@ormaybemidgets - yeah, that part is kind of confusing me. The traffic cams would definitely be a reference to the car they were IN, I totally agree. But, when Eliot says "tell me again about the car", the Busey says "it's still in Virginia". But the Busey then talks about the gun being disposed of with the car - said gun being in the glove compartment of the car they're sitting in.
When the drive away after Eliot 'kills' Atherton, Eliot tells the Busey "go faster than 35 and I'll kill ya" - obviously, doesn't want to attract attention, but could be a reference again to the traffic cams?
Guess it hinges on what the Busey meant by "still in Virginia"? I'm just not sure, but I'm still leaning more toward the whole conversation being about the car, not the railway car.
Goran's performance reminded me a bitof his performance in Practical Magic, but pulled back a notch.
Recognized the Quigly quote. It worked, but did you know?
What were the straps Eliot was wearing in the warehouse?
From the moment Eliot said he kept track of where Moreau was I knew he used to work for him. And it made perfect sense. Thank you. Add someone's coment about how Eliot seemed pissed all season. Makes perfect sense when you realize the team was taking him back to THIS place in his life. Now that Moreau is in jail and his big bad secret is sort of out, he's got the weight of the world off his shoulders.
I assume that Flores is a really good person and something about him broke Eliot away from the life with Moreau. But I like that it's not spelled out. I also really loved the senior-junior officer vibe betweent them. Rang true from my own (non-military) training.
I am assuming that Eliot doesn't like guns BECAUSE he's so good with them. I, too saw River Tam in Eliot. Almost expected him to say something about math at the end of his slide. "I don't like guns, doesn't mean I can't do the math."
VB - Good point about the assassination of Atherton about being a test or hurdle in order for Eliot to get his client into the meeting. It still seems perhaps a bit overly-complicated and manufactured, but not terribly so.
Rusty - that actually wasn't me asking about the car, but thanks anyway.
BTW - I just wanted to add that the actor playing Michael was very effective. Nicely shlubby in the rumbled suit but made a convincing turn. He really held the screen well with TH and GB.
My question: at the end, why did Sophie say Uh-oh? I'm hoping it's not because she regrets sleeping with Nate, but rather that she's worried Eliot is about to break down the door to her hotel room next. To me that makes more sense - that the uh-oh has to do with the team's reactions to them and not with waking up naked in bed with Nate. Right?
One more - I remember you once tweeting that the key to the finale was in Nate's Moffat-like speech. I love the Moffat speeches that Steve would give in Coupling. But which of Nate's speeches in the finale were you calling Moffat-like? None of them seemed quite long enough to be "Moffat-like". ;-)
@Oona...it's one of those typical "You show me you're a bad guy, and you can join my bad guy club" things.
@evening_shadow: We've seen Hardison picking locks. But that was more escape artists stuff...
@erin: I'm thinking that explosives likely wouldn't be exact enough for the kind of reasons that Moreau would want someone dead. (He wanted Atherton's body found, not "go blow up the car"). but ymmv
Great episodes!!! I thought BBJ was better - Eliot fan here! Totally loved it! Can't wait for the DVDs to come out or the next season!! I would love to know which of you has been to Turkey Istanbul? As a citizen of Istanbul I almost spitted out my drink when Sophie said she learnt to drive from one of our cab drivers. So true! majority drive like maniacs - while keeping a running commentary on about life, politics you name it they know it. So who? Thanx again for a very entertaining 2 hours, it was like a movie!!
Question: We had Nate and his story for season 1, Sophie and her story for season 2 and now Eliot and his story for season 3 so are we getting Parker or Hardison's story in season 4 and have you explained that you need a 5th season for the remaining character at the very least?????
For those suspending reality for the warehouse, seems to me it's the same has when Parker gets through the room with the laser beams to get the ice cream and on other occasions.
as for Sophie's name, I am thinking it is really Rebecca.
As for Sophie and Nate, there wouldn't be a romantic evening before for sure, more of a falling into bed together having drinking a bit too much.
If I remember correctly, Sophie told Nate he was "..working off that slap." Apparently he did! I loved Sophie's "Oh no!" and Nate's "Hi". Great ending and really the first season where there wasn't a hint of a cliffhanger, that is, will-the-team-get-back-together-or-not?
I loved the scene with the General referring to Eliot as Commander because we get a little smile out of Eliot and everyone else exchanging "what the..." looks.
No one has mentioned the scene with Eliot and Parker where he is almost babbling about why she can't use a steam vent "...normal people..." and then challenges her on being 60 ft. below ground so she sings one note and is quite sure she is right. Also, Beth can do the she-be-crazy looks better than anyone else. Someone who really gets off on danger and even more - violence.
All the lines from past shows like "we'd be the Cavalry", "you're adorable", etc. was great.
FANTASTIC 2 hours. I'll admit it - I got a DVR just for Leverage so I could watch to my heart's content until the DVD arrives.
No, Anonymous, you aren't the only one who thinks Eiot kicking ass is hot. Wow!! Loved the first part, but I really wanted to see Eliot's anguish continue. He's obviously wrestling with some deons and that's such rich territory that I'd love to see it explorted. Christian was marvelous in these epoisodes.
@Video Beagle, you might tone down the fangirl scorn just a hair. I'm an unapologetic Eliot fangirl (I can squee with the best of them), but I've never had any doubt that Eliot is a bad, bad man who has done bad, bad things. Funny, grumpy, charming Eliot was once, and can still be, a stone cold killer.
So it's not necessarily fangirls who can't wrap their heads around Eliot as a professional killer, it's a particular subset who need to believe that Eliot spends all his time playing with puppies.
@SueN - Hear, hear! :-) I am a total Eliot fangirl (who would be embarrassed to admit her age at the same time as typing that sentence), but I can and do totally accept that the Eliot of 10 years ago was a VERY bad man, and that, as we saw last night, he can pull elements of that bad man back out when it comes to protecting his team.
How often do Eliot and Beck from the Rundown hang out? Those are the only guys I've ever seen referred to as "retrieval experts". Both are adept in the kitchen. And now after professing a disdain for firearms they've had enormous epic gun battle action sequences. The only difference (and well, probably the most important one) is that Eliot is played by someone with some acting ability. The gun fight managed to win me over during the course of it. It began as eyerollingly narmful but by the end I could chuckle in appreciation of it's insanity.
Great moments for everyone but as usual the best comes when the whole team's together. That scene in the park in BBJ = awesome.
Loved the SLJ for its own reasons and the decision to take the second half in a totally lighter direction. Goran really nailed Moreau. I echo the calls to find ways to bring him back around in the future if you can.
One bit of confusion on my part, in the very opening with the lab break in. Was it only the Leverage crew there or was there a second group? We only see three masked figures (two toss the office and #3 grabs the client). Later, right before the office goes boom we get the reveal of Parker, Hardison, and Eliot and they are saving her life. When Moreau and Atherton talk Moreau says he had her killed. Were the two people ransacking the office hitmen who then placed the bomb and not connected to the unseen Leverage member who grabbed the client? Or were they two of our three heroes, who got tipped off to the bomb and showed up just in time to steal some info from the office before grabbing the client and letting it blow fake her death?
I got the impression that the holsters that Eliot showed up with in the warehouse were to carry ammunition. He’s worked for Moreau and knows how his men operate. If I read the initial exchange between him and Chapman (?) correctly, Eliot used to head Moreau’s security. So he would totally know how they’d roll.
Also, did anyone notice Moreau’s wedding ring? I’m guessing the Season 4’s Big Bad is Mrs. Moreau seeking revenge and turning out to be the ‘brains’ behind Moreau’s operation.
@the car's still in virginia discussion: I heard the Busey's comment as "It's registered in Virginia.", if that helps clear anything up.
@Sophie's real name: I went back to HHH and watched the scene several (okay, more than several) times, and it looks to me like she writes 'Lisa'. But didn't I see a mention here that during the webchat it's stated that Sophie gave Nate 'a hint, not the real thing'?
Wait...I'm confused. Hardison is 24? Wasn't he in his early twenties during flashbacks in The Rashoman Job? And that was at least five years ago....
Just a bit of Fridge Logic. Didn't really interrupt the fun train; just made the tracks look a bit non-Euclidean. Okay, I'm done torturing this metaphor to death.
Great episodes. You've outdone yourselves again. Which is impressive, considering the bar you've already set for yourselves.
One more thing - I took it that Eliot had been Moreau's go-to person or even the Busey (althoug I can't see Eliot as anyone's Busey!) from the conversation with the current Busey when Eliot said, "you got the job?" and Busey answered something like "there was a vacancy". Was Eliot with Moreau for a longer period of time than just a couple of jobs?
For all its upping the ante in what the team can steal -- also, nice to know I wasn't the only Transmet-head thinking Vita Severn when Sophie got turned into another Diana -- I felt the San Lorenzo Job was very much on-speed; the threat to the team was never escalated in the way it was when Hardison got kicked into the pool in the first part. Did this stem from a conscious decision in the writers' room to mix things up and not have the last episode be dramatic and heavy, or just worries about having a dark episode *and* satirizing the horrible thing that is US politics at the same time derailing the fun train?
@Anonymous ranting about Nate/Sophie:
I dunno what show you're watching (or blog you're reading for that matter), but Leverage is not really a show to indulge in soft-focus skipping along in a field of gillyflowers view of romance. The moment closing off their arc in this season in my mind is the conversation about Nate and Sophie being partners and friends.
Of course, they're broken people, and drama hates comfortable, happy relationships, so once they arrived at a comfortable place, they promptly went and upset the applecart with a drunken shag, as a tease for what they'll have to deal with in next season. If you actually *show* how they arrived at that -- which judging from what I know of drunken shags would not be glamorous -- you ruin the fun of the reveal.
@msd: my impression was that Elliot was there long term. Enough that the thugs hearing "I'm Elliot Spenser" meant "we let him in and keep many many many guns on him." Either from standing orders, or from reputation told by squad veterans.
@IMForeman There's still the "someone" the Italian was talking to in The Morning After Job, who many of us suspected was Sterling. So he may have known what was going down the whole time.
"just how bullet proof are cardboard boxes?" -lol - That was my question too.
"5. Kane needs to wear that shade of blue more often" -Agreed!
"rancher for my little pony" -fucking hilarious!
As far as Parker/Hardison, "pretzels" was sufficient. Nate/Sophie, I really didn't need to see them in bed together. There are far too many hormones raging in this community (the Leverage community) use your imagination and leave it at that!
Watched both shows again-thanks so much for this finale! Still think Christian was amazing in the warehouse gunfight--WOW! My question is- how long did it take to film that scene and how many takes did Christian have to do?
@Erin One more question: With Vittori's whole "Yay, democracy! Boo, corruption!" platform, it seems to me he's going to have a devil of a time explaining to the people why he's keeping one of Ribera's political prisoners in custody. So will Moreau face actual charges in San Lorenzo at some point?
I'm going to guess that it's not going to be a great problem. Moreau is a wanted criminal in a boatload of Western nations, now. That would make keeping him a prisoner more palatable to the people. The actual politicians that just moved him are obviously fully aware of how he had subverted the previous government to be his personal valet. They can't afford to let him out, because he might be able to pull that trick again and we're back to reference about carrying shovel while you're out in the woods.
Fantastic, fantastic job! Though the pacing did seem a little off, in that the BBJ seemed more of a"Finale" finale while the SLJ seemed more like a build-up. But hey, that's okay, I'm not complaining! I guess the "finality" comes from a) defeating the villain for good and b) stealing a friggin' COUNTRY. Hot damn.
1) Did no one bother to check in to the hopefully future first lady's past? Seriously? She just appears out of nowhere, and everyone's cool with it?
2) Why didn't Moreau run a slander campaign against our guy? Isn't that the first tactic these guys use?
3) I loved the way you brought the EMP back as the MacGuffin. It made me think of the third season of Doctor Who, with "The Lazarus Experiment." You've said that you're a fan of DW, and Steven Moffat in particular. a) Was the similarity between the Big Bang Job and Doctor Who intentional? b) Was the title of the BBJ a tribute to Doctor Who/The Moff's own glorious finale?
first a remark: the whole "it was totally Matrix-like" thing about the warehouse-shootout reminds me of a few years ago (after the first Matrix movie had come out) when people were seeing wire-work in other movies and commenting about the matrix-ness .. And it would make me sigh and/or angry because of course Matrix had just been the most mainstream example up to that point. Anyway. To me it was, at first, a Max Payne-scene (the game) and then very much Equilibrium. Kane is a Grammaton Cleric, holy shit!
A remark on parker and costumes: I'm a big time Parker fanboy (probably even more than I am an Amy Pond fanboy, but I digress) and I was one of the horde who, after the S01 finale kept screaming "w000 Parker in that dress, OMGWTFBBQ *drool*" and so forth.
Only then to be kinda disappointed in seasons 2 and onwards when, apparently, a decision had been made to show sexy-Parker a bit more often. Which kinda took it in a wrong direction for me. Until the almost-last scene in the San Lorenzo job, when I went back to salivating (secretly, after all my wife was sitting next to me): Whatever she was wearing, the back-side of it was breath-taking!
One question (which I think I've asked before but didn't get an answer for): do you sometimes wish you were working for the BBC, where you could use any piece of Music you like (so you could do a very short tease of the A-Team theme in a scene or sth like that) without a license? All this "having to clear it first" must suck ..
Ah, as long as we are talking British TV, are you aware of the awesomeness that is the show "Misfits"? Because you should.
No questions yet, just compliments. I have my own personal rating scale for the TV shows I watch and when I saw the pilot back then, I rated it with 10/10 because I thought it couldn't get better. And yet, with every season, you come out with even more mind-blowing episodes. I guess, I'll have to give you at least 15/10 for both the final episodes!
@Video Beagle: not convinced that Eliot killed a family on purpose. I felt more that bad guy in the car was trying to impress upon Eliot that he could and would do things that even Eliot wouldn’t do because he knows why Eliot left and wants Eliot to be afraid of him. The inference of a “car accident” when talking about getting rid of the general leads me to believe that when Eliot killed someone for Moreau possibly with a staged “car accident” other people (probably kids) were killed, either in the car with the target or just bystanders. There is no way that the Eliot who loved Amy and the Eliot we know now could have been a psychopath killer for Moreau in between, which he would have had to be in order to take out a complete family on order.
As for the line “Who are you guys” I feel like that was from some movie and I just can’t place it, how about it Rogers, was that a line/scene from one of your inspirations? Do tell.
@ormaybegmigdets: I would think Moreau had one of his henchmen throw the keys in after Eliot agreed to kill Atherton. @Tori Angli: Hardison without a doubt would be the first. Nate already has a good idea, Sophie likes her secrets and Parker knows she really doesn’t want to know. Hardison on the other hand likes to know everything about everything and thinks he can handle anything Eliot could tell him.
@Oona: Moreau didn’t “need” Eliot to take out Atherton, it was a test to see if he were really there to work out a deal.
@Bonnie: In last week’s webcast they mentioned that Christian spent 2 days working on the warehouse scene.
Ack, sorry! Two more questions: 4) Was Vittori in on the whole "Sophie pretends to die" thing before it happened? I'd assume yes, considering the way he acted, but he seemed clueless enough about the attempt on his life by the guards to not be in on the plan.
5) Will Nate and Sophie say "Let's just pretend this never happened" and try to hit a reset button? I normally detest the reset button, but that's how I see them reacting, considering that a) the sex was had while they were both compromised, and b) they had just reached the "friendly partnership" stage of their relationship, and they wouldn't want to blow that. Not yet, at least. Of course, just because they TRY to hit the reset button doesn't mean it will work...
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what to say. You and the Leverage team are awesome! Loved both episodes but of the two, the Big Bang Job was my favorite - I think I have a new all-time favorite episode. How are you going to top that?!?
I absolutely loved the scene in the park where Eliot told Parker not to ask him about what he'd done, and Christian and Beth were on the verge of tears - stole my heart.
The warehouse fight scene was f-ing brilliant!! I'm guessing that's what you had wanted to write since you were 12? Loved every freaking second of it! Before the episode aired, I was a tiny bit worried that you might be trying to make us make us hate Eliot, but you succeeded in making him even sexier! By the way, he should wear that shade of blue more often...
Questions: 1)Was that the Cellwood Bridget that Parker and Hardison jumped off of? 2)Does Vittori know that Sophie's "death" was just an act? 3)Did Timothy actually do the stunt where Nate got knocked rather roughly into that table, or whatever it was? 4) Both Sophie and Eliot had their faces on TV - will that come back to bite them in the ass at some point? (since Eliot was so worried about someone recognizing him from the video on the Internet when he was playing Krane) 5) Just how much fun did Christian have filming the warehouse scene? 6) Who's idea was Eliot's belt buckle? A great shout out to Christian's heritage.
Caitlin: Are we ever going to find out what it was that Eliot did for Moreau that was so horrible?
Given that Eliot said that ALL of Moreau's men had "innocent blood" on their hands and one of Moreau's flunkies was perfectly willing to kill the general's whole family without batting an eye (and implied that it was SOP), I figure that's all the detail we needed.
"When Season 1 kicked off, there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that Hardison was the computer guy. Parker and Eliot were both shown needing assistance in the computer realm. However, as the seasons have progressed, they've both gotten better at it (especially Parker) and my assumption has always been that Hardison has shown them some tricks. So has no one really returned the favor and taught Hardison how to pick locks?"
I don't know about you, but when I saw one punch that guard on the train I immediately thought 'Eliot's been teaching him how to hit'
Q. What do you get when a Gunslinger hangs up his guns? A. Eliot Spencer.
As ever, filled with love for the gang... but did anyone else find Moreau a disappointment? After being built up as a Big Bad, a man so vile he got Eliot to commit unnamed atrocities, he's just another bastard in a suit?
Actual question - how big a smile did the writers get when Wikileaks happened, in regard to the last ep having such a strong 'internet trumps other media in politics' angle?
You're right, it's not really a problem - and certainly not if we accept that this is a matter of Leverage!verse law :) I was just thinking that much was made of the political prisoner/asset seizure laws instituted by Ribera being emblematic of his corruption, and it would seem odd for Vittori to accept the ongoing incarceration of Moreau while also trying to establish his own credibility as a reformer under the gaze of the world press/UN inspectors. Moreau may be a bastard, but his arrest was a pretty transparent asset seizure by Ribera: heck, he'll be living in the guy's villa! That just doesn't look good for Vittori no matter how dirty Moreau is.
It's not at all unrealistic, of course. I'm mostly just envisioning some sort of snag that could allow the fantastic Goran Visnjic to return at some point in the future :) Perhaps a situation that might, gee, I don't know, require Interpol to get involved? Heh.
I think it depends on who you ask. As for Eliot, I think he sees himself as a bad guy doing good things. Or a bad guy doing semi-bad things for good reason.
I just don't think he'd bought into that "we're the good guys now"yet. At least, not where he's concerned.
I thought Goran Visnjic did a great job with the banality of yuppie evil, and epic Eliot was epic.
One thing I did wonder about, though - why didn't Hardison drag the chair to the shallow end of the pool and stand up? He's a pretty big guy, and at least some of the chair was hollow, so it couldn't have been that heavy.
@Ian: Yep, "The Wonderful War" is pretty obviously it, right down to the denouement scene in El Presidente's inner sanctum. But that wasn't a recent story as Rogers claimed; it's from 1931 or earlier! So maybe it's something else.... but I can't remember any other time that Templar overthrew a whole country. :)
Don't understand all the "warnings" about Nate being a TOTAL bastard, and Eliot showing his darkest side, in the lead up to the finale. If anything, Eliot is even hotter now than he ever was! Maybe I'm just attracted to the "bad" boys?
I didn't read through all 200+ comments to see if this was already asked, so here goes: What kind of setup was involved for Eliot's big shoot-out scene with Moreau's baddies? How many times did y'all have to do to get the scene the way you wanted it, or did Kane knock it out of the park on the very first take? And can I just add this? That whole sequence was pure genius. And Eliot IS Batman. Thank you all for a fantastic end to this season. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch it again.
@KimH: I agree completely re Eliot's slide to freedom, except that I don't think he could be very effective shooting back at anyone. For the other guys, though - if you've never fired a pistol, you would not believe how hard it is to hit a stationary target with one, let alone a moving target that's shooting back at you. Now add that that moving target is low to the ground (not where most people are used to aiming) and behind it are some of your... well, not friends, but teammates, at least. It has to give one at least a little bit of a pause, a less sure aim. "Improbable but not impossible", exactly.
Damn good finale episodes. I honestly didn't expect them to measure up to the last two seasons. Was surprised and quite please to find that they surpassed them. Kudos to all of you!
The only thing I was left wondering was if Eliot is worried at all about his fingerprints being left on those guns?
I'm just going to say, like most everyone else on the board...you guys knocked it out of the park! Awesome episodes, I loved every single minute!
I do have to ask this question: Will the warehouse have any after effects on Eliot?
My guess, for what it's worth, is that no, it won't. In the San Lorenzo Job, when the General asked Eliot if he could ever leave one of his team members behind and he and Parker share that full of awesome look, I think I understood. He was willing to do anything to protect the team, even if it meant becoming that "bad man" again. I guess that's what makes Eliot such a hero - redemption is out of reach for him (or so he thinks) so he's just going to do his best to be the best hitter he can.
Or maybe I'm just thinking waaayyy too deep on this matter. Either way, awesome episodes. I loved every single minute!
Have wonderful, restful holidays...you're going to need to a lot of energy to top those episodes!
Random: When Eliot is talking about the dog fighting ring, is that a picture of the Moneda in the background? If it was the tech folk having fun, good job! :)
In case no one mentioned it (there are 254 comments at this point): thank you for putting Eliot and lubricant together, even if it wasn't the right kind of lubricant ;) The fan fic writers are going wild.
Hmm. I like how everyone thinks Nate and Sophie are together and/or slept together just because they ended up in the same hotel room bed together wearing very little after celebrating in a alcohol fueled way. Given the way their awesomely compacted relationship has developed, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if appearances, in this case, are very deceiving . . . and the angst possibilities are endlessly delicious.
Leverage has become my favorite show on TV. Can't wait for Season 4!
My questions are more general than episode specific. CK has commented that he has had to go to the hospital every season and I wondered if that was true I the 3rd season. If so, which episode and what was the injury? Same questions about Beth? Thanks to cast and crew for providing good intertainment!
Is it a coincidence that the Season Two finale was titled "the Maltese Falcon Job" and the mcguffin in the first part of this season's finale was called the Ram's Horn? In the Bette Davis remake of the Maltese Falcon, the falcon was changed to a jeweled ram's horn. Were you guys playing around with movie trivia or is this just a really really odd coincidence?
DOH! I just rewatched and realized that I didn't catch the first time that Nate's character in SLG was Draper! (Too many Newcastles.)
I have to assume that a morally ambiguous guy manipulating the general public named Draper is a nod to Mad Men? Awesome little touch, if so. I love you guys' references. You should make a trivia game for the DVD or something.
Oh, and my guess for Sophie's name on rewatch - Diana.
1) Is the whole Moreau thing the reason Eliot's so protective of kids now?
2) You said watch both eps. for Sophie's real name...does that mean we're supposed to believe her real name is...Rebbecca Henkle??? (PLEASE SAY NO!)
3) Nate & Sophie...FINALLY...and it was so....ARGH! What the fuck? Eliot shoulda caught them! At the very least, a role reversal, SOPHIE clearing off...hmm...the kitchen table back at Nate's apartment, and throwing him down on it! That was such a letdown after all this time.
@Video Beagle, "Hardison set up a background for Sophie's character."
Actually, he said he would do it, then Moreau showed up, and he went off to hack into the embassy cameras and started spamming San Lorenzo. I'm not sure we ever saw him create the back story, which makes me think Sophie may have used her real name and backstory in this ep.
I wouldn't think that Elliot would be too broken up about the warehouse. It wasn't the first time he's killed lots of people, and they were bad guys who were trying to kill him. He wants to move away from that, but I think at some level he knows he can't while he's still in the life.
This is his Wolverine arc...he's a ninja who dreams of being a samurai.
My feelings about the finale episodes can be summed up thus:
Rogers you magnificent bastard.
And you know I mean that in the best possible way. I must admit I like you more cynical episodes.
I loved both episodes. They're completely different in tone and shape and yet, so wonderful.
Kane did knock it out of the park. Emmy or Golden Globes nomination reel, please! Not that the other actors weren't on their game. No, you have a fabulous team of people to work with.
The most brilliant lines of the evening for me: Elliot's "Don't ask me" and Nate's "I have a 24 year old genius with a smart phone and a problem with authority." The first, at least, is a character-defining line. The second could be developed as such.
I have one question, and it's more of a meta-thing. You admitted to having Lester Dent's essay about plot formula up on the writer's wall, and about writing pulp. Maybe this has been asked before and I missed it, but why five characters for this show? Does it have to do with the Doc Savage rule-of-five? (Always have five main characters, or four with a fifth who changes with every story?)
Also -- thank you for putting Nate and Sophie into the same bed. I'm so glad. Not because I'm a Nate/Sophie shipper, but because now that they've slept together, their relationship can get so screwed up. Sleeping together doesn't solve *any* of their problems. It just makes them worse. That's what often happens with adults. (Cynical? Who me?)
So once again, thank you and the other writers and the directors and actors and everyone on the set. Absolutely magnificent. Thank you for Leverage, the best hour on TV.
In regards to whether or not Eliot should be upset over what he did in the warehouse, I'm going to side with Terry Pratchett: if you can do it for a good reason, you can end up doing it for a bad reason. The point wasn't who he was killing or whether or not they deserved it. The point was that he was capable of it. Killing a person is a messed-up thing to do even when you have to do it, and Eliot has a long, long history of doing it for bad reasons that he can't just compartmentalize.
All the same, will it bleed over into next season? Probably not. The man was positively giddy at the end of "San Lorenzo." Also, Leverage is a dramedy. Languishing is kept to a minimum.
"Hmm. I like how everyone thinks Nate and Sophie are together and/or slept together just because they ended up in the same hotel room bed together wearing very little after celebrating in a alcohol fueled way."
Oh man, don't take away the Nate/Sophie sex. I've always appreciated that the show leaves a lot of details open without ever taking advantage of that to insert something that's convenient for the episode but just doesn't make sense.
Also -- thank you for putting Nate and Sophie into the same bed. I'm so glad. Not because I'm a Nate/Sophie shipper, but because now that they've slept together, their relationship can get so screwed up. Sleeping together doesn't solve *any* of their problems. It just makes them worse. That's what often happens with adults. (Cynical? Who me?)
This. I am totally into this.
Or it helps Nate a little, but freaks Sophie out a lot. Or....
I think what was actually said was "Stolen from Virgina." I think it makes more sense when they talk about dumping the car and gun into the sea. So it can't be traced back to them.
But thats just my personal opinion, we'll have to wait to see what Rogers says.
Sorry if this has been addressed already, I haven't read all the comments yet.
@Tori: Ah, but in this case it's if you can do it for a bad reason, you can end up doing it for a good reason.
And we see that Eliot compartmentalizes the violence. He doesn't give every security guard he knocks out a candy cane, after all.
More and more I think that Eliot isn't Batman, but Claremont's Wolverine...the best there is at what he does, and the whole ninja vs samurai thing.....and that makes Hardison Kitty Pryde.
@Video Beagle That's not compartmentalizing, that's growing a heart. We're not talking about giving someone a tap on the head, we're talking about ending their life. Whether it's for a good or bad reason, it's bad business, and Eliot knows that.
@24jg13, Eliot's not and never has been a "psychopathic killer" for anyone. Eliot is a professional killer. And he is a soldier. Which means he takes orders from his superiors. So when he worked for Moreau, he killed whoever Moreau told him to kill. Not by accident, but by design.
And as someone else said above, that's what's eating him alive, and what Eliot said he'll "never get clean from." He did it willingly, knowingly and sanely, and he didn't walk away until it was too late.
So, no, the man who worked for Moreau (and probably others) wasn't the same man who loved Aimee back then or who works with the team now. But that man still exists in Eliot, and he came out guns a-blazin' in the BJJ. And he was also ready to tear Moreau into pieces in that airplane hangar.
This was the best thing I've seen on tv. Ever. Everever.
I guess I could tell you all about the scenes I liked best, but since you do have the script already I don't really need to write the entire thing for you again. ;-)
I have only one question. How do I send flowers and a real good bottle of whiskey to the writers' room?
It's been interesting reading all the thoughts about the episodes. Like so many, I thought the shoot-out scene was fabulously OTT, in the best possible way. Leverage doesn't take itself too seriously, and it's worked up to this level of disbelief slowly but surely. But as much as I see the elements of The Matrix that others have talked so much about, am I really the only one who sees the whole shoot-out as more of an homage to Roberto Rodriguez? Up to the sliding on knees part, I felt I was watching Leverage goes Desperado more than anything else. And that was pretty fabulous.
Rogers, please, please hear our plea and bring Moreau back. You left a nice trail of loose ends, and how can we possibly be finished with Moreau before Sterling gets a crack at him? Moreau has a full-on grudge against Nate now, and this is the perfect opportunity to set up a scenario where Nate and Sterling have to work together. Think of Moreau like Brennan or Larry on Burn Notice, popping up to stir up trouble, then seemingly dispatched only to reappear and make trouble once again. Anyone really think he'd have much trouble getting out of that jail in San Lorenzo? Of course not.
I just rewatched the car scene w/ my ccs on. The dialogue is basically as follows:
E: DC has a lot of traffic cameras. Tell me about the car. Henchman: Stolen in Virginia. When it's done, it'll be taken to the docks and shipped overseas. Gun's in there.
My take on the scene was that Eliot knew the cameras would catch him leaving Atherton's car and getting into the getaway vehicle. Members of the Hitters guild seem required to speak in low, menacing tones, which can be difficult to comprehend.
Apologies for not wading back into the ocean of comments, but to whoever made the comment about escape artistry, I would beg to disagree. If both hands were cuffed to the chair, then it would be escape artistry. One hand is just a deterrent and the free hand could be used to pick the lock. I'd say it's more likely Hardison, already on edge from all the reveals, panicked. However, as I write this, it occurs to me to wonder: Can you actually pick a lock under water?
1) Did no one bother to check in to the hopefully future first lady's past? Seriously? She just appears out of nowhere, and everyone's cool with it?
There was a brief conversation between Nate and Hardison when Sophie as Rebecca announced the engagement that led me to believe that Hardison was on his way to the computer to set up the backstory for Rebecca so that by the time anyone checked there would be an established identity to find with a history. He's got mad skillz that way, ya know.
BTW loved both episodes and have to admit that I was dreading what would happen with Eliot. But that bad person he may have been back in the day...well, that was then, this is now. He's not the same guy anymore and he's tried to make up for the past.
I don't have a problem with not knowing exactly what Eliot did in the past or how bad it was.
All that matters --to me anyway--is that he does not want to be that person any more and is trying to make up for it as best he can.
As to the warehouse gunfight...those were not innocent men and they intended to kill Eliot, Nate, and the Italian. Just escaping was not likely going to stop that.
ok, have to remind myself to breath wile watching it. No Q's so far, but I agree with my fellow grifters, best finally ever. ' I have a 24 old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority.' great...best line of the season. but the warehouse scene, whooohooo. was it just me or did I see a lil'bit of 'Billy' flashing up in Kane. ( sorry just the Kaniac in me)
U guys realllly do blow shit up, right. Much love to the whole team as usual....
@evening-shadow Water doesn't really interfere with the workings of a conventional, purely mechanical lock, so there's not much reason you couldn't pick on while underwater. However, it's really difficult because you can't hear the tumbler click into place, so you need really sensitive hands and a calm mind. Difficulty is further compounded by the fact that he's got to pick and apply torque with the same hand, not to mention that he's kind of in the middle of drowning. Plus, Hardison is the hacker. Even if he could do all that (unlikely), it's not at all certain that he's even carrying the right kind of lockpick for the job.
Parker, on the other hand, would've been out of those cuffs in an eyeblink.
@Tori: Sorry, I disagree. Eliot has been (and to some extent, still is) a professional soldier. He is trained to kill, and he accepts that as part as the life.
He's not doing the "once you kill someone, everything changes." bit. He's well past that.
He's someone who would know, when you go into a fight, you be prepared to kill or be killed.
This is not someone who when faced with "the worst thing he did" walked away from the life. He didn't enter a monastery, or swear off violence or take on a code against killing. He just left and became his own boss so he'd only have to kill the people he chose, rather than the ones someone else told him to.
WV: hexached - what happened wehen you cast too many freeze spells to soon.
@Video Beagle just above, that's a very good summation of Eliot. After all, when Dubenich hired him, thus launching the Leverage team, he was still doing the retreving/hitting gig, not sitting in a rocking chair on his porch watching his corn grow.
Plus, he has to know that every time he wades into a fight on a job, there's a good chance someone's gonna die. He's still perfectly willing to kill, just for different reasons.
And @Guru, yep, definitely shades of Rodriguez in that warehouse scene.
As to the harness that Eliot was wearing, on yet another watching, I thought it looked like a brace of knives, much like the ones he saw him with in "Rashomon."
And a question for Rogers: Just how many guns with his fingerprints on them did Eliot leave in that warehouse? Or can we assume they burned up in the fire?
I would like to start with something serious. I don't claim to have any concept of how Emmy nominations work (I am Canadian and I'm not in "the biz") but if anyone at Leverage & TNT has any braincells at all they'll send in BBJ for Christian because after that? After this? It's been long enough just waiting to get the man a part he can actually prove his worth with, but after BBJ he has so much more than proven himself...the man deserves an award for that performance. No. Seriously. Get on it Rogers.
As for questions (and it's so hard once there are already 284 comments to try and come up with something original) I only have these:
1)In the park scene when Parker asks Eliot what he's done (and GOD that was just perfect - tone, lines, angles, just PERFECT) and he's a little teared up (God Christian breaks my heart when he cries) and then we see SHE's a little teared up...was that supposed to happen or was Beth tearing up because Christian did? I know I teared up because Christian did
2)Were the Firefly references intentional? Between Atherton (cleared name I'm sure) and the whole Eliot = Sheppard Book thing going on I'm starting to think you take too many lunches with Joss!
3)Was I supposed to get a Broken Arrow vibe on the train with the bomb? Because plucky girl + competent boy + train + bomb...it kinda felt that way
4)Was this the plan the whole time or did it just sort of happen as you got closer to the end? I'm sure if I went and re-watched the season I'd see hints laid out...but how much of this finale was really in the works all the way along?
5)Did you worry about how fans would react to the "new" Eliot you've shown here or did you pretty much figure we could take it? (Personally? I think it was perfectly written and fantastically acted and it all fit with my original idea of Eliot so it's all good)
6)Any hints at all on what the major arc of season 4 will be? You've cleared everything up from season 3 (I think)...nothing to carry over really. Where DO you go from here?
Thanks for another amazing season! And thanks for doing these Q&A posts...gotta love the fan/writer interactions!!
Ok, now that I've actually finished watching them twice... 1) "Argument" between Parker/Hardison re: "everything explodes" = priceless. And the fact that Parker's right = awesome. 2) Eliot + guns = epic. Also, more Eliot backstory (even if it is shadowy) = very well done. Yay for the dramatic side! :) 3) Ya'll've made various shippers happy. Very, very happy. 4) LOVED the ginger hitter. I wish that he and Eliot would've had a physical showdown. 5) Eliot half-shirtless? Thank you! :) 6) The dude who played Vittori = awesome. Where do you find these people?! 7) My only real question (which has probably been already asked/answered): How does Moreau go from not knowing Nate, to knowing his name, to not knowing who he is? I'm assuming that, if he knows who Nate is, he knows what he does (which would make the question "Who are you people?!" yelled from the jail cell a moot point). Thanks! :)
Thank you for not beating us over the head with the Neurolinguistic Programming howtos again. It's enough that we know what she's doing and have the fun watching it work.
And trying it ourselves on unsuspecting friends and relatives.
VB and SueN, I agree re: Eliot. I don't see him as tortured or eaten alive by his past. This guy has been engaged in violence apparently for the better part of his adult life, and in our three years of watching him, his regret seems fairly narrowly tied to the "worst thing he ever did," which is strongly hinted to be killing an entire family.
The original model for Eliot was Jason Bourne, and you can definitely see that in both characters there is a moral code but there is also a fierce ability to move forward and keep going no matter what - both physically and emotionally.
And that is not a criticism. That's his character, and it's interesting and it's SO MUCH BETTER than draping him in the woobie blanket, which is what many viewers seem to want to do (not pointing at you ToriA, just speaking in general).
For one thing, you really can't be that good and that effective in Eliot's line of work unless you can keep moving forward no matter what. Eliot is exactly what he has to be to be the best hitter in the Leverage universe. Hurt/comfort fanfic Eliot or woobie Eliot just is not going to cut it there. The whole team would be dead if canon Eliot resembled that "other" Eliot.
And just from a dramatic standpoint, the deadly super soldier is a such a nice contrast to heart-on-his-sleeve-wreck-at-any-moment Nate, and the daffy Parker, the outrageous Hardison and the calming but at times uncentered Sophie. Each character has a distinctive role, and they definitely have nuance within the boundaries of those roles, but it's very effective in the ensemble dynamic for everyone to have more of a clear cut part to play.
By no means am I saying Eliot is not prepared to deal with the consequence of killing. I'm also not saying he's wracked with guilt over what he did. I'm saying it clearly disturbs him. Look at his anxiety at the prospect of killing in this episode. Look at how he hides his deeds until the last minute from the others. If he had it to do over again, he wouldn't blink an eye because it had to be done. But if there weren't going to be consequences for him, why would it be such a big deal in the first place?
Brooding like Angel is not the sort of consequence I'm thinking about. That's not Eliot. Revisiting who he was is not a fun job, and I think if he was able to kill without revisiting (and look at him gun down the last henchman without blinking!), there would be absolutely no point to the buildup. It's messy and dirty and Eliot is prepared to deal with it, yes. That doesn't make it okay. It's a little like when Nate started drinking again as part of a con. Rogers has said several times that he's trying not to kill. Sophie tells him "You're not that man anymore." Nate says "He may have to be." That's what I'm talking about.
golly. maybe im just easier to please, but in terms of the ending, with N/S. I dont think it did them some kind of injustice. Much as I'd like to have seen a little more interACTION so to speak, at the same time, the timing didnt call for it.
in terms of them being drunk... i think people forget that the characters that make up this team are FUCKED UP. they are broken people, everyone of them. so getting them into normal romantic swelling music fireworks and candlelight relationships is next to impossible for them. theyve all made some great strides in the last few seasons, but to expect this great NORMAL romance from any of them i think is an unreasonable expectation.
and frankly, even if it had to take a couple of drinks to get them there, N/S GOT THERE. together. and i love it.
in terms of Sophie's real name, I'm not sure I caught it. And while I'm dying to know what it is, I also don't mind what it is. Cos I really doubt that after 3 seasons and their loyal (and sometimes ravenous) following that they will stop referring to her AS Sophie on the show. they could name her Mona Lisa and no one would stop calling her SOPHIE.
My only two "comments" on the episode per se are this, and maybe John will even answer them...
1. In BBJ, Moreau doesnt know Nates name and tries forever to get it out of him. In SLJ, he immediately addresses him as Mr. Ford. But again at the end asks, Who are you?? This is confusing.
2. There is no question the amazing skill and badassery of Eliot's first onscreen gunfight. However. The only thing I had a hard time with was that these people are out to kill him and anytime he crosses, they shoot. Until... right before the big slide. He comes out, and stands before them for like... a solid minute, minute and a half. and they just... hold their fire. Now I realize this was totally for dramatic tension but.. eh. my brain didnt wanna wrap around the not-likelyness of it.
Now. aside from that. the finale was amazing. The guest star who became president was totally enchanting, Alastair was a great bumbling baddie, Goran was a PERFECTTTTT Moreau (Hello??!? Anyone watch Practical Magic lately? the guy is CREEPY), Elisabetta AND Jeri need to come back and bring some kick ass girl power (i dont wanna hear it from the girl haters, sick of hearing it)
all and all, great finale. looking forward to more.
and frankly, even if it had to take a couple of drinks to get them there, N/S GOT THERE. together. and i love it.
Amen to that! :), we've waited a while, but they have got there, WOOOOO :) and it is the sort of Fucked up and that N/S would haven't it any other way ;)
Sorry, I figured out a way to say what I've been meaning to say. Sorry I'm being so long-winded!
Much of the time, soldiers don't simply learn to deal with killing as part of life. On the contrary, they know better than anyone the cost of killing. I've known many a man to come back from war a gentler person. This is why PTSD is so common in the military. It's not just because their own lives are in danger, it's because, when it becomes difficult to distinguish friend from foe, some people lose sight of what makes their enemy the enemy. They are shooting at a person they don't know, someone who is merely fighting for their own country. Someone who, for some reason, hates them. It shakes a person's belief in a sense of order to the world. That's what makes it so traumatizing.
Go to the other end. Suppose one learns to kill without those emotional consequences. Killing without emotional consequences is not a sign of a healthy outlook on life. It is a bad, bad, bad thing. It makes people like Eliot and other men who worked for Moreau. Did Eliot learn to kill without emotional consequence? Maybe. But at some point, those consequences must have caught up with him. At some point, his sense of morality must have kicked in, because Dubenich didn't hire an assassin--he hired a thief.
So Eliot has to kill ten or fifteen guys with guns to save one of his closest friends and moral anchors. Is he going to be able to do that without switching off those emotional consequences? That strong sense of morality telling him that these guys may be worse than he is, but he was only feet away from becoming them when he turned his life around? I really, really hope not. Because if Eliot can kill without the slightest sense of remorse, he just became who he used to be. That, in and of itself, is an emotional consequence, and one that would need to be dealt with.
From a moral standpoint, it's been a few years (presumably) since he's killed, and now that he has killed, how much easier will it be for him to kill again? That's something he'll have to live with. If he can kill for a good reason, it's easier now for him to kill for a bad reason.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions- 1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions- 1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions- 1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
Apologies for multiple posting - the engine kept telling me my comment was not posted because it was too long. Sorry, but I have no way of correcting/deleting it now.
@bluehex: Nate and Eliot would be in different circles, but not always. Eliot was a retrieval specialist. Sometimes he's retrieving stuff that's being taken from IYS..sometime's he's retread stuff for them.
Not that a story wouldn't be interesting, but I wonder if it's anything more than "Here's the statue you asked for, Mr. Ford."
@VideoBeagle: I understand about Eliot potentially retrieving IYS insured stuff, but still – stylistically and emotionally, Nate seems to belong in Sophie/Parker world rather than Eliot’s.
@Tori, I very much agree with you (I was taking issue with the "he couldn't have killed a family/child/whatever because he's not a psychopathic killer" statement.
He is clearly haunted by some of the things he's done (go back to the end of "Scheherazade" when he's sitting at that table with Jane; that's a man wrestling with his past). We've seen more regret from him this season than we ever have before. And the park scene in BJJ basically turned that regret into an open wound.
Eliot knows who and what he is, he knows what he's done, and he knows it's not good. Now, he doesn't agonize over it on a daily basis, he doesn't wallow in guilt, and he doesn't spend hours mulling over "what might have been." He made his decisions and choices for better or worse, and he accepts the consequences. One of the differences between him and Nate is that he's not crippled by his past.
At the same time, he doesn't want to be that man any more. Being with the team has opened a new path to him, and he's happily (or as happy as Eliot gets *g*) walking it. He considers himself beyond redemption, but atonement is still an option, as is trying to keep others from making his mistakes (see the kid in "Underground Job").
But that man who used to work for Moreau, and God knows who else, is still in there, and he is still capable of grim and dirty deeds. He'll let that man out if he has to, but he will hate like hell having to do it, he'll hate like hell that his family has to see it, and he will be pissed as hell at whoever forced him to let the bad man off his leash.
Eliot's not a woobie by any stretch of the imagination, but he's still human enough to be appalled by some of the things he's done. And, yes, that park scene showed us a man who is appalled. And ashamed. I don't think he wants his family to know all the things he's done. I think he wants to be a man who doesn't have to do those things any more. And Moreau took all that away from him.
Also, his being a soldier, which he clearly is to his core, doesn't mitigate his remorse. Soldiers do dirty, terrible things all the time (goes with the job) and seldom have any choice. But that doesn't mean it doesn't leave a mark (I echo your example of soldiers returning with PTSD).
For Eliot, the worst part may well be that at one point he did have a choice. He wasn't serving his country then, he was serving Moreau and himself. And he could've walked away sooner than he did. He just chose not to.
@SueN-If anything, I'd think his fingerprints would be better detected on the guns after they'd been on fire.
@24jg13-Advancements in forensics technology have made fingerprint mutilation increasingly difficult to pull off, as even severely damaged fingers will provide investigators with clues.
This is probably a bit left field but had you guys been reading any David Eddings when you came up with "Rams Horn" as the project name for the bomb? IIRC, Sparhawk (the hero) diffuses an entire war with that as a password.
If not, then great minds think alike I guess. Oh, and thanks for another great season.Can't wait for Season 4.
Someone asked how Hardison got the keys in the pool. Since a desk chair really has no place next to the pool, I'd surmise Moreau has used this tactic before and any one of his men could have tossed the keys in after Eliot passed the test. I regret having looked away at that precise moment. Every one of the actors in this Finale brought their "A" game. Hardison realizing that he really isn't the "Bad" criminal that Eliot is.Eliot showing his true colors as more of a professional than I think the Leverage team gave him credit for, [the great part about this is that Nate will respect his skills more, with the rest of the team still in the dark]Parker not losing site of her own reality, understandably so, when you live with so much pain, it makes sense to spin it to your benefit. Sophie letting down her guard a bit, and Nate standing toe to toe with the "Big Bad".I could see him becoming less intimidated by the Italian as we approached this confrontation with Moreau, and all I could have asked for was that Moreau's men be more evil,if that's possible. Looking for that in Season 4. It's not likely that just because Moreau is locked away, that some of his connections won't start looking in Ford's direction for vengeance. I love how Gina does the "and scene" when Sophie's "acting", just surprised to see her "acting" and not "grifting" the part of the grieving widow. Totally agree that playing the death scene, eyes open was risky... would love more of this "Sophie can sell anything when she really has to". HPT41 Container is pretty heavy duty corregated, but I'll bet there was something a bit denser inside, and we see at the end of the "slide" Spencers steel barrel piercing incendiary rounds igniting the explosives, nice touch taking out the "warning graphic" in our site line ;)Time is relative... 30 sec. to us could have been a split second in the warehouse.When did the writer's realize that Eliot would need help [hydraulic fluid] to slide that far?Many of Moreau's men had no doubt only heard of the Spencer Legend, and perhaps hesitated for a moment thinking he would spare their lives, maybe he was still one of them?The way Eliot came bursting into the hanger and straight for Moreau was his natural response, and gave us more reason to need a Mastermind with a plan to take out Moreau, illiminating the immediate threat against them, but still having access to information that perhaps only Moreau possesses? Moreau must have a soft spot for the Italian, are they related? From a spectators view, it's nice to not have to resurrect characters to bring them back in future episodes [Shower scene from "Dallas"] As for Nate/Sophie in bed together without the romantic buildup? We're talking about a grifter/thief and a insurance man/Mastermind, I don't think you can argue that this couldn't have happened sooner. I'd be willing to bet they were both drunk enough to assume that something happened, but in reality they were probably just sober enough to fall into bed. It would be hilarious to watch them in the future, trying to decipher what actually happened, similar to the Rashamon Job only more conjecture than fact. Interesting to see I wasn't the only one to think of Bruce Willis/Cybill Shepherd in Moonlighting when someone started whining about the lack of romance between N/S. We're dealing with hitmen, mafia and Insurance Companies... having an open relationship is like ordering a pair of concrete boots for your significant other...cont.
Finale..part II What's really fun about Leverage, is that after watching the first 3 seasons, it gets easier to pick out the foreshadowing. I remember having to watch the first 2 seasons more than once to catch everything. Now I'm seeing more the first time, like the four figures in SWAT-like gear,and I immediately assume, part of the team is involved. It must be getting more difficult for your writers to surprise us, but that makes it even more amazing when they do.I've read through these comments and questions, and for the most part, I've decided I don't want the answers. I love that I can watch Leverage intent on recognizing locations and Portland friends who are involved and be so swept up in the story, regardless of how fantastical it can be, that I enjoy every nuance, every expression. Did I mention how much I enjoyed the warehouse scene effects? Implausible or not, that was smokin'!! And I cheered right along with the rest of Portland when Bonanno appeared. But I do have one question; in the train sequence, what purpose do the grates overhanging the end of the cars serve, other than making it easier to jump from one to the next?Thanks again, John, for pulling it all together, spending so much time pre/post production with your fans. Now, let's go steal a New Year, it'd make a great cover for blowing shit up! Epic Captcha: Verig
Thank you for a really wonderful send-off for this season. On first watching I found the difference in pace between the two episodes quite off-putting, but on rewatching I really appreciated the fact you don't follow accepted norms and make the season finale an angst-ridden cliffhanger. Yet another reason to add to the 1,045 already existing to love this show.
At first I struggled a little with the way that in SLJ Moreau seemed to go from being the team's sinister and omnipotent nemesis to being just another guy in a suit - but you know, I think you were making a point there (what can I say, I'm a little slow). Not least of course that in BBJ the team had stripped him of much of his resources which were the source of his power, but also in that if one is used to being able to manipulate everybody around one, where can one go when one has been so beautifully outmanoeuvred by a twenty-four year old with a disdain for authority? Yet another piece of pertinent social commentary. :)
Christian Kane knocked it out of the park on BBJ: the interplay between Eliot and Parker in the park brought tears to my eyes (huge kudos to Beth too for that). As for the warehouse scene, I actually paused it as Eliot started his slide and found myself proclaiming out loud 'Ludicrous!' in just the same tone my dear father used to use at the ending of every Blake's 7 episode - while he waited eagerly for me to put the next video in. The belt buckle? MASTERFUL.
Loved the ending. Loved so many storylines coming together, not least pretzels. Oh, which reminds me: somebody further up the thread (I'm sorry but I can't remember who) mentioned that now they understand why Eliot was so grumpy throughout this season, and that was an epiphany for me: I really SHOULD know by now to trust you with these things, but I had been a little disappointed by what I felt was threatening to become a bit of a caricature of Eliot with the grumpiness (yes it's hilarious, but it has felt unremitting this season), and now I understand WHY. Please send Eliot Spencer to retrieve my Aragorn lunchbox next time I forget to relax and just trust you with these things. Mind you, he'd have a fight on his hands.
Loved the matrix style shoot out with Christian, since Christian choreographs the fight scenes did he come up with this idea and how many takes were shot, and last would you honestly tell us how many times Chris wiped out during the shoot and will any of the outtakes be on the DVD ?
Jon gotta ask, at the Con Con Gina Bellman said that at the end of season 3 her real name was going to be engraved on the dog tag style necklace she has been wearing throught the season, she wasn't wearing the necklace in the finale so will we see it in season 4 ?
What location filled in for San Lorenzo's exteriors? Italy? It definitely didn't look like Portland :) Thanks for helping to create another great season of Leverage!
I like the split season, but the mid-season finale almost always seems somewhat anti-climactic to me since its such a long wait until new eps. The big finales like this one definitely help tide a person over.
Has any thought been given to going with two mini-seasons a year as opposed to a single split season? So that you have 6-8 eps with the last two being a big blockbuster finale in the summer and then rinse and repeat in the winter?
You could also do an arc like the Moreau one in a single mini-season, so the tension is consolidated over a short time. I like the idea of the ccasional "big bad," but it seems tough for any show to stretch that out over a full season. It tends to get spotty no matter who does it. It might be fun to have two mini-seasons, and one could be more stand-alone eps with a big finale and the other could be one with a single villian that the team has to deal with from eps 1 to 6-8.
(And if one of those villians had to be Moreau coming back for his revenge, I could live with that.)
Is it that the team keeps getting better ang better or their enermy gets weaker?
I get the feelings that taking down this Russion guyis not as hard as I expected
When they were dealing with Sterling or Tony in pervious season finales they got shot, caught and they were forced to blow up their own place and seprate for sometime, but this time their plan gose so smoothly especially in ep16...
Poor Merou just sit there and wait to be caught. He can't touch any of them from the beginning, and the only one time he got Nate is because Nate wants to have a word with the former President.
Of coure I really love to see them win in the end, and Eliot's JAMES BOND sence is really cool. but I was hoping Merou to be more tough to deal with.
I remember when I watched the CATCHUP vedio for season 3 before the HOHOHO job on TNT website , there is a sentence that I strongly agree: The Bigger the CON , the Harder they FALL. And that's what we love about leverage what makes leverage a hot TV show...unpredictable and full of surprises.
Actually I thought about what will happen in the finale, but among so many guesses, I never though it would be a happy ending.(Well...at least a happy ending for Nate and our First Lday :)
Season 3 is fantastic and looking forward to Season 4
Well Rogers, if you're still reading by this point I applaud you, there's three hundred and twenty odd (and some are really odd, My Little Pony, seriously?? :-) ) comments ahead of this one.
First, thank you and the whole cast and crew for another great season. If you want to come to Denver and take up all the parking here for awhile I won't mind in the least!
Second, I also thought of David Eddings when Ram's Horn was mentioned, glad to know I wasn't the only one. And yes I was waiting to hear the general's name was actually Atherton Wing (though the body in the morgue was stabbed ... hmm)
I do have a question about distances and timing, Sophie and Vittori are in one place at the end of the election. She states she will deal with the security guards coming for Matthew and gets him into the crowd where she is then "shot". Right before this happens, Sophie says she needs help and Elliot says he is out of position.
At the reveal later, we see it's Eliot and Flores who were the "shooters" however Eliot and Parker had to break Flores and his group out of the Tombs under the palace. So where is the palace in relation to where Sophie and Matthew were that Elliot and Parker could effect a rescue and still get back in time to shoot Sophie? The timing of all of that was weird for me.
Had another realization tonight...after seeing the gun battle & what Eliot is capable of, it brought me back to the Eliot introduction scene from Nigerian Job. What happened in the room after Eliot walks in was never shown, just a bunch of gunfire from outside. Does anyone else think that Big Bang was what happened in that room when Eliot "retrieved the merchandise"?
In SLJ, at 17 minutes in (time including commercials), when Moreau and El Presidente are discussing Vittori's speech... Moreau says "was very odd... it was good." And as he realizes "something's going on," there's a music cue that starts with a very distinctive three notes.
I swear those three notes are quoted from Lalo Schifrin's scoring for _Mission: Impossible_. M:I's score used that little riff often in similar circumstances. (Original series, and maybe the Australian revival too... movies? Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.)
The whole episode had a bit of an M:I feel, what with going into another country to rescue political prisoners and kick out the evil dictator, etc.
But just a bit. The IMF never let themselves have this much fun!
It could just be me, but I assumed he just jumped behind a box full of metal plates or something. They are, after all, in the middle of a warehouse filled with aviation items.
In my dreamworld, S4 focuses on Parker and Hardison, with the season finale cliffhanger being that Moreau is free & has formed an Evil League of Evil of past Leverage villains. Can you imagine Danny Strong, Wil Wheaton, and Saul Rubinek all in the same episode? Add in a cameo by one of the Supernatural boys and the television would explode from the sheer awesomeness of it all.
en re Moreau's final "Who are you people?" line from the jail cell:
I took it more as just because he knows Nate Ford's name and who he was/is in the crime world, doesn't mean he knows what Nate Ford + team DOES. Remember in Two Live Crew when it was established that the crime world thinks Nate runs the "toughest crew this side of the Atlantic"?
If Moreau thinks that Nate's a criminal with the same motivations as himself, then it would be very understandable that he would want to shout "Who are you?" in much the same way Sterling admitted (when asked about Nate in MFJ by the FBI guy "Who is this guy?") "I don't know."
It's not so much about knowing WHO the person is, but rather not knowing what motivates them. This makes them wild cards.
And when you think the world should play by your rules because you have guns and money ...
OH! And the whole thing about Hardison picking a lock:
Rodgers said that's part of the whole criminal handbook thing. Everyone can pretty much do it. Doesn't mean Hardison had the necessary stuff with him at the time. Parker definitely would have, but not Hardison.
With the warehouse scene, I think the whole crew was drawing on everything action from the dawn of the western. It's the epitome of why action movies work and why we all love Eliot so much even though he has done some very bad things.
I just watched SLJ again, and I can't say enough about how much fun it is. It's such a great contrast in tone to BBJ.
I think what I love most is that it really shows just how good the team is. We've seen them take down bad guys before, seen those bad guys slowly unravel as their worlds begin to collapse, but this time it happened despite the Big Bad knowing a) who they were and b) why they were there. It was just a wonderful up-tempo ride, especially after the soul-wrenching BJJ.
But I do have one question: How did Parker get down that steam vent? And how badly did Eliot's head explode when he discovered she had?
Did Goran Visnjic know what the smear ad with the puppy was going to be before the filming? He has a smirk on his face that seems a little out of character. Or is he just laughing at the president?
Late to the party (tooo many comments to wade through until now), but I'll throw my hat into the ring for the Eliot-killer thing. Especially now that y'all appear to have settled it. ;)
I agree with most of what was said (apart from the beating kids to death: NO. Eliot would not ever do that. Kill, yes – and that's more than enough reason for a permanently blackened soul. But he'd do it cleanly and quickly, and there's no suggestion that it's par for Moreau's thugs to torture families before killing them. The mere threat that opposing him will destroy your family is enough, one assumes. More than that is fanfiction-levels of OTT.)
As I understand it, Eliot maintained his ethic of violence as an appropriate response. These men were here to kill them, and there was no way of stopping them without killing them, and the only way to kill them all efficiently was to shoot them. (And, yeah, the slide bit was kind of ridiculous, but it also kind of tactically makes sense, at least in tv world – as someone said, low, moving, and turning the enemy's cross-fire into covering fire for himself. It looked like he shot the box of lubricant intentionally. Gotta love that Eliot looks at a kill box and decides to make it work for him.)
Having kept to that ethic, having judged it necessary, is probably the main determinant of how guilty he feels over something he did, even more than what that thing IS. He's worked through the good/bad reasons issue a long time ago; we've never seen him second-guess the actions he's taken, which means he's aware of this as he makes the decisions. This wasn't a "lapse"; it was a decision. Which means that he's not any more likely to kill in the future just because he killed now. That would make it an addiction, which it clearly is not.
So much for the issue of killing itself. Here's the other thing: it was made a particular point that EVERY ONE of Moreau's men have done worse things than Eliot. Given that he asked Eliot to kill Atherton, it looks like he runs that kind of moral check on anyone working for him, and repeats as needed, not to mention business as usual. Under Moreau, every one of these guys have killed children and will do so again. So, no, I don't think Eliot will be agonizing over killing them at all. He knows exactly who he killed. After all, it's implied he used to run them, or was at least offered the job. He just saved kids' lives (with Moreau down, they'd only get employment elsewhere), and if that ain't picking up where the law left off, I don't know what is. It's not a slippery slope to Eliot becoming a vigilante killer (see above), but sometimes you need an executioner.
Final note (which no one was arguing about): I got the sense that the idea behind the stand-up-and-stare-down was justified by his reputation; that the name Eliot Spencer bought enough awe among these guys for him to command the space and freak them out just a little more, and use it.
On the other hand (and I am seriously stunned that there haven't been more comments about this, AND that I'M the one harping on it this time around), maybe they were all just entranced by The Hair. Because damn. I've never cared much about it one way or another before this, but these two episodes, somehow it was just stunning (even got its own slow-mo moment). Kane completely, utterly nailed his scene in the park, and somehow that damn hair was upstaging him. I call an official WTF.
Re: the belt buckle - looks like one Kane has worn before to me, from his own wardrobe? (Which makes it sound like I go stalking him, which I do not. I just have a lot of friends who appreciate the pretty, and they like to share photos, and the belt buckle looks vaguely familiar.)
Re: Kane in general - what DOES he prefer to be called? Kane, Christian, Chris, Hey you? I keep seeing various names used in different places.
I'm fascinated by how much romanticizing of Eliot goes on in these discussions, particularly with regard to BBJ.
Yes, the Eliot we know nowwon't kill children, but the Eliot of old seems more than capable of that, and more. Most of what we learned about him via Moreau is so ambiguous, we can't be sure of anything.
To my mind, there are two ways to interpret the scene where the Busey says they usually kill the family: one being that Moreau knows Eliot's rule is not to kill children, and the other is that Moreau knows this Eliot, versus the one who worked for him, won't kill the rest of the family. One is as feasible as the other given what we saw.
What tips the balance, for me, in favor of the latter is that it's pretty clear from the airport scene Moreau had already twigged that Eliot was wearing a white hat of late, and the otherwise pointless mission to kill Atherton was as much a cat playing with a toy as Moreau testing Eliot's word. He had his fun without setting any conditions that would require him to brook any resistance from Eliot. It was a very calculated move, indeed.
Loved the episodes. They were over the top, but entertaining.
Will we ever get to see Eliot get seriously injured? He goes through a lot and seems to come out unscathed each time.
Has Eliot ever murdered a child?
Would Sophie have taken a real bullet for Vittori/the people? She's always had a kind streak, but seems to have turned a lot more caring since The King George Job.
Lastly, there's been hints all along that some of the team has darker pasts, and now it seems like Eliot has a black hole for his. Will we ever get emotionally hurting team members the way we did when Sophie betrayed them way back when?
Are the name of the con schemes that mention in various episodes real? I guess the Monalisa variant is probably quite real but how about the other name.
1) Like everyone else, thinking about the Ocean's Eleven parallels, specifically the elevator.
2) Did you change the filming style of #316 on purpose to have of a European look? I don't know how else to classify it, but there's a particular graininess, and lighting quality that you usually only see in British/Euro shows and movies.
I have to agree with most of the the people who posted here that it was 2 hours of great television! You are a gift to television and to us for bring this show onto our screens. I am going to list my favorite bits 'cause just because: 1) of course the warehouse scene. Eliot's comment could have come from a reference - I don't know that much other stuff as a bunch of the other people seem to know however it did remind me of a quote from the TV series Highlander: Methos comments 'just because I don't fight doesn't mean I can't' after kicking some ass And I have to say I wanted to see Eliot pick up a gun. Although I was hoping he would have been a better crack shot, it would have been cooler if he could have taken down more guys. But then you would not have that awesome slide. Also we had been shown that each of these people are the best at what they do. Every week we are witness to Hardison doing something unbelievable on his computer or Parker pulling of the impossible. I wanted to see Eliot do what he did best and this was proof that he is the best that is out there. I did not get the belt reference so I would love it if someone could explain - if there is anything to explain. 2) I for some reason love the puppy scandal - the whole thing had me laughing out loud, CK's interaction with the puppy to Goran V. holding onto his mirth as he obviously knew it was like a big joke. His reaction to the thing showed me that might have been the reason Eliot and Damien sort of getting along, he gets a joke, even if it is on his expense - or am I reading to much into it? To Nate's gestures to the candidates "I think I hate you" comment the whole thing was great. 3)I think this was two great episodes for CK he acted out his heart. The park scene was great, his whole acting in the first part was great but my favorite was his look towards Parker in the San Lorenzo job - it just showed his love for her, just like an older brother would look upon his sister. You know that this guy would die, kill for her! Just loved it! I have a concern about a bit in the end where Hardison asks where is your luggage and Eliot says 'I don't travel with luggage' why make that comment? These guys have traveled to a lot of places before and we know that Eliot had different stuff with him, we know he has luggage - just seemed out of place for me. Sorry for the long rambling - these comments are not worthy of a great writer like you... but thank you for giving us a place to ask and question your genius.
@zeyneb-Not sure what belt reference you meant but Kane has worn several of his own clothing items and jewelry in various roles. He has a bracelet that's been in just about everything he's done since his Angel days. And I'm not 100% positive but the belt buckle he wore in that slide scene looks like it could be the same one he wore in the sword fight scene in the Angel episode "You're Welcome".
I read through all 346 comments and only one person mentioned something that bugged me,but that person didn't elaborate so I had to post here. Everyone was wondering how killing those guys affected Elliot, but nobody noticed that Parker and Hardison killed two guys without a backwards glance. When they punched the guys out in the train and than blew the car up there was no possible way they dragged two unconscious guards out and saved their lives. As for Elliot killing people, hes killed people on leverage. At the beginning of the second episode when he gets the call that they have a case while hes working another job, he has just killed someone and than he kills the other guy after he asks him if his mother has his number. If you chop someone in the neck like that you dont knock them unconscious, you kill them. Also, why he doesnt like guns. He explains that in the Miracle Job. "they have a specific range of ethicasy" you get to close to someone and they can use your weapon against you.
Mr Rogers, didn't think that I'd see a sensitive Eliot scene that I liked more that The Tap Out Job (Eliot/Sophie - "I'm losing a fight, not throwing myself on a grenade") but the whole "Parker don't ask what I did" was so well acted that the Tap Out Job is a distant memory. My question is - when will the season 3 DVD be out as I can't wait for the commentary on the warehouse gun scene even though I know it's going to cost me far to much money to get it shipped to the UK. I used to work for the company that own Jameson so if you make it over for the Leverage Con in the UK next year there's a bottle of Jameson Gold with your name on it. Cheers Kirstie
@Kirstie - bribing John Rogers with liquor? You are a smart gal, lol.
Not going to scroll back through to see who left the comment, but whoever clarified that the line in the car was "stolen in Virginia" rather than "still in Virginia" - thanks!! Re-watched that scene after your post, and realized his accent just tripped me up on that line. Appreciate the assist.
All my pretentious musings for this season finale revolve around Eliot for some reason. I've been looking at the previous stories, and how we've seen for the last 3 years Eliot not killing people, just knocking the crap out of them, and then seeing him just outright killing the hell out of a room full of heavies, dispatching the first one with his bare hands in under a second... and I've come to the conclusion that Eliot is purposely making things hard on himself most of the time.
He could have just killed many of the henchmen he's faced. He could have just snapped necks, broken backs, driven bone into brain, and not doing that, just knocking these guys out probably eliminates some of the comfort zone they need to complete a job. It's probably caused him to take a lot of punishment he could have saved himself if he went for the kill.
Eliot's penance isn't just to help people and keep the team safe, it's to make these jobs really hard on himself, and not kill unnecessarily.
I loved how Parker had a moment with each character - with Eliot in the park, 'Pretzels' with Hardison, 'Very, very drunk' with Nate, and Sophie's Turkish-taxi driving. And I appreciate the new twist in duct crawling. But I was puzzled how she could describe steam as 'a dry heat.'
Parker is indeed growing, but she's still crazy.
But my question is this, if the Italian wasn't under the covers between Nate & Sophie, then did she spend the night with Eliot?
@Anonymous-Somewhere on the 130 tagged Leverage threads on this blog, John Rogers left a comment about that scene from the pilot episode. I don't have the time or patience to seek it out but the gist was that Eliot did not kill those men. He knocked them out with those moves.
Hi John - Absolutely great episodes! Kudos to you and the team!
Only one question that I don't think has been asked as of yet: I notice that Damian Moreau wore a wedding ring. Any chance of meeting Mrs. Moreau in the future? Would she be angry at the team for locking Damian away, thankful that they freed her? Any chance there's some history between Eliot and Mrs. Moreau?
Thanks for another fun season. Yours is BY FAR the best show on the tube!
@Denita, Of course John also said Eliot broke into the house at the end of The Order 23 Job and killed Randy's abusive Dad by making it look like he choked on a pretzel.
Of course, he may have been kidding about that one.
Too many questions to read through! I can't even imagine you having to answer them all so I'm not going to ask one. I just wanted to say that after watching these two episodes a few times, I am even more blown away with the scene in the park in the Big Bang Job. Everyone acted the hell outta that scene. I noticed it with Beth and Christian the first time but watching it the second time I realized how they ALL acted the hell outta that scene. It also showed how strong a team they are now. I was originally disappointed that 'Harker' didn't happen in the season finale but after watching it the second time I realized if they had it would have been too big of a jump for them. Parker admitting feelings and being interested in 'pretzels' and Hardison realizing what that meant - was a good payoff for this season. But if they vacation together of the 'break' I wouldn't be too upset lol
Thank you SO much for leaving on an upbeat note and with closure instead of an angsty cliffhanger like the last two seasons. I'll miss Leverage until Season 4 comes back on!
So I just caught a rerun of The Big Bang Job and I realized why I so dearly love Elliot's slide through the airplane lubricant (other than its own intrinsic awesomeness). Forget The Matrix or The Transporter or La Femme Nikita or Equilibrium or any action movie. That slide was straight from the finale of Strictly Ballroom. And that is utterly cool.
Okay. After watching it on Sunday, then again via DVR tonight. I have one thing to say. HOTTEST. GUN BATTLE. EVAR. It may have looked like he was sliding through water or some other liquid, but we all know Christian was sliding through the drool of his fangirls.
I’m gonna disagree with you on the reason that Eliot’s not killing people with his bare hands, right and left, with his bare hands. He’s not punishing himself or doing penance. First, I think that Eliot just plain doesn’t like to kill people. More importantly from a plot POV, he’s thinking strategically in addition to tactically. If bodies started piling up around all of the team’s cons, they couldn’t do what they do. Cops aren’t going to care if some thugs got beaten up by a bunch of con men. They were thugs. OTOH, dead bodies showing up is evidence of MURDER. Eliot knows that if he kills these guys, the cops that are going to eventually be brought into the mix are NOT going to take the view that “Maybe the guys that took down [Bastard in Suit] are crooks, but they did a good thing and we can let that go.” That is the essence of Nate’s relationship with Bonanno. If Nate’s crew was regularly producing dead bodies, Bonanno would be making it his life’s mission to take the team down…and he’d be right to do so.
Like I said above, I don’t think Eliot WANTS to kill all that hired muscle, but even if he didn’t care for their lives one wit, it’s still the smart play to avoid leaving a trail of bodies in your path.
@Aononymous, Oh, I know. I was being facet … facec … I was joking.
@ChelseaNH, Strictly Ballroom yes!! (Rogers, next season can we have the team steal a ballroom dance school? I want to see Eliot and Sophie get their nasty on again.)
But, seriously, no one has mentioned yet that the team went off to The Island of Mr. Moreau?
re: Eliot not killing Agreed. Eliot is thinking of the long term outcomes as well as the short term. Although I'd take it a step further and say he doesn't even like to use violence unless he has to. Again, that whole "appropriate response" thing. He doesn't use it unless there's no other option, and he uses only as much as he needs to get the job done. He's definitely keeping a check on himself, but penance is kind of too self-involved and pointless, since he doesn't believe redemption is possible for him.
And I was really glad someone brought up the two guys on the train. That is NOT the fun train.
@Anonymous The "dry heat" line is one from Aliens – Bill Paxton's character, Hudson, says it early on – and it's heavily sarcastic. What I wouldn't give for a "Game over, man! Game over!"
Oh, and the thing with the fingerprints on the guns – I'm not clear on why anything would retain fingerprints after being on fire, given that fingerprints are caused by the oil on the raised ridges of skin being left on a surface. The oil would just burn off. And for the same reason not everything will take a print. I remember reading somewhere, and goodness knows where, that because guns have a film of oil on them, they don't tend to take prints at all.
@Jugglernaut - If you have them all, my suggestion is to simply watch them in order. I have favorite episodes, but for someone who hasn't seen them before, in order is best, in my opinion.
@Nina May-It's less of an oil and more of an acid that leaves a fingerprint on a gun. And it wasn't just the guns he left prints on, it was the clips, too.
Thanks — I've seen all the eps once now, although somewhat out of order, so I've got the main chronology and themes covered. Now I can pick and choose favorites for fun. Keep 'em coming — I'm gonna be here a while! ;-)
@Denita – really? Fair enough, then. Like I said, I can't remember where I read it, so I can't find the source (or the validity of it!).
On the other hand, they haven't shown much concern for leaving fingerprints before now in LeverageLand. Maybe Hardison makes sure to erase all records of their fingerprints, so it doesn't matter how many are recovered by those hardworking CSI teams. They're only as good as their databases, and as we all know, Hardison is very much better than those.
@Jugglenaut, I have a soft spot for The Wedding Job, but The Two Horse Job, The Bank Shot Job, The 12 Step Job and the Davids finales are all brilliant from S1.
I've been through all the comments, so, I guess, so far, at least, I'm the only one who got a "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" vibe from the repeated "Who are you/ who are you guys" line. Anyone else?? Hey, JR, am I right with this homage?
@sandi_h – thank you, it’s been driving me crazy, I wrote way back about 200 comment I think that I remembered some movie or show where they said Who are you, but if I remember correctly with you reference, doesn’t Butch turn to Sundance and say “Who are those guys” cause they can track them over rock and stream and wherever they go?
1. The guards at the elevator didn't recognize Elliot before he told them his name, then the guards at the pool recognized that this was a guy that needed to have guns drawn at. Did the pool guys (other than the lead) recognize Elliot on site?
2. During the "friends" talk, Sophie kept hitting Nate on the chest with the flower. Was she using NLP? If so, what was her agenda?
3. Before Elliot leaves Nate's room he makes a comment about things being "back to normal." So was Sophie's "uh-oh" more directed to "what have we done" or to Elliot's comment on normalcy cause Nate and Sophie hooking up means nothing's back to normal?
I thought Eliot's "back to normal" was a reference to Nate's inebriated/hungover state. And I did think of "The Island of Mr. Moreau" but dismissed it after the only half-humans were his hench men. But we had to go there, no extradition style... not because Moreau was protected there, but because Eliot was. I think fingerprints on the guns/magazines/rounds never came into play. He knew, regardless of the outcome, it wouldn't matter. Even though I said in an earlier post I didn't want to know.. I'm still curious who it was Eliot killed before he met them, perhaps he's protecting them from himself? AND in other news: I don't know about y'all, but I can't wait to see all of the fan vids that come out of these last three EPS... ;)
I just had another thought (hey, it's either this, or go to a store on Christmas Eve … *shudder*).
We know Eliot doesn't want his family to know what he did in that warehouse, and we can understand why. But does he really believe they won't find out?
He just caused an explosion in a warehouse (ostensibly some kind of aviation-related warehouse) in Washington, DC, where they sort of take explosions seriously. Particularly since there had already been an explosion at a DoD facility, and, at roughly the same time, there was another explosion happening on a train. Homeland Security has to be in a frenzy.
Not to mention the cable news networks. Fox and CNN will be all over this. And once they discover the burning warehouse is also filled with dead bodies, well, the newsreaders are gonna be positively giddy.
There's some serious cleanup work to be done … which means Hardison. He's going to know. Chances are, they're all going to know.
I guess my question is, does he really think he can keep it from hem? Or is he just trying to buy himself a little time so he can compartmentalize everything before dealing with them?
Also … what the hell happens to Atherton? Yeah, they saved him from Moreau, but this is a former general who's been selling out his country to an international bad guy for years. He's a traitor. I just can't see the team, particularly Eliot, letting him skate away clean.
Can we assume another incriminating envelope was somehow delivered to the appropriate agency, and news footage we'll never see shows him being led off in handcuffs?
Can we assume another incriminating envelope was somehow delivered to the appropriate agency, and news footage we'll never see shows him being led off in handcuffs?
Or turn prosecution's witness? And into the witness protection program?
Okay, I just watched the Eliot gun battle -- I'm behind on my DVRed shows -- and I have to tell you, I'm guffawing. That was straight-up Eliot p0rn if ever there was any. Yeah, I know, gotta keep the fangirls squeeing and all that, but that was way closer to "Mission Impossible"/"Wolverine"/[insert your choice of action flick here] than I'd ever expected to see on "Leverage."
Granted, I'm a relatively new fan. There may have been a lot of "Mission Impossible"-style Eliot p0rn that I just haven't caught up with yet.
At any rate, I'm really enjoying the Parker/Hardison part!
We've been told all season long what a baddie Moreau is. At the finale I expected to SEE it.
Moreau never did ANYTHING to convince me he was worthy of all the fear. Just a tall handsome guy with a ton of EVIL GENIUS 101 props; bikini babes, army of goons & a private jet.
And everybody still yapping about the dangerous Moreau...
GV did as well as could be expected. The part was seriously under-utilized, under-written and neglected.
I hold you guys to a much higher standard. I'm disappointed.
Jeez, Beige, how much more evil/menacing can you get once you kick a guy handcuffed to a chair into a pol, then stand there swigging Scotch and smilingly negotiating with Eliot?
I think it's a fair point that Moreau collapsed like a fighter with a glass jaw.
On the other hand, I don't think the San Lorenzo job would have worked without Moreau beating a fast retreat, and shorn of the majority of his power. He only could have been taken down with a quick one-two punch landed in quick succession; give him time to think and reassess the situation, he could have re-established himself and be more of a threat.
I have now watched both episodes three times and I am simply amazed at how much story you got in each hour. I was remembering things happening during the BBJ episode and thinking they must have happened during the SLJ because there wasn't enough time in the BBJ, but yet there they were. Your writing is excellent.
Question: Who is the quicker draw, Raylan Givens or Eliot Spencer?
I think there should be a contest involving slow motion cameras. And both men should be shirtless. And smiling. Definitely shirtless and smiling.
@Christina: "Question: Who is the quicker draw, Raylan Givens or Eliot Spencer? "
With this, the micro-multiverse of Leverage cross-overs that exists within the snowflake of my mind just increased exponentially in size, yet out of the 196,833 Eliot Spencers in my head, all of them always draw first.
@Gordon: I can handcuff someone to chair and push them in a pool. That doesn't make me the biggest crime lord in the world. Had he just shot Hardison through the head, that'd be something. As is..he wasn't very crime lordy.
@Video Beagle, "As is..he wasn't very crime lordy."
Well, no, and I think that's sort of the point. Bernie Madoff wasn't very "crime lordy" either, but he stole some fifty billion dollars. When was the last time AIM or Kobra stole fifty billion dollars? I think the point of Moreau wasn't that he was a mustache twirling villain who cackled and wrung his hands with glee as he shackled Parker to his latest deathtrap...a printing press themed device that would be designed to print false dollars with the entrails of it's victims...um. What was I saying?
Moreau, right. Nate said it, he was just a businessman. His business was crime, only on a slightly larger scale than the guys they took out last season in Bellridge. Oh, sure, his size made him more dangerous, the same way a lion is more dangerous than a bobcat, but all the same, he operated on the same principles and frameworks. Kadjic owned a port, Moreau owned a country.
I think this may be why Chaos and Sterling are more interesting villains. They, like the Leverage team itself, are at a manpower disadvantage, so their plans are trickier, more novel. Moreau wasn't a different kind of threat, just a bigger one that require more effort to take down, not necessarily craftier effort.
So, while I won't say Moreau is my favorite bad guy we've seen the team take down, I think the expectations (which I myself had) that he was going to be more MODOK than Madoff make us think he was less evil or threatening than he really was.
What'll be interesting in season four is seeing the fallout from his empire crumbling. Who will be the scrappy Grand Admiral Thrawn that arises in the midst of the power vacuum? And if that person should happen to have a deathtrap courtesy of the Treasury, all the better!
There's one major problem with the whole "Moreau as undercooked crime lord" thesis, that being, Moreau is not a crime lord, nor was he ever sold to us as one.
Moreau is a crime financier, who keeps his distance and never gets his hands dirty. He's evil because he provides the means for evil to continue. Kadjic was a bog-standard crime lord, very simple and one-dimensional. Moreau is evil on a whole other plane; a puppetmaster pulling the strings, covering his tracks and seemingly keeping his hands clean.
The key to Moreau isn't in the pool scene; it's in the evil speech of evil in SLJ. His world view is totally amoral; he's simply a visionary businessman who can out maneuver all comers. But as the pool scene made clear, that means very little trust, and removing obstacles to his way of doing business. He's a cat playing with people for whom he has very little regard as though they were toys, which Eliot learned the hard way.
In the end, his conceit was his downfall, because it was his Achilles heel. That's what Nate figured out. He knew Moreau believed he could control everything in his orbit, and that he expected that what had always worked for him would continue to work for him. Nate simply introduced something new into the mix - Hardison - and Moreau's world collapsed like a house of cards.
I thought Moreau was a welcome change of pace from the hand-stompin', gun totin' baddies we've seen so often. And Goran Visnjic rocked the whole Bond baddie vibe from beginning to end. All he needed was a white cat or a laser (no, Mr. Ford, I want you to DIE!)
It's so great that Leverage producers and writers are all for what's in character and realistic when it comes to Nate and Sophie sex. I guess the Eliot fight scene was just as in character and realistic. How about you make the fight scenes realistic and the love scenes over-the-top romantic and sexy the next time Nate and Sophie decide to do it? ;)
Re: everyone confused about Moreau’s "Who are you" back and forth…
I agree with @Daisy that it’s knowing vs knowing, but skill instead of motivation. I read it as not knowing who he was the first time. Then he learned: "Nate Ford, crook with a small team doing good deeds yadda yadda yadaa… who isn't dead only because of Elliot" The second one (right at the end) was more of a "so I know you’re Nathan Ford, who runs this crew and does stuff, but now I see you as the guy who turned Elliot straight and bested me with your mastermind skills and crack team. Who the hell ARE you to be able to do that?!"
@gordon re: moreau: hear hear.
Also: I appreciate all the posters who take the time to read through all the comments before asking their questions – it’s what we’re expecting mr rogers to do, after all…
Gordon and JarodRussell - EXACTLY on Moreau. He wasn't a crime lord. He was a thoroughly amoral businessman who lost touch with his weaknesses by virtue of his own excesses.
I also love the allusion to a Bond villian, because that's the way I saw Goran V playing it, too. I love the arrogance, moral indifference and entitlement, all punched up with a dose of slick humor. I thought he was great.
On Moreau, add to the fact that the team sneaked up on him, so the setting and conflict itself doesn't show him in his Big Bad mode. It just doesn't have the proportions to show the real scale of the man; that had to be tell, not show.
A full-on frontal assault would have been much more spectacular, like showing a massive fortress being overwhelmed by hundreds of men and the ladders and the boiling oil and the whatnot. But as Nate said, that's not how you take a man like Moreau down; you go in through the back door with a few men that no one else found. Kind of like the battle of Helm's Deep vs The People's Front of Judea in Pilot's palace.
It was played pretty well with Moreau's utter lack of comprehension that he was vulnerable. It really did feel like he was operating on a whole other plane than the team (with the exception of Eliot, perhaps), and was just a little bewildered as to why their two planes were even in contact. And making the villain likeable and urbane does add to the fear factor, which is why Anthony Hopkins was cast for Hannibal Lector after his perfomance in ... Heartlands, was it? Anyhow.
547 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 547 Newer› Newest»@ormaybemidgets - yeah, that part is kind of confusing me. The traffic cams would definitely be a reference to the car they were IN, I totally agree. But, when Eliot says "tell me again about the car", the Busey says "it's still in Virginia". But the Busey then talks about the gun being disposed of with the car - said gun being in the glove compartment of the car they're sitting in.
When the drive away after Eliot 'kills' Atherton, Eliot tells the Busey "go faster than 35 and I'll kill ya" - obviously, doesn't want to attract attention, but could be a reference again to the traffic cams?
Guess it hinges on what the Busey meant by "still in Virginia"? I'm just not sure, but I'm still leaning more toward the whole conversation being about the car, not the railway car.
Hopefully Rogers will clarify.
Goran's performance reminded me a bitof his performance in Practical Magic, but pulled back a notch.
Recognized the Quigly quote. It worked, but did you know?
What were the straps Eliot was wearing in the warehouse?
From the moment Eliot said he kept track of where Moreau was I knew he used to work for him. And it made perfect sense. Thank you. Add someone's coment about how Eliot seemed pissed all season. Makes perfect sense when you realize the team was taking him back to THIS place in his life. Now that Moreau is in jail and his big bad secret is sort of out, he's got the weight of the world off his shoulders.
I assume that Flores is a really good person and something about him broke Eliot away from the life with Moreau. But I like that it's not spelled out. I also really loved the senior-junior officer vibe betweent them. Rang true from my own (non-military) training.
I am assuming that Eliot doesn't like guns BECAUSE he's so good with them. I, too saw River Tam in Eliot. Almost expected him to say something about math at the end of his slide. "I don't like guns, doesn't mean I can't do the math."
WV: Gesse, Italian Gooses
VB - Good point about the assassination of Atherton about being a test or hurdle in order for Eliot to get his client into the meeting. It still seems perhaps a bit overly-complicated and manufactured, but not terribly so.
Rusty - that actually wasn't me asking about the car, but thanks anyway.
BTW - I just wanted to add that the actor playing Michael was very effective. Nicely shlubby in the rumbled suit but made a convincing turn. He really held the screen well with TH and GB.
First, AMAZING episodes - blew me away.
My question: at the end, why did Sophie say Uh-oh? I'm hoping it's not because she regrets sleeping with Nate, but rather that she's worried Eliot is about to break down the door to her hotel room next. To me that makes more sense - that the uh-oh has to do with the team's reactions to them and not with waking up naked in bed with Nate. Right?
One more - I remember you once tweeting that the key to the finale was in Nate's Moffat-like speech. I love the Moffat speeches that Steve would give in Coupling. But which of Nate's speeches in the finale were you calling Moffat-like? None of them seemed quite long enough to be "Moffat-like". ;-)
@Oona...it's one of those typical "You show me you're a bad guy, and you can join my bad guy club" things.
@evening_shadow: We've seen Hardison picking locks. But that was more escape artists stuff...
@erin: I'm thinking that explosives likely wouldn't be exact enough for the kind of reasons that Moreau would want someone dead. (He wanted Atherton's body found, not "go blow up the car"). but ymmv
Great episodes!!! I thought BBJ was better - Eliot fan here! Totally loved it! Can't wait for the DVDs to come out or the next season!!
I would love to know which of you has been to Turkey Istanbul? As a citizen of Istanbul I almost spitted out my drink when Sophie said she learnt to drive from one of our cab drivers. So true! majority drive like maniacs - while keeping a running commentary on about life, politics you name it they know it. So who?
Thanx again for a very entertaining 2 hours, it was like a movie!!
Kudos to you and the writers, loved everything.
Question: We had Nate and his story for season 1, Sophie and her story for season 2 and now Eliot and his story for season 3 so are we getting Parker or Hardison's story in season 4 and have you explained that you need a 5th season for the remaining character at the very least?????
For those suspending reality for the warehouse, seems to me it's the same has when Parker gets through the room with the laser beams to get the ice cream and on other occasions.
as for Sophie's name, I am thinking it is really Rebecca.
As for Sophie and Nate, there wouldn't be a romantic evening before for sure, more of a falling into bed together having drinking a bit too much.
If I remember correctly, Sophie told Nate he was "..working off that slap." Apparently he did! I loved Sophie's "Oh no!" and Nate's "Hi". Great ending and really the first season where there wasn't a hint of a cliffhanger, that is, will-the-team-get-back-together-or-not?
I loved the scene with the General referring to Eliot as Commander because we get a little smile out of Eliot and everyone else exchanging "what the..." looks.
No one has mentioned the scene with Eliot and Parker where he is almost babbling about why she can't use a steam vent "...normal people..." and then challenges her on being 60 ft. below ground so she sings one note and is quite sure she is right. Also, Beth can do the she-be-crazy looks better than anyone else. Someone who really gets off on danger and even more - violence.
All the lines from past shows like "we'd be the Cavalry", "you're adorable", etc. was great.
FANTASTIC 2 hours. I'll admit it - I got a DVR just for Leverage so I could watch to my heart's content until the DVD arrives.
Slainte, John Rogers!
No, Anonymous, you aren't the only one who thinks Eiot kicking ass is hot. Wow!! Loved the first part, but I really wanted to see Eliot's anguish continue. He's obviously wrestling with some deons and that's such rich territory that I'd love to see it explorted. Christian was marvelous in these epoisodes.
No one has mentioned the scene with Eliot and Parker where he is almost babbling about why she can't use a steam vent "...normal people..."
The best part of it? After a few false starts, he completely gives up.
@Video Beagle, you might tone down the fangirl scorn just a hair. I'm an unapologetic Eliot fangirl (I can squee with the best of them), but I've never had any doubt that Eliot is a bad, bad man who has done bad, bad things. Funny, grumpy, charming Eliot was once, and can still be, a stone cold killer.
So it's not necessarily fangirls who can't wrap their heads around Eliot as a professional killer, it's a particular subset who need to believe that Eliot spends all his time playing with puppies.
@SueN - My apologies for painting you with the big brush.
Can we now get back to discussing My Leverage Ponies? :-)
WV: gashed - appropriate for an Eliot conversation
@SueN - Hear, hear! :-) I am a total Eliot fangirl (who would be embarrassed to admit her age at the same time as typing that sentence), but I can and do totally accept that the Eliot of 10 years ago was a VERY bad man, and that, as we saw last night, he can pull elements of that bad man back out when it comes to protecting his team.
Well put, SueN! It's the difference between loving the character and loving what you project onto the character.
How often do Eliot and Beck from the Rundown hang out? Those are the only guys I've ever seen referred to as "retrieval experts". Both are adept in the kitchen. And now after professing a disdain for firearms they've had enormous epic gun battle action sequences. The only difference (and well, probably the most important one) is that Eliot is played by someone with some acting ability. The gun fight managed to win me over during the course of it. It began as eyerollingly narmful but by the end I could chuckle in appreciation of it's insanity.
Great moments for everyone but as usual the best comes when the whole team's together. That scene in the park in BBJ = awesome.
Loved the SLJ for its own reasons and the decision to take the second half in a totally lighter direction. Goran really nailed Moreau. I echo the calls to find ways to bring him back around in the future if you can.
One bit of confusion on my part, in the very opening with the lab break in. Was it only the Leverage crew there or was there a second group? We only see three masked figures (two toss the office and #3 grabs the client). Later, right before the office goes boom we get the reveal of Parker, Hardison, and Eliot and they are saving her life. When Moreau and Atherton talk Moreau says he had her killed. Were the two people ransacking the office hitmen who then placed the bomb and not connected to the unseen Leverage member who grabbed the client? Or were they two of our three heroes, who got tipped off to the bomb and showed up just in time to steal some info from the office before grabbing the client and letting it blow fake her death?
I got the impression that the holsters that Eliot showed up with in the warehouse were to carry ammunition. He’s worked for Moreau and knows how his men operate. If I read the initial exchange between him and Chapman (?) correctly, Eliot used to head Moreau’s security. So he would totally know how they’d roll.
Also, did anyone notice Moreau’s wedding ring? I’m guessing the Season 4’s Big Bad is Mrs. Moreau seeking revenge and turning out to be the ‘brains’ behind Moreau’s operation.
@the car's still in virginia discussion: I heard the Busey's comment as "It's registered in Virginia.", if that helps clear anything up.
@Sophie's real name: I went back to HHH and watched the scene several (okay, more than several) times, and it looks to me like she writes 'Lisa'. But didn't I see a mention here that during the webchat it's stated that Sophie gave Nate 'a hint, not the real thing'?
Wait...I'm confused. Hardison is 24? Wasn't he in his early twenties during flashbacks in The Rashoman Job? And that was at least five years ago....
Just a bit of Fridge Logic. Didn't really interrupt the fun train; just made the tracks look a bit non-Euclidean. Okay, I'm done torturing this metaphor to death.
Great episodes. You've outdone yourselves again. Which is impressive, considering the bar you've already set for yourselves.
"I'll text you the address and you be there in one hour!" Heh!
One more thing - I took it that Eliot had been Moreau's go-to person or even the Busey (althoug I can't see Eliot as anyone's Busey!) from the conversation with the current Busey when Eliot said, "you got the job?" and Busey answered something like "there was a vacancy". Was Eliot with Moreau for a longer period of time than just a couple of jobs?
@ Tori Angeli – The best part of it? After a few false starts, he completely gives up.
I agree totally. It was just an excellent scene between those two, although I, too, loved the scene in the park.
For all its upping the ante in what the team can steal -- also, nice to know I wasn't the only Transmet-head thinking Vita Severn when Sophie got turned into another Diana -- I felt the San Lorenzo Job was very much on-speed; the threat to the team was never escalated in the way it was when Hardison got kicked into the pool in the first part. Did this stem from a conscious decision in the writers' room to mix things up and not have the last episode be dramatic and heavy, or just worries about having a dark episode *and* satirizing the horrible thing that is US politics at the same time derailing the fun train?
@Anonymous ranting about Nate/Sophie:
I dunno what show you're watching (or blog you're reading for that matter), but Leverage is not really a show to indulge in soft-focus skipping along in a field of gillyflowers view of romance. The moment closing off their arc in this season in my mind is the conversation about Nate and Sophie being partners and friends.
Of course, they're broken people, and drama hates comfortable, happy relationships, so once they arrived at a comfortable place, they promptly went and upset the applecart with a drunken shag, as a tease for what they'll have to deal with in next season. If you actually *show* how they arrived at that -- which judging from what I know of drunken shags would not be glamorous -- you ruin the fun of the reveal.
I wonder if Sterling watched the news reports from San Lorenzo with a wry smile and and "Oh, Nate... What are you into now?"
@SueN, is Eliot a bad man you now does good things, or a good man who once did bad things?
@msd: my impression was that Elliot was there long term. Enough that the thugs hearing "I'm Elliot Spenser" meant "we let him in and keep many many many guns on him." Either from standing orders, or from reputation told by squad veterans.
@IMForeman There's still the "someone" the Italian was talking to in The Morning After Job, who many of us suspected was Sterling. So he may have known what was going down the whole time.
"just how bullet proof are cardboard boxes?"
-lol - That was my question too.
"5. Kane needs to wear that shade of blue more often"
-Agreed!
"rancher for my little pony"
-fucking hilarious!
As far as Parker/Hardison, "pretzels" was sufficient.
Nate/Sophie, I really didn't need to see them in bed together. There are far too many hormones raging in this community (the Leverage community) use your imagination and leave it at that!
Watched both shows again-thanks so much for this finale! Still think Christian was amazing in the warehouse gunfight--WOW! My question is- how long did it take to film that scene and how many takes did Christian have to do?
@Erin
One more question: With Vittori's whole "Yay, democracy! Boo, corruption!" platform, it seems to me he's going to have a devil of a time explaining to the people why he's keeping one of Ribera's political prisoners in custody. So will Moreau face actual charges in San Lorenzo at some point?
I'm going to guess that it's not going to be a great problem. Moreau is a wanted criminal in a boatload of Western nations, now. That would make keeping him a prisoner more palatable to the people. The actual politicians that just moved him are obviously fully aware of how he had subverted the previous government to be his personal valet. They can't afford to let him out, because he might be able to pull that trick again and we're back to reference about carrying shovel while you're out in the woods.
But, when Eliot says "tell me again about the car", the Busey says "it's still in Virginia".
I'll go back and watch my DVR recording, but I heard that line as
"It was stolen in Virginia." That makes the dialogue make more sense to me.
Fantastic, fantastic job! Though the pacing did seem a little off, in that the BBJ seemed more of a"Finale" finale while the SLJ seemed more like a build-up. But hey, that's okay, I'm not complaining! I guess the "finality" comes from a) defeating the villain for good and b) stealing a friggin' COUNTRY. Hot damn.
1) Did no one bother to check in to the hopefully future first lady's past? Seriously? She just appears out of nowhere, and everyone's cool with it?
2) Why didn't Moreau run a slander campaign against our guy? Isn't that the first tactic these guys use?
3) I loved the way you brought the EMP back as the MacGuffin. It made me think of the third season of Doctor Who, with "The Lazarus Experiment." You've said that you're a fan of DW, and Steven Moffat in particular. a) Was the similarity between the Big Bang Job and Doctor Who intentional? b) Was the title of the BBJ a tribute to Doctor Who/The Moff's own glorious finale?
first a remark: the whole "it was totally Matrix-like" thing about the warehouse-shootout reminds me of a few years ago (after the first Matrix movie had come out) when people were seeing wire-work in other movies and commenting about the matrix-ness .. And it would make me sigh and/or angry because of course Matrix had just been the most mainstream example up to that point. Anyway. To me it was, at first, a Max Payne-scene (the game) and then very much Equilibrium. Kane is a Grammaton Cleric, holy shit!
A remark on parker and costumes: I'm a big time Parker fanboy (probably even more than I am an Amy Pond fanboy, but I digress) and I was one of the horde who, after the S01 finale kept screaming "w000 Parker in that dress, OMGWTFBBQ *drool*" and so forth.
Only then to be kinda disappointed in seasons 2 and onwards when, apparently, a decision had been made to show sexy-Parker a bit more often. Which kinda took it in a wrong direction for me. Until the almost-last scene in the San Lorenzo job, when I went back to salivating (secretly, after all my wife was sitting next to me): Whatever she was wearing, the back-side of it was breath-taking!
One question (which I think I've asked before but didn't get an answer for): do you sometimes wish you were working for the BBC, where you could use any piece of Music you like (so you could do a very short tease of the A-Team theme in a scene or sth like that) without a license? All this "having to clear it first" must suck ..
Ah, as long as we are talking British TV, are you aware of the awesomeness that is the show "Misfits"? Because you should.
Just how bullet proof are cardboard boxes?
That rather depends on what's in the cardboard boxes. If it's a box full of phone books or engine parts, probably decently bulletproof.
No questions yet, just compliments. I have my own personal rating scale for the TV shows I watch and when I saw the pilot back then, I rated it with 10/10 because I thought it couldn't get better. And yet, with every season, you come out with even more mind-blowing episodes. I guess, I'll have to give you at least 15/10 for both the final episodes!
@Video Beagle: not convinced that Eliot killed a family on purpose. I felt more that bad guy in the car was trying to impress upon Eliot that he could and would do things that even Eliot wouldn’t do because he knows why Eliot left and wants Eliot to be afraid of him. The inference of a “car accident” when talking about getting rid of the general leads me to believe that when Eliot killed someone for Moreau possibly with a staged “car accident” other people (probably kids) were killed, either in the car with the target or just bystanders. There is no way that the Eliot who loved Amy and the Eliot we know now could have been a psychopath killer for Moreau in between, which he would have had to be in order to take out a complete family on order.
As for the line “Who are you guys” I feel like that was from some movie and I just can’t place it, how about it Rogers, was that a line/scene from one of your inspirations? Do tell.
@ormaybegmigdets: I would think Moreau had one of his henchmen throw the keys in after Eliot agreed to kill Atherton.
@Tori Angli: Hardison without a doubt would be the first. Nate already has a good idea, Sophie likes her secrets and Parker knows she really doesn’t want to know. Hardison on the other hand likes to know everything about everything and thinks he can handle anything Eliot could tell him.
@Oona: Moreau didn’t “need” Eliot to take out Atherton, it was a test to see if he were really there to work out a deal.
@Bonnie: In last week’s webcast they mentioned that Christian spent 2 days working on the warehouse scene.
Ack, sorry! Two more questions:
4) Was Vittori in on the whole "Sophie pretends to die" thing before it happened? I'd assume yes, considering the way he acted, but he seemed clueless enough about the attempt on his life by the guards to not be in on the plan.
5) Will Nate and Sophie say "Let's just pretend this never happened" and try to hit a reset button? I normally detest the reset button, but that's how I see them reacting, considering that a) the sex was had while they were both compromised, and b) they had just reached the "friendly partnership" stage of their relationship, and they wouldn't want to blow that. Not yet, at least. Of course, just because they TRY to hit the reset button doesn't mean it will work...
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know what to say. You and the Leverage team are awesome! Loved both episodes but of the two, the Big Bang Job was my favorite - I think I have a new all-time favorite episode. How are you going to top that?!?
I absolutely loved the scene in the park where Eliot told Parker not to ask him about what he'd done, and Christian and Beth were on the verge of tears - stole my heart.
The warehouse fight scene was f-ing brilliant!! I'm guessing that's what you had wanted to write since you were 12? Loved every freaking second of it! Before the episode aired, I was a tiny bit worried that you might be trying to make us make us hate Eliot, but you succeeded in making him even sexier! By the way, he should wear that shade of blue more often...
Questions:
1)Was that the Cellwood Bridget that Parker and Hardison jumped off of?
2)Does Vittori know that Sophie's "death" was just an act?
3)Did Timothy actually do the stunt where Nate got knocked rather roughly into that table, or whatever it was?
4) Both Sophie and Eliot had their faces on TV - will that come back to bite them in the ass at some point? (since Eliot was so worried about someone recognizing him from the video on the Internet when he was playing Krane)
5) Just how much fun did Christian have filming the warehouse scene?
6) Who's idea was Eliot's belt buckle? A great shout out to Christian's heritage.
@SueN, is Eliot a bad man you now does good things, or a good man who once did bad things?
The correct answer, of course, is "Yes."
Caitlin:
Are we ever going to find out what it was that Eliot did for Moreau that was so horrible?
Given that Eliot said that ALL of Moreau's men had "innocent blood" on their hands and one of Moreau's flunkies was perfectly willing to kill the general's whole family without batting an eye (and implied that it was SOP), I figure that's all the detail we needed.
Bonus! Word verification word: resqu
@evening shadow
"When Season 1 kicked off, there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that Hardison was the computer guy. Parker and Eliot were both shown needing assistance in the computer realm. However, as the seasons have progressed, they've both gotten better at it (especially Parker) and my assumption has always been that Hardison has shown them some tricks. So has no one really returned the favor and taught Hardison how to pick locks?"
I don't know about you, but when I saw one punch that guard on the train I immediately thought 'Eliot's been teaching him how to hit'
Amazed nobody's made this comparison yet...
Q. What do you get when a Gunslinger hangs up his guns?
A. Eliot Spencer.
As ever, filled with love for the gang... but did anyone else find Moreau a disappointment? After being built up as a Big Bad, a man so vile he got Eliot to commit unnamed atrocities, he's just another bastard in a suit?
Actual question - how big a smile did the writers get when Wikileaks happened, in regard to the last ep having such a strong 'internet trumps other media in politics' angle?
@David Hunt
You're right, it's not really a problem - and certainly not if we accept that this is a matter of Leverage!verse law :) I was just thinking that much was made of the political prisoner/asset seizure laws instituted by Ribera being emblematic of his corruption, and it would seem odd for Vittori to accept the ongoing incarceration of Moreau while also trying to establish his own credibility as a reformer under the gaze of the world press/UN inspectors. Moreau may be a bastard, but his arrest was a pretty transparent asset seizure by Ribera: heck, he'll be living in the guy's villa! That just doesn't look good for Vittori no matter how dirty Moreau is.
It's not at all unrealistic, of course. I'm mostly just envisioning some sort of snag that could allow the fantastic Goran Visnjic to return at some point in the future :) Perhaps a situation that might, gee, I don't know, require Interpol to get involved? Heh.
Oh, yes...another question:
Is this the first time Nate has falsified the evidence he passes to Bonnano?
@IMForeman (Eliot's nature):
I think it depends on who you ask. As for Eliot, I think he sees himself as a bad guy doing good things. Or a bad guy doing semi-bad things for good reason.
I just don't think he'd bought into that "we're the good guys now"yet. At least, not where he's concerned.
@Anna: Hardison set up a background for Sophie's character. Him and Nate discuss it.
I thought Goran Visnjic did a great job with the banality of yuppie evil, and epic Eliot was epic.
One thing I did wonder about, though - why didn't Hardison drag the chair to the shallow end of the pool and stand up? He's a pretty big guy, and at least some of the chair was hollow, so it couldn't have been that heavy.
@Ian: Yep, "The Wonderful War" is pretty obviously it, right down to the denouement scene in El Presidente's inner sanctum. But that wasn't a recent story as Rogers claimed; it's from 1931 or earlier! So maybe it's something else.... but I can't remember any other time that Templar overthrew a whole country. :)
Don't understand all the "warnings" about Nate being a TOTAL bastard, and Eliot showing his darkest side, in the lead up to the finale. If anything, Eliot is even hotter now than he ever was! Maybe I'm just attracted to the "bad" boys?
OK, here's what else I want to know. In BBJ, during the pool scene, were Goran and Aldis riffing on their previous work together in ER?
That scene was such a turn-around on Aldis as Mai-Mai holding Goran's malaria striken Dr. Kovac hostage in the Congo; why else the French accent?
@ Julia, that looked like a lap pool in a hotel fitness center. Those don't usually have shallow ends.
I didn't read through all 200+ comments to see if this was already asked, so here goes: What kind of setup was involved for Eliot's big shoot-out scene with Moreau's baddies? How many times did y'all have to do to get the scene the way you wanted it, or did Kane knock it out of the park on the very first take?
And can I just add this? That whole sequence was pure genius. And Eliot IS Batman.
Thank you all for a fantastic end to this season. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch it again.
@KimH: I agree completely re Eliot's slide to freedom, except that I don't think he could be very effective shooting back at anyone. For the other guys, though - if you've never fired a pistol, you would not believe how hard it is to hit a stationary target with one, let alone a moving target that's shooting back at you. Now add that that moving target is low to the ground (not where most people are used to aiming) and behind it are some of your... well, not friends, but teammates, at least. It has to give one at least a little bit of a pause, a less sure aim. "Improbable but not impossible", exactly.
(But wouldn't we like to see Mythbusters try it!)
was the debate scene in the san lorenzo job a call back to the kennedy-nixon debate of '60?
Damn good finale episodes. I honestly didn't expect them to measure up to the last two seasons. Was surprised and quite please to find that they surpassed them. Kudos to all of you!
The only thing I was left wondering was if Eliot is worried at all about his fingerprints being left on those guns?
I'm just going to say, like most everyone else on the board...you guys knocked it out of the park! Awesome episodes, I loved every single minute!
I do have to ask this question: Will the warehouse have any after effects on Eliot?
My guess, for what it's worth, is that no, it won't. In the San Lorenzo Job, when the General asked Eliot if he could ever leave one of his team members behind and he and Parker share that full of awesome look, I think I understood. He was willing to do anything to protect the team, even if it meant becoming that "bad man" again. I guess that's what makes Eliot such a hero - redemption is out of reach for him (or so he thinks) so he's just going to do his best to be the best hitter he can.
Or maybe I'm just thinking waaayyy too deep on this matter. Either way, awesome episodes. I loved every single minute!
Have wonderful, restful holidays...you're going to need to a lot of energy to top those episodes!
Random: When Eliot is talking about the dog fighting ring, is that a picture of the Moneda in the background? If it was the tech folk having fun, good job! :)
In case no one mentioned it (there are 254 comments at this point): thank you for putting Eliot and lubricant together, even if it wasn't the right kind of lubricant ;) The fan fic writers are going wild.
Hmm. I like how everyone thinks Nate and Sophie are together and/or slept together just because they ended up in the same hotel room bed together wearing very little after celebrating in a alcohol fueled way. Given the way their awesomely compacted relationship has developed, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if appearances, in this case, are very deceiving . . . and the angst possibilities are endlessly delicious.
Leverage has become my favorite show on TV.
Can't wait for Season 4!
My questions are more general than episode specific.
CK has commented that he has had to go to the hospital every season and I wondered if that was true I the 3rd season. If so, which episode and what was the injury? Same questions about Beth?
Thanks to cast and crew for providing good intertainment!
I like someone else's comment about Nate and Sophie: consensual, mutually agreed upon, next step--done for all the wrong reasons. heh.
"Honestly, no. We never stood a chance in hell."
I was waiting for Nate to add, "...but I'm not honest."
It's MUCH more fun that the writers here assume that we can fill such things in for ourselves!
Is it a coincidence that the Season Two finale was titled "the Maltese Falcon Job" and the mcguffin in the first part of this season's finale was called the Ram's Horn? In the Bette Davis remake of the Maltese Falcon, the falcon was changed to a jeweled ram's horn. Were you guys playing around with movie trivia or is this just a really really odd coincidence?
DOH! I just rewatched and realized that I didn't catch the first time that Nate's character in SLG was Draper! (Too many Newcastles.)
I have to assume that a morally ambiguous guy manipulating the general public named Draper is a nod to Mad Men? Awesome little touch, if so. I love you guys' references. You should make a trivia game for the DVD or something.
Oh, and my guess for Sophie's name on rewatch - Diana.
I loved the last two episodes. I found it a little odd that Eliot was wearing a shoulder holster (with no gun). Is there a reason for this?
Three things...
1) Is the whole Moreau thing the reason Eliot's so protective of kids now?
2) You said watch both eps. for Sophie's real name...does that mean we're supposed to believe her real name is...Rebbecca Henkle??? (PLEASE SAY NO!)
3) Nate & Sophie...FINALLY...and it was so....ARGH! What the fuck? Eliot shoulda caught them! At the very least, a role reversal, SOPHIE clearing off...hmm...the kitchen table back at Nate's apartment, and throwing him down on it! That was such a letdown after all this time.
@Video Beagle, "Hardison set up a background for Sophie's character."
Actually, he said he would do it, then Moreau showed up, and he went off to hack into the embassy cameras and started spamming San Lorenzo. I'm not sure we ever saw him create the back story, which makes me think Sophie may have used her real name and backstory in this ep.
I wouldn't think that Elliot would be too broken up about the warehouse. It wasn't the first time he's killed lots of people, and they were bad guys who were trying to kill him. He wants to move away from that, but I think at some level he knows he can't while he's still in the life.
This is his Wolverine arc...he's a ninja who dreams of being a samurai.
My feelings about the finale episodes can be summed up thus:
Rogers you magnificent bastard.
And you know I mean that in the best possible way. I must admit I like you more cynical episodes.
I loved both episodes. They're completely different in tone and shape and yet, so wonderful.
Kane did knock it out of the park. Emmy or Golden Globes nomination reel, please! Not that the other actors weren't on their game. No, you have a fabulous team of people to work with.
The most brilliant lines of the evening for me: Elliot's "Don't ask me" and Nate's "I have a 24 year old genius with a smart phone and a problem with authority." The first, at least, is a character-defining line. The second could be developed as such.
I have one question, and it's more of a meta-thing. You admitted to having Lester Dent's essay about plot formula up on the writer's wall, and about writing pulp. Maybe this has been asked before and I missed it, but why five characters for this show? Does it have to do with the Doc Savage rule-of-five? (Always have five main characters, or four with a fifth who changes with every story?)
Also -- thank you for putting Nate and Sophie into the same bed. I'm so glad. Not because I'm a Nate/Sophie shipper, but because now that they've slept together, their relationship can get so screwed up. Sleeping together doesn't solve *any* of their problems. It just makes them worse. That's what often happens with adults. (Cynical? Who me?)
So once again, thank you and the other writers and the directors and actors and everyone on the set. Absolutely magnificent. Thank you for Leverage, the best hour on TV.
@Video Beagle
In regards to whether or not Eliot should be upset over what he did in the warehouse, I'm going to side with Terry Pratchett: if you can do it for a good reason, you can end up doing it for a bad reason. The point wasn't who he was killing or whether or not they deserved it. The point was that he was capable of it. Killing a person is a messed-up thing to do even when you have to do it, and Eliot has a long, long history of doing it for bad reasons that he can't just compartmentalize.
All the same, will it bleed over into next season? Probably not. The man was positively giddy at the end of "San Lorenzo." Also, Leverage is a dramedy. Languishing is kept to a minimum.
Love. (Please have a word with the DVD folks, though. We need something about that stunt sequence with Kane and the warehouse as a DVD extra.)
Forgot to add:
Please have Kane holding a puppy or otherwise playing with a dog at least once per season from now on, k thx.
(I am convinced the dog fighting ring thing was selected entirely because it meant there could be footage of Eliot holding a puppy.)
"Hmm. I like how everyone thinks Nate and Sophie are together and/or slept together just because they ended up in the same hotel room bed together wearing very little after celebrating in a alcohol fueled way."
Oh man, don't take away the Nate/Sophie sex. I've always appreciated that the show leaves a lot of details open without ever taking advantage of that to insert something that's convenient for the episode but just doesn't make sense.
Also -- thank you for putting Nate and Sophie into the same bed. I'm so glad. Not because I'm a Nate/Sophie shipper, but because now that they've slept together, their relationship can get so screwed up. Sleeping together doesn't solve *any* of their problems. It just makes them worse. That's what often happens with adults. (Cynical? Who me?)
This. I am totally into this.
Or it helps Nate a little, but freaks Sophie out a lot. Or....
@ Everyone asking about the car
I think what was actually said was "Stolen from Virgina." I think it makes more sense when they talk about dumping the car and gun into the sea. So it can't be traced back to them.
But thats just my personal opinion, we'll have to wait to see what Rogers says.
Sorry if this has been addressed already, I haven't read all the comments yet.
@ Jane - my guess is "The Inside Job" where he had a band-aid across the bridge of his nose for the whole episode.
@Tori: Ah, but in this case it's if you can do it for a bad reason, you can end up doing it for a good reason.
And we see that Eliot compartmentalizes the violence. He doesn't give every security guard he knocks out a candy cane, after all.
More and more I think that Eliot isn't Batman, but Claremont's Wolverine...the best there is at what he does, and the whole ninja vs samurai thing.....and that makes Hardison Kitty Pryde.
@Video Beagle That's not compartmentalizing, that's growing a heart. We're not talking about giving someone a tap on the head, we're talking about ending their life. Whether it's for a good or bad reason, it's bad business, and Eliot knows that.
@24jg13, Eliot's not and never has been a "psychopathic killer" for anyone. Eliot is a professional killer. And he is a soldier. Which means he takes orders from his superiors. So when he worked for Moreau, he killed whoever Moreau told him to kill. Not by accident, but by design.
And as someone else said above, that's what's eating him alive, and what Eliot said he'll "never get clean from." He did it willingly, knowingly and sanely, and he didn't walk away until it was too late.
So, no, the man who worked for Moreau (and probably others) wasn't the same man who loved Aimee back then or who works with the team now. But that man still exists in Eliot, and he came out guns a-blazin' in the BJJ. And he was also ready to tear Moreau into pieces in that airplane hangar.
Oh. My. God.
This was the best thing I've seen on tv. Ever. Everever.
I guess I could tell you all about the scenes I liked best, but since you do have the script already I don't really need to write the entire thing for you again. ;-)
I have only one question. How do I send flowers and a real good bottle of whiskey to the writers' room?
It's been interesting reading all the thoughts about the episodes. Like so many, I thought the shoot-out scene was fabulously OTT, in the best possible way. Leverage doesn't take itself too seriously, and it's worked up to this level of disbelief slowly but surely. But as much as I see the elements of The Matrix that others have talked so much about, am I really the only one who sees the whole shoot-out as more of an homage to Roberto Rodriguez? Up to the sliding on knees part, I felt I was watching Leverage goes Desperado more than anything else. And that was pretty fabulous.
Rogers, please, please hear our plea and bring Moreau back. You left a nice trail of loose ends, and how can we possibly be finished with Moreau before Sterling gets a crack at him? Moreau has a full-on grudge against Nate now, and this is the perfect opportunity to set up a scenario where Nate and Sterling have to work together. Think of Moreau like Brennan or Larry on Burn Notice, popping up to stir up trouble, then seemingly dispatched only to reappear and make trouble once again. Anyone really think he'd have much trouble getting out of that jail in San Lorenzo? Of course not.
I just rewatched the car scene w/ my ccs on. The dialogue is basically as follows:
E: DC has a lot of traffic cameras. Tell me about the car.
Henchman: Stolen in Virginia. When it's done, it'll be taken to the docks and shipped overseas. Gun's in there.
My take on the scene was that Eliot knew the cameras would catch him leaving Atherton's car and getting into the getaway vehicle. Members of the Hitters guild seem required to speak in low, menacing tones, which can be difficult to comprehend.
Apologies for not wading back into the ocean of comments, but to whoever made the comment about escape artistry, I would beg to disagree. If both hands were cuffed to the chair, then it would be escape artistry. One hand is just a deterrent and the free hand could be used to pick the lock. I'd say it's more likely Hardison, already on edge from all the reveals, panicked. However, as I write this, it occurs to me to wonder: Can you actually pick a lock under water?
@Anna--
1) Did no one bother to check in to the hopefully future first lady's past? Seriously? She just appears out of nowhere, and everyone's cool with it?
There was a brief conversation between Nate and Hardison when Sophie as Rebecca announced the engagement that led me to believe that Hardison was on his way to the computer to set up the backstory for Rebecca so that by the time anyone checked there would be an established identity to find with a history. He's got mad skillz that way, ya know.
BTW loved both episodes and have to admit that I was dreading what would happen with Eliot. But that bad person he may have been back in the day...well, that was then, this is now. He's not the same guy anymore and he's tried to make up for the past.
I don't have a problem with not knowing exactly what Eliot did in the past or how bad it was.
All that matters --to me anyway--is that he does not want to be that person any more and is trying to make up for it as best he can.
As to the warehouse gunfight...those were not innocent men and they intended to kill Eliot, Nate, and the Italian. Just escaping was not likely going to stop that.
ok, have to remind myself to breath wile watching it. No Q's so far, but I agree with my fellow grifters, best finally ever.
' I have a 24 old genius with a smartphone and a problem with authority.' great...best line of the season.
but the warehouse scene, whooohooo.
was it just me or did I see a lil'bit of 'Billy' flashing up in Kane. ( sorry just the Kaniac in me)
U guys realllly do blow shit up, right. Much love to the whole team as usual....
Sam73(too lazy to login)
@evening-shadow Water doesn't really interfere with the workings of a conventional, purely mechanical lock, so there's not much reason you couldn't pick on while underwater. However, it's really difficult because you can't hear the tumbler click into place, so you need really sensitive hands and a calm mind. Difficulty is further compounded by the fact that he's got to pick and apply torque with the same hand, not to mention that he's kind of in the middle of drowning. Plus, Hardison is the hacker. Even if he could do all that (unlikely), it's not at all certain that he's even carrying the right kind of lockpick for the job.
Parker, on the other hand, would've been out of those cuffs in an eyeblink.
@Tori: Sorry, I disagree. Eliot has been (and to some extent, still is) a professional soldier. He is trained to kill, and he accepts that as part as the life.
He's not doing the "once you kill someone, everything changes." bit. He's well past that.
He's someone who would know, when you go into a fight, you be prepared to kill or be killed.
This is not someone who when faced with "the worst thing he did" walked away from the life. He didn't enter a monastery, or swear off violence or take on a code against killing. He just left and became his own boss so he'd only have to kill the people he chose, rather than the ones someone else told him to.
WV: hexached - what happened wehen you cast too many freeze spells to soon.
@Video Beagle just above, that's a very good summation of Eliot. After all, when Dubenich hired him, thus launching the Leverage team, he was still doing the retreving/hitting gig, not sitting in a rocking chair on his porch watching his corn grow.
Plus, he has to know that every time he wades into a fight on a job, there's a good chance someone's gonna die. He's still perfectly willing to kill, just for different reasons.
And @Guru, yep, definitely shades of Rodriguez in that warehouse scene.
As to the harness that Eliot was wearing, on yet another watching, I thought it looked like a brace of knives, much like the ones he saw him with in "Rashomon."
And a question for Rogers: Just how many guns with his fingerprints on them did Eliot leave in that warehouse? Or can we assume they burned up in the fire?
I would like to start with something serious. I don't claim to have any concept of how Emmy nominations work (I am Canadian and I'm not in "the biz") but if anyone at Leverage & TNT has any braincells at all they'll send in BBJ for Christian because after that? After this? It's been long enough just waiting to get the man a part he can actually prove his worth with, but after BBJ he has so much more than proven himself...the man deserves an award for that performance. No. Seriously. Get on it Rogers.
As for questions (and it's so hard once there are already 284 comments to try and come up with something original) I only have these:
1)In the park scene when Parker asks Eliot what he's done (and GOD that was just perfect - tone, lines, angles, just PERFECT) and he's a little teared up (God Christian breaks my heart when he cries) and then we see SHE's a little teared up...was that supposed to happen or was Beth tearing up because Christian did? I know I teared up because Christian did
2)Were the Firefly references intentional? Between Atherton (cleared name I'm sure) and the whole Eliot = Sheppard Book thing going on I'm starting to think you take too many lunches with Joss!
3)Was I supposed to get a Broken Arrow vibe on the train with the bomb? Because plucky girl + competent boy + train + bomb...it kinda felt that way
4)Was this the plan the whole time or did it just sort of happen as you got closer to the end? I'm sure if I went and re-watched the season I'd see hints laid out...but how much of this finale was really in the works all the way along?
5)Did you worry about how fans would react to the "new" Eliot you've shown here or did you pretty much figure we could take it? (Personally? I think it was perfectly written and fantastically acted and it all fit with my original idea of Eliot so it's all good)
6)Any hints at all on what the major arc of season 4 will be? You've cleared everything up from season 3 (I think)...nothing to carry over really. Where DO you go from here?
Thanks for another amazing season! And thanks for doing these Q&A posts...gotta love the fan/writer interactions!!
Ok, now that I've actually finished watching them twice...
1) "Argument" between Parker/Hardison re: "everything explodes" = priceless. And the fact that Parker's right = awesome.
2) Eliot + guns = epic. Also, more Eliot backstory (even if it is shadowy) = very well done. Yay for the dramatic side! :)
3) Ya'll've made various shippers happy. Very, very happy.
4) LOVED the ginger hitter. I wish that he and Eliot would've had a physical showdown.
5) Eliot half-shirtless? Thank you! :)
6) The dude who played Vittori = awesome. Where do you find these people?!
7) My only real question (which has probably been already asked/answered): How does Moreau go from not knowing Nate, to knowing his name, to not knowing who he is? I'm assuming that, if he knows who Nate is, he knows what he does (which would make the question "Who are you people?!" yelled from the jail cell a moot point).
Thanks! :)
Thank you for not beating us over the head with the Neurolinguistic Programming howtos again. It's enough that we know what she's doing and have the fun watching it work.
And trying it ourselves on unsuspecting friends and relatives.
VB and SueN, I agree re: Eliot. I don't see him as tortured or eaten alive by his past. This guy has been engaged in violence apparently for the better part of his adult life, and in our three years of watching him, his regret seems fairly narrowly tied to the "worst thing he ever did," which is strongly hinted to be killing an entire family.
The original model for Eliot was Jason Bourne, and you can definitely see that in both characters there is a moral code but there is also a fierce ability to move forward and keep going no matter what - both physically and emotionally.
And that is not a criticism. That's his character, and it's interesting and it's SO MUCH BETTER than draping him in the woobie blanket, which is what many viewers seem to want to do (not pointing at you ToriA, just speaking in general).
For one thing, you really can't be that good and that effective in Eliot's line of work unless you can keep moving forward no matter what. Eliot is exactly what he has to be to be the best hitter in the Leverage universe. Hurt/comfort fanfic Eliot or woobie Eliot just is not going to cut it there. The whole team would be dead if canon Eliot resembled that "other" Eliot.
And just from a dramatic standpoint, the deadly super soldier is a such a nice contrast to heart-on-his-sleeve-wreck-at-any-moment Nate, and the daffy Parker, the outrageous Hardison and the calming but at times uncentered Sophie. Each character has a distinctive role, and they definitely have nuance within the boundaries of those roles, but it's very effective in the ensemble dynamic for everyone to have more of a clear cut part to play.
@Denita: He’s Eliot Spencer makes it his business to have no finger prints.
@Oona: Nice catch about Diana, especially since the line was like “She’s not Princess Diana” would be just like these guys to do that.
@VB, SueN
By no means am I saying Eliot is not prepared to deal with the consequence of killing. I'm also not saying he's wracked with guilt over what he did. I'm saying it clearly disturbs him. Look at his anxiety at the prospect of killing in this episode. Look at how he hides his deeds until the last minute from the others. If he had it to do over again, he wouldn't blink an eye because it had to be done. But if there weren't going to be consequences for him, why would it be such a big deal in the first place?
Brooding like Angel is not the sort of consequence I'm thinking about. That's not Eliot. Revisiting who he was is not a fun job, and I think if he was able to kill without revisiting (and look at him gun down the last henchman without blinking!), there would be absolutely no point to the buildup. It's messy and dirty and Eliot is prepared to deal with it, yes. That doesn't make it okay. It's a little like when Nate started drinking again as part of a con. Rogers has said several times that he's trying not to kill. Sophie tells him "You're not that man anymore." Nate says "He may have to be." That's what I'm talking about.
golly. maybe im just easier to please, but in terms of the ending, with N/S. I dont think it did them some kind of injustice. Much as I'd like to have seen a little more interACTION so to speak, at the same time, the timing didnt call for it.
in terms of them being drunk... i think people forget that the characters that make up this team are FUCKED UP. they are broken people, everyone of them. so getting them into normal romantic swelling music fireworks and candlelight relationships is next to impossible for them. theyve all made some great strides in the last few seasons, but to expect this great NORMAL romance from any of them i think is an unreasonable expectation.
and frankly, even if it had to take a couple of drinks to get them there, N/S GOT THERE. together. and i love it.
in terms of Sophie's real name, I'm not sure I caught it. And while I'm dying to know what it is, I also don't mind what it is. Cos I really doubt that after 3 seasons and their loyal (and sometimes ravenous) following that they will stop referring to her AS Sophie on the show. they could name her Mona Lisa and no one would stop calling her SOPHIE.
My only two "comments" on the episode per se are this, and maybe John will even answer them...
1. In BBJ, Moreau doesnt know Nates name and tries forever to get it out of him. In SLJ, he immediately addresses him as Mr. Ford. But again at the end asks, Who are you?? This is confusing.
2. There is no question the amazing skill and badassery of Eliot's first onscreen gunfight. However. The only thing I had a hard time with was that these people are out to kill him and anytime he crosses, they shoot. Until... right before the big slide. He comes out, and stands before them for like... a solid minute, minute and a half. and they just... hold their fire. Now I realize this was totally for dramatic tension but.. eh. my brain didnt wanna wrap around the not-likelyness of it.
Now. aside from that. the finale was amazing. The guest star who became president was totally enchanting, Alastair was a great bumbling baddie, Goran was a PERFECTTTTT Moreau (Hello??!? Anyone watch Practical Magic lately? the guy is CREEPY), Elisabetta AND Jeri need to come back and bring some kick ass girl power (i dont wanna hear it from the girl haters, sick of hearing it)
all and all, great finale. looking forward to more.
"You know what I have? I have a 24-year-old genius with a Smartphone and a problem with authority."
Best. Line. Ever. It has surpassed "It's the Vatican" as my most favorite Nate quote.
Everyone was truly gorgeous in these eps. Prettiest team on television IMHO. Only "White Collar" even comes close.
and frankly, even if it had to take a couple of drinks to get them there, N/S GOT THERE. together. and i love it.
Amen to that! :), we've waited a while, but they have got there, WOOOOO :) and it is the sort of Fucked up and that N/S would haven't it any other way ;)
Now we have to wait the Lonngggggg 7 months..
Sorry, I figured out a way to say what I've been meaning to say. Sorry I'm being so long-winded!
Much of the time, soldiers don't simply learn to deal with killing as part of life. On the contrary, they know better than anyone the cost of killing. I've known many a man to come back from war a gentler person. This is why PTSD is so common in the military. It's not just because their own lives are in danger, it's because, when it becomes difficult to distinguish friend from foe, some people lose sight of what makes their enemy the enemy. They are shooting at a person they don't know, someone who is merely fighting for their own country. Someone who, for some reason, hates them. It shakes a person's belief in a sense of order to the world. That's what makes it so traumatizing.
Go to the other end. Suppose one learns to kill without those emotional consequences. Killing without emotional consequences is not a sign of a healthy outlook on life. It is a bad, bad, bad thing. It makes people like Eliot and other men who worked for Moreau. Did Eliot learn to kill without emotional consequence? Maybe. But at some point, those consequences must have caught up with him. At some point, his sense of morality must have kicked in, because Dubenich didn't hire an assassin--he hired a thief.
So Eliot has to kill ten or fifteen guys with guns to save one of his closest friends and moral anchors. Is he going to be able to do that without switching off those emotional consequences? That strong sense of morality telling him that these guys may be worse than he is, but he was only feet away from becoming them when he turned his life around? I really, really hope not. Because if Eliot can kill without the slightest sense of remorse, he just became who he used to be. That, in and of itself, is an emotional consequence, and one that would need to be dealt with.
From a moral standpoint, it's been a few years (presumably) since he's killed, and now that he has killed, how much easier will it be for him to kill again? That's something he'll have to live with. If he can kill for a good reason, it's easier now for him to kill for a bad reason.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions-
1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions-
1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
LOL, pray tell, just how MUCH did Kane love that slide ‘n shoot scene? I’m willing to bet he’s still talking about it ...
Questions-
1) the whole episode (the green-lit parking in the beginning, the sideways-flying-shooting, the pool of lubricant on the floor) smelled faintly of The Transporter. Intentional or coincidental? (no question about Evita, this much was obvious)
2) ...Commander ... ? Oh, please, any info will do!
3) What was the effing POINT of the Italian? (really, she can’t be Menacingly Powerful and Adorably Helpless at the same time. Not to mention leaving her tied to a chair for Nate and Eliot to find, instead of simply putting a bullet through her head.) Also, if she is to return in the future, would it be possible to finance some acting lessons for Ms Canalis in the meantime?
4) Loved, LOVED the pretzels reference...
5) OMG, THANK YOU for the Quigley line!!! This line was begging to happen ever since Eliot said „I don’t like guns” in the Nigerian Job... Such a perfect timing for it!
6) CK just outdid himself in the BBJ... The „don’t ask me because I’ll tell you” scene was breathtaking, giving his real name at the entrance – and the immediate reaction of guards - just took the game to the whole new level... To me, it always felt that Eliot’s work for the team only required a tiny percentage of his skills, and in this episode we got a glimpse of the real Eliot – The Very Truly Dangerous Guy (and no, I never saw him as rancher for My Little Ponies, but the idea had me ROTFLing for quite a while). And CK is so good at comedy and action that it’s easy to forget just how good he is at drama – until an episode like this happens. I don’t mean to underestimate Beth Riesgraf and Aldis Hodge, they were both fantastic, but it was very much an Eliot episode.
7) Will we ever see how Eliot and Nate first met? It would seem they’d have moved in very different circles in the past.
Kudos, overall. Beautifully written, beautifully played, both episodes (well, Kane sort of stole the San Lorenzo Job from under you with all that emotional stuff in BBJ, but still.) A perfect season finale.
Thank you for a great S3 and waiting anxiously for Season 4!
wv: trint = a sprint on three legs. If you have this many.
Apologies for multiple posting - the engine kept telling me my comment was not posted because it was too long. Sorry, but I have no way of correcting/deleting it now.
@bluehex: Nate and Eliot would be in different circles, but not always. Eliot was a retrieval specialist. Sometimes he's retrieving stuff that's being taken from IYS..sometime's he's retread stuff for them.
Not that a story wouldn't be interesting, but I wonder if it's anything more than "Here's the statue you asked for, Mr. Ford."
@VideoBeagle: I understand about Eliot potentially retrieving IYS insured stuff, but still – stylistically and emotionally, Nate seems to belong in Sophie/Parker world rather than Eliot’s.
Wv: nostr = almost us.
@Tori, I very much agree with you (I was taking issue with the "he couldn't have killed a family/child/whatever because he's not a psychopathic killer" statement.
He is clearly haunted by some of the things he's done (go back to the end of "Scheherazade" when he's sitting at that table with Jane; that's a man wrestling with his past). We've seen more regret from him this season than we ever have before. And the park scene in BJJ basically turned that regret into an open wound.
Eliot knows who and what he is, he knows what he's done, and he knows it's not good. Now, he doesn't agonize over it on a daily basis, he doesn't wallow in guilt, and he doesn't spend hours mulling over "what might have been." He made his decisions and choices for better or worse, and he accepts the consequences. One of the differences between him and Nate is that he's not crippled by his past.
At the same time, he doesn't want to be that man any more. Being with the team has opened a new path to him, and he's happily (or as happy as Eliot gets *g*) walking it. He considers himself beyond redemption, but atonement is still an option, as is trying to keep others from making his mistakes (see the kid in "Underground Job").
But that man who used to work for Moreau, and God knows who else, is still in there, and he is still capable of grim and dirty deeds. He'll let that man out if he has to, but he will hate like hell having to do it, he'll hate like hell that his family has to see it, and he will be pissed as hell at whoever forced him to let the bad man off his leash.
Eliot's not a woobie by any stretch of the imagination, but he's still human enough to be appalled by some of the things he's done. And, yes, that park scene showed us a man who is appalled. And ashamed. I don't think he wants his family to know all the things he's done. I think he wants to be a man who doesn't have to do those things any more. And Moreau took all that away from him.
Also, his being a soldier, which he clearly is to his core, doesn't mitigate his remorse. Soldiers do dirty, terrible things all the time (goes with the job) and seldom have any choice. But that doesn't mean it doesn't leave a mark (I echo your example of soldiers returning with PTSD).
For Eliot, the worst part may well be that at one point he did have a choice. He wasn't serving his country then, he was serving Moreau and himself. And he could've walked away sooner than he did. He just chose not to.
@SueN
I could not possibly agree more. Marry me.
Where does Nate get his con hats? When he's on the job he always seems to wear the same sort of style and I'm thinking I need to pick one or two up.
Wasn´t there any concerns about Sophies face being all over the news since she´s wanted in a bunch of countries?
@Darke
Being underwater would actually make the tumbler louder and easier to hear when picking a lock. Sounds are amplified underwater.
However, since Hardison had the actual key, it's kind of a moot point.
@SueN-If anything, I'd think his fingerprints would be better detected on the guns after they'd been on fire.
@24jg13-Advancements in forensics technology have made fingerprint mutilation increasingly difficult to pull off, as even severely damaged fingers will provide investigators with clues.
Wv: bangses-What Parker calls "having sex".
I've already made my serious comment (and asked some questions) so this one ain't for Rogers...it's for the fans:
Am I the only one who read:
Aviation Grade Lubricant
and instead saw:
Avant Gard Lubricant
and immediately had a Torchwood moment?
Because Rogers & Co. quote Who...it's not TOO out there...right?? I mean I can't be the only person who saw this...I can't...please say I can't...
This is probably a bit left field but had you guys been reading any David Eddings when you came up with "Rams Horn" as the project name for the bomb? IIRC, Sparhawk (the hero) diffuses an entire war with that as a password.
If not, then great minds think alike I guess. Oh, and thanks for another great season.Can't wait for Season 4.
@Denita, @SueN-If anything, I'd think his fingerprints would be better detected on the guns after they'd been on fire.
I was kinda wondering about that.
Still, it's Eliot, so … ;)
@Tori Angeli: I'm honored, but my hubby might protest.
@Kane's Canadian-I'm positive a lot of imaginations were inspired the second fans read "Aviation Grade Lubricant". :)
A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste. - Jules Carlysle
Awesome episode! Thank you!
So who was the person The Italian on the phone with at the end of The Morning After Job?
Michelle
Someone asked how Hardison got the keys in the pool. Since a desk chair really has no place next to the pool, I'd surmise Moreau has used this tactic before and any one of his men could have tossed the keys in after Eliot passed the test. I regret having looked away at that precise moment. Every one of the actors in this Finale brought their "A" game. Hardison realizing that he really isn't the "Bad" criminal that Eliot is.Eliot showing his true colors as more of a professional than I think the Leverage team gave him credit for, [the great part about this is that Nate will respect his skills more, with the rest of the team still in the dark]Parker not losing site of her own reality, understandably so, when you live with so much pain, it makes sense to spin it to your benefit. Sophie letting down her guard a bit, and Nate standing toe to toe with the "Big Bad".I could see him becoming less intimidated by the Italian as we approached this confrontation with Moreau, and all I could have asked for was that Moreau's men be more evil,if that's possible. Looking for that in Season 4. It's not likely that just because Moreau is locked away, that some of his connections won't start looking in Ford's direction for vengeance. I love how Gina does the "and scene" when Sophie's "acting", just surprised to see her "acting" and not "grifting" the part of the grieving widow. Totally agree that playing the death scene, eyes open was risky... would love more of this "Sophie can sell anything when she really has to".
HPT41 Container is pretty heavy duty corregated, but I'll bet there was something a bit denser inside, and we see at the end of the "slide" Spencers steel barrel piercing incendiary rounds igniting the explosives, nice touch taking out the "warning graphic" in our site line ;)Time is relative... 30 sec. to us could have been a split second in the warehouse.When did the writer's realize that Eliot would need help [hydraulic fluid] to slide that far?Many of Moreau's men had no doubt only heard of the Spencer Legend, and perhaps hesitated for a moment thinking he would spare their lives, maybe he was still one of them?The way Eliot came bursting into the hanger and straight for Moreau was his natural response, and gave us more reason to need a Mastermind with a plan to take out Moreau, illiminating the immediate threat against them, but still having access to information that
perhaps only Moreau possesses?
Moreau must have a soft spot for the Italian, are they related? From a spectators view, it's nice to not have to resurrect characters to bring them back in future episodes [Shower scene from "Dallas"] As for Nate/Sophie in bed together without the romantic buildup? We're talking about a grifter/thief and a insurance man/Mastermind, I don't think you can argue that this couldn't have happened sooner. I'd be willing to bet they were both drunk enough
to assume that something happened, but in reality they were probably just sober enough to fall into bed. It would be hilarious to watch them in the future, trying to decipher what actually happened,
similar to the Rashamon Job only more conjecture than fact.
Interesting to see I wasn't the only one to think of Bruce Willis/Cybill Shepherd in Moonlighting when someone started whining about the lack of romance between N/S. We're dealing with hitmen, mafia and Insurance Companies... having an open relationship is like ordering a pair of concrete boots for your significant other...cont.
Finale..part II
What's really fun about Leverage, is that after watching the first 3 seasons, it gets easier to pick out the foreshadowing. I remember having to watch the first 2 seasons more than once to catch everything. Now I'm seeing more the first time, like the four figures in SWAT-like gear,and I immediately assume, part of the team is involved. It must be getting more difficult for your writers to surprise us, but that makes it even more amazing when they do.I've read through these comments and questions, and for the most part, I've decided I don't want the answers. I love that I can watch Leverage intent on recognizing locations and Portland friends who are involved and be so swept up in the story, regardless of how fantastical it can be, that I enjoy every nuance, every expression. Did I mention how much I enjoyed the warehouse scene effects? Implausible or not, that was smokin'!! And I cheered right along with the rest of Portland when Bonanno appeared. But I do have one question; in the train sequence, what purpose do the grates overhanging the end of the cars serve, other than making it easier to jump from one to the next?Thanks again, John, for pulling it all together, spending so much time pre/post production with your fans. Now, let's go steal a New Year, it'd make a great cover for blowing shit up!
Epic Captcha: Verig
Thank you for a really wonderful send-off for this season. On first watching I found the difference in pace between the two episodes quite off-putting, but on rewatching I really appreciated the fact you don't follow accepted norms and make the season finale an angst-ridden cliffhanger. Yet another reason to add to the 1,045 already existing to love this show.
At first I struggled a little with the way that in SLJ Moreau seemed to go from being the team's sinister and omnipotent nemesis to being just another guy in a suit - but you know, I think you were making a point there (what can I say, I'm a little slow). Not least of course that in BBJ the team had stripped him of much of his resources which were the source of his power, but also in that if one is used to being able to manipulate everybody around one, where can one go when one has been so beautifully outmanoeuvred by a twenty-four year old with a disdain for authority? Yet another piece of pertinent social commentary. :)
Christian Kane knocked it out of the park on BBJ: the interplay between Eliot and Parker in the park brought tears to my eyes (huge kudos to Beth too for that). As for the warehouse scene, I actually paused it as Eliot started his slide and found myself proclaiming out loud 'Ludicrous!' in just the same tone my dear father used to use at the ending of every Blake's 7 episode - while he waited eagerly for me to put the next video in. The belt buckle? MASTERFUL.
Loved the ending. Loved so many storylines coming together, not least pretzels. Oh, which reminds me: somebody further up the thread (I'm sorry but I can't remember who) mentioned that now they understand why Eliot was so grumpy throughout this season, and that was an epiphany for me: I really SHOULD know by now to trust you with these things, but I had been a little disappointed by what I felt was threatening to become a bit of a caricature of Eliot with the grumpiness (yes it's hilarious, but it has felt unremitting this season), and now I understand WHY. Please send Eliot Spencer to retrieve my Aragorn lunchbox next time I forget to relax and just trust you with these things. Mind you, he'd have a fight on his hands.
June
Loved the matrix style shoot out with Christian, since Christian choreographs the fight scenes did he come up with this idea and how many takes were shot, and last would you honestly tell us how many times Chris wiped out during the shoot and will any of the outtakes be on the DVD ?
Jon gotta ask, at the Con Con Gina Bellman said that at the end of season 3 her real name was going to be engraved on the dog tag style necklace she has been wearing throught the season, she wasn't wearing the necklace in the finale so will we see it in season 4 ?
What location filled in for San Lorenzo's exteriors? Italy? It definitely didn't look like Portland :) Thanks for helping to create another great season of Leverage!
@Christine, the distance shots looked a bit like Santorini. But it also looked like there was some manipulation going one.
QUESTION. This is my last, I promise!
I like the split season, but the mid-season finale almost always seems somewhat anti-climactic to me since its such a long wait until new eps. The big finales like this one definitely help tide a person over.
Has any thought been given to going with two mini-seasons a year as opposed to a single split season? So that you have 6-8 eps with the last two being a big blockbuster finale in the summer and then rinse and repeat in the winter?
You could also do an arc like the Moreau one in a single mini-season, so the tension is consolidated over a short time. I like the idea of the ccasional "big bad," but it seems tough for any show to stretch that out over a full season. It tends to get spotty no matter who does it. It might be fun to have two mini-seasons, and one could be more stand-alone eps with a big finale and the other could be one with a single villian that the team has to deal with from eps 1 to 6-8.
(And if one of those villians had to be Moreau coming back for his revenge, I could live with that.)
Questions for Mr. Rogers:
Is it that the team keeps getting better ang better or their enermy gets weaker?
I get the feelings that taking down this Russion guyis not as hard as I expected
When they were dealing with Sterling or Tony in pervious season finales they got shot, caught and they were forced to blow up their own place and seprate for sometime, but this time their plan gose so smoothly
especially in ep16...
Poor Merou just sit there and wait to be caught. He can't touch any of them from the beginning, and the only one time he got Nate is because Nate wants to have a word with the former President.
Of coure I really love to see them win in the end, and Eliot's JAMES BOND sence is really cool. but I was hoping Merou to be more tough to deal with.
I remember when I watched the CATCHUP vedio for season 3 before the HOHOHO job on TNT website , there is a sentence that I strongly agree: The Bigger the CON , the Harder they FALL.
And that's what we love about leverage what makes leverage a hot TV show...unpredictable and full of surprises.
Actually I thought about what will happen in the finale, but among so many guesses, I never though it would be a happy ending.(Well...at least a happy ending for Nate and our First Lday :)
Season 3 is fantastic and looking forward to Season 4
@Christine
The exteriors were along the Dalmatian Coast of Croatia, mostly Dubrovnik and Sibenik (Visnjic's home town).
Well Rogers, if you're still reading by this point I applaud you, there's three hundred and twenty odd (and some are really odd, My Little Pony, seriously?? :-) ) comments ahead of this one.
First, thank you and the whole cast and crew for another great season. If you want to come to Denver and take up all the parking here for awhile I won't mind in the least!
Second, I also thought of David Eddings when Ram's Horn was mentioned, glad to know I wasn't the only one. And yes I was waiting to hear the general's name was actually Atherton Wing (though the body in the morgue was stabbed ... hmm)
I do have a question about distances and timing, Sophie and Vittori are in one place at the end of the election. She states she will deal with the security guards coming for Matthew and gets him into the crowd where she is then "shot". Right before this happens, Sophie says she needs help and Elliot says he is out of position.
At the reveal later, we see it's Eliot and Flores who were the "shooters" however Eliot and Parker had to break Flores and his group out of the Tombs under the palace. So where is the palace in relation to where Sophie and Matthew were that Elliot and Parker could effect a rescue and still get back in time to shoot Sophie? The timing of all of that was weird for me.
Had another realization tonight...after seeing the gun battle & what Eliot is capable of, it brought me back to the Eliot introduction scene from Nigerian Job. What happened in the room after Eliot walks in was never shown, just a bunch of gunfire from outside. Does anyone else think that Big Bang was what happened in that room when Eliot "retrieved the merchandise"?
In SLJ, at 17 minutes in (time including commercials), when Moreau and El Presidente are discussing Vittori's speech... Moreau says "was very odd... it was good." And as he realizes "something's going on," there's a music cue that starts with a very distinctive three notes.
I swear those three notes are quoted from Lalo Schifrin's scoring for _Mission: Impossible_.
M:I's score used that little riff often in similar circumstances. (Original series, and maybe the Australian revival too... movies? Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.)
The whole episode had a bit of an M:I feel, what with going into another country to rescue political prisoners and kick out the evil dictator, etc.
But just a bit. The IMF never let themselves have this much fun!
Does anyone else think that Big Bang was what happened in that room when Eliot "retrieved the merchandise"?
No. I've come to the conclusion that Eliot was dreaming that sequence. :)
@ Just how bullet proof are cardboard boxes?
It could just be me, but I assumed he just jumped behind a box full of metal plates or something. They are, after all, in the middle of a warehouse filled with aviation items.
NIFTY
In my dreamworld, S4 focuses on Parker and Hardison, with the season finale cliffhanger being that Moreau is free & has formed an Evil League of Evil of past Leverage villains. Can you imagine Danny Strong, Wil Wheaton, and Saul Rubinek all in the same episode? Add in a cameo by one of the Supernatural boys and the television would explode from the sheer awesomeness of it all.
en re Moreau's final "Who are you people?" line from the jail cell:
I took it more as just because he knows Nate Ford's name and who he was/is in the crime world, doesn't mean he knows what Nate Ford + team DOES. Remember in Two Live Crew when it was established that the crime world thinks Nate runs the "toughest crew this side of the Atlantic"?
If Moreau thinks that Nate's a criminal with the same motivations as himself, then it would be very understandable that he would want to shout "Who are you?" in much the same way Sterling admitted (when asked about Nate in MFJ by the FBI guy "Who is this guy?") "I don't know."
It's not so much about knowing WHO the person is, but rather not knowing what motivates them. This makes them wild cards.
And when you think the world should play by your rules because you have guns and money ...
OH! And the whole thing about Hardison picking a lock:
Rodgers said that's part of the whole criminal handbook thing. Everyone can pretty much do it. Doesn't mean Hardison had the necessary stuff with him at the time. Parker definitely would have, but not Hardison.
With the warehouse scene, I think the whole crew was drawing on everything action from the dawn of the western. It's the epitome of why action movies work and why we all love Eliot so much even though he has done some very bad things.
Me again. :)
I just watched SLJ again, and I can't say enough about how much fun it is. It's such a great contrast in tone to BBJ.
I think what I love most is that it really shows just how good the team is. We've seen them take down bad guys before, seen those bad guys slowly unravel as their worlds begin to collapse, but this time it happened despite the Big Bad knowing a) who they were and b) why they were there. It was just a wonderful up-tempo ride, especially after the soul-wrenching BJJ.
But I do have one question: How did Parker get down that steam vent? And how badly did Eliot's head explode when he discovered she had?
Did Goran Visnjic know what the smear ad with the puppy was going to be before the filming? He has a smirk on his face that seems a little out of character. Or is he just laughing at the president?
@ToriA, SueN, and VB:
Late to the party (tooo many comments to wade through until now), but I'll throw my hat into the ring for the Eliot-killer thing. Especially now that y'all appear to have settled it. ;)
I agree with most of what was said (apart from the beating kids to death: NO. Eliot would not ever do that. Kill, yes – and that's more than enough reason for a permanently blackened soul. But he'd do it cleanly and quickly, and there's no suggestion that it's par for Moreau's thugs to torture families before killing them. The mere threat that opposing him will destroy your family is enough, one assumes. More than that is fanfiction-levels of OTT.)
As I understand it, Eliot maintained his ethic of violence as an appropriate response. These men were here to kill them, and there was no way of stopping them without killing them, and the only way to kill them all efficiently was to shoot them. (And, yeah, the slide bit was kind of ridiculous, but it also kind of tactically makes sense, at least in tv world – as someone said, low, moving, and turning the enemy's cross-fire into covering fire for himself. It looked like he shot the box of lubricant intentionally. Gotta love that Eliot looks at a kill box and decides to make it work for him.)
Having kept to that ethic, having judged it necessary, is probably the main determinant of how guilty he feels over something he did, even more than what that thing IS. He's worked through the good/bad reasons issue a long time ago; we've never seen him second-guess the actions he's taken, which means he's aware of this as he makes the decisions. This wasn't a "lapse"; it was a decision. Which means that he's not any more likely to kill in the future just because he killed now. That would make it an addiction, which it clearly is not.
So much for the issue of killing itself. Here's the other thing: it was made a particular point that EVERY ONE of Moreau's men have done worse things than Eliot. Given that he asked Eliot to kill Atherton, it looks like he runs that kind of moral check on anyone working for him, and repeats as needed, not to mention business as usual. Under Moreau, every one of these guys have killed children and will do so again. So, no, I don't think Eliot will be agonizing over killing them at all. He knows exactly who he killed. After all, it's implied he used to run them, or was at least offered the job. He just saved kids' lives (with Moreau down, they'd only get employment elsewhere), and if that ain't picking up where the law left off, I don't know what is. It's not a slippery slope to Eliot becoming a vigilante killer (see above), but sometimes you need an executioner.
Final note (which no one was arguing about): I got the sense that the idea behind the stand-up-and-stare-down was justified by his reputation; that the name Eliot Spencer bought enough awe among these guys for him to command the space and freak them out just a little more, and use it.
On the other hand (and I am seriously stunned that there haven't been more comments about this, AND that I'M the one harping on it this time around), maybe they were all just entranced by The Hair. Because damn. I've never cared much about it one way or another before this, but these two episodes, somehow it was just stunning (even got its own slow-mo moment). Kane completely, utterly nailed his scene in the park, and somehow that damn hair was upstaging him. I call an official WTF.
Re: the belt buckle - looks like one Kane has worn before to me, from his own wardrobe? (Which makes it sound like I go stalking him, which I do not. I just have a lot of friends who appreciate the pretty, and they like to share photos, and the belt buckle looks vaguely familiar.)
Re: Kane in general - what DOES he prefer to be called? Kane, Christian, Chris, Hey you? I keep seeing various names used in different places.
I'm fascinated by how much romanticizing of Eliot goes on in these discussions, particularly with regard to BBJ.
Yes, the Eliot we know nowwon't kill children, but the Eliot of old seems more than capable of that, and more. Most of what we learned about him via Moreau is so ambiguous, we can't be sure of anything.
To my mind, there are two ways to interpret the scene where the Busey says they usually kill the family: one being that Moreau knows Eliot's rule is not to kill children, and the other is that Moreau knows this Eliot, versus the one who worked for him, won't kill the rest of the family. One is as feasible as the other given what we saw.
What tips the balance, for me, in favor of the latter is that it's pretty clear from the airport scene Moreau had already twigged that Eliot was wearing a white hat of late, and the otherwise pointless mission to kill Atherton was as much a cat playing with a toy as Moreau testing Eliot's word. He had his fun without setting any conditions that would require him to brook any resistance from Eliot. It was a very calculated move, indeed.
Loved the episodes. They were over the top, but entertaining.
Will we ever get to see Eliot get seriously injured? He goes through a lot and seems to come out unscathed each time.
Has Eliot ever murdered a child?
Would Sophie have taken a real bullet for Vittori/the people? She's always had a kind streak, but seems to have turned a lot more caring since The King George Job.
Lastly, there's been hints all along that some of the team has darker pasts, and now it seems like Eliot has a black hole for his. Will we ever get emotionally hurting team members the way we did when Sophie betrayed them way back when?
Re: Elizabeth Canalis' imdb profile:
Did you name the presidential candidate after her dog?
Will you guys ever do a crossover with Hustle?
Are the name of the con schemes that mention in various episodes real? I guess the Monalisa variant is probably quite real but how about the other name.
1) Like everyone else, thinking about the Ocean's Eleven parallels, specifically the elevator.
2) Did you change the filming style of #316 on purpose to have of a European look? I don't know how else to classify it, but there's a particular graininess, and lighting quality that you usually only see in British/Euro shows and movies.
I forgot to mention it earlier but among the many, MANY things to love about SLJ was Eliot's Canadian impression. It was a hoot!
Thanks again for a fabulous season.
June
Is the team really going to just let Eliot's past go or is it going to come back to haunt them?
@Daisy: Except Moreau knew they were good guys..He mentioned the white hat to Eliot, and he knew about them taking out Duberman in Class Reunion.
@Kim H: I took the smirk at him seeing his former hitman, Eliot, holding a puppy while setting up the con.
I have to agree with most of the the people who posted here that it was 2 hours of great television! You are a gift to television and to us for bring this show onto our screens.
I am going to list my favorite bits 'cause just because:
1) of course the warehouse scene. Eliot's comment could have come from a reference - I don't know that much other stuff as a bunch of the other people seem to know however it did remind me of a quote from the TV series Highlander: Methos comments 'just because I don't fight doesn't mean I can't' after kicking some ass
And I have to say I wanted to see Eliot pick up a gun. Although I was hoping he would have been a better crack shot, it would have been cooler if he could have taken down more guys. But then you would not have that awesome slide.
Also we had been shown that each of these people are the best at what they do. Every week we are witness to Hardison doing something unbelievable on his computer or Parker pulling of the impossible. I wanted to see Eliot do what he did best and this was proof that he is the best that is out there.
I did not get the belt reference so I would love it if someone could explain - if there is anything to explain.
2) I for some reason love the puppy scandal - the whole thing had me laughing out loud, CK's interaction with the puppy to Goran V. holding onto his mirth as he obviously knew it was like a big joke. His reaction to the thing showed me that might have been the reason Eliot and Damien sort of getting along, he gets a joke, even if it is on his expense - or am I reading to much into it? To Nate's gestures to the candidates "I think I hate you" comment the whole thing was great.
3)I think this was two great episodes for CK he acted out his heart. The park scene was great, his whole acting in the first part was great but my favorite was his look towards Parker in the San Lorenzo job - it just showed his love for her, just like an older brother would look upon his sister. You know that this guy would die, kill for her! Just loved it!
I have a concern about a bit in the end where Hardison asks where is your luggage and Eliot says 'I don't travel with luggage' why make that comment? These guys have traveled to a lot of places before and we know that Eliot had different stuff with him, we know he has luggage - just seemed out of place for me.
Sorry for the long rambling - these comments are not worthy of a great writer like you... but thank you for giving us a place to ask and question your genius.
@zeyneb-Not sure what belt reference you meant but Kane has worn several of his own clothing items and jewelry in various roles. He has a bracelet that's been in just about everything he's done since his Angel days. And I'm not 100% positive but the belt buckle he wore in that slide scene looks like it could be the same one he wore in the sword fight scene in the Angel episode "You're Welcome".
I read through all 346 comments and only one person mentioned something that bugged me,but that person didn't elaborate so I had to post here. Everyone was wondering how killing those guys affected Elliot, but nobody noticed that Parker and Hardison killed two guys without a backwards glance. When they punched the guys out in the train and than blew the car up there was no possible way they dragged two unconscious guards out and saved their lives.
As for Elliot killing people, hes killed people on leverage. At the beginning of the second episode when he gets the call that they have a case while hes working another job, he has just killed someone and than he kills the other guy after he asks him if his mother has his number. If you chop someone in the neck like that you dont knock them unconscious, you kill them.
Also, why he doesnt like guns. He explains that in the Miracle Job. "they have a specific range of ethicasy" you get to close to someone and they can use your weapon against you.
Mr Rogers, didn't think that I'd see a sensitive Eliot scene that I liked more that The Tap Out Job (Eliot/Sophie - "I'm losing a fight, not throwing myself on a grenade") but the whole "Parker don't ask what I did" was so well acted that the Tap Out Job is a distant memory.
My question is - when will the season 3 DVD be out as I can't wait for the commentary on the warehouse gun scene even though I know it's going to cost me far to much money to get it shipped to the UK.
I used to work for the company that own Jameson so if you make it over for the Leverage Con in the UK next year there's a bottle of Jameson Gold with your name on it. Cheers
Kirstie
@Kirstie - bribing John Rogers with liquor? You are a smart gal, lol.
Not going to scroll back through to see who left the comment, but whoever clarified that the line in the car was "stolen in Virginia" rather than "still in Virginia" - thanks!! Re-watched that scene after your post, and realized his accent just tripped me up on that line. Appreciate the assist.
All my pretentious musings for this season finale revolve around Eliot for some reason.
I've been looking at the previous stories, and how we've seen for the last 3 years Eliot not killing people, just knocking the crap out of them, and then seeing him just outright killing the hell out of a room full of heavies, dispatching the first one with his bare hands in under a second... and I've come to the conclusion that Eliot is purposely making things hard on himself most of the time.
He could have just killed many of the henchmen he's faced. He could have just snapped necks, broken backs, driven bone into brain, and not doing that, just knocking these guys out probably eliminates some of the comfort zone they need to complete a job. It's probably caused him to take a lot of punishment he could have saved himself if he went for the kill.
Eliot's penance isn't just to help people and keep the team safe, it's to make these jobs really hard on himself, and not kill unnecessarily.
I loved how Parker had a moment with each character - with Eliot in the park, 'Pretzels' with Hardison, 'Very, very drunk' with Nate, and Sophie's Turkish-taxi driving. And I appreciate the new twist in duct crawling. But I was puzzled how she could describe steam as 'a dry heat.'
Parker is indeed growing, but she's still crazy.
But my question is this, if the Italian wasn't under the covers between Nate & Sophie, then did she spend the night with Eliot?
@Anonymous-Somewhere on the 130 tagged Leverage threads on this blog, John Rogers left a comment about that scene from the pilot episode. I don't have the time or patience to seek it out but the gist was that Eliot did not kill those men. He knocked them out with those moves.
Hi John - Absolutely great episodes! Kudos to you and the team!
Only one question that I don't think has been asked as of yet: I notice that Damian Moreau wore a wedding ring. Any chance of meeting Mrs. Moreau in the future? Would she be angry at the team for locking Damian away, thankful that they freed her? Any chance there's some history between Eliot and Mrs. Moreau?
Thanks for another fun season. Yours is BY FAR the best show on the tube!
@Denita, Of course John also said Eliot broke into the house at the end of The Order 23 Job and killed Randy's abusive Dad by making it look like he choked on a pretzel.
Of course, he may have been kidding about that one.
Can I vote for The Italian as Mrs. Moreau?
I mean, who else but a wife would put that much thought, time and effort into taking down a husband?
@Anonymous: Nah, the reason Eliot doesn't like guns is because knows (and now we do, too) just how damned good he is with them.
Too many questions to read through! I can't even imagine you having to answer them all so I'm not going to ask one. I just wanted to say that after watching these two episodes a few times, I am even more blown away with the scene in the park in the Big Bang Job. Everyone acted the hell outta that scene. I noticed it with Beth and Christian the first time but watching it the second time I realized how they ALL acted the hell outta that scene. It also showed how strong a team they are now. I was originally disappointed that 'Harker' didn't happen in the season finale but after watching it the second time I realized if they had it would have been too big of a jump for them. Parker admitting feelings and being interested in 'pretzels' and Hardison realizing what that meant - was a good payoff for this season. But if they vacation together of the 'break' I wouldn't be too upset lol
Thank you SO much for leaving on an upbeat note and with closure instead of an angsty cliffhanger like the last two seasons. I'll miss Leverage until Season 4 comes back on!
So I just caught a rerun of The Big Bang Job and I realized why I so dearly love Elliot's slide through the airplane lubricant (other than its own intrinsic awesomeness). Forget The Matrix or The Transporter or La Femme Nikita or Equilibrium or any action movie. That slide was straight from the finale of Strictly Ballroom. And that is utterly cool.
@SueN Can I vote for The Italian as Mrs. Moreau?
Too weird. Clooney's arm candy married to the guy who replaced him on ER? Seriously too weird.
The last bit of dialogue as the hauled him off to the pokey suggests she's some sort of law enforcement, and he knows what it is.
Okay. After watching it on Sunday, then again via DVR tonight. I have one thing to say. HOTTEST. GUN BATTLE. EVAR. It may have looked like he was sliding through water or some other liquid, but we all know Christian was sliding through the drool of his fangirls.
@Chelsea NH - I know! Especially when he did the turn. I was like, The Paso Doble!
@IMForeman
I’m gonna disagree with you on the reason that Eliot’s not killing people with his bare hands, right and left, with his bare hands. He’s not punishing himself or doing penance. First, I think that Eliot just plain doesn’t like to kill people. More importantly from a plot POV, he’s thinking strategically in addition to tactically. If bodies started piling up around all of the team’s cons, they couldn’t do what they do. Cops aren’t going to care if some thugs got beaten up by a bunch of con men. They were thugs. OTOH, dead bodies showing up is evidence of MURDER. Eliot knows that if he kills these guys, the cops that are going to eventually be brought into the mix are NOT going to take the view that “Maybe the guys that took down [Bastard in Suit] are crooks, but they did a good thing and we can let that go.” That is the essence of Nate’s relationship with Bonanno. If Nate’s crew was regularly producing dead bodies, Bonanno would be making it his life’s mission to take the team down…and he’d be right to do so.
Like I said above, I don’t think Eliot WANTS to kill all that hired muscle, but even if he didn’t care for their lives one wit, it’s still the smart play to avoid leaving a trail of bodies in your path.
@Aononymous, Oh, I know. I was being facet … facec … I was joking.
@ChelseaNH, Strictly Ballroom yes!! (Rogers, next season can we have the team steal a ballroom dance school? I want to see Eliot and Sophie get their nasty on again.)
But, seriously, no one has mentioned yet that the team went off to The Island of Mr. Moreau?
We're slipping, people …
...
The Island of Mr. Moreau.
Mr. Rogers, you named him Damien Moreau just so you could make that joke, didn't you?
The real reason Riberra had him arrested is because of the insane laws Moreau was making him institute.
His mandatory vegan initiative: Not to eat meat. That is the Law! Are we not men?
His posture enforcement: Not to go on all fours. That is the Law! Are we not men?
Etc…
@David Hunt
re: Eliot not killing
Agreed. Eliot is thinking of the long term outcomes as well as the short term. Although I'd take it a step further and say he doesn't even like to use violence unless he has to. Again, that whole "appropriate response" thing. He doesn't use it unless there's no other option, and he uses only as much as he needs to get the job done. He's definitely keeping a check on himself, but penance is kind of too self-involved and pointless, since he doesn't believe redemption is possible for him.
And I was really glad someone brought up the two guys on the train. That is NOT the fun train.
@Anonymous
The "dry heat" line is one from Aliens – Bill Paxton's character, Hudson, says it early on – and it's heavily sarcastic. What I wouldn't give for a "Game over, man! Game over!"
Oh, and the thing with the fingerprints on the guns – I'm not clear on why anything would retain fingerprints after being on fire, given that fingerprints are caused by the oil on the raised ridges of skin being left on a surface. The oil would just burn off. And for the same reason not everything will take a print. I remember reading somewhere, and goodness knows where, that because guns have a film of oil on them, they don't tend to take prints at all.
I'm stranded in a hotel due to bad weather, but I have all 3 seasons on Amazon VOD. Where should my Leverage marathon begin?
Favorites, anyone? I'm a newish fan, so all suggestions are welcome!
Jugglernaut, by all means, start with the Pilot. Are you going chronologically, or just sampling willy-nilly?
@Jugglernaut - If you have them all, my suggestion is to simply watch them in order. I have favorite episodes, but for someone who hasn't seen them before, in order is best, in my opinion.
@Nina May-It's less of an oil and more of an acid that leaves a fingerprint on a gun. And it wasn't just the guns he left prints on, it was the clips, too.
Thanks — I've seen all the eps once now, although somewhat out of order, so I've got the main chronology and themes covered. Now I can pick and choose favorites for fun. Keep 'em coming — I'm gonna be here a while! ;-)
@Denita – really? Fair enough, then. Like I said, I can't remember where I read it, so I can't find the source (or the validity of it!).
On the other hand, they haven't shown much concern for leaving fingerprints before now in LeverageLand. Maybe Hardison makes sure to erase all records of their fingerprints, so it doesn't matter how many are recovered by those hardworking CSI teams. They're only as good as their databases, and as we all know, Hardison is very much better than those.
@Jugglenaut, I have a soft spot for The Wedding Job, but The Two Horse Job, The Bank Shot Job, The 12 Step Job and the Davids finales are all brilliant from S1.
I've been through all the comments, so, I guess, so far, at least, I'm the only one who got a "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" vibe from the repeated "Who are you/ who are you guys" line. Anyone else?? Hey, JR, am I right with this homage?
@sandi_h – thank you, it’s been driving me crazy, I wrote way back about 200 comment I think that I remembered some movie or show where they said Who are you, but if I remember correctly with you reference, doesn’t Butch turn to Sundance and say “Who are those guys” cause they can track them over rock and stream and wherever they go?
@24jg13 Yup.
First off, GREAT episodes!!
just a few questions:
1. The guards at the elevator didn't recognize Elliot before he told them his name, then the guards at the pool recognized that this was a guy that needed to have guns drawn at. Did the pool guys (other than the lead) recognize Elliot on site?
2. During the "friends" talk, Sophie kept hitting Nate on the chest with the flower. Was she using NLP? If so, what was her agenda?
3. Before Elliot leaves Nate's room he makes a comment about things being "back to normal." So was Sophie's "uh-oh" more directed to "what have we done" or to Elliot's comment on normalcy cause Nate and Sophie hooking up means nothing's back to normal?
I thought Eliot's "back to normal" was a reference to Nate's inebriated/hungover state.
And I did think of "The Island of Mr. Moreau" but dismissed it after the only half-humans were his hench men.
But we had to go there, no extradition style... not because Moreau was protected there, but because Eliot was. I think fingerprints on the guns/magazines/rounds never came into play.
He knew, regardless of the outcome, it wouldn't matter.
Even though I said in an earlier post I didn't want to know.. I'm still curious who it was Eliot killed before he met them, perhaps he's protecting them from himself?
AND in other news:
I don't know about y'all, but I can't wait to see all of the fan vids that come out of these last three EPS... ;)
I just had another thought (hey, it's either this, or go to a store on Christmas Eve … *shudder*).
We know Eliot doesn't want his family to know what he did in that warehouse, and we can understand why. But does he really believe they won't find out?
He just caused an explosion in a warehouse (ostensibly some kind of aviation-related warehouse) in Washington, DC, where they sort of take explosions seriously. Particularly since there had already been an explosion at a DoD facility, and, at roughly the same time, there was another explosion happening on a train. Homeland Security has to be in a frenzy.
Not to mention the cable news networks. Fox and CNN will be all over this. And once they discover the burning warehouse is also filled with dead bodies, well, the newsreaders are gonna be positively giddy.
There's some serious cleanup work to be done … which means Hardison. He's going to know. Chances are, they're all going to know.
I guess my question is, does he really think he can keep it from hem? Or is he just trying to buy himself a little time so he can compartmentalize everything before dealing with them?
Also … what the hell happens to Atherton? Yeah, they saved him from Moreau, but this is a former general who's been selling out his country to an international bad guy for years. He's a traitor. I just can't see the team, particularly Eliot, letting him skate away clean.
Can we assume another incriminating envelope was somehow delivered to the appropriate agency, and news footage we'll never see shows him being led off in handcuffs?
Can we assume another incriminating envelope was somehow delivered to the appropriate agency, and news footage we'll never see shows him being led off in handcuffs?
Or turn prosecution's witness? And into the witness protection program?
@anonymous: Hadn't thought about NLP in that scene between Nate and Sophie -- if she IS using NLP, perhaps a little "deflowering"
Okay, I just watched the Eliot gun battle -- I'm behind on my DVRed shows -- and I have to tell you, I'm guffawing. That was straight-up Eliot p0rn if ever there was any. Yeah, I know, gotta keep the fangirls squeeing and all that, but that was way closer to "Mission Impossible"/"Wolverine"/[insert your choice of action flick here] than I'd ever expected to see on "Leverage."
Granted, I'm a relatively new fan. There may have been a lot of "Mission Impossible"-style Eliot p0rn that I just haven't caught up with yet.
At any rate, I'm really enjoying the Parker/Hardison part!
Why ruin a perfectly hyped villain?
Whatever happened to Show Not Tell?
We've been told all season long what a baddie Moreau is. At the finale I expected to SEE it.
Moreau never did ANYTHING to convince me he was worthy of all the fear. Just a tall handsome guy with a ton of EVIL GENIUS 101 props; bikini babes, army of goons & a private jet.
And everybody still yapping about the dangerous Moreau...
GV did as well as could be expected. The part was seriously under-utilized, under-written and neglected.
I hold you guys to a much higher standard. I'm disappointed.
Jeez, Beige, how much more evil/menacing can you get once you kick a guy handcuffed to a chair into a pol, then stand there swigging Scotch and smilingly negotiating with Eliot?
A bit surprised no one's mentioned this, but is San Lorenzo a Cat's Cradle reference?
Because I think that's pretty awesome if it was.
I think it's a fair point that Moreau collapsed like a fighter with a glass jaw.
On the other hand, I don't think the San Lorenzo job would have worked without Moreau beating a fast retreat, and shorn of the majority of his power. He only could have been taken down with a quick one-two punch landed in quick succession; give him time to think and reassess the situation, he could have re-established himself and be more of a threat.
True, Gordon -- that was pretty darned menacing. Poor dear Hardison!! I wanted to scream at Eliot to quit yapping and go get him out already!
I have now watched both episodes three times and I am simply amazed at how much story you got in each hour. I was remembering things happening during the BBJ episode and thinking they must have happened during the SLJ because there wasn't enough time in the BBJ, but yet there they were. Your writing is excellent.
Question: Who is the quicker draw, Raylan Givens or Eliot Spencer?
I think there should be a contest involving slow motion cameras. And both men should be shirtless. And smiling. Definitely shirtless and smiling.
@Christina: "Question: Who is the quicker draw, Raylan Givens or Eliot Spencer? "
With this, the micro-multiverse of Leverage cross-overs that exists within the snowflake of my mind just increased exponentially in size, yet out of the 196,833 Eliot Spencers in my head, all of them always draw first.
re: The My Little Pony discussion from earlier in the thread:
http://scavgraphics.deviantart.com/art/My-Leverage-Pony-190825855
@Gordon: I can handcuff someone to chair and push them in a pool. That doesn't make me the biggest crime lord in the world. Had he just shot Hardison through the head, that'd be something. As is..he wasn't very crime lordy.
@Video Beagle, "As is..he wasn't very crime lordy."
Well, no, and I think that's sort of the point. Bernie Madoff wasn't very "crime lordy" either, but he stole some fifty billion dollars. When was the last time AIM or Kobra stole fifty billion dollars? I think the point of Moreau wasn't that he was a mustache twirling villain who cackled and wrung his hands with glee as he shackled Parker to his latest deathtrap...a printing press themed device that would be designed to print false dollars with the entrails of it's victims...um. What was I saying?
Moreau, right. Nate said it, he was just a businessman. His business was crime, only on a slightly larger scale than the guys they took out last season in Bellridge. Oh, sure, his size made him more dangerous, the same way a lion is more dangerous than a bobcat, but all the same, he operated on the same principles and frameworks. Kadjic owned a port, Moreau owned a country.
I think this may be why Chaos and Sterling are more interesting villains. They, like the Leverage team itself, are at a manpower disadvantage, so their plans are trickier, more novel. Moreau wasn't a different kind of threat, just a bigger one that require more effort to take down, not necessarily craftier effort.
So, while I won't say Moreau is my favorite bad guy we've seen the team take down, I think the expectations (which I myself had) that he was going to be more MODOK than Madoff make us think he was less evil or threatening than he really was.
What'll be interesting in season four is seeing the fallout from his empire crumbling. Who will be the scrappy Grand Admiral Thrawn that arises in the midst of the power vacuum? And if that person should happen to have a deathtrap courtesy of the Treasury, all the better!
To all and sundry involved above:
There's one major problem with the whole "Moreau as undercooked crime lord" thesis, that being, Moreau is not a crime lord, nor was he ever sold to us as one.
Moreau is a crime financier, who keeps his distance and never gets his hands dirty. He's evil because he provides the means for evil to continue. Kadjic was a bog-standard crime lord, very simple and one-dimensional. Moreau is evil on a whole other plane; a puppetmaster pulling the strings, covering his tracks and seemingly keeping his hands clean.
The key to Moreau isn't in the pool scene; it's in the evil speech of evil in SLJ. His world view is totally amoral; he's simply a visionary businessman who can out maneuver all comers. But as the pool scene made clear, that means very little trust, and removing obstacles to his way of doing business. He's a cat playing with people for whom he has very little regard as though they were toys, which Eliot learned the hard way.
In the end, his conceit was his downfall, because it was his Achilles heel. That's what Nate figured out. He knew Moreau believed he could control everything in his orbit, and that he expected that what had always worked for him would continue to work for him. Nate simply introduced something new into the mix - Hardison - and Moreau's world collapsed like a house of cards.
I thought Moreau was a welcome change of pace from the hand-stompin', gun totin' baddies we've seen so often. And Goran Visnjic rocked the whole Bond baddie vibe from beginning to end. All he needed was a white cat or a laser (no, Mr. Ford, I want you to DIE!)
It's so great that Leverage producers and writers are all for what's in character and realistic when it comes to Nate and Sophie sex. I guess the Eliot fight scene was just as in character and realistic. How about you make the fight scenes realistic and the love scenes over-the-top romantic and sexy the next time Nate and Sophie decide to do it? ;)
Loved the episodes, particularly the Big Bang Job.
One question - Why didn't Moreau shoot Eliot when he had the chance?
Re: everyone confused about Moreau’s "Who are you" back and forth…
I agree with @Daisy that it’s knowing vs knowing, but skill instead of motivation.
I read it as not knowing who he was the first time.
Then he learned: "Nate Ford, crook with a small team doing good deeds yadda yadda yadaa… who isn't dead only because of Elliot"
The second one (right at the end) was more of a "so I know you’re Nathan Ford, who runs this crew and does stuff, but now I see you as the guy who turned Elliot straight and bested me with your mastermind skills and crack team. Who the hell ARE you to be able to do that?!"
@gordon re: moreau: hear hear.
Also: I appreciate all the posters who take the time to read through all the comments before asking their questions – it’s what we’re expecting mr rogers to do, after all…
Gordon and JarodRussell - EXACTLY on Moreau. He wasn't a crime lord. He was a thoroughly amoral businessman who lost touch with his weaknesses by virtue of his own excesses.
I also love the allusion to a Bond villian, because that's the way I saw Goran V playing it, too. I love the arrogance, moral indifference and entitlement, all punched up with a dose of slick humor. I thought he was great.
On Moreau, add to the fact that the team sneaked up on him, so the setting and conflict itself doesn't show him in his Big Bad mode. It just doesn't have the proportions to show the real scale of the man; that had to be tell, not show.
A full-on frontal assault would have been much more spectacular, like showing a massive fortress being overwhelmed by hundreds of men and the ladders and the boiling oil and the whatnot. But as Nate said, that's not how you take a man like Moreau down; you go in through the back door with a few men that no one else found. Kind of like the battle of Helm's Deep vs The People's Front of Judea in Pilot's palace.
It was played pretty well with Moreau's utter lack of comprehension that he was vulnerable. It really did feel like he was operating on a whole other plane than the team (with the exception of Eliot, perhaps), and was just a little bewildered as to why their two planes were even in contact. And making the villain likeable and urbane does add to the fear factor, which is why Anthony Hopkins was cast for Hannibal Lector after his perfomance in ... Heartlands, was it? Anyhow.
Post a Comment