya so don't ask me. LOL
I loved Every second of these ep's
I can not waituntil the new season starts. Crossing my fingers that TNT increases the ep count!
Oh did you see the Closer stole Nates line for the promo they were running. I'm sorry but KS just can't pull off the 'Wait for it."
@Daisy - Eliot was talking about all the traffic cameras in DC - meaning that he knew the car he and Moreau's man were in would be picked up on the cameras. So, he's trying to find out how the car will be disposed of so it can't be tracked. Moreau's guy tells him it will be put on a ship and then dumped out at sea...and the gun along with it.
@Video Beagle, I suppose if you look at that scene in a Final Crisis sort of way, Eliot using those guns mirrors Batman shooting Darkseid. Viewing these last two episodes as Final Crisis explains why Eliot took a back seat to the story of Nate and Hardison emailing out an anti-anti-life equation to help the people of San Lorenzo sing out and defeat Mandrakk...uh, Moreau.
Although, killing Sophie to win a presidential election makes me think more of Transmetropolitan than Final Crisis.
Daisy Bookworm said...
In "The Big Bang Job" when Eliot's in the car and about to "kill" General Abertan he mentions something about a car. I didn't really understand that bit about the car still being in Virginia and then going to get dumped.
What car is getting dumped out at sea?
I could be wrong but I think they are talking about the Railroad "Car" that the device is in.
Medrawt: Seriously? Nate said "I don't know what you're talking about."
He's telling Elliot it's his secret alone. It's not something Nate will discuss with anyone..he won't even bring it up with Elliot.
*********
Right before the gun-fu scene, Elliot takes off his jacket and suddenly has a shoulder holster on. Scene cut for time?
**********
"Aviation grade lubricant."
@Video Beagle, I bet he already had it on, just in case he had to use guns...he is Batman, after all.
Relevant CAPTCHA: pyrit
I'll come back with questions later but wow! What an incredible two episodes. Goran was flawless as Moreau. Perfect choice!
@Jarod - that was my take on the shoulder holster too - Eliot knows what he may be against, going into a building that Moreau has sent him to. He went in prepared to do what he might have to, even as much as it might be something he wouldn't want to.
Jason Bourne versus Eliot Spencer? I genuinely don't know who'd win.
I don't care how many colors you burn through for revisions, how much your liver hates you, or how many psuedo-cardiac events you have over actors doing risky stunts (on and off screen)---you can't tell me you don't have the best job ever, John Rogers.
You writers rock fully.
And I say this even though I still don't have a clue what Sohpie's real name is---unless it's the severeaux part that's false, and the Sophie that's true. I suppose a rose by any other name . . . wait! Nah . . .
Video Beagle -
No, I understood the dialogue. What I meant was that, given how serious Eliot is about this stuff, the way the line was delivered seemed inappropriate to me unless the intent was that it was Nate being a jerk (which he is from time to time).
It reminded me of, say, the scene when Clooney and Pitt go recruit Elliott Gould in Ocean's Eleven and Gould says "I still owe you for that time with the thing in the place." "I don't know what you're talking about." "I've never been to Belize!"
i.e., it seemed lighthearted to me, and I didn't think it was a lighthearted moment; it felt like Nate was sort of brushing off that Eliot did something he had a real problem with. So my question was whether the intention was for Nate to be inappropriately cavalier, or if this was just a case where my sense of the tone was out of step with the show's.
Oh, my God, I don't even …
I think you guys broke me.
I thought CK got to me last year in "Tap Out," but he just gutted in BBJ. I was halfway prepared to find out Eliot knew/had worked for Moreau at some point, considering what he'd been and done before. But the scene in the park, when he had to come clean before the team, oh, man, I just ached for him. And then when I saw him reach for that gun, I swear all the air went out of the room.
But, sweet Jesus, that scene!!! I sense a lot of rewinding/rewatching in my immediate future. (And how much did Kane enjoy getting his Matrix on?)
So, I guess my question (so far) is this: Will what Eliot did in that warehouse have any repercussions next season? For three seasons now, he's been adamant on the "no guns" thing. It's been his code. Yet, for the team, he had to break that code and, essentially, revert to what he was. That's got to cause some damage. Will we see it?
Also, given his "the worst thing I ever did, I did for Damian Moreau" (or words to that effect, is it safe to assume that it's that thing, whatever it was, that caused him to lay down his guns in the first place? If so, how much worse does that make it that now, again because of Moreau, he had to pick them up again?
IOW, just how badly have y'all twisted up Eliot, and will we see the fallout?
Oh, and BONANNO! Thank you. *g*
Okay, the season is over. There was just something a bit off in the pacing of some of the 3rd season episodes, including The Big Bang Job. It's funny... my first exposure to the show was the last 15 minutes of The Inside Job followed by The Scheherazade Job, and it hooked me enough to get the Season 1 and 2 DVDs, which I DEVOURED and loved totally. However, a lot of Season 3 was not up to the standard of the first two in my opinion - and that of some friends whom I tried to get interested in the show, but were turned off by the uneven quality of Season 3 eps. Others' mileage certainly will vary, but that's my take.
That said, I was delighted to see a comedic final episode instead of another big, blockbustery, serious ep as in the first two years. At first I didn't even realize that it was going to be played that broadly; it snuck up on me. But it was fun. Now for the questions. I actually have a bunch this time. These are not in episode order!
1) Others have asked, but I'll enumerate it: When did Moreau learn Ford's name? And since he knew it, it almost weakened his final line of Who ARE you guys?
2) Won't Sophie's face be all over international media, making it easy to recognize her, even if they don't quite know WHO she is? Even CNN (thank you, corporate conglomerations) showed it, I think.
3) WHY did Eliot come running through the hangar toward Moreau? Did he think Moreau was going to shoot Nate? It seemed a dangerous and odd thing to do.
4) When Nate let Moreau get on the plane at the end of The Big Bang Job, he said he had plans for him. Was having him permanently incarcerated in San Lorenzo the plan, or did that come later?
5) And if it was the plan, why did he have to beg the team to help him do it?
6) And if Moreau was as dangerous as we'd been led to believe all season, would he truly have been cowed by U.N. inspectors?
7) Was the parking garage in the beginning of Big Bang the same location used for the hangar at the end, or was it just coincidence that the same green lighting was used in both?
8) Were the parts of the scenes facing the inside of the hangar (the green area) filmed at a separate location from the parts looking out from the hangar at the plane? The latter shots looked a bit strange.
9) When are WE going to learn Sophie's real name???
I look forward to Season 4. The ad at the end said Summer; do you have a tentative air date for the premiere yet?
Thanks!
The warehouse scene...AMAZING! I keep replaying it...
Daaaaamn.
Did Beth and Aldis actually jump onto a moving train? Damn. I hope I'm not wrong to be reading a lot into "Pretzels!"
Is Eliot in fact bulletproof? And explosion-proof? What the heck was in that cardboard box, steel plates? I nitpick because I love, and boy, do I love. That scene was fantastic! Kane knocked it out of the park, too.
Can we please keep this emotionally stable and reasonably mature Nate? He's still a right bastard and half-crazy, but I like him better when he's in control of himself.
Sophie just shone in The San Lorenzo Job. And I loved those little smiles she was giving Nate. "Now we're partners. Friends!" Uh-huh. I should've seen that coming. And now that I have seen it, I may be using it as my desktop wallpaper.
I had no idea who Goran Visnjic or Elisabetta Cannalis were before this, so to me they're always gonna be Damien Moreau and The Italian.
Good to see Bonnano again! I wonder if we'll see The Italian again someday.
So Eliot... did THAT, and the team stole a country. How the heck are you going to top THIS?
wv: dewisp - what de will is o'
BBJ:
1. Atherton made me think of Atherton Wing from Firefly "Shindig"
2. Kane did a great job when he asked Parker not to ask him what Eliot did. They were both on the verge of tears. Oh, my Eliot just became the woobie!
3. Knew it would be bad when Eliot picked up the gun. Plus, Eliot in the warehouse = River Tam
4. Liked Visnjic as Moreau
5. Kane needs to wear that shade of blue more often
6. LIked Nate's tiny smirk at the end of the episode when the Italian said our team couldn't get him in his country.
Question: we got Pretzels. was that because the excitement of escapade got Parker going?
SLJ:
1. More of Eliot's background.
2. Loved Sophie teaching Vittori about confidence and connecting with people.
3. And Sophie steps in and wins the election!
4. When Rebecca got shot, I was pretty sure our team was behind it. But it was still fun to see the reveal.
5. The guy playing Vittori made me think of Zachary Levi.
6. I appreciate that you finally got Nate and Sophie together, at the very end. but why no shirtless Nate?
Okay, now I want to know when the DVDs come out.
You really know how to keep us all hanging!
Thanks for doing the show, the Q and As and the DVD commentary.
@Medrawt, I'm with Video Beagle in that I didn't get any sense of dickishness from Nate in his response to Eliot. I've watched it twice now, and all I got was Nate assuring Eliot that what happened in that warehouse will remain Eliot's story to tell.
It might have seemed a bit offhanded, but the team was right there, and any other kind of response might have piqued their curiosity. My feeling was that Nate was just reassuring Eliot in the quickest and least obvious manner he could.
You've been bottling up an Eliot gun fight scene pretty much since day one, haven't you? Well, let it never be said that you guys don't commit...
Really, really fantastic couple of episodes - there was something for everyone. For all the great special effects and the lovely shipper moments, though, I thought the best aspect across the board was the acting - these guys are the best ensemble at using stillness that I've ever seen. There were several beats of silence and space that were just breathtaking (especially the Moreau/Eliot standoff while Hardison was in the pool and the team's beats as Hardison dropped each line about Eliot and Moreau in the scene after), above and beyond the great individual and team moments throughout.
I have just a few questions, and then I have to go watch the episodes again.
1) Why did Eliot engage the guys in the warehouse after Nate and the Italian had cleared out, instead of just getting away himself? It looked like he was near the door they used, but then he turned back and took Moreau's guys out. It was an amazing scene, but it seemed like Eliot might've been able to get out of the situation without so much bloodshed if he wanted. Unless he thought taking out the guys was the only way to keep them from coming after the team.
2) What was Moreau's reason for shooting the Italian? He didn't appear to be aiming to kill. Was he just trying to slow down Nate and Eliot?
3) Where was San Lorenzo? I'd like to go there for vacation - the overhead coastal shots were gorgeous.
Thanks so much for a fantastic Season 3. It's been wonderful. Oh, one more! Is there a definite date for the first episode of Season 4?
@Medrawt - I know it's a matter of interpretation, but I have to agree with Video Beagle and Sue N - I think it was just Nate's way of saying, and indicating, it was a done deal, a closed matter - and he would never bring it up again.
And like Sue N said, the rest of the team was walking up - it wasn't like Nate could make a big dramatic moment out of it to reassure Eliot - he was just trying to make it look like he and Eliot were just talking.
I liked the call back to Eliot's intro in the first episode when Moreau mentioned Belgrade, Serbia. Also had extra meaning knowing that Visnjic served in the Croatian army against the Serbs...
After wrenching finales the past two years, it's so awesome for the team to be unabashadly successful and together this time. Great stuff, from the Eliot action to the awesome con in the second.
It's also nice after so much Sophie-Nate angst and uncertainty to see them as equals and together in a funny, lighthearted way. I don't know if I loved the ending more for the surprise of it or the great "what the hell did we do" looks they exchanged.
QUESTION: Can we get more fun and less angst from them in Season 4 - even if it is a brilliant mistake, it can be a fun brilliant mistake right?
Overall, I really think you took the show to a new level tonight, both with the complexity of the action sequence and the satire in the end. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it had all the usual Leverage-y goodness but was sharper and more sophisticated, too.
QUESTIONS: How would you compare this ep to others you've written? I know you said it was your most cynical, but did you see any other differences in tone between this ep and others you've written?
Is the sharper/more cynical tone something that you'll try to shift more towards in Season 4 or is that the kind of thing you can't/don't really plan out that depends more on each individual script or something else?
Have a great holiday! Great season!
Whose idea was it to use a toilet as a communication device? That was funny, and a really good idea.
Nate actually looked nervous a couple times here. Nothing sells a con as *this is really dangerous and we may be over our heads* more than Hutton just stammering a little and swallowing hard. Has anyone told Tim Hutton what a great actor he is? He should win an award or something. They have awards for that, right?
Yeah, I didn't see any dickishness in Nate's reply. I like the idea that even though he knows what happened, he'll pretend it didn't because Eliot would prefer Nate's image of him not to take that aspect of him into account.
In a similar vein, I took Parker's nod less as a sign that she has a particularly good inkling of what Eliot's done, and more as a "You're right, I really don't want to know" kind of thing. Of course she's not an idiot, but I think that because even more than most people Parker operates with a very carefully constructed personal version of "reality", having Eliot's past [mis]deeds put into clear sentences would do particular damage to her "big brother" image of him. Or in other words, I think she can deal with the abstract notion of Eliot-as-Very Bad Man, but she wouldn't have wanted to see that warehouse. She wouldn't want to be afraid of him in that way.
In any case, let me just join the chorus noting that Mr. Kane acted the HELL out of Big Bang. And Ms. Riesgraf, too, in that particular scene, saying so little but conveying so much.
I really liked the little detail of a big puddle of aviation grade lubricant facilitating Eliot's Big Moment, rather than having him just run that gauntlet. I realize that particular "realism" wasn't a goal in that scene, but I appreciated that gesture nonetheless. That, and the visibility of criss-crossing bullet trails, which I took as encouraging us to infer that friendly fire was part of Eliot's plan. Even if that wasn't the intention, I'm going with Rogers' rule of assume-whatever-is-most-compelling-for-you; I like the idea that Eliot's Big Moment wasn't just showcasing his sheer destructive potential but also illustrating his concern with setting up the battlefield in one's favor as much as possible, and his ability to do so.
But was anyone else just the tiniest bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Samurai Eliot?
Pool scene was great. Wondering if Eliot would "break character" and go in after Hardison had me in suspense as much as wondering what, exactly, Eliot's Big Moment was going to be.
Also, I was glad someone got in a "You're adorable" this season.
@Markz:
Eliot went running through the hangar toward Moreau to protect Nate. It's what he does. We've seen him attempt to throw himself between Nate/the team and armed threats several times now.
And when Nate said, "I've got plans for you," I think he was talking to Eliot rather than Moreau.
I'm gonna break with the general thread and say that while I loved a lot of these 2 eps, some parts fell flat, mostly the Warehouse scene.
Elliot's first on-screen kill is given no impact until after the fact, Elliot 2-fisted pistols, which almost no experienced gunman does, and then you went matrix on us. Elliot shouldn't be dodging bullets. He's good, but at some point it breaks suspension of disbelief, and that did it.
Me again. Had to mention how much I loved the "shallow graves" exchange between Nate and Sophie, and her knowing little smile at him. That brief conversation showed how they really are partners now.
Also, I noticed that Gina did her death scene with her eyes open. That's hard! Very convincing, but ouch. Can't blink for long minutes. I was impressed.
Also also, I liked that Nate ended this season saying "I'm a thief", too.
@Sue N - That's what I thought the first time I heard it, that Nate said to Eliot "I have other plans for you". Upon listening to it a 2nd time, he says "I have other plans for him".
I think at that point Nate knew they were going to have to take him down in San Lorenzo....where there's no extradition.
That gunfight in the warehouse was a deliberate Equilibrium homage, wasn't it? The moment Eliot stood up and cocked both guns in one smooth cross-arm motion, I said, "he's about to go all Grammaton Cleric on their asses, isn't he?"
And sure enough, he did.
Half the time I see that leather band on Eliot's left wrist, I come away thinking it's a Vortex Manipulator.
"Uh oh"????? "Uh oh"!!!!!!!!!
Best. "Cliffhanger." Ever.
Seriously, I think I'm in love with you and the rest of the writing team. And the directors. ... And the lighting guys. ... And the rest of the crew.
Nate's reveal of how they stole the election was inspired, as was Eliot's relationship with the General.
Thank you for writing this show, and especially thank you for these three winter episodes. I consider them all a Christmas present.
Loved the 'Pretzels' scene, Beth sold that line to me.
Yet, when she came out of the steam pipe she said it was a "dry heat" nice nod to aliens, but never had dry steam before.
Right, few Qs
1st, whilst you did show them in bed, did they actually?
2nd, back to pretzels, I know you said that the relationship would take time, but if we get more payouts like that I'll be happy for at least another season. Did Beth and Aldis do the bridge jump or the running and jumping along the top of the train?
3rd, are there any ideas that you personally have been waiting multiple seasons to do left? or have the characters evolved to a point where original ideas(as in ones from pilot/Season1) just don't fit them anymore?
Keep up the damn fine work Jon.
Well, you've done it. None of us will believe Eliot can be in physical peril again. Ever. Good thing he's one of the good guys now! It was extremely satisfying to get an answer about why he stays with the group, and it was a much, much better answer than I expected. Even more telling than his secret connection with Moreau was his precarious handling of his personal relationship with the rest of the crew. Now I think I understand--they're not just his friends, are they?
(That was a rhetorical question. The rest aren't.)
The San Lorenzo Job felt odd, since it was lighter than Big Bang and Moreau was much more of a human being than a criminal superpower. Normally, the second half of the finale would be the action-packed, intense half. Why the switch-up?
It'll be really difficult to up the threat level next season. You've already taken down the big bad of the crime world, a man so dangerous that the aforementioned invincible thief is visibly scared of him. Are you thinking you'll lighten up and play season 4 more like previous seasons, or will you rise to the challenge (thereby kicking the challenge's ass)?
Wow, what a ride!!! Despite the fact that I had to use a construction crane to suspend my disbelief during that Matrix scene in the warehouse, I loved watching Kane kick butt! The rest of the actors knocked these two episodes out of the park, as well.
As for folks asking about what Eliot did before he joined the team, what about 'hitter = hit man' do you not get?! He's moved past that in his life and obviously didn't want to return to it unless there was no other option, but it's apparent he thought taking up arms and killing was the only way to keep Moreau's men from coming after Nate and the Italian. I just hope he doesn't beat himself up over it and that the team doesn't hold it against him if/when they find out. As for Nate's words to Eliot, I got the feeling he meant he'd keep Eliot's secret.
Questions for Mr. Rogers:
Is there a reason behind giving the code name "Ram's Horn" to the EMP bomb? Is it something to do with a Shofar (ritual horn) or possibly with the line in the old folk song/poem "Lover's Taskes"? Pardon, I home in on little details like that and the curiosity kills me. :-p
The General addressed Eliot as Commander Spencer. Was that his rank in the US Navy (Commander is a Naval rank), a rank he held in a company of freelancers (mercs), rank in some nameless Government Agency, or rank he may have held in the security forces of San Lorenzo (honorary or otherwise)?
Will we learn more about Eliot's military background in season 4? The stiffness with which he took and held the position of "At Ease" while addressing the General was a dead giveaway (as was the General addressing him as Commander).
Lastly, thank you to you, Mr. Rogers, and all of the folks who bring us "Leverage"! I consider it 'must see TV' and one of the most entertaining series on the tube these days. I'm really looking forward to what you come up with in season 4 and, hopefully, far beyond that as well!
Very good job on both episodes. You took what seemed like pretty fantastic stories and made them seem and feel feasible.
The thing I loved the most was how you demonstrated why this team sticks together, it's not just because they love doing what they do, it's not just because they like helping people, it's because they're a family who loves and cares about each other.
The big question now is, where do you go from here? Because now that you've had Nate deal with his personal demons for two seasons and then have the team take down a major financier of evil while stealing a country along the way, you just have to wonder.
So now they're just going to go back to Boston and keep helping people, obviously, but what else is there going to be to it?
@Tori Angeli, "None of us will believe Eliot can be in physical peril again."
Some of us never believed this in the first place, but for those of you who did, I welcome you to Post-modern Story Telling.
Oh god. I haven't read any comments yet here so I don't know if I'm the only one thinking this but all I can say is that Amy Berg would not have done it this shitty. I knew things would go downhill for Nate/Sophie when she left. Should N/S shippers thank you for this? Did you expect to make anyone happy with this? I really wonder.
And another thing. Why is all the violence, beating the crap out of people as well as using guns, okay to be shown on screen and actually wasting several minutes on it but we don't get to see a simple love scene with some kissing between two characters who love each other? We only got a few seconds of... not much really. We've been waiting for this for 3 seasons, and that's all? You glorify the violence, focus on that a lot, yet you totally diminish the significance of Nate and Sophie
finally getting together, it's like 'oh btw. they had sex.' The end. Needless to say this could've been done SO much better. I guess that wasn't your intention. Thank you for adding that drunken element. That really made things so much better. *sarcasm* Another one of those wasted N/S opportunities this season. Can we expect about the same of their relationship next season? Off-screen and extremely underwhelming? Come on, put as much effort into N/S as you do into all the violent elements of this show. I'd think it would be obvious what should get more attention.
I really expected more after the Christmas episode and what happened there between them. And still no real name, didn't you say a few blogs ago that Sophie will tell her real name to Nate? What was that about?
I'm really getting tired of how this show treats Nate and Sophie. Season 4 won't be so hard to wait for after all. If that was at all your intention with the "cliffhanger". It didn't work with this viewer.
Why is it so hard to make fans happy for showrunners, I wonder. You failed with this one.
Awesome explosion at the beginning!
Kick-ass rescue by the team.
A Nate/Sophie client meeting, FINALLY!!
"Let's go steal the Department of Defense."
Great outfit on Beth.
It's the Governor Hotel! Hell YEAH!!
Eliot gave his real name? WTF?
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
"I'm the stick."
So glad that neither Nate or Eliot got shot.
Chris in a tank top. OMG!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I love it when a plan comes together. Thanks for explaining how the other jobs tied into this one.
San Lorenzo episode looks more like a movie on TV. Interesting.
What PDX locations were used? The San Lorenzo buildings are so pretty!
Tim looks really good in hats.
Aww! It's Cinnamon!!
Ooh, I recognize the building from Fairy Godparents Job!
Cool phone delivery system.
"Age of the Geek baby!" For the win!
I think Hardison & Eliot just "killed" Sophie!
"I'm a thief."
"You know what I have? I have a 24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority" :D :D
Parker & the gold bars. So cute!
Nate & Sophie OMG!!! Finally!!!
BTW, I'm very amused that the random verification code that I'm looking at is "hotornie".
ok 3 questions:
1. What is Eliot's biggest regret bout working for Moreau.
2. How the **** did ya'll shoot the warehouse scene. Man that was the best scene I've ever seen outside a movie. *ie Matrix*.. Wow is all I can say!
3. What would it take to come work for you as a runner or assistant this next season.. I'm dead serious bout wanting to learn from the best. Cheers!
First of all,
OH MY GOD!!!
You just were right in saying it would be the best finale so far. Gorgeous, all of it was perfection.
Eliot's scene was amazing. How long did that sequence take?
i seriously did not see that one coming. It was amazing.
The train scene was amazing too. PRETZELS! :)
Are we going to find out what Eliot did for Moreau?
I'm afraid to know because the look on his face was tell enough that it was a very bad thing.
FINALLY!! Nate/Sophie. I was wondering when that was going to happen.
I can't wait for Next Season.
Thank you and Dean and EVERYONE for bringing us this great show every week. I've loved it since the very beginning and i don't see myself ever stopping :)
Thank you again :)
@Anon whining about how "Nate and Sophie are treated". Grow up and sign in and post with an ID.
@Old_Warhorse: I know...BBJ lays out what Elliot use to do and pretty much spells out what unforgivable thing he did.
To quote Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series....Fangirls ruin everything.
Awesome explosion at the beginning!
Kick-ass rescue by the team.
A Nate/Sophie client meeting, FINALLY!!
"Let's go steal the Department of Defense."
Great outfit on Beth.
It's the Governor Hotel! Hell YEAH!!
Eliot gave his real name? WTF?
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
"I'm the stick."
So glad that neither Nate or Eliot got shot.
Chris in a tank top. OMG!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I love it when a plan comes together. Thanks for explaining how the other jobs tied into this one.
San Lorenzo episode looks more like a movie on TV. Interesting.
What PDX locations were used? The San Lorenzo buildings are so pretty!
Tim looks really good in hats.
Aww! It's Cinnamon!!
Ooh, I recognize the building from Fairy Godparents Job!
Cool phone delivery system.
"Age of the Geek baby!" For the win!
I think Hardison & Eliot just "killed" Sophie!
"I'm a thief."
"You know what I have? I have a 24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority" :D :D
"We'd be the cavalry." WOO!!!
Parker & the gold bars. So cute!
Nate & Sophie OMG!!! Finally!!!
Awesome explosion at the beginning!
Kick-ass rescue by the team.
A Nate/Sophie client meeting, FINALLY!!
"Let's go steal the Department of Defense."
Great outfit on Beth.
It's the Governor Hotel! Hell YEAH!!
Eliot gave his real name? WTF?
Chris & Aldis in a room full of half naked women, I'm sure they enjoyed that day at "work".
Totally don't remember Governor having a pool. How did I miss this?
Eliot KNOWS Moreau!!! Holy crap!!
Brain is exploding cuz Eliot is having a conversation w/ Moreau while Hardison is dying!!! OMG!
Love the "Don't ask me Parker" conversation.
Glad Eliot didn't use a gun. Glad the guy wasn't really dead.
Sophie's funny as the grieving widow. Cool that Gina showed her change out of character like in Juror #6.
Cool that Hardison had the general's ID. Uh oh, he's gonna get caught! Phew, so glad they switched the IDs.
Bomb's gone! Oh no! I smell a trap!
Parker likes Sophie's driving. LOL!
Love the Hardison/Parker sequence on the train. "THis is why I use a tazer." PRETZELS!!
Wow, the gun battle literally has me shaking! I can barely type now & I see Chris is a whole new way. Love the showdown slide sequence. Now I understand why Chris hurt so much after that. Amazing work! A little scary seeing Eliot kill guys.
The airline hangar is a nice throwback to First David Job.
"I'm the stick."
So glad that neither Nate or Eliot got shot.
Chris in a tank top. OMG!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
I love it when a plan comes together. Thanks for explaining how the other jobs tied into this one.
San Lorenzo episode looks more like a movie on TV. Interesting.
What PDX locations were used? The San Lorenzo buildings are so pretty!
Tim looks really good in hats.
Aww! It's Cinnamon!!
Ooh, I recognize the building from Fairy Godparents Job!
Cool phone delivery system.
"Age of the Geek baby!" For the win!
I think Hardison & Eliot just "killed" Sophie!
"I'm a thief."
"You know what I have? I have a 24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority" :D :D
"We'd be the cavalry." WOO!!!
Parker & the gold bars. So cute!
Nate & Sophie OMG!!! Finally!!!
Another pair of fantastic episodes and a great way to end the season. Drinks and Cool Points all around!
Question: Was the hangar in the Big Bang Job the same one from the First David or do they just look really, really similar?
Question: We do get to find out Sophie's real name right? Right? Or did it get said/mentioned in the finale and I just missed it?
Anywho, another fantastic ending. Can't wait for season 4
FUCKING AWESOME seeing Eliot with guns. But back to no guns, now, please. Or else it wouldn't be a treat! I didn't have a problem seeing him kill bad guys. Just makes him that much more dangerous/sexier.
Is Sophie/Gina pregnant? Many of us commented on what looked like a baby bump.
You really got me at the end. I couldn't tell the others in the chat room for fear of ostracism, but I fully expected that fucking Italian to pop up in the bed! LOL!
The Stainless Steel Rat For President.
Not a slight or insult. I think you did it better ;).
Holy crap, you guys! Holy crap! That was AMAZING!!
Questions:
1) When does Eliot Spenser get his own big-screen movie? "The Retrievalist" - I'd pay extra to see that film!
2) How dangerous was it for the actors/stunt-people to film on top of the moving train?
3) After they blew up the EMP bomb, did Parker ever get those pretzels she was hungry for?
4) How are you guys so awesome?
Thanks for a great season and a fantastic season finale! And thanks for this blog and answering all our questions after every episode. I am looking forward to Season 4 this summer.
@Video Beagle What does it matter how I sign in. None of us know each other anyway. The point is what I've written. You're focusing on the irrelevant part.
I miss the really meaningful scenes between Nate and Sophie, something not rushed, not about the cons, when I felt the writer really cared about them as a couple and each as a separate character, where we would learn new things about them. I don't feel we're getting that anymore (her real name, something more about their past, where they are now, there was nothing only teases, nothing definite), I did in season 1 and 2. Could this ever be brought back to what it was?
Was the San Lorenzo Job shot to look like a BBC program or happy accident? The look reminded me of the look and colors of Doctor Who, especially the scenes from parliment. Thanks for another wonderful season, awesome!!!
How did you decide A) to have Eliot in a shoot out B)to give it a Matrix feel and C) to have Eliot without a doubt kill someone with a gun at the end?
Also will we ever learn exactly what he did for Moreau? Because Kane acted the hell out of that and blew me away. The subtle nuances he gave when telling the others about his past with Moreau and his begging Parker not to ask, was amazing. Beautiful writing and amazing acting.
Loved it! A really great finale!
That great gun battle was so much Matrix-like :-)
The character had to have so much luck not to get hurt in that battle – a bit unreallistic but I liked it.
How did you came up with the idea that Elliot should use the guns not his hands?
Will Elliot tell us what he had to do for Monreau?
Is Hardison really only 24? – I'm feeling sooo old ;-)
On the DVD will we see some outtakes?
Thanx a lot for that finale.
Can't wait for the next season!
I've gotta echo Old_Warhorse for just a sec; all season long I've been finding it hard to believe that anyone could still be unclear on what Eliot's previous criminal life entailed.
And on that note, I've never been much for Twitter campaigns, but if anyone were to try getting Sylvester Stallone's Twitter attention with a hashtag along the lines of #ChristianKaneforTheExpendables2, you could count me in.
So very much to love, way too much to cover all the great individual moments. So just a couple of things noted, and only one real question.
Personally, given the trajectory of previous seasons, I think it seems inevitable that Sophie and Nate would *both* have to get drunk in order to move past that last barrier to physical intimacy. And because they are both such complex characters, with such a complex shared history, there's no way they would have developed true intimacy before sleeping together. They're both just too vulnerable to each other, that's going to take (hopefully) many more seasons to resolve. I relish that, and am SO looking forward to watch it develop. No reason we can't see the heat level rise in the meantime.
My question, however, has to do with one of Parker's observations.
"You were drinking. You. Were. Drinking." OMFG, in 2 shows filled with such great moments, *that* is one of my favorites. Buuuut....
Out of all of them, Parker is the only one who has never questioned the success of any of Nate's plans, or the responsibilities he assigns her in order to make them work. I remember one specific episode where the rest of the team blasted Nate for putting Parker in danger unnecessarily while she blithely did as she was told. While the rest of the team have expressed doubts about how Nate's lack of sobriety may be affecting his decisions, Parker never has.
And she's still not complaining. She's just noting that, while functional Nate and out-of-control Nate may ask the exact same thing, there is a difference. But that difference doesn't seem to matter to her.
All of that is just a long way of observing that Parker will do whatever Nate tells her to, regardless of his level of sobriety.
My question is why? Is it because Nate is like a father figure, or because it's just part of the Parker craziness - her disregard for risk and/or possible injurious outcomes? Both? Neither?
Again, fabulous job, and thanks so much for satisfying our curiosity in this space. Major awe and admiration for all of you.
Oh one other thing. I thought you were never going to have Sophie and Nate get together during the series. So I fully expected The Italian to pop up in bed with Nate. (how did Eliot miss another person in the bed?). We aren't going to get get weird Sophie/Nate for season 4 are we? No one wants a repeat of Moonlighting.
3) Where was San Lorenzo? I'd like to go there for vacation - the overhead coastal shots were gorgeous.
The Dalmatian coast of Croatia. Did old Goran have something to do with that, perchance?
Getting a couple together doesn't hurt a show, the writing of a couple hurts a show.
I've only watched the epis once, and perhaps my opinion will change with rewatching, but I'm going to have to agree with Hugin. The warehouse scene killed the BBJ for me. I cannot suspend my disbelief that much.
There is no way any human being could have survived that warehouse completely unscathed, so that means Eliot's a goddamn superhero now? I love this show -- and Eliot in particular -- and it made me sad, and mad, to find myself rolling my eyes at that scene. From the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy skills of the minions, to the "oh my God, he's standing in front of us glaring -- we can't possibly shoot him now!" moment, it was just waaaaaaay too over the top.
I do have to say that everyone was brilliant in the park scene, but Christian and Beth were just magnificent. Such controlled emotion from him, and the perfect response from her. Great scene.
Thankfully, I *loved* the SLJ, and that completely saved the finale for me. The satire was brilliant, the teamwork was fantastic, the actor who played the candidate was just perfect, and I actually enjoyed the few hints we got of Eliot's past from Flores (I think that's his name) much more than the stuff that felt really forced to me in the BBJ. Is there anyone who didn't *already* know that Eliot's done some Very Bad Things in his past?
So while I'm halfway dreading the rewatching of the BBJ, I can't wait to rewatch the SLJ!
One actual question -- I'm pretty sure you've said in the past that Eliot is an army guy (am I just imagining that?) and as far as I know, Commander is not an army rank. So what gives? Maybe ours is not the only army he's served in?
As for the anon complaining about the way N/S has been handled, I only want to address one point of your comment -- about her name: just what do you think she wrote on the napkin she handed him in the bar after he gave her the jewelry? "Merry Christmas?"
Um... long comment is long. Sorry?
@Video Beagle said...
@Anon whining about how "Nate and Sophie are treated". Grow up and sign in and post with an ID.
Don't mind FritznBrenda. She thinks everything is Everwood. And don't we know it.
I appreciate an adult relationship with an adult surprise. Nice job, writers!
I think these two episodes gave us everything we wanted. Eliot action, clever plot twists, explosions...except one thing. Sophie will sleep with Nate but not tell him her real name, that's the only unbelievable thing I saw... :)
Only Question:
Were you drunk the day they ran along the top of the train?
...Did Sophie just embed a champagne cork in some dude's eye? Because that was incredibly bad-ass.
Just... EEEEEEEeeeeeee! So perfect! That was so awesome! *hops and hops and hops* *attempts to stop fangirling out*
So, question time!
1)You mentioned in the webchat that there was something in this ep you've been waiting to write since you were 12. What was it?
2)Does this mean you're going to let the actors do more of their own stunts, or was this the last threat of cardiac arrest you'll endure?
3)Are you sending a bill to Fox for season 2 of Human Target? Or did they ask before ripping off Leverage?
4)Between the end of The Big Bang Job and the end of The San Lorenzo Job, what came of Parker's "pretzel craving"?
Ral and Hugin - I understand your comments on the Eliot fight, but to me, it's still in keeping with the show's fairly broad approach.
Yeah, Eliot should be dead about 10 times over, but the choreography was so slick, and with the special effects added in - it killed my suspension of disbelief, but it did so in a very entertaining way. Definitely "awesomely ridiculous."
Haven't seen the episodes yet but I'm thinking the Saint story you remembered is 'The Wonderful War'...
I didn't see Matrix in that shootout so much as Boondock Saints. Who cares if either of them were realistic - they're awesome!
Also agree with Sean Fagan - that was a Stainless Steel Rat tribute, right?
Am I mistaken or didn't Sophie give Nate her real name as his christmas present in the HHH Job?
Normally hate the "matrix" effect in movies and tv shows but my love of Eliot overcame that. Awesome scene, awesome actor. Thanks for letting him do his own stunts!
Great episodes, can't wait for season 3 on DVD and Season 4 can't get here fast enough!!!
There is no doubt that the finale is every bit as good as any action movie I've ever seen - and I have seen them all. All the better since your cast can actually act and some of those intense scenes between Eliot and the whole crew raised the bar to a whole new level. Someone should buy the writers, director and actors a couple of rounds for sure and then set them back to work. You're going to have to get up very early every day between now and March to top this one!
Holy #$%*!!!!!!
You realize now you have to top the Gun Fight towards the end of epi 1. I'm anxious to see you do it.
Goran Visnjic was excellent as Moreau. He played that part to a T. Although I have to say I was a little disappointed with the way they put him away. I'm hoping that he comes back to bite Nate and the Team in the a$$. Will he or is he done?
I'm looking forward to the next season; can't wait to see what you do next!!!
I'm much happier and satisfied with the way they've "told" us what Eliot did without ever actually saying it directly. To me, it had more emotional impact as the (not so) subtext than if Eliot had just answered Parker's question directly.
As far as Nate and Sophie - too many shows in the past that had the "will they or won't they" tension between the characters for a few seasons, went downhill once they got together. Finding out "they will" and they did sometimes removes what was an important element of the show. And too often, showrunners trying to "make all the fans happy" is what ends up wrecking what was a really good show.
I trust John Rogers to make sure that doesn't happen here. It will be interesting to see where they take Nate and Sophie in the next season.
Did Eliot somehow get the keys to the handcuffs to Hardison? I realize Eliot had to keep up the persona known to Damien, but would he have pulled him out of the pool? Maybe he was listening for bubbles and/or counting minutes (4 mins. befor brain damage.) Standing there and almost letting Hardison drown was "creepier" than Eliot shooting/killing people (to me at least.) Also I was really surprised that Hardison could continue to work beside Eliot. Seemed like the trust thing had been blown.
John and the Leverage writers,
I bow down and concede defeat. After the hubbub surrounding the finale and the fight scenes etc etc, I honestly thought it was all conjecture and a ploy to get us to watch (even though I am an avid watcher of this show already). I'm glad to be proven wrong :)
The BBJ was nothing short of brilliant, it had everything.
I didn't enjoy the San Lorenzo job quite as much, just a personal choice because I dislike anything political in any show. But still could appreciate the amazing writing.
I do have one question, and I am gonna feel like a heel if it gets answered and it's so very obvious, BUT.....in the warehouse shootout scene......every time Eliot moved he got shot at.
He made a run and shoot move 3 times and was immediately fired at. However, before the eyegasmic floor slide through the sludgey stuff, he calmly stood up and stood there for a good 30 seconds before he made his run and slide. Why wasn't he shot at when he first stood up?
I like to think it was because the baddies were in total awe of the enigma that is Eliot Spencer and were taken aback at first...but I am thinking that is not correct.
Thank you for putting your amazing mark on this show with your fantastic mind John. Its my favorite show on TV.
Was blown away.
1) So Cmdr. Eloit Spencer, like Cmdr. James Bond? Was he a Navy Seal?
2) We now know that Eliot in nothing but the complete warrior. The fight scene was awesome. Is it a representation of how Eliot sees combat when he lets the Warrior/Berserder part of him loose?
3.) Still waiting of Sophie's real name| Is there a reason we still don't know it?
Oh and would like to add that Mr Kane is a fucking genius. I actually teared up with his and Parkers exchange in the park where he told her to not ask him what he did.
wow that was an awesome finale. although i loved part one the best. Eliot kicked major ass.
i love how parker said she wanted "pretzels", although i was hoping you would show hardison or parker following up on that commment. someone making a move, ya know?
What can be said about those two episodes? Just amazing.
I can understand how some people might have a problem with the warehouse scene, but the way Elliot cocked the guns said it all. Gun-Fu was about to commence and there the rules are a little different. Love that I wasn't the only one who was reminded of Equilibrium. And I might be projecting but the music during the scene was vaguely spaghetti western to me.
I'm surprised no one commented on how the scandal that is worse than corruption or sex was animal cruelty. Just did the IMDB search on Goran so was that a nod to his work for animal rights?
And I thought it was a gun holster Elliot had on but you can see he gets the clips from the dead guys. Plus there is a shot where you can see it halfway decent and the design is wrong. My thinking is it's for his retractable baton.
Any confusion on how Nate delivered the "I don't know what you're talking about" line is cleared up by two words. "Elliot...listen." He was asking for a minute to come up with something so Elliot wouldn't have to deal with those guys. He didn't get that minute so Nate gave him what he could, the team not being faced with the fact that Elliot not only went there but did so for them.
Two questions. It looked like Elliot was the only one who put the black around his eyes when they rescued that researcher. Force of habit or Batman shout-out? And Nate didn't look too concerned when Moreau pulled the gun on him. Did he think Moreau wasn't the type to get his hands dirty, cause he had to know Elliot wasn't going to get there in time?
Loved how Sophie had to see the turnout for her second funeral and Nate getting on her for that.
And don't care which other episodes you manage to, you HAVE to have the cast do the commentary for these ones. And maybe if Goran could join in as well? Always nice to hear actors talk about their first bad guy role.
Loved the ending shot. Was so thinking, 'Nah it won't be Sophie. They just wanted you to think it is.' And then sure enough.
Loved all the other bits that were mentioned. You guys are amazing!
First off, I'm in lurv with you and your finale-writing partners. Lurv, I say!
Second, I also found the shootout too over the top to enjoy, but you made up for it with the character development of Eliot. Love that ya'll didn't flinch and showed us that he was the brutal killer (of a family!) we suspected he was, and loved that you've shown what I suspected, which is that he is, inherently, a soldier. That's him at the core, not just something he did as a job for a while, and the team are his fellow soldiers he'd die for and never leave behind.
It explains a lot in terms of his devotion to the team and his willingness to be led unless he absolutely needs to lead.
Third, Goran V was a great villian. I wasn't in love with his casting at first, but he impressed me. He may be the highest quality villian you guys ever had - both because he acted it well and he's got a big star's charisma. He helped the whole thing feel like a movie.
Fourth, the second half was the epitome of fun train! Unlike the shootout, it stretched credibility in all the right places! Loved Nate as the campaign dude. The dog fight rumor scene was hysterical and so true! Loved that Nate and Moreau were in open competition throughout the ep. Tim Hutton really seems to up his game when Nate has open competition, like with Sterling. LOVED Sophie's improv, and she finally gave a great death scene!! And there were definitely squees heard round the world with that ending.
The only thing I wanted was maybe even a little more cynicism, maybe a slight hint that Michael could end up being just as corrupt as the past president, since we all know that corruption is part and parcel of the politician's life. But I guess it was there subtly, since he did adopt the dishonesty of the campaign and was willing to negotiate the president's way out of office at the end, so maybe a minor quibble there.
Now on to the questions.
1) Did Moreau know that Eliot was setting him up when he ordered the warehouse hit or was he just taking Eliot and whoever he was working for out as a business decision? If he knew, what tipped him off?
2) Will Sophie's grand televised death impact her ability to grift in the future?
3) What happened to the guys in the Italian's organization who sold her out to Moreau? Will the team ever work with the Italian again?
4) Did Michael realize that the death scene was planned? He didn't seem to understand on the balcony that they were trying to kill him, but seems like something that big would require him playing along.
Of COURSE Eliot knew there was someone else in Nate's bed at the end of SLJ, and he probably knew who. He's trained to notice things.
But if Nate ever asks him about it, Eliot is going to say, "I don't know what you're talking about."
Oh, one more question.
We all kinda know what Elliot did for Moreau, or think we do, but why couldn't he walk away before having to do that? Moreau didn't have anything over his head otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get away at all. So if it was so bad how could he do it?
Kane acted the hell out of his reveal scene. I'm thinking Emmy Reel.
I'm still upset you had Eliot killing people. Plus, you didn't give us Sophie's real name either.
Hi Mr Rogers!
Thank you for a great fun filled finale :)
Loved Goran as Monroe, great casting and also a part of Eliot's past coming up to bite him ;). I must admit my fave scene of 'The Big Bang Job' was the scene in the park with the team, Eliot telling them how in knew Monroe.
I must out of the two, 'San Lorenzo Job' was my fave as it dealt with Sophie (she is my fave character along with Nate). Loved how Sophie took the bull by the horns and went straight in on camera as Nate was still thinking of a plan, way to go Sophie!!
Now the ending ;), WOOOOO & also you Evil man Lol. Finally Nate/Sophie slept together then the credits roll, ARGHHH.....
I hoping we get some Nate/Sophie flashbacks of how they got into bed in the S4 première ;) If this wasn't a finale, it would be damn hard for me to wait a week, now have to wait 7 months!!, eek I can't wait that long...
Can't wait for S4 :)
The first hour was great! LOVED Hardison's reaction to Eliot's past! Aldis did great with showing anger, surprise, and shock all in just a moment.
Best lines: "Tell him Eliot Spencer is here" and "pretzels"
Honestly, I was disappointed in the big gun battle scene. It's all been done before and was too Matrix-y. The greatness of Eliot is that he can kick ass without guns. Also, really? He was shielded by cardboard?? It all got a bit unbelievable--even for Eliot. And why would it be so bad to tell the others what happened? He's gone in and killed bad people before, when he's had too--just not with guns...is that why?
I do like that we saw more into Eliot's past--but then we already knew that he was a really bad guy before...I did like the point when Parker asked what he did, and I liked the look she made in response to what he answered.
The second hour got slow and I felt having them back to back, may have been the issue. You've got a high energy go-go-go fighting episode followed by a thinking and insightful (into American politics) episode right after. I think it lost momentum...if they were on different nights, I don't think this would have been a problem.
Loved the way it ended with Nate and Sophie in bed...are we ever going to know her real name?
I thoroughly enjoyed both eps, although like a few others here I did have to suspend my disbelief during the warehouse scene a bit. It was still awesome, but it didn't feel like Eliott - the Eliott I see is more the "Hardison, Dark" Eliott - skulky & brutal, an assassin, not showy. But the Eliott in the warehouse was a completely different man. So my question: was that intentional? Is Eliott With Guns meant to be so starkly different from Eliott With Bare Hands? To me, EWBH is scarier than EWG. I anticipated seeing him sneak off through the warehouse, popping up behind each baddie and snapping his neck or putting a round in his brainpan.
Also, why is it in TV & film that, when someone has a perfect shooting position, adequate cover, and a great open shot at the baddie, they can't hit them, but when they're sliding across a floor or doing something equally Awesomely Ridiculous, their aim improves? :-) Rhetorical really, I know it makes for an entertaining show. But if Eliott really was channeling River Tam he would have nailed every baddie with that first barrage of shots. Which would have been SO fucking badass.
I yelled at the TV when Eliott gave his real name, and also teared up at bit at the Park scene. Kudos to CK and BR for a brilliant job. How did Mark Roskin coach them to pull that scene off, or did it take any coaching at all?
Also, why shoot The Italian? Moreau wouldn't have gained anything if he had killed her, except maybe buy some time to get away from Rampaging Eliott, but he could have achieved that by shooting Nate plus it would have gotten Nate off his back.
My two cents about What Eliott Did That Was So Bad: he made a point of telling the team how Moreau didn't spare innocents, that the baddies working for him wouldn't blink at killing a family to get who they wanted. And the Busey also pointed out that he had wanted to take out Atherton's whole family. My guess, which would tie into why E laid down arms and also why he makes such an effort to protect kids, is that he was instructed by Moreau to kill a family, and it broke him.
The San Lorenzo Job was also awesome in an entirely different way. American Political Campaign = A Con Moreau Wouldn't Recognize = Satire on a whole 'nother level. AWESOME. Although I'll echo another poster, it was a strange shift of mood and energy to go from BBJ to SLJ and took me a few minutes to regain my concentration. I don't think I have any questions, although I do hope we get some more backstory on the General and Eliott, they seemed to have a strong camaraderie.
Congrats on a great season! The fans at this house are very happy & excited for the DVD commentaries and extras. Nudge nudge. :-)
We all kinda know what Elliot did for Moreau, or think we do, but why couldn't he walk away before having to do that?
Oh, but that was the point. He DIDN'T walk away when he could have. And that's what's eating him up.
1) To those asking what horrible thing Eliot did when working for Moreau -- what could possibly be worse than whatever you imagine given the dialogue so far? What could any actual revelation add to that?
2) Eliot as "Commander" -- if San Lorenzo is in the Balkans, Eliot probably served under this General in some informal capacity as we know he fought there extensively. His rank might be analogous to the Mexican revolutionary "Subcommandante Marcos" for example.
3) Cute idea having San Lorenzo be a former British colony to finesse the whole language issue. There is ample precedent for such colonies -- Gibraltar, Malta (given a shout-out in the script), Minorca, Cyprus. Someone said it was on the Dalmatian coast -- was that an inference from an on-screen map that I didn't catch, or just from GV's accent?
4) The populist revolution being manipulated by a small conspiracy has its real-life precedents (check out, for example, the review in the current New Yorker about the original Boston Tea Party) but I was most reminded of the Lunar Revolution in Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Did Rogers (a known sf geek) have that in mind as well?
WV: "porat" -- character played by Sacha Paron Cohen
Wasn't the whole point of the conversation with the replacement Eliot to tell us that Eliot had killed a family, and Moreau knew he wouldn't do it again?
PS: Apologies for multiple posts, Google kept popping up with an error message when I hit the Publish button. So, new commenters, watch out for that & yes, your comment did post! :-)
@DaveMB Someone said it was on the Dalmatian coast -- was that an inference from an on-screen map that I didn't catch, or just from GV's accent?
The establishing shots were of Dubrovnik and Sibenik, along the Croatia's Dalmatian coast. I think someone earlier speculated he might have had something to do with their being used.
Speaking of which, was the image used for Moreau's villa the Getty villa in Pacific Palisades?
Let's see: The Matrix, Real Genius, plenty of Bond riffs from Moreau plus a Goldeneye/Octopussy train gambit, leading to Pygmalion and, oh, what did I miss?
You are one of a kind -- the finest kind!
So, what was the Saint story that inspired you?
@Ral: Is there anyone who didn't *already* know that Eliot's done some Very Bad Things in his past?
Have you read the messages? There's a bunch of people here who apparently think that before joining the team, Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies.
To spell it out for the fangirls...Elliot was a hired killer. The "worst thing he did" was very likely killing a target, but not before he killed every member of the target's family in front of him. Likely by beating them to death, including the target's son. (which answers the questions from Order 23 Job).
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@Anon : You might not know who anyone on the board is, but there are several RL friends who post here. Maybe you're just anti-social.
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@Kate: You mentioned in the webchat that there was something in this ep you've been waiting to write since you were 12.
I'd bet on the sliding across the floor shooting people bit.
I envision a young Rogers sliding across the linoleum in his socks with water guns.
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@Ally : Re Sophie's death on television. Could you identify the president of any postage stamp country? Or even a larger country? What's the first lady of Canada look like? How about Jill Biden?
In the US, the most that 99% of the people will even be aware of her is a brief note in the 24hr news about the President calling to congratulate Michael on his election and condolences on the loss of his wife.
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The Who are You Guys bit. Clearly Moreau did some research between the two episodes, since he knew Nate's name and about them taking down Duberman, but then, knowing that, following the tracks, the bit at the end was a bit over much, as he'd by then know exactly who Nate was and clearly knew who the Italian was.
Which leads us to....
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After thinking about Moreau for a night.... he was actually a pretty crap arch-villain. To some extent, Nate sums it up at the end that he's just a guy in a suit....but there was a lot of tell, not show about him.
Nate: "He didn't know we were coming, and he still almost killed all of us." No he didn't. Dubenich almost killed them all. Moreau didn't come close to killing Sophie/Hardison/Parker, and as for Nate and Elliot, he got no closer then anyone else who's set a trap in that warehouse for them. And that was just because he sent a lot of thugs at them.
And let's speak of his thugs. He clearly pays low prices for them, as not one of them stopped admiring Elliot's hair to just shoot him. Even the Busey, stopped to chat, rather than shooting him, then gloating.
His criminal empire fell apart pretty quickly, given his rep. Apparently he had less of a fortress and more of a jenga tower.
Was that the point? That master-criminals are ultimately just that, criminals? Was it to play against assumptions of what a crime lord in the LeverageVerse would be? Did you just get tired of the concept (for example, Nate poking at him with a stick for 6 months was more poke, 5 + months later, poke poke.) and want to end it?
I really enjoyed the episode. I'm not going to ask you where things are going for Nate & Sophie as the answer is obviously, "Wait and See."
Question: My impression from looking at that last shot was that Nate & Sophie were rather surprised themselves to be waking up with other. Am I correct that we are seeing the "OMG! What have we done?" moment?
Final note regarding that scene: Whoever set it up did a great job camouflaging Gina under those sheets. Even going back and looking at it, I couldn't tell she was under there. When I saw Nate, I was expecting to see Sophie walk in from the bathroom or some such instead of emerge from the sheets.
Wow...sorry for such a long post.
It's funny..after I finally decided to spell out the "what Elliot Did" bit...it took me so long to type things up, other people had already said it :D
wv: graphi= I can't think of a funny thing
Have you read the messages? There's a bunch of people here who apparently think that before joining the team, Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies.
That was way harsh and uncalled for.
@ Ashely en re the filming of the hotel being the Governor ...
When the boys are boarding the elevator to go down and join the party in the first part, the sign behind them proclaims The Governor Hotel. And you're right, it does look just familiar enough to probably be the same hotel.
@Video Beagle, "Elliot was a rancher for My Little Ponies."
Which one: Rainbow Dash or Applejack. Initially I'd be inclined to think Rainbow Dash, but she's a but of a loose canon. That's why I think Applejack: country accent, cowboy had, level headed, but adventurous.
That makes sense!
@Denita: Have you seen the new My Little Pony cartoon? No? Well you should because it's ridiculously awesome!
@jarod: I'd think Applejack...Rainbow Dash is more Parker...
So leseee:
Applejack: Elliot
Rainbow Dash: Parker
Rarity: Sophie
Pinkie: Hardison
Twilight: Nate
and yes, I hate myself..and Jarod...for making me do that.
@Video Beagle, so, Fluttershy is...Maggie? Sterling?
And, yes, you're supposed to hate me. Bwa-ha-ha!
wow! thanx for the great finale..i really really love it..
im just puttin things together,
1)since Gen. Flores called Eliot "commander", does it mean that they were in the Navy? and it also hints why Eliot is familiar with ex-marine knife fightin style..
2)a follow-up question to the Rashomon job regarding the monkey, does it mean the the retrieval of the dagger came before Eliot was "arrested" in a flashback in the two horse job?
3)tell me Nate and Sophie did not..
4)when are goin to find out Sophie's real name?
@David Hunt - it's actually not that hard for a woman as slender as Gina Bellman to hide under multiple sheets/blankets/quilts. Lay very still & quiet and let the blankets fall randomly so they are not in a recognizably human. People aren't likely to see what they aren't looking for.
Eliot might have noticed, it's part of his job, but he wouldn't comment - he respects the Boss' privacy, as long as it doesn't compromise security.
@jarod: I suppose there might not be a Fluttershy in My Leverage Pony...Maggie comes the closest I guess, but that gets us into a whole weird area...
How much of Eliot's happiness in that last scene came from putting some of his demons to rest, in terms of taking out Moreau? As opposed to just general happiness that they survived?
I'm asking because over the course of the season, Eliot seemed to be increasingly angry, impatient, frustrated - just generally seemed not to enjoy working with the others anymore at all. That last scene last night, though, was vintage S1-S2 Eliot - the grinning, the gentle teasing of Hardison, the general happiness. Was it supposed to seem like such a tremendous weight had been lifted for the character?
@ jaredrussel: Also, since Batman doesn't like or use guns, does that make Eliot more of a Deathstroke, Taskmaster, or Weapon X?
We already knew Eliot was Wolverine, too. ... Although he seemed to be a bit more like Weapon X, yes.
@ Anon: Did I miss it or did we not get Sophie's real name?
--- I think it's Catherine. Perhaps not her "real" real name, but in the King George Job her "aunt" called her that. It's probably as real as any of her other names.
Line of the season - "24 year old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority."
---- Or, at least, Hardison's line of the year. There are too many great ones that would get angry if we ignored them.
Goran Visnijc was a wonderful choice to play Moreau. Elisabetta Canalis was a miss - she couldn't hold her own with Hutton. Allowing her to work in Italian for the finale was an improvement over her tortured, wooden English.
---- Ummm ... I'm probably the only one who didn't have an issue with Elisabetta Canalis. Goran Visnjic was brilliant and inspired as Moreau, but I also liked the nameless Italian. Sure, she probably could have done better than she did, but that doesn't mean she hit rock bottom with her performance.
LOVED the call back to The Bank Shot Job when Eliot rescues the mother from the meth dealers, she asks who he is and he smiles and says, "Well, ma'am, we'd be the cavalry."
The General was an excellent character as well. We should see more of him, please and thank you. Especially how he was teasing Eliot in that subtle way by calling him "Commander." The looks the others gave him after that ... brilliant.
Have I mentioned lately that I bow to your brilliance?
Oh, and thank you so much for retrieving the human that is Bonanno for the finale ... even if it was just one little scene it was nice to see him again.
Are we ever going to find out what it was that Eliot did for Moreau that was so horrible?
Oh, and I would like to tell you that I began laughing 1) When Parker said she was in the mood for pretzels, and 2) When Sophie appeared in Nate's bed. BEST CLIFFHANGER EVER.
I feel so stupid asking this, but can someone explain what happened with Hardison in the pool? How was it that he said he got extra air (something about the chair) and how did the keys eventually get to him? Did Moreau throw them in after he'd verified Elliot?
I love Hardison, and I think Aldis does a great job with him, but something about his anger in the park just didn't work. I think it might just be that he was out-acted by Kane. It just didn't feel like the right level and intensity of anger for someone who just found out Elliot knew Moreau and almost let him drown.
One more - they didn't have their coms in through most of these two episodes? Did I miss something?
@Video Beagle:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii314/turbov21/40LBS.png
Look what your hatred of fangirls hath wrought! "WROUGHT" I say!
I'm trying to figure out the path Eliot took in life.
We know he joined the military young, and went abroad. I'm thinking his military career probably moved into black ops, covert ops, and that brought him into contact with Damien Moreau. Eliot either quit working for the government to work for Moreau, or earned a burn notice and was taken on by Moreau.
He worked for Moreau for a time, until he did the "worst thing" he ever did, then left and drifted into professional retrieval, which brought him to Leverage. Do I have the jist of it?
And I wonder how Parker would actually take Eliot's actions if he did tell. If it's true he killed a kid (or kids) she may not forgive him, but I don't know. After Eliot, I always felt Parker was the most physically dangerous, perhaps with the most unsavory past after him.
Because Parker never saw people as something she could empathize with prior to the series start. When making a plan to break into a place and steal something, she likely would have considered a guard simply another component of a security system to be accounted for. And if she couldn't circumvent a guard, she may just disable him/her. And if the rest of the job would take long enough that the guard might recover and sound the alarm, she may have disabled permanently. I'm not sure Parker would have seen that as something wrong then.
She's made huge leaps in the last 3 years, in the Stork Job, The Inside Job, and The Boost Job, she's actually been able to see people as something akin to herself, but I think prior to series start, people were entirely binary to her: Help/Hindrance.
Just look at how startled Archie is when she hugs him at the end of the Inside Job... he's not used to Parker expressing things like affection and care. It's like your dog suddenly talking.
Great episodes. Just a couple questions:
1) Why wait until the end of the con to give Bonnano the papers framing Moreau? It seems like they could've done that at any time.
2) The guys dressing in SWAT uniforms and going down the elevator: Was that an Ocean's 11 reference?
Oh, and btw..the beagle contingent of Leverage fans would indeed like to see the Snoopy Lunchbox job.
@Bill
2) The guys dressing in SWAT uniforms and going down the elevator: Was that an Ocean's 11 reference?
It could be, but it also could be a Doctor Who: The End of Time part 2 reference. "That Guaurd... is 1 inch too tall."
Yeah, yours is more likely, though.
My big question during the park scene was not so much "What was the worst thing Eliot did" as "Which of the team will be the first to ask him about the worst thing he did?"
@VideoBeagle, while some fans do see Eliot through rose-colored glasses, not everyone was curious to know specifics about things Eliot's done because they thought too well of him. As a fan who is not a fangirl, I have a really, really overactive imagination and kind of wanted to know where to cap it. Did he kill one child, one family, or did he gas an entire apartment building? To be honest, I was afraid this episode would be the end of Eliot as a sympathetic character. I'm very, very glad I was wrong.
It may be twisted, but this episode only solidified Eliot as my favorite. I'm a sucker for a good redemption story. If he had no regrets about what he did, it would be different. Then again, like I said, I was already thinking the worst when it came to possible things he's done in the past. This also explains his thing about kids. I knew he wasn't just a softie somewhere deep down--he's working out guilt. It's good to see that paid off. It's good storytelling, and we got those suspicions confirmed without any hand-holding.
By the way, it says a lot for how close the team is that they can hear about Eliot's deliberate withholding of information and past deeds without pitching him out the window.
...*gets funny image*
Um, I might have missed this, but did Parker and Hardison actually leave the two knocked out guards in the train car to explode with the bomb?
Ormaybemidgets -
My read on the pool scene is that Moreau offered Eliot a deal - take out Atherton, and Moreau would let Eliot's "client" into the auction, which also means letting Hardison up out of the pool.
Once Eliot agreed, Moreau or one of his goons tossed the keys down.
Which begs the question - why did Moreau need Eliot to take out Atherton when he has a ginormous goon squad who could have done that and shot Eliot and Hardison right there, but then, that might have required exiting the fun train before the Awesomely Ridiculous warehouse shootout in which dozens of goons were so blinded by Eliot's perfect hair that they could not defend themselves. So I'm not gonna go there.
@Tori, agreed.
I like the little bits we know about him, and that he's looking to be a better person...maybe to be the person he thinks he'd have been had someone like him put him on the right path (ala his actions in Tap Out or Underground). As Rogers has said...Elliot is Batman...Batman's motivation is to keep what happened to him from happening to others*.
And knowing exactly what he did will either be too little to satisfy what we know and think (really? That's it?) , or too much (He blew up a convent full of orphaned puppies? Really?)
But call him a woobie...and grrr I'm gonna go all moral event horizon on you.
*Lesser Batman writers think that his motivation is to find his parent's killers. And so they feel he never can do that. That's just dumb, and turns him being heroic to just being the Punisher in a silly outfit.
Thanks for an awesome finale!
About the Hardison-in-the-pool scene...I'd like to second or third the request for info about how the keys got to him.
In response to someone's comment above about how Hardison should be more angry with Eliot--I actually liked the scene. A season ago, Eliot would have HAD to jump in and fish Hardison out. But by now, Hardison has had more experience with physical danger, and Eliot can rely more on the hacker to save himself. I thought the scene demonstrated that Eliot can go on with the job and trust Hardison not to be a liability.
But later, why didn't Moreau just kill The Italian outright? He didn't need her alive to trap Eliot and his 'employer' in the warehouse.
@Oona - I think he gave Elliot the hit job to proove he was on the up and up. He had no reason to distrust him at that point. Elliot was a former lieutenant who clearly left on good terms.
I think it wasn't til he noticed the woman who was a decade older than the rest of his girl herd and captured the Italian he twigged that something was going on.
@Video Beagle - my take too. Asking Eliot to take out Atherton was to obtain proof Eliot was 'in', not that he didn't have plenty of other muscle perfectly capable of taking Atherton out. It was a test.
@Oona - you asked earlier about the 'car' being discussed by Eliot and Chapman (not sure on the name - the Busey). I took it, because of the comment about the traffic cams, to be about the car they were in, and said so. Watched it again, and Chapman does say "it's still in Virginia", so it would seem to be that they were talking about the railway car. I'm just not sure why Eliot was asking for clarification on the railway car....
So years ago, I played paintball and airsoft, which admittedly doesn't have the accuracy of real bullets, but I watched a friend of mine run a 30 foot gauntlet with 20 or so real marines and army guys shooting at him and not get hit even once. It was fucking incredible. So for all those people who think the Eliot scene is impossible, I'd respond with "improbable but not impossible." I loved the scene. Even my husband, who's not a big fan, thought it was an awesome combination of spaghetti westerns and video games. Kane did a great job as did the director and all of the techies who made those bullets do what they did. And WOW, he's a fast draw- like Wyatt fucking Earp fast.
I guess my only question is what questions do your answers match up to?
I second the suggestion that the cast be in on the DVD commentary for these episodes. That would be awesome.
@VideoBeagle Thank you so much for saying that. Eliot is not a woobie. Parker's a woobie. Eliot's an atoner.
About the pool scene, I'm pretty sure if Eliot had fished Hardison out prematurely, Moreau would have had them both shot. Eliot knows that in order to get Hardison out alive, he has to play by Moreau's rules. Answer the questions to his satisfaction, and they'll both be fine. Kicking Hardison into the pool was not an execution later aborted, but a way of forcing Eliot to give those answers concisely and quickly. If Moreau hadn't stopped to take a long drink of whiskey, Hardison may not have needed to suck air out of the chair. In other words, Eliot saved Hardison's life. In a manner of speaking. If he'd been honest with the team from the start, Nate probably would have made a different plan that didn't involve, however unwittingly, Hardison getting chucked into a pool.
I love the fact you answered the exact question I asked, no more, no less. There was indeed pretzel follow-up, just not enough of it. Did something happen between Parker and Hardison off-screen that we'll get glimpses of in Season 4? I thought for sure she was going to kiss him in the elevator at the end of the SLJ.
When Season 1 kicked off, there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that Hardison was the computer guy. Parker and Eliot were both shown needing assistance in the computer realm. However, as the seasons have progressed, they've both gotten better at it (especially Parker) and my assumption has always been that Hardison has shown them some tricks. So has no one really returned the favor and taught Hardison how to pick locks?
I adore the big brother/little sister vibe between Eliot and Parker. The park scene was heart-breaking as he told her that he'd be honest, but that he wanted to remain somewhat untarnished in her eyes. Kudos to Christian and Beth for fantastic acting in both eps.
Last question: same airport/hanger as seen in the David Jobs?
@Rusty -
I assumed he was talking about the car they were IN. Busey says it will be dumped, along with the gun. And Elliot did specifically mention traffic cameras, which would only be an issue with the car he was in.
That part really didn't make sense to me. Atherton's death will obviously be ruled a homicide, and if there are traffic cameras they can identify Busey and Elliot off of that. I think he was saying that the car is registered in Virginia, and they're going to sink it and the gun, which means the car can't be physically traced and when they run the registration it won't trace to them.
Of course, the show's told us all about corruption and inefficiency in police work, but these things could theoretically be done. Why does Elliot ask at all if the situation isn't fully resolved (the car is gone, the traffic camera pictures aren't)?
@Video Beagle Oh, dear. I don't think it makes one a raving fangirl to think that Eliot - in any incarnation - would draw the line at beating a child to death. Personally I envisioned something more along the lines of blowing up a house or running a car off the road without bothering to check if there were kids present. Either way, I sincerely hope they never show us exactly what Eliot did - at this point, nothing they showed could be as damaging as what we're collectively imagining.
John, I also wanted to mention that I thought that Flores, apart from just being a great standalone character, was used effectively to balance out the darker revelations about Eliot's past. Without taking anything away from Eliot's sins, that friendship reminded us that Eliot, even before donning the white hat, wasn't a heartless psycho. Nicely done.
One more question: With Vittori's whole "Yay, democracy! Boo, corruption!" platform, it seems to me he's going to have a devil of a time explaining to the people why he's keeping one of Ribera's political prisoners in custody. So will Moreau face actual charges in San Lorenzo at some point?
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