Wednesday, June 07, 2006

More Fuel for the Man Crush ...

... on Jon Stewart, as he makes Bill Bennett look like a drunken fool on the gay marriage debate. Seriously, that was embarrassing.

My God, watching that, with clearly stated arguments and pinpoint attacks on his opponent's weak positions and logic, as he shreds a man who is twice his age and has spent his life in the pundit business, one has to wonder how Stewart does it even though he's not of those professional politicians with their spin doctors and consultants and carefully prepared position papers.

It's almost as if nothing more than a lifetime of performing comedy had honed his ability to make his point clearly, highlight and ridicule the idiocy of his opponents' argument simultaneously, and do so with a simple emotional resonance so effective his opponent is left helpless to respond.

But that would be NUTS.

Jon Stewart just beat Bill Bennett into wet tissue in a manner none of the professional liberal pundits or politicians who debate him on the chat shows have ever done.

We're out here, candidates. Professional communicators with proven track records. And unlike fucking DLC consultants, we can be bought off with beer and pizza.

102 comments:

corbiscide said...

I have a man crush on Jon Stewart. We used to get the show down here in Australia on SBS. Don't anymore. I think John Howard found out there was inteligent political satire being promoted and had it cut. BTW - love the name Kung Fu Monkey. Just really great. Needs an animated childrens show. Kung Fu Monkey could be voiced by David Caradine.
Just an idea.

Count Doom said...

Fox News interview. The bow tie kid. Ever see it?

H.R.F. said...

I saw this episode yesterday too, and would agree with you except for the part where Stewart asserted the fallacy that homosexuality is purely biological and thus part of the human condition. Bennett did have some valid points worth discussing, but Stewart pulled an O'reilly and kept cutting him off.

Oh and Colbert human-on-manity... priceless!

ManagerMom said...

That may well have been one of Jon's greatest interviews/slam fests to date. I was on the verge of falling asleep and sat straight up in bed when Jon so cleverly turned every argument. It was a beautiful thing.

tommyspoon said...

... the fallacy that homosexuality is purely biological and thus part of the human condition.

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to begin. So I'll just let it stand on its own and leave it at that.

Alex Epstein said...

I don't know how convincing he would be to someone who didn't already agree with him. He was unconvincing against the slippery slope argument, for example. (Perhaps because many human cultures practice polygamy successfully?)

The strongest argument for gay marriage in my book is just "You guys made all these arguments in the '50's. Against marriages between blacks and whites."

And of course -- how the hell does it affect my marriage if gay people get married?

the third coast said...

Alex Epstein said: "He [Stewart] was unconvincing against the slippery slope argument, for example. (Perhaps because many human cultures practice polygamy successfully?"

That depends on what one defines as "successfully." Polygamy is generally a bad deal for the women because in cultures that practice polygamy, woman tend to be regarded as chattel. (Some of these are the same cultures that hold that a woman who has been raped must be killed because her rape is a dishonor to her family. WTF?!) From what I've read Mormonlike sects in this country that practice polygamy also treat women like chattel, because they hold that the man is the head (read dictator) of the family and not not only bosses his wives but also decides what other polygamists his daughters can marry.

Anonymous said...

Homosexuality is biological and anyone who states otherwise is merely mouthing empty mean words without evidence.

Also, anyone who believes that probably doesn't really know any gay folk.

Plus, it's a two edged sword - if a gay person is simply choosing to be gay rather than straight, than it stands to reason that a straight person could choose to be gay.

How about it, Seth, wanna smoke a pole just to prove your point?

Anonymous said...

seeing stewart instigate flop sweat on betamillion bennet and actually make that fat fuck squirm was political heaven. and he did it nicely the biggest genius was when he made his point about cheney and then let it lie there in front of bennet like a rhino on the coffee table.

Anonymous said...

seeing stewart instigate flop sweat on betamillion bennet and actually make that fat fuck squirm was political heaven. and he did it nicely the biggest genius was when he made his point about cheney and then let it lie there in front of bennet like a rhino on the coffee table.

Anonymous said...

please excuse the double post, blogger was making my trigger finger semi-itchy

Norman said...

watched it... sooo funny..ownage

Anonymous said...

jon stewart rules, and colbert is right on his tail. excellent post. in the mood to keep laughing? check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYKN3EFVQIM

Anonymous said...

count said...
Fox News interview. The bow tie kid. Ever see it?


Um, are you, perhaps, referring to the exchange that John Stewart had with Tucker Carlson on CNN's Crossfire?

Now, do I really want to get into the rest of this...

{sigh}

Stewart:I disagree, I think it's a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish.

I disagree, I think it's a debate about Constitutionality (equal rights/equal protection), discrimination (based on sexual orientation), hypocrisy, privacy and semantics. But not the way most people think it is.

Semantics: "gay marriage" is not synonymous with "same sex marriage".

Privacy: one would think that gay people would be especially concerned about letting the government into our bedrooms. But the only way I can see for the government to determine whether or not two people of the same sex are in fact gay is to do just that.

Hypocrisy: see Privacy above and Discrimination below.

Discrimination (based on sexual orientation): to use the example Alex posted above: laws banning interracial marriage were discriminatory because they gave a special privilege--i.e. the ability to marry white people--to members of a certain group--i.e. white people--while denying that same privilege to those who were not members of that certain group--i.e. non-whites couldn't marry white people.

Like Privacy above, one would think that gay people would also be especially concerned about discrimination based on sexual orientation, and yet, that's exactly what "gay marriage" does. To wit: it gives a special privilege--i.e. the ability to marry someone of the same sex--to members of a certain group--i.e. gay people--while denying that same privilege to those who are not members of that certain group--i.e. non-gays cannot marry someone of the same sex.

Constitutionality (equal rights/equal protection): essentially, laws should apply equally to everyone. So, either no one gets to marry someone of the same sex, or everyone gets to marry someone of the same sex regardless of their sexual orientation.

Now, we can certainly debate whether we're for or against "same sex marriage"--and I, personally, don't give a rip either way (although I do have a bit of a man crush on our host)--but "gay marriage", at best, is a misnomer, and at worst, it's political spin, a bait-and-switch, hypocritical, discriminatory and unconstitutional.

Mark

DJ said...

I can’t agree more. But, I do not have a “Man Crush” on John Stewart. However, I am knitting Mr. Stewart a sweater. A non-man-crush sweater. And as soon as he response to my constant phone calls we will have lunch. Screw his lawyers and their negativity.

Anonymous said...

First off, I've personally moved on from Stewart and have turned my man-crush attentions to Stephen Colbert. My mother is very upset, but I've been trying to assure her that we'll still raise the children Jewish, even though Stephen's devoutly Catholic. Such is love...

Speaking of which, while the current scientific evidence leans toward homosexuality as being innate, that's no guarantee that that's what scientific evidence will indicate in the future, which is why I think it's wrong to hinge the argument on that fact.

There's no reason that we should implicitly cede the idea that, if homosexuality isn't innate, then we can discourage it. If I were to say it succinctly, I'd say: "I don't think our government should decide who you can and cannot love".

Religion is a choice as well, and bias based on religion is outlawed (not that it's stopped Bush's Faith-Based initiative from only giving to Christian groups, but you get the idea). The phrasing that Stewart used, however, was a way of wiping away the genetic/non-genetic distinction, since religion is also a part of the "human condition", even though one is not genetically predisposed to be any particular religion.

coltrane said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mary said...

Some people are born at either extreme of the Kinsey scale: they can't and won't voluntarily change their sexual behaviour under any circumstances. A fair number of people are near the extremes, but can adapt to gay or het sex in some circumstances (e.g. prison). And then there are the people born near the middle of the scale who may choose purely het, purely gay, or both kinds of behaviour depending on their environment, culture and life experiences.

So, yes, it's possible that some people "choose" to be gay or bi, but it's not because some people are gay via experience and others are gay via biology. Some people are just born in between and can switch-hit as they see fit. Most of us are more closely clustered to the poles.

ElGrande said...

What the hell are you people talking about?

You all missed the point talking about the nuances of gay marriage or Stewart's Spears of Longinus into the flabby hide of Bennet.

Are you trying to tell me I can have the Kung Fu Monkey, Stewart and god knows how many others are out there working for me for BEER and PIZZA?

I have BEER and PIZZA!

Call me. Soon I will set myself above the gods themselves!

Anonymous said...

Let's not get carried away here, Roberts. Stewart eviscerated Bennett in part because Bennett's got nothing to say and Stewart trampled on half the words out of his mouth. The best bit of Stewart's harangue was (I don't remember how this was phrased) his assertion that marriage is a positive good and therefore will benefit society when extended to gay couples.

But that viewpoint is already beautifully articulated by any number of critics, not least the sometimes despicable Andrew Sullivan, whose book on the subject, Virtually Normal, is quite good. Stewart is effective at least in part because he only has to trade sound-bites, and his entire career has been made out of sound-bites. But notwithstanding your well-deserved anti-DLC-type animus, Stewart's proven on many occasions to have considerably less unique or piercing insight into the human condition than any number of pundits. Just because as a 'newscaster' he keeps hugely idiotic company doesn't mean we should enshrine him in any politico-critical halls of fame.

I say this as an unabashed, devout fan of Stewart's; I think he's easily one of the best things on TV. But as his performances with McCain and (particularly, risibly) Kerry in 2004 demonstrated, he's a very hit-or-miss interviewer, and too often softpedals pretty much until he has no choice (and Bennett gives you no choice, since he's a bulbous miscreant).

Colbert's interviews are sometimes great, sometimes terrible; like Ringo Starr, both he and Stewart seem to pull up just at the last minute, backing off the killing stroke. Stewart's Crossfire smackdown is evidence of this - at the time I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen, now I can't watch it without thinking about how unreflective that whole experience seems. Stewart was a hero for doing what he did - really - but he's one of those guys who's obviously right about many of the things he says, but gives weak forms of the arguments for his positions. As with his 'Stop hurting America' spiel, in front of a different audience he'd have found the going considerably harder. (Further evidence of Colbert's sheer fucking chutzpah at the White House Correspondents Dinner.)

Anonymous said...

randbot,

You're making my point for me: straight people don't have to prove that they're straight because it's not called "straight marriage". If it were, then gay people would not be allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex, and if you are gong to disallow something, it follows that there needs to be some kind of objective test. But, as you noted, this is not the case--gay people can marry someone of the opposite sex--thus, no test is necessary because the law does not discriminate based on sexual orientation.

While we simply call it "marriage", if we were to insert a modifier, the appropriate choice would not be "straight", but "opposite sex". i.e. "opposite sex marriage", meaning anyone can marry anyone else of the opposite sex, regardless of the sexual orientation of either party.

Just as there is a distinction between "straight marriage" and "opposite sex marriage", there is also a distinction between "gay marriage" and "same sex marriage".

As for "commonly-used definitions": I'd be willing to bet that, if you asked a bunch of people on the street to define "gay marriage", the majority would say, "It means that gay people can get married." I seriously doubt that the majority would say, "It means that any two people (of the same sex) can get married."

Mark

Systemaddict said...

"Divorce is not cause because 50% of marriages end in gayness"...

Hehe...yeah...

Like him, love him, or hate him...He steps up to the plate each time.

Loudlush said...

I don't think that John Howard would know what SBS was if it jumped up and whacked him on the arse with a wire coathanger. Of course I have no other theory as to why Jon Stewart was removed from Oz viewing. All man-crushes aside (c'mon guys, get a grip), we do need him back on teev in the antipodes. And soon.

Amandarama said...

That interview was some damn fine television. Damn fine. I *heart* Jon Stewart!

Anonymous said...

Marriage is basically a legal agreement between two people, which is why one needs a license - by denying a segment of the population the right to that license because of how they are born or their sex is discrimination, pure and simple.

Can you imagine it if we said only white people could be married?

I'm married to a woman of another race. The marriage I have now used to be illegal in a few of the southern states, who feared an intermingling of the races.

This wasn't that long ago - it was in my lifetime, as a matter of fact.

If you look back and read the arguments against interracial marriages back in those days, the arguments used against interracial marriages are the SAME ones used today against same sex marriages.

Those arguments are bigoted and ignornant, pure and simple. It was wrong to say people of different races couldn't marry and it's wrong to say that people of the same sex couldn't marry.

Wrong. America was founded on the idea that we are all created equal and have equal opportunity. It was an idea resisted at that time (particularly by the southern states) and had to be fought for, again and again, for women, for people of color and now for those whose sexual identity is known as gay.

The idea of America is right. Those who oppose equality and gay marriage are basically ignorant bigots, not so different from those against civil rights back in the sixties.

You heard me. You oppose gay marriage, that makes you a bigot. You don't want it to be true because of what it means about yourself, but that's what it is. Back in the day, the white men in power thought they knew best for the colored folk back in the sixties, too. They didn't view themselves as bigoted, either. They were wrong, too.

demondoll said...

I just want to say I have beer and pizza.

Sully said...

I heard this funny thing on CBC Radio a month ago.

This female caller commented that she thought it was ludicrous that we rename Same-Sex Marriage a "civil union" so that it doesn't offend the heterosexist supremist society.

She said that that would be like re-naming women's right to vote "a say in the matter". It would mean the same thing, do the same thing, and women could still elect representatives to government, but Women wouldn't have the right to vote. Women would have "a say in the matter."

Anonymous said...

Maestro: congratulations on inventing a problem that is not -- full stop -- there.

I hate to bring objective reality into this discussion, but we live in a world where certain states inside this country, and several countries outside it, officially permit and endorse same-gender marriages. So, you know, there are actual laws to look at here, rather than the weird phantasms that live in your head. And among those actual laws (Massachusetts for full-on "marriage" in the US, and a handful of states with "domestic partnership" laws that basically equate to the same thing; Canada, Denmark and the Netherlands in the outlands), the number of them that contain some provision for verifying the gayness of the participants is zero. None. Zip. Nada. If two heterosexual men in Massachusetts want to get married for tax reasons, nothing stops them at all.

This constitutional "problem" exists in your head, and nowhere else. Please do not expect reasonable people to take you seriously when you "point it out."

Anonymous said...

Wow, a straw man and ad hominem in one post. Sorry, I can't let that go by.

I never said that there weren't same sex marriage laws on the books. Nor did I say that same sex marriage laws were, are or would be unconstitutional. Those "weird phantasms" exist only in your head and nowhere else.

The thing I'm railing against is the commutation of the terms "gay marriage" and "same sex marriage", and your post is a perfect example of why. Specifically, even randbot acknowledged that there is a technical difference between the terms "gay marriage" and "same sex marriage", so indiscriminately interchanging them (unnecessarily) confounds the issue, as it apparently did for you.

Why, then, would anyone want to do this? Well, as randbot also noted, "gay marriage" is a catchier phrase. But reliance on catch phrases is sometimes an indication of the weakness of an argument.

Also, a slanted catch phrase can allow an intellectually dishonest expositor to paint the opposition in a negative light. e.g. by calling it The Patriot Act, even though it has nothing to do with patriotism, the Bush administration can label opponents as "unpatriotic". Heck, even the so called Defense of Marriage Act implies that marriage is under attack (by evil doers), but we're the righteous defenders coming to the rescue.

So it saddens me to see supporters of same sex marriage lower themselves and the level of discourse, particularly because I don't think they need to; I think they could win the argument on the merits, so any obfuscation hurts them more than it helps.

Plus, it vexes me when a writer whose level of craft and acumen I admire falls victim to it.

Mark

Anonymous said...

Maestro,

You keep using twenty-five cent words when nickel words will do - and honestly, it's hard to really get a sense of who, what, where your argument is or your position, though I feel mine is pretty damn clear.

Marriage is a contract between two people and only between two people. To not allow citizens the right to that contract because of their race, sex or anything like that is bigotry, pure and simple.

Are you arguing against gay folk having the same rights as other folk, or for it?

In the idea of America, we are all equal in terms of the rights afforded to all. If certain citizens are not allowed those rights because of sex or race, then we are not fulfilling our American ideal. We're letting it down.

Anonymous said...

Joshua:

We agree on the 'American ideal of equality', as you put it. And so, in answer to your question, I am for everyone--gay, straight, bi, trans, black, white, yellow, red, brown, male, female, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, druid, atheist, etc.--having the same Rights as everyone else. That's why I don't have a problem with the way things are now under "opposite sex marriage"--where anyone can marry anyone else of the opposite sex regardless of which or how many of the previously listed categories they belong to--nor do I have a problem with the way things are (or would be) under "same sex marriage"--where, similarly, anyone can (or would be) able to marry anyone else of the same sex regardless of which or how many of the previously listed categories they belong to.

If you're interested in where I think the problem is, feel free to read the third and especially fourth paragraph(s) below.

ChrisO:

Sorry, I'm not following your line of reasoning. First, note that the "commonly-used definitions" thing was a response to something RandBot posted. I did not base my argument on it.

Second, you undercut your own argument: the only way that the following statement (which you attribute to me) can be false, "You state as a matter of fact that same sex marriage is commonly referred to as "gay marriage." and the following statement of yours can be true, "I hear the term "same sex marriage" as much as "gay marriage". is for the members of the population who are using the term "gay marriage" to be using it to mean something other than "same sex marriage". And I don't think that's a road you want to go down because it would mean that the people using the term "gay marriage" do want the "gay" part enshrined in law. (Please note: I'm not saying this is actually the case in reality, I'm just following a line of reasoning--that is not my own--to its logical conclusion.)

Even though "whites only" laws (e.g. white marriage, if you will) were discriminatory, blacks didn't respond with "blacks only" laws that would've been equally discriminatory. (i.e. they didn't try to pass a "black marriage" law where only blacks could marry blacks.) Instead, they fought for, and I think it's worth noting, actually won, the Right for anyone to marry anyone else (granted, of the opposite sex) regardless of race.

The lesson, then, that I think the Gay Rights movement should take from the Civil Rights movement is to not push the term "gay marriage" (which can be misconstrued to mean that only gays would be allowed to marry other gays), but instead to push the term "same sex marriage" (which much more clearly reflects the intent of allowing anyone to marry anyone else of the same sex regardless of the sexual orientation of either party).

RandBot:

I'm glad someone is getting something out of all of this bandwidth of Rogers' we're wasting. (And Rogers, dude, feel free to tell me to shut the hell up anytime.) That said...

You're ATM Machine analogy is flawed because the two terms mean the same thing. Imagine, instead, that someone asked you for a ride to the bank, and you obliged, passing several ATMs along the way, only to find out that what they really meant was that they needed to go to an ATM Machine. Wouldn't you be a little annoyed? Because, although banks and ATMs have some things in common, they are not the same. The two terms are not synonymous. And you would assume that when someone says bank, they actually mean bank and not ATM Machine.

But let's say it still doesn't matter to you or anyone else except me. Bank, ATM, whatever, we'll figure it out eventually. Given that we're agreed that there is a technical difference, and I've expressed my preference, eventhough it truly doesn't matter to you at all, what would it say about you if you went ahead and ignored my wishes for no good reason?

Mark

Anonymous said...

Semantics, semantics, everywhere. And not a line to read.

Peggy Archer said...

I knew there was a reason I loved Jon Stewart.

I just didn't realize how very, very much I love him.

Anonymous said...

If I ever hear a fellow conservative say "hey, I support gay marraige - between a gay man and a lesbian woman!" I'll know that all of these posts weren't a waste of time. Or realize that he or she is just making an odd joke.

Until then...

Ms. Laaw-yuhr said...

This discussion totally makes me want to have a three way with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert.

Anonymous said...

I really love Jon Stewart. Thank you for the story. It made me laugh :D It would be better, if you added some pictures here.

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Penyakit kencing nanah bisa disebabkan oleh beberapa faktor seperti seks bebas, penularan, virus hpv, lingkungan, gaya hidup dan lainnya, Maka dari itu kita harus waspada dengan penyakit kencing nanah ini, karena penyakit kencing nanah sangatlah berbahaya, Namun untuk anda yang menderita penyakit kencing nanah, maka anda tidak perlu khawatir,

Unknown said...

Berhati-hatilah anda yang suka berganti-ganti pasangan seks, karena sangat besar sekali kemungkinannya untuk terkena penyakit kencing nanah atau gonore maupun yang lainnya.



Unknown said...

Berapa Harga untuk Obat Wasir Ambeien alami daun ungu AmbeclearAmbeien adalah gangguan atau penyakit yang terjadi pada saluran pencernaan manusia

Unknown said...

Berapa Harga untuk Obat Wasir Ambeien alami daun ungu AmbeclearAmbeien adalah gangguan atau penyakit yang terjadi pada saluran pencernaan manusia

Unknown said...

Bukan hanya pengobatan medis saja tapi ada juga pengobatan rumah alami yang dapat digunakan untuk menyingkirkan penyakit kutil kelamin ini. Intinya, karena kutil ini muncul di daerah yang sensitif, maka anda harus mencari pengobatan yang terbaik pada kulit Anda dan jika diperlukan juga dibantu dengan tenaga medis yang professional. Sebab dokter akan menjadi sumber informasi yang baik untuk mengobati penyakit ini.

Unknown said...

Bukan hanya pengobatan medis saja tapi ada juga pengobatan rumah alami yang dapat digunakan untuk menyingkirkan penyakit kutil kelamin ini. Intinya, karena kutil ini muncul di daerah yang sensitif, maka anda harus mencari pengobatan yang terbaik pada kulit Anda dan jika diperlukan juga dibantu dengan tenaga medis yang professional. Sebab dokter akan menjadi sumber informasi yang baik untuk mengobati penyakit ini.

Cara Mengobati Wasir Ambeien said...

MANTAB * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Unknown said...

Cara yang sering di lakukan untuk menghilangkan kutil kelamin adalah dengan cara pembedahah atau operasi, cara ini tentu memerlukan dana yang tidak sedikit. metode Pilihan pembedahan yang dapat Anda lakukan

Unknown said...

Kenali penyebab penyakit kencing bernanah sehingga cara mengobati
penyakit kencing nanah dan infeksi saluran kencing nanah dapat dilakukan
dengan benar.

Unknown said...

Kenali penyebab penyakit kencing bernanah sehingga cara mengobati
penyakit kencing nanah dan infeksi saluran kencing nanah dapat dilakukan
dengan benar.

Pengobatan Ambeien Wasir said...

wkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwkwk

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillaahirrohmaanirrokhiim ???????????????????????????????????

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillaahirrohmaanirrokhiim ???????????????????????????????????

Unknown said...

Kadang disertai
dengan sakit saat kencing, perih, organ intim terasa panas menyiksa,
gatal,..

Unknown said...

Kadang disertai
dengan sakit saat kencing, perih, organ intim terasa panas menyiksa,
gatal,..

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillahhirrohmaanirrokhim.... *********************************

Unknown said...

Sekitar Vagina Tumbuh Daging, Berbahayakah? Kutil Pada Kepala Penis mirip bunga kol atau jengger ayam, Merupakan Penyakit Yang diakibatkan Oleh Virus.Kutil kelamin, atau disebut juga condyloma acuminata, adalah kutil atau daging berwarna kulit atau keabuan yang tumbuh di sekitar alat kelamin dan

Unknown said...

Sekitar Vagina Tumbuh Daging, Berbahayakah? Kutil Pada Kepala Penis mirip bunga kol atau jengger ayam, Merupakan Penyakit Yang diakibatkan Oleh Virus.Kutil kelamin, atau disebut juga condyloma acuminata, adalah kutil atau daging berwarna kulit atau keabuan yang tumbuh di sekitar alat kelamin dan

obar herbal manjur alami said...

Bismillahirrohmannirrokhim ........................

Unknown said...

penyakit yang ditularkan melalui hubungan seks : vaginal, oral dan anal. Juga dapat menular melalui persentuhan kulit dengan daerah yang terinfeksi.

Unknown said...

penyakit yang ditularkan melalui hubungan seks : vaginal, oral dan anal. Juga dapat menular melalui persentuhan kulit dengan daerah yang terinfeksi.

Unknown said...

Ambeien bisa mengeluarkan darah(seperti invander salim yang terkena ambeien dan mengeluarkan darah)

Unknown said...

Ambeien bisa mengeluarkan darah(seperti invander salim yang terkena ambeien dan mengeluarkan darah)

Unknown said...

Sebelum kita membahas tentang pengobatan ambeien, dalam kesempatan ini
saya ingin menjelaskan sekilas tentang ambeien, agar kita semua bisa
memahami benar apa itu penyakit ambeien

Unknown said...

Sebelum kita membahas tentang pengobatan ambeien, dalam kesempatan ini
saya ingin menjelaskan sekilas tentang ambeien, agar kita semua bisa
memahami benar apa itu penyakit ambeien

Unknown said...

obat wasir, Adalah  Obat alami berkhasiat dalam bentuk kapsul yang berasal dari tanaman herbal seperti daun ungu, mahkota dewa dan kunyit putih, diberikan pada penderita jika penyakit masih dalam tingkatan stadium ringan

Unknown said...

obat wasir, Adalah  Obat alami berkhasiat dalam bentuk kapsul yang berasal dari tanaman herbal seperti daun ungu, mahkota dewa dan kunyit putih, diberikan pada penderita jika penyakit masih dalam tingkatan stadium ringan

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillahhirrohmaanirrokhim.... ***************************

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillahirrohmannirrokhim .........................

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillahirrohmannirrokhim ......................................

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

Bismillahhirrohmaanirrokhim.... ************************************

obar herbal manjur alami said...

???????????????????????????????????????

Unknown said...

???????????????????????????????

Unknown said...

MANTAB???????????????????????????????

obar herbal manjur alami said...

1111111111111111111111111

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

111111111111111111111

obar herbal manjur alami said...

111111111111111111111111111111

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

111111111111111111111

Obat Keputihan Herbal Alami said...

1111111111111111111111111111111111111111

obar herbal manjur alami said...

111111111111111

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

1111111111111111111111111111111

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Unknown said...

manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur

Unknown said...

manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur manjur

obar herbal manjur alami said...

alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami

obar herbal manjur alami said...

alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami alami

Anonymous said...

Wasir atau dikenal juga dengan ambeien merupakan salah satu jenis penyakit

Anonymous said...

Wasir atau dikenal juga dengan ambeien merupakan salah satu jenis penyakit

Anonymous said...

yang sangat mengganggu. Ambeien atau wasir ini muncul..

Anonymous said...

yang sangat mengganggu. Ambeien atau wasir ini muncul..

Anonymous said...

yang sangat mengganggu. Ambeien atau wasir ini muncul..

Anonymous said...

yang sangat mengganggu. Ambeien atau wasir ini muncul..

kLINIK oBAT mANJUR said...

obat ambeien wasir paling manjur mengobati penyakit wasir ambeien tanpa efek samping terbuat dari bahan alami herbal seperti daun ungu mahkota dewa kunyit putih

Unknown said...

obat sipilis raja singa obat sipilis raja singa manjur obat sipilis raja singa herbal obat sipilis raja singa alami obat sipilis raja singa mujarab obat sipilis raja singa herbal manjur

Unknown said...

obat sipilis raja singa obat sipilis raja singa manjur obat sipilis raja singa herbal obat sipilis raja singa alami obat sipilis raja singa mujarab obat sipilis raja singa herbal manjur

Unknown said...

alat kelamin keluar nanah herbal denature nanah keluar dari kemaluan cara mengobati penyakit kencing nanah obat penyakit raja singa untuk pria keluar cairan nanah dari kemaluan mengapa alat kelamin mengeluarkan nanah gejala penyakit gonore pada pria nanah keluar dari kemaluan obat gonore kencing nanah ujung penis keluar cairan nanah kelamin keluar nanah penyebab kemaluan keluar nanah kencing perih dan keluar cairan nanah obat gonore obat penyakit gonore alami kemaluan keluar nanah obat gonore obat kencing nanah kencing sakit dan keluar nanah obat gonore atau kencing nanah alat kelamin pria keluar nanah obat penyakit gonore cairan nanah keluar dari alat kelamin obat gonore obat herbal kencing nanah obat kencing nanah di apotik apa penyebab penyakit herpes itu obat kencing nanah obat gonore kenapa kelamin keluar nanah"