What wakes liberal writers up at night -- I mean that eye-snap of soul-gnawing, nauseating dread -- is not social injustice, is not the fear of creeping fascism, is not rage against corporate greed ...
It is the haunting certainty that Jonah Goldberg will die happily in his sleep without ever comprehending that he's an idiot.
(Yeah, I tried reading Liberal Fascism. It's just that bad.)
EDIT: One of the commenters wrote:
Wow. Great way to insult half of Leverage's audience. You do realize that there are conservatives that watch and enjoy the show, don't you? This kind of commentary which spews vitriol towards a particular viewpoint only damages and taints the Leverage brand.
I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent at all. Let me clarify.
Goldberg isn't an idiot because he's a conservative. There are quite a few conservatives I both like and admire. We have many conservative fans of the show, because enjoying a good con show, or relishing watching protagonists taking down rich bad guys is neither conservative nor liberal. A fun show is a fun show.
Goldbeg's an idiot because he writes what he writes the way he writes it.
If I'm "spewing vitriol at one particular viewpoint", it's at shoddy research, childlike logic and a truly Cthulhu-level hubris. *
But if you equateGoldberg's massively awful thinking and writing with the conservative movement -- that is, if in your world-view you are OBLIGATED to admire or agree with Goldberg just because he's conservative royalty -- then that's the sort of lockstep, blind hero worship I don't respect in anyone of any ideological stripe.
If you consider an insult to Jonah Goldberg an insult to all conservatives, that's your problem. Not mine. And, frankly, an insult to thinking conservatives.
*(I also found Michael Moore's latest film an embaressment. But this post isn't about him.)
It's not even so much that he doesn't realize that he's an idiot, it's the idea that he'll die thinking that his position in the media was gained by something other than simple nepotism that rankles.
ReplyDeleteEven worse; as an atheist, I'm certain that he won't get to find out even after he dies.
ReplyDeleteI want an afterlife where I can yell "We told you so" at these idiots for eternity.
You didn't pay for the book, did you?
ReplyDeleteWow. Great way to insult half of Leverage's audience.
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that there are conservatives that watch and enjoy the show, don't you? This kind of commentary which spews vitriol towards a particular viewpoint only damages and taints the Leverage brand.
I tried reading Liberal Fascism.
ReplyDeleteJeeze, man, why would you put yourself through that?
Hey, you can have revenge on Goldberg. You've got a TV series where blowhards and frauds get their cumuppance, yeah?
'engratio': Harry Potter spell that makes the target feel indebted to the sender. 3 mana to cast, duration 10 minutes, Will roll to resist.
"You do realize that there are conservatives that watch and enjoy the show, don't you? This kind of commentary which spews vitriol towards a particular viewpoint only damages and taints the Leverage brand."
ReplyDeleteI have a feeling most of the conservatives who watch "Leverage" and read Rogers' blog, tend to be of the John Cole/Andrew Sullivan variety who consider Goldberg an gasbag. All the others (Save the odd concern troll.) tend to pass on by.
@anonymous
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I may have been unclear. Goldberg isn't an idiot because he's a conservative. There are quite a few conservatives I both like and admire. We have many conservative fans of the show, because enjoying a good con show, or relishing a show taking down rich bad guys is neither conservative nor liberal.
Goldbeg's an idiot because he writes what he writes the way he writes it.
I also found Michael Moore's latest film an embarassment. But this post isn't about him.
But if you EQUATE Goldberg's massively awful thinking and writing with the conservative movement -- that is, you are OBLIGATED to admire or agree with Goldberg just because hes conservative royalty -- then that's the sort of lockstep, blind hero worship I don't respect in anyone of any ideological stripe.
"This kind of commentary which spews vitriol towards a particular viewpoint only damages and taints the Leverage brand."
ReplyDelete'Jonah Goldberg' is not a viewpoint, he's a person. And that person is an effing idiot.
And I'm afraid that if you think "half of Leverage's audience" cares enough about the relative merit of Jonah Goldberg to actually be insulted by this post, then you've enormously overestimated the number of thin-skinned people out there who obsessively search for commie influences in their favorite TV shows.
And though I find your comment to be misguided and just a little spiteful, I think you should take heart in the fact that, if Lucianne Goldberg were your mother, you would be more than qualified to edit National Review Online or write a best-selling book about how everyone you don't like is Hitler.
Throttle it back a little Yossarian. I thought the comment was short-sighted, but not spiteful, and I'd prefer if the Comments stay directed outside the Commenter box. I get to break that rule, but it's my blog.
ReplyDeleteout of curiosity, in what way is his research shoddy? i haven't read the book, but am interested to know if he indeed is crap at researching or if you just disagree with his viewpoint by default and so therefore his research his crap.
ReplyDeleteIt's really more a mix of bad research and truly atrocious reasoning.
ReplyDeleteHe can't tell the difference between populism and fascism, barely discusses (or indeed, by his own admission read for the research of the book) Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism - indeed, Mussolini is a socialist for his entire career, according to Goldberg, despite murdering every, you know, socialist he could find.
Most importantly, he never really defines fascism in a book called LIBERAL FASCISM, basically taking a mulligan and saying it's undefinable (before, you know, writing a book about it). All this despite a broad historical consensus about the elements of fascism, including anti-intellectualism, nationalism, a longing to return to a "Golden age" of culture ...
In short, as soon as -- I spotted while leafing ahead -- Goldberg teases the argument that vegetarianism is somehow fascist because the Nazis advocated vegetarianism (meaning, of course, the American moon landing program was fascist because of its link to Werner von Braun) I punched out. And by all accounts, that's not the dumbest thing in the book.
Listen, I think there's a fine book to be written about the authoritarian impulse in both liberal and conservative culture, and there are times Goldberg in the book seems to be flirting with that (accidentally, because he either can't tell the difference or fudges it for his agenda), but this book ain't it.
To be fair, what I read was enjoyable -- he's got a pretty light style. I never stopped reading because of the sort of turgid "behold my mighty intellect" compound phraseology you sometimes encounter in these kinds of books. He makes no sense and embarrassing arguments very, very cleanly and readably Even elegantly.
Sorry, I can't really add to anything that's being said regarding this "media man" being "an idiot.. don't know, don't care at the moment anyway:) BUT I'd like to say I like Leverage as a really "fun show" - not to mention that Tim Hutton and CK are great to watch ;D
ReplyDeleteI'm sure S3 is gonna be awesome!
>> Great way to insult half of Leverage's audience. <<
ReplyDeleteHalf? Let's be honest, it's more like 27%.
out of curiosity, in what way is his research shoddy?
ReplyDeleteFor example, Goldberg posted on the Corner a request for some expert on Herbert Spencer to get in touch with him, as he didn't know much of anything about Spencer and didn't want to take the (admittedly extensive) time to find out himself.
A blogger named Scott Eric Kaufmann, who didn't think much of Goldberg but wanted to do some helpful outreach (and who wrote a dissertation on non-Darwinian theories of evolution in the nineteenth century), emailed him and offered to help. Goldberg sent him a draft passage, and Kaufmann told him he was grossly oversimplifying Spencer's thought; Spencer didn't really think that. Goldberg's response was "THEN WHY DO PEOPLE SAY HE DID?" Then he announced that Kaufmann wasn't helping and should stop emailing him.
Whole story here.
It appears to be bad research in the specific sense of cherrypicking: filtering out sources that disagree with your premise (unless they can be made to sound like they do). There may be other types too.
"Wow. Great way to insult half of Leverage's audience."
ReplyDeleteOnly two people watch Leverage? Then... who are all the people commenting on this site?
Can we just add that Chris Hitchens is a complete moron as well. The worst part of his moronitude (:P) is that he so obviously considers himself, and worse is widely considered by others, to be an "intellectual."
ReplyDeleteAs a person who watches and enjoys "Leverage", and stops by this blog once in a while: what does this blog have to do with that show?
ReplyDeleteGoldberg is an idiot, and not only is Liberal Fascism a complete joke, it's so thoroughly penetrated by inexcusable laziness -- both of research and of argument -- that he must be laughing at all the nimrods who bought it.
ReplyDeleteFascism, for example, is both those who want to 'get beyond politics' and those who want to 'make politics into a religion'. Not making that up.
It's just pathetic.
At the end of the book, Goldberg mentions the infamous argument between William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal, where Vidal kept calling Buckley a fascist, and Buckley got so annoyed that he called Vidal a faggot. Goldberg actually says something to the effect of, I wanted to do a more civil version of Buckley's retort. That explains the book as well as anything else.
ReplyDeleteAs a person who watches and enjoys "Leverage", and stops by this blog once in a while: what does this blog have to do with that show?
ReplyDeleteOne of the creators of Leverage has been known to stop by in the comments from time to time.
"Can we just add that Chris Hitchens is a complete moron as well."
ReplyDeleteSeriously. He makes me ashamed to identify as an atheist at times. Then I realize that pretty much every group's got at least one idiot as a loud and proud member and I get over it.
"Wow. Great way to insult half of Leverage's audience."
ReplyDeleteOh come on - Jonah Goldberg isn't that fat.
If you're a conservative, and you watch Leverage, you're some kind of freaky masochist, who wishes that these wonderful people would come teach you the lesson you deserve, and tell you you deserve it.
ReplyDeleteOr, like most conservatives, you're incapable of understanding what things actually mean.
Sorry:
ReplyDelete"... watching protagonists taking down rich bad guys is neither conservative nor liberal"
Wrong:
Protagonists taking down POOR guys is conservative; protagonists taking down rich bad guys is liberal.
Also from that site that Hogan linked to that slays Goldberg, there's a post on "Leverage as liberal pornography" that's well worth the read.
ReplyDeleteLiberal Fascism, huh?
ReplyDeleteYou are referring, I hope, to this.
Favorite passage:
In Nazi Germany, you couldn’t pull yourself up by your own bootstraps by having your mom know
someone who knew someone who sucked Clinton’s cock, parlay this into various no-work “jobs” funded by the inheritances of even more fortunate princelings, and eventually to a regular gig at a major metropolitan newspaper and a big book deal. (Note: this system is called “the free market”.)
Wow.
ReplyDeleteCalling a book shoddily researched and then go on to admit that you haven't read it is pretty weak.
Being wrong about a thing, or having a different political view does not make one an idiot.
Calling someone an idiot because you disagree with a book you didn't read doesn't do you any credit.
I could understand and even respect a critique, if it went any deeper than "he is an idiot."
One can encounter "leftists" routinely calling conservatives "fascist" without prompting any corrections from the left.
Sure, Goldberg will have errors in his book. Most books have a few.
But the overall claim of the book, that the "left" misuses the term "fascist" is well supported.
Any honest examination of "fascism" will find left leaning economic principles and nationalist tendencies that the modern world would term "right-wing."
Henry Rollins can call Ann Coulter a fascist in a video piece, and not get called an "idiot" for misusing the term. That makes the reason some wish to examine the meaning of the term more clear.
Selective criticism of who gets to "own" the term is what I took the book to really be about.
That conservatives get labeled "trolls" is explanation enough why none would bother to "stick around" your blog.
The enforcement of a liberal orthodoxy in the comment section is decidedly illiberal.
Possibly even fascist!
Or vegetarian, at the least.
Actually, Jonah Goldberg is regarded as an idiot by people who have actually read what he has written.
ReplyDeleteFace it; the man's an overinflated boob. And I don't mean that in a good way.
the overall claim of the book, that the "left" misuses the term "fascist"
ReplyDeleteThat is not the overall claim of the book. Have you read it?
Henry Rollins can call Ann Coulter a fascist in a video piece, and not get called an "idiot" for misusing the term.
ReplyDeleteThat's because it's Henry Rollins, who is not an idiot. He actually knows what the word means because he's bothered to read the books that talk about fascism as a historical and political force. also, he's criticising a woman who wrote a book defending McCarthyism. So, yeah. Maybe pick a better example next time.
That Goldburg is a dumbass and his book utter crap is not liberal bias (other than the well known fact that reality has a liberal bias). His research methods are shoddy at best* and his ability to structure a rational argument approaches logic much like Haley's Comet approaches Earth: at a great distance and very rarely.
* I say this as an academic librarian, who teaches people how to do proper research for a living. Goldburg's book is a textbook case of what not to do.
"Henry Rollins can call Ann Coulter a fascist in a video piece, and not get called an "idiot" for misusing the term."
ReplyDeleteTwo things.
1. How can you criticize a video piece that you haven't even seen? (If it's a Henry Rollins video, it's a good bet that maybe one American in 100,000 has seen it, and if you're one of them, well, I pity you).
2. If you think that Jonah Goldberg and Ann Coulter are exemplars of American conservatism, either American conservatism is barreling of an intellectual cliff, or you are. More likely, both.
"Jonah Goldberg and Ann Coulter are exemplars of American conservatism, either American conservatism is barreling of an intellectual cliff, or you are. More likely, both."
ReplyDeleteBoth? Please make a case for this, if you can. Conservatives publicly represent themselves, as you note, with Jonah Goldberg and Ann Coulter; also Palin, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Malkin, Palin, Beck(!) and the Republican Party. Conservatives who go sane get labeled liberal. See John Cole archives at:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/
Jonah Goldberg writes for conservative thought's premiere political journal, National Review, and Ann Coulter has twice been invited to be the keynote speaker of the most important conservative gathering of the year, the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC, 2005, and 2006); she is a frequent guest on Fox News, and her books are always selections of the conservative book-of-the-month club. So, yeah, they pretty much *are* exemplars of today's American conservatism.
ReplyDeleteI can see how this would make you, as a conservative, uncomfortable, but then I didn't make them exemplars. The movement did.
I wish you would separate out the Leverage posts from your musings. Which of course is just a comment from someone who looks at an entertaining show like Leverage as an escape from the Liberal/Conservative hate wars and does not want to stop by and kill my little mental vacation. Your blog, your views - no break for me.
ReplyDeleteOne more comment. It somehow taints the Leverage experience for me that someone thinks that conservatives somehow enjoy taking down the poor guy. Talk about limiting your education and dialogue. You all should read Jonathan Haidt who is a UVA professor who writes about morality and politics. It is a wonderful insight into ways that we might understand one another better.dis
In my view everyone ought to read it.
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