I'm on an airplane heading back to LAX from PDX. I'll catch up on the write-ups while you post the usual questions and feedback down there, in the Comments.
Well done on the conclusion of another season, with more to come. The gifted bottle was well-deserved! I have a bottle of 12 year old I brought home from Ireland pre liquids ban.
This one looks intriguing -- can you bring the bad guy down without making all the miners unemployed?
Just a comment on the preview: Thanks for drawing attention to the recent (and unbelievable) Supreme Court decision which codified the selling of our government to the highest corporate bidder.
Love this season so far. Have mananged to hook two more friends into watching it. For two episodes now Parker has mocked Eliot's pain such as being hit by a car and by a tire iron. If this was a novel, I would think this is foreshadowing some event where Parker regrets or is made to regret mocking him. Either he turns on her or really gets hurt. Close? or waaay out in left field?
On line I found out this about the remaining episodes: Underground Job (tonight) - 310; Rashomon Job - 311; King George Job - 312; Morning After Job - 313; Ho, Ho, Ho Job - 314; Big Bang Job – 315; & San Lorenzo Job 316
According to Dean Devlin’s tweet August 14th, there are: “FOUR more #Leverage episodes to air this summer. Three in winter”.
Uh, guys? The Palin parody? Completely lame. Now, give us a parody of a First Lady who spends like a drunken sailor in the middle of a recession . . . then you'd REALLY have something funny.
As a new fan, I usually like your show, but it might behoove you to remember that your audience isn't 100 percent liberal. Just every once in a while, you know. As a novelty. :-)
A "Palin parody"?? I don't think this was aimed at Palin any more than "Three Days of the Hunter" was aimed at any certain news commentator.....you know - painting with broad stokes...
Uh-huh. The hair, the red jacket, the carefully reworked reference to the old "lipstick on a pig" jibe . . . that's not accidental. I've been studying the interaction of politics and culture far too long not to know what I'm seeing.
The powers-that-be on the show have a perfect right to their political opinions. But I would think that it would be best to keep things on an "any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental" basis. Why go out of your way to offend part of your audience if you're not actually making an explicitly political show?
Have to say, the ep was great, but I wasn't crazy about most of it being everyone on their own. I did love the Parker/Sophie scenes - love them together! But I will say, next weeks looks f***ing awesome! Looks very much like "Clue", the butler explaining it all. Great job as always - Best show ever!!!
Found a continuity glitch tho, in the very last scene when Eliot follows Nate out of the trailer, and then on the other side Nate follows Eliot.--So, am I hired as the goof checker? haha.
So here are my questions: The mine was supposedly filled with methane, or pockets of. Why didn't the entire mine blow when the first explosion went off?-and-Why didn't Eliot seem to notice it when it DID blow?
@Gina - There are a lot of "close resemblances" to big time politicians, CEOs, journalists, etc. - that's kind of the point - they even say in the commentaries that most of the stories are based on actual news events and the characters are 'inspired' by real people. To watch and enjoy a TV show, you should remember this - peoples political views and general opinions are going to vary - we don't have to agree with what they are saying/thinking/doing to be entertained, and if you are offended, just change the channel. The characters on this show aren't written to be impartial, they are meant to be like real people, and yes, they mostly seem to fall towards the left and are going to represent that in their words and actions, that's what makes them interesting. The writers shouldn't have to change that dimension of these people because it offends you. Lighten up - it's a fictional television show.
Gina, I have no idea if that was a "Palin parody" or not. My question is, why are you so upset about it? If it were a parody,that's the price you pay for being a public figure. You take some hits. Like your First Lady comment, I'm sure there are posters on here who disagree with it,but they're not gonna let it upset them. It's not that serious.
Indeed. You could also say she resembled Hillary Clinton, Mary Landrieu, John Edwards or any other politician with an accent. I mean, it's not like Palin is widely known for inventing homespun sayings regarding pigs, is it?
An observation: Of the entire team, I think Elliot is the most empathetic. Sophie's too much of a princess to really connect with the every-man, Parker & Hardison both had untraditional upbringings so they don't so much either. And Nate's just a bastard - yeah, he understands the true evils they're facing, but he doesn't really *feel* for the clients as much. But Elliot has the all-American, good ol' boy vibe. He always seems to be the one to feel for the people they're helping, despite being a pretty cold-blooded dude. He's such a great character, and ya'll have done an incredible job developing him into more than just a meathead. We're starting to see some of this same development in Parker, with a bit of a shift towards empathy, but not so much in Sophie or Hardison - I anticipate some interesting turns when we go down their roads!
@Gina, I think we can agree that the writing team does a good job of villainizing the whole spectrum of the social hierarchy, no? Hence, everyone gets their turn, even the Conservatives.
@J.J., Being a thief, silence is a virtue... Parker's probably not a screamer OR a moaner. ;-)
My mom and I were just wondering if there were any interviews done with the families of victims of mining accidents when this episode was being written.
And is there any chance that Cory might come back?
@Gina, it wasn't a parody of palin in any sense of the term. They weren't making fun of Sarah Palin's Jerry Springer-esque family, nor her tenuous grasp of the english language. If it had been a Palin parody, Peirce would've quit half way through the episode to milk money from cargo cultist teabaggers.
The character was probably inspired by Palin's well documented embezzlement. If that offends you, perhaps you shouldn't throw your support behind pundits who fleeced their home state for personal gain while acting as public servants.
Oh and @workworkwork, coltan is not a reference to anything. It's very real, and very necessary for all kinds of small electronics. There's conflict coltan in every one of your forced-obsolescent iphones, and it's mined by children at gunpoint in the Libertarian paradise of the Congo.
And to nip this in the bud right now, it's not Palin. The AG's based on a certain type of professional political woman of the South, and it's just that that accent has weird resonance with that Alaskan accent. The uptight hyper-competent law-and-order persona doesn't even fit Palin's public persona or governing style.
You guys - you do some of the best slimey super villainy villains. Bruce Davison and the woman (whose name I don't know) were good bad guys. Davison's little speech in the mine was excellent.
Also, loved Parker's list - HYSTERICAL. Her scenes with Sophie were very good all the way around.
But, is it just me or did we lose some footage there at the end? The promo shots from TNT seemed to show Nate talking with Hardison right after he got out of the mine, and also Nate talking with Sophie at the end. If so, what did we miss?
I'm hoping for some more development of the Nate-Hardison dynamic and Nate-Sophie dynamic. Will we get some more of those this season?
Also, I feel like I can see everyone's character arc in place except Sophie's. She's been more forceful and less of a victim with Nate, but that hasn't been emphasized as much as Parker's and Hardison's maturation, Nate's hardening and Eliot's thawing.
I'm assuming we'll have a better idea of her character arc after 312but that seems so late in the season. Is there a particular reason that the Sophie-centric episode is happening that close to the end? (Other than "we may show her real name and didn't want to do it early on.")
Jenn-Ann - I'm not sure I'd say Nate doesn't feel for the victims. He was the one who forced the team to help others in the first place, and especially in Seasons 1 and 2, you see many moments of him connecting to either the client or other victims of the mark. I think empathy was one of his biggest motivators, along with vengeance.
That said, Nate's reasons for doing what he's doing do seem to be getting a bit more complicated, and they are doing a nice job with Eliot going the other direction. I was frankly a little put off by Eliot in the first 2-3 episodes, because he seemed the least developed and most caricature-ish, but they've definitely taken some time to show some layers, which is nice.
Another great episode! Just started watching Leverage over the past month or so and it's become one of my favorite shows. From the writing, acting, dvd commentaries, blog, tweets and pics everything's outstanding. You guys make it fun to be a fan. Looking forward to the last few episodes.
Thanks for all of the time, energy and passion you invest in giving us such a great show. Hope you treat yourself to a well deserved vacation.
Hmm, would I be correct in my suspicion that Eliot has more than a passing familiarity with mines? And that his empathy for Cory came from experience? It really seemed to hit a nerve with him when Cory talked about having to be the man of the house, and then mentioned his mother and sister.
And yay for the return of "Bob Gibson." I do love to see familiar identities recycled. ;-)
Loved Parker's "I'm a grifter. I grift," and Sophie's faintly horrified expression. *g* Actually, I love the whole pupil/mentor vibe between S&P in this ep (and this season, really). They're giving us some wonderful character moments. Where the guys still look at Parker as if she's crazy (which … okay *g*), Sophie really seems to take her where she's at and just go with it. Sophie might be a princess, but she's a princess with a heart. ;-)
Also, Aldis and Kane continue to make me snicker. Loved Eliot's impatience with the technobabble, Hardison's mournful, "I thought we were making progress," and the callback to the "high five for morale." Not to mention Eliot's "BOOM!" Oh, boys!
As for Nate, I've seen a few references on Twitter to his being a bastard, but I didn't really see that tonight. He actually seemed quite human. *g* And he seriously needs to wear a bowtie more often. ;-)
And, finally (for now *g*) … lemme get this straight. Showing a crooked female politician is automatically taken as being a jab at Palin? Wow, my radar must be off. I mean, I'm as willing as the next commie/fascist/hippie to mock Caribou Barbie, and I didn't make that connection. I just took it as another swipe at corrupt pols in general … whom this week we'll put in a skirt.
Then again, I'm from Texas, so venal politicians in need of mockery are just part of the scenery to me.
Oh, btw, does Parker keep a notebook on the crew? ;-)
Did a Nate/Sophie scene towards the end got cut? I saw a production still that made me believe we'd get a nice N/S scene at the end when Nate got out of the mine. Why are you deleting Nate/Sophie scenes lately? The same happened in The Three Card Monte Job. There are hardly any Nate/Sophie scenes as it is this season. You're making this fan very unhappy. Whhhhyyyyy?
he AG's based on a certain type of professional political woman of the South, and it's just that that accent has weird resonance with that Alaskan accent.
If Palin's taking any role models from anywhere, isn't that where she'd be taking some cues anyway? That is, any advisors she'd be getting that have experience would be drawn from Southern Republicans, i think. So any resemblance would be drawn from common sources.
Great ep as usual Rogers. Damn, I am loving this season.
Gina?? WTF??? The Atty General reminded you of Palin? A strong, intelligent, greedy,educated, promiscuous southern female politician reminded you of Mrs QuitterWordSalad? HUH?
Seriously, the mine owner was a complete "ripped from the headlines" view of Massey Energy and Don Blankenship. The Attorney General was also in the news. Blankenship bought a judicial election in W.Va. and spent a bucket-load to get that judge, who promptly ruled FOR Massey Energy in some case. And the supreme court said that was OK (conflict of interest and all). And then just this year SCOtUS ruled on Citizen's United that any amount of money from any source, even a secret one, was ok if it went to an election.So what Leverage showed tonight was the cleanest, nicest version of reality, not the real, true, ugly, horrendous and offensive version that actually exists. Remember Rogers wants us all on the fun train. Let's call it the 'Manifest Destiny' of our times.
How the hell you get Palin out of any of that I do not know. Did she say "also, too."? No. Are most American women brunette? Is every brunette with long hair and bangs Sarah Palin?? Fuck no! Or, I'm Sarah Palin, and I can assure you I am not. Did she wear glasses? Did she sound like a confused idiot when speaking? Was she competent at her job? Seriously, your offended fee-fees say much, much more about you than they do about the politics of any of the writers in John Rogers staff room. GTFOYS. Your paranoia and angst is just too cute for words.
Rogers, seriously, my only problem with the fun train this season? Memphis is rock and blues and R&B, gospel and yes some country(hello Johnny Cash)and rockabilly. We're also the "Dirty South" in re rap and hiphop and stuff. But country music is the least of my citys claim to fame. Hell we even have some great reggae, look to Utube for Toots Mayall when he was here. And it irks the hell out of me that you guys did the one fanfic episode I was imagining in my city, but did it before I wrote it and did it in the wrong music genre. C'est la vie. And I do realize you basically had to write it to boost your TNT sistah show "Memphis Beat" and they also (unknowingly) did a country music ep. It's just irksome. I had so seen Christian singing the blues. (sigh) Because if anyone knows the blues, it's a damned Okie.
Great ep as usual Rogers. Damn, I am loving this season.
Gina?? WTF??? The Atty General reminded you of Palin? A strong, intelligent, greedy,educated, promiscuous southern female politician reminded you of Mrs QuitterWordSalad? HUH?
Seriously, the mine owner was a complete "ripped from the headlines" view of Massey Energy and Don Blankenship. The Attorney General was also in the news. Blankenship bought a judicial election in W.Va. and spent a bucket-load to get that judge, who promptly ruled FOR Massey Energy in some case. And the supreme court said that was OK (conflict of interest and all). And then just this year SCOtUS ruled on Citizen's United that any amount of money from any source, even a secret one, was ok if it went to an election.So what Leverage showed tonight was the cleanest, nicest version of reality, not the real, true, ugly, horrendous and offensive version that actually exists. Remember Rogers wants us all on the fun train. Let's call it the 'Manifest Destiny' of our times.
How the hell you get Palin out of any of that I do not know. Did she say "also, too."? No. Are most American women brunette? Is every brunette with long hair and bangs Sarah Palin?? Fuck no! Or, I'm Sarah Palin, and I can assure you I am not. Did she wear glasses? Did she sound like a confused idiot when speaking? Was she competent at her job? Seriously, your offended fee-fees say much, much more about you than they do about the politics of any of the writers in John Rogers staff room. GTFOYS. Your paranoia and angst is just too cute for words.
Rogers, seriously, my only problem with the fun train this season? Memphis is rock and blues and R&B, gospel and yes some country(hello Johnny Cash)and rockabilly. We're also the "Dirty South" in re rap and hiphop and stuff. But country music is the least of my citys claim to fame. Hell we even have some great reggae, look to Utube for Toots Mayall when he was here. And it irks the hell out of me that you guys did the one fanfic episode I was imagining in my city, but did it before I wrote it and did it in the wrong music genre. C'est la vie. And I do realize you basically had to write it to boost your TNT sistah show "Memphis Beat" and they also (unknowingly) did a country music ep. It's just irksome. I had so seen Christian singing the blues. (sigh) Because if anyone knows the blues, it's a damned Okie.
I have to say Your Blog is my second favorite thing about Sunday nights!
As for the episode - nicely done.
Pick-axes at 10 paces - awesome. Nate in the unexpected explosion - NO! Blackwell knocking Nate out cold - Oh No! Parker and the blue & black pens - she separates the food items on her dinner plate, too, doesn't she?
The BEST part was that you CONNED us. Hardison rigged the explosion - I did NOT guess that! I love that you did that - totally believable that he could and would do that, but just completely unexpected.
My only problem with the ep is Nate yelling at Parker: not that he yells to get her moving, but that he yells right outside Blackwell's office door - even if the mine compound is noisy (which is clearly why Nate had to raise his voice), he was still so close to Blackwell's trailer office that Blackwell should have heard him. Tiny point, in an otherwise Top 10 episode!
Oh, and congrats on a good wrap and I'm so glad to hear we're getting another season!
@ Roy: "Why did you guys choose yet another "what these country bumpkins need are some city folk" setup?"
Having lived for almost a decade in a small coal mining town, I have to disagree with this assertion. Coal jobs are some of the highest paying jobs in many towns where it is prevalent and the coal companies definitely use tactics to scare workers from causing waves. This ep's client knew that no safety improvements were made. Who is he going to go to in a small town? Let's say he found someone willing to stick their neck out for him - he'd still lose his job and the livelihood for his family. And with a situation involving a mine, generally, there is a fear that those jobs will disappear if the town is perceived as 'too much trouble.' I think you may be referring to "The Tap Out Job". Again, that was a family that had no one to turn to in a small town. Personally, I found the need to go to an "outsider" completely plausible in both situations. Our crew just happen to be stationed in a city. I also think Eliot's compassion and respect toward those in both of these settings underlines that the writers aren't intending for the audience to view them as stupid "country bumpkins."
I must admit, I was a little anxious about this ep because of the coal theme given its importance to my state and, very personally, friends' families. But, I enjoyed it as I have the rest of the season. Many thanks, again, for hosting this weekly conversation and wading through to answer the questions.
You're not really trying this season with Nate and Sophie, are you? I mean, last season Sophie was gone but then we got that fabulous kiss. I was looking forward to see more of the sexual tension after THAT kiss, looked so promising. Okay, we got a couple of moments early in the season but now you've totally abandoned them, the romance between them. This season should've built on that kiss. Such a shame and a missed opportunity after the kiss. Almost too late but is there anything coming up for them at all?
Please tell me that you'll work into another episode all of Parker's "notes" she has on each member of the team. That would be hilarious.
I'm also wondering how in the hell Parker didn't realize that they were having sex. She's not a virgin, is she? :O I mean, even if she is, most people would still recognize what those sounds were. Haha.
From what I remember, methane in a mine is dangerous because it makes the oxygen disappear somehow (sorry, out sick that day).
In the olden days miners used a lit candle or lantern and if those went out, it meant the oxygen was running out, too. Which was bad news.
Now, from what I gathered from the episode, methane is also highly explosive.
Q:Why were there lit lanterns in the abandoned, unsafe, supposedly methane filled shaft where Nate and Blackwell were stuck?
Q:Shouldn't Blackwell have thought to blow those lanterns out, saving oxygen and decreasing the risk of an explosion?
There were lit lanterns all over the mine in addition to the electric lights. It sure looked cosy, but am I right in suspecting that lanterns are TV shorthand for 'old and unsafe mine'?
One minor hitch in the fun train; I got the impression that the miner came to the team, not them finding out about the problem and contacting him. So now random folk from small, usually socially isolated, backwoods towns 500 or so miles away known about the Leverage crew and how to contact 'em? These guys are almost as easy to find as the A-Team! : -)
I enjoyed Haridson saying "Now you're just making stuff up" LOL. Of course, being a parker fan, all things the writers and beth does with parker.
I didn't see it in the comments yet (sorry if blind), but I don't understand how the AG knew sophie was tricking her. One moment she's stunned that "sophie" is sleeping with her man and taking the pac money out (away from blackwell) and next she's telling sophie she's on to her and cancelling the transaction and threating to send her to jail.
It obviously was a nasty portrayal of a person who had to be meant to remind one strongly of Sarah Palin. And that is a cheap shot. I would hope for better from the staff of Leverage. It is most likely intended as sub lineal reinforcement of the liberal point of view. If liberal can’t be up front and honest in their attempts to influence society it shows that they are dealing in an underhanded sort of way so whose the problem and cannot be intrinsically trusted. Also, I do not like Nate’s talks about the rich and powerful all being evil at the beginning of each show. That is not fair and reinforces the liberal divide and conquer platform demonizing all people who have made wealth. It would be fine if he said there are the rich and powerful who.... Also, the liberals who post on this thread are obviously hateful regarding Sarah Palin which doesn’t reflect badly on her but rather on them. Nothing in this world is perfect, though, and for the time being I will continue to watch Leverage because it is a great show, but if they infringe on my sensibilities much more the show will be a thing of my past.
The mine salting is the right idea, but most people checking the wall (of the mine) for minerals would dig into the wall. So the bad guys would use a shotgun to fire the minerals into the wall. Eliot doesn't mind getting dirty, literally, a good trait!
Does Parker keep a notebook on the other members of the team?
I think the somewhat scary idea is that she does now. To help her do the con, Sophie told her to apply her insanely-focused intelligence and powers of observation to figure out people the way she figures out security systems. Apparently Parker never thought of doing that before, and the last scene with H&P suggests that Sophie has now created a monster...
@notapatsy: Awe, sweetie, relax. If you're really feeling persecuted, you could go back to the "Three Days of the Hunter Job" when they took on the (I think) liberal media.
Besides, it's not like a team of writers could really have some subversive plot, brilliantly executed and only distinguishable through flashbacks, to push their own agenda... oh, wait...
@ Roy: "Yeah, I was joking about the "bumpkin" thing. If I had known someone was gonna get legit upset about it I wouldn'ta done it. Sorry."
Not upset (goodness - it's a TV show we're ultimately discussing). Didn't realize it was a joke...I follow the blog discussion enough to see the posts of people who legitimately ask such a question (like the one Rogers mentioned), but not enough to know the posters who would just be joking. Sorry you thought I was upset with ya (and for taking it too seriously) *embarrassed blush*
Another fun ep! Thanks so much for continuing to bring the fun train. And while an annoyed Elliot is funny, I'm also glad to see he's just tugging Hardison's chain sometimes.
Also -- while I appreciate the new face of the blog on my computer, this morning it didn't work very well on my phone (Android.) I suspect it needs to be better optimized for mobile.
Another great episode. Kudos to the behind the scenes folks. We don't give y'all enough credit you know, being blinded by the pretty ones and all...
1. Loved having Tim bring back the Gibson character. I would really love to have you bring back his Karl Lagerfeld impersonation, though I have no clue how you would fit that in.
2. I really appreciated how Parker has to equate grifting to be 'stealing souls' just to fit into her frame of reference.
3. Was really shocked that Eliot actually swung a killing blow in the mine fight scene. I don't think we've ever seen him actually try to kill anyone before. He usually just goes for the knockout. Kinda disturbing, but wholly sexy. I know, I'm sick.
Love Leverage. FWIW definitely did not think the AG was a Palin reference, but I spend a lot of time watching politicians.
My real question is not so much this ep but the Portland locations. Is that building shown behind the opening titles a real building in Portland or elsewhere -- if so, where? -- or is is a "constructed" image?
@Gina The only resemblance I saw to Palin was the the big hair and egocentricity. Palin isn't nearly that bright, articulate and competent. Quite the opposite in fact. I thought Pierce was more of an eviled-up Hillary/Pelosi ballbreaker type.
Cory was turning 14, then two years later he was 18.
At first I thought, why is Sophie playing the inspector and sending Parker to the AG? Seems like the attorney general's assistant requires more finesse.
But then of course Sophie's role required a character pretending to be another character, and then when the con went south she had to improvise with the AG.
Parker does a good accent.
So there are no actual questions here. Anyhow, fun episode.
Another fantastic episode! I don't know how you guys do it, but keep it up :)
I PROMISE not to infer anything specific about Eliot's background/family based on his response to Cory, because I know how you hate that. (Unless...I'm supposed to? This one time? Dammit!) I just have to say that their interaction was lovely, and the actors deserve a lot of credit for making it feel natural.
Wow, I did not get a Palin vibe AT ALL from the AG. I honestly don't get how people are making that connection. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't take on a certain rogue ex-governor in a future episode...
Eliot's fights are usually brutal, but it genuinely surprised me when he swung that pickaxe right at the evil henchman's head - that definitely would have been a fatal blow if it had landed. And we know that nothing pisses Eliot off more than those who hurt or take advantage of the people they're supposed to protect. So, Question 1) Obviously if Eliot really wanted the guy dead, he'd be dead - but would it be safe to say that at that moment he didn't *care* much if the guy took a terminal pickaxe to the skull? Or was it just a very cool-looking move with no particular deeper meaning?
And 2) If the mine was basically a death trap, how could the team risk even that small explosion? Was "Section C" supposed to be a little more stable than the rest of the mine?
Tip-off: I knew there was no way a perfect confession like that was going to go to waste. And of course a real mine explosion wouldn't have left so many people free to walk around.
Best moment: Hardison's reaction to geezer sex.
@Kevin:I don't understand how the AG knew sophie was tricking her.
"Knew" or "believed"? She certainly had reason to think badly of Sophie.
One last question (well, maybe the last). Has anyone ever addressed the question of why the seasons are split? I really dislike it and would like to know if there is actually some sort of logic behind it. KTHXBAI.
Having just deleted three paragraphs wherein I ranted about the villainy of Don Blankenship and various other elements of the coal industry, lol, I'd just like to thank the Leveragers for their sympathetic treatment of the people involved. This is the first "con" that hit close to home and I was a little leery.
I have a question concerning the "group gloat"...isn't it smarter *not* to let the mark know who took him? If it's to protect the client by diverting attention, how difficult would it be for the villain to follow the paper trail? Does Hardison erase all records of the client's travel to Boston or phone records, etc? I know that it's a popular element of the show. It just seems kinda cocky and the sort of thing that could turn around and bite a grifter in the ass.
John, we are concerned about the Southern accents on your show. They are BAD, and the show is SO GOOD. Who is vetting these? They need work. The Studio Job and now The Underground Job have both included unfortunate accent work. What can we do to help?
@Stacy -- isn't season-splitting something that most cable networks do? USA does, I know. Irritating, but they seem to think it's the best way, for whatever reason.
@Jen_Ann_W -- Nate is SO not a bastard! He's awesome!!
@Various -- man, some of you don't read very carefully. I explained exactly why I thought the character was a jab at Palin. My second comment on here was as specific as I could possibly make it. (Incidentally, I talked to someone last night who had recognized the visual resemblances before I did, just from having seen the promo pictures before watching the episode.) If you're still clamoring to know why I thought it was a Palin parody, though not by means a good one, that's your misunderstanding.
The Wonder Twins managed to pack a whole lot into that hour of television. Excellent job. However, you need to stop making me stay up so late on a 'school' night in order to watch the repeat performance. Thanks again for answering questions here. It's really what makes multiple viewings a necessity for me. Now for this week's: Why did the scene with Nate getting whacked on the head get shown twice? That would have potentially allowed time for the 'missing' scenes. Just how big is 'Lucille II'?
We know that Hardison makes costumes and gadgets on his weekends, and Parker scouts out banks and other potential targets' alarm systems and security measures. So what do Nate, Sophie and Eliot do on their weekends?
@Gina so is a Palin parody that's not by any means a good Palin parody and done by a character that's not meant to be Palin and doesn't share any of her personal qualities or professional similarities except hair still a Palin parody?
We're in deep eschatological territory here. :P
This is, of course, even sillier because the character was a man for a good chunk of breaking the story. We didn't go female until late in the development, and that was because we realized we had a chance to do another rare female villain, and one that fit a certain type of Southern (and as noted, probably Democratic) politician.
We will definitely address this on the blog, however, as it splits off into three or four distinct and interesting questions, not the least of which being "Would making fun of Sarah Palin be the same as making fun of conservatives?" So good post.
@Scav: Now you've got me picturing Hardison spending some of his precious weekend time doing Search Engine Optimization on a (hmm, what do they call themselves other than the generic "crew") Leverage webpage that only shows up when just the right search terms are entered. That and writing carefully composed text ads that again are associated only with just the right terms...
Different tack. Does Hardison have any friends? I could be misremembering, but we've seen Nate's ex-wife, former work buddy Sterling, old friend who became a priest, Parker's mentor, Sophie's whatever connection to Tara, and folk from Elliot's past. But I don't think we've seen anyone who Hardison knew pre-Leverage other than Chaos, who hardly counts in the same way. Still think he and Parker should be hanging out at MIT a lot.
This episode kinda made me sad, because when all was said, and the con was done, the coal miners were still coal miners, and that's a crap job, no matter how theoretically "safe" you make it.
BTW the West Virginia accents were bad pretty much wall-to-wall. And Nate seemed to be doing a lot more Jimmy Papadokalis than Bob Gibson in his Bob Gibson this ep.
That said, Parker on the grift was delightful, and iritated Eliot never gets old.
It's getting nice and weird on the TNT board. They get that a red suit and big hair do not a Palin make, particularly absent glasses (although the woman couldn't be a bigger target if she painted a bulls-eye on her back!)
However, one or two have decided there was a homo-erotic vibe between Cory and Eliot, probably because of Nate's Village People reference. The mind reels.
Speaking of which, did Eliot realize Cory was lying about his age, and was only 16? I found myself wondering if this didn't resonate with Eliot to some degree because he'd done something similar back when he was 16 or 17, probably to join whatever group started him on the path to where we find him now.
* Parker's asking about the Fiddle Game and Eliot's reaction - priceless. * The Eliot and Hardison scene with the devices that Hardison made (I can't remember what they were called!) was freaking hilarious! I've said it a million times, but those two are comedic gold. "I thought we was makin' progress!" * Love Parker's grifting! Beth does a mean southern accent! * Liked how Nate and Eliot were color-coordinated with the blue bowtie and Eliot's blue shirt and blue bandanna. * The return of the "For morale, man!"!! Eliot's reaction to the man-hug thing was comical. * Ah, the good ol' recording the com trick! * A huge "Awww!" at Eliot's speech to Cory at the end. Absolutely loved the look on his face when Cory hugged him. I love how Eliot's heart is getting a little bigger, though it's probably going to come back and bite him on the ass... * Parker's notekeeping...I really hope this comes back in a future episode!
Questions! 1) Any significance to Eliot wearing a white shirt at the beginning of the episode? After watching Lost, you start noticing stuff like that... 2) During the briefing, why Sophie is twisting/playing with the ring on her finger? Some kind of nervous habit? 3)When Blackwell is sitting in corner of the corner watching Nate and Sophie, there's a guy sitting next to the coffee machine with is back to the camera who looks a lot like Eliot, who is supposed to be down in the mine. Is it really Christian sitting there because no one can see his face, or just an extra?
Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to crazy fangirls and boys!
Okay guys, I don't really care who they base the characters on, as long as the team wins and the bad guys pay. YOu all are taking this a little too serious, the whole point of the fun train is to sit back and enjoy the ride.
I discovered your awesome show about a month ago. I spent the weekend watching the Season 1 DVD + the commentary and the first two episodes and commentary of Season 2. I'm now officially obsessed with this series, freakin' obsessed, I tell you.
Again, I enjoyed Bob Gibson coming back but I think I liked his hats better than the goofy bow ties (for a second I thought he was channeling both Bob Gibson and the professor dude from "The Fairy Godparents Job").....still I read the other posts and the bow ties turned on someone else so to each their own!
One last thing on Palin-not Palin - if it had been a parody, Tina Fey would have showed up! (wink)
1) We have diamond mines and coal mines that resonate w/ Eliot.
More background that we're supposed to connect or purely coincidental?
2) Hardison grew up in foster care w/ 'Nana' (will she ever be referenced again? She kind of fell off the planet after s1) and no mention of any kind of father figure. Looks like he finally got his dose of "walking in on his parents" that he may have missed...
3) Suppose ParHardikerson, SoParphiker and HarEldisoniot each took on the Mof's SherWatlockson in a dark alley, who would win? Or would FoSterdling swoop in and claim victory?
@Lydia: You'd think with Blackwood sitting so close in the corner, Nate would wait until Sophie was sitting down next to him before asking if they bought the fake inspection.
I think Blackwood was supposed to overhear Nate and Sophie about the fake inspection. That was how they hooked him. He realized Sophie wasn't an inspector, but someone pretending to be one just to get a look at his mine. Remember how fast she whipped out a business card with her "real" (fake) name?
Damn it Galloway, you stole my question. And Scav too? It's like a racx reunion in here...
But yes, the team certainly seems to be getting a rep, and with more and more strangers coming to them from farther and farther away, isn't it just a matter of time before someone tracks them down? Or is that how we find out more about Eliot?
a) Was party affiliation mentioned on the show? A Democrat candidate certainly lessens the resemblance.
b) On the other hand, it's not unknown for local candidate to strengthen their own resemblance to a national figure like Palin.
c) On the third hand, Rogers, you should have left the character male. AND kept the sex scene. That would have made it more specific for Republican politicians.
Don't we know that Eliot grew up in the horse country of Kentucky, which is not all that far from the coal mining country of Kentucky?
I agree that it's very likely that Eliot, like Michael Westen, lied about his age to join the military. (AFAIK the CIA, etc., do not recruit straight out of high school.)
Eliot seemed particularly agitated in this episode (mostly at Hardison). Is this indicative of the fact that his past is catching up with him faster than anticipated, or is there something else going on?
LOVED this episode, by the by. The L-Team always gives me a grin a mile wide.
"smells like bubbles" reminded me of Spike's "I'm drowning in footwear" line on Buffy.
This episode was really good. I want to know where the exterior of the mine scenes were shot. AND were the big digs roaming around in the final scene actual mining equipment or just what was 'around'? (Big Digs is what my nephew called all large yellow self-propelled machinery. Is there a better name for it?)
Someone mentioned Eliot's dislike of mines (sorry I'm not going to go searching for who), but I think it's slightly different than "He hates mines."
I think it's more Eliot hates unsafe mines. The show and CK have been pretty clear that Eliot doesn't like it when the working man is stomped on and he REALLY doesn't like it when people are forced to work in unsafe conditions.
The man liberated Croatia when his heart was broken!
Few actually admit to picking up on any bromancing vibes, but once it was pointed out, the hard hats and Village People reference - well - the situation is clearly getting out of hand...
I find myself asking new questions.
The end of the show, for example, when the policeman shows up at the mine with the cuffs? Does it mean that the Indian, the Sailor and the Biker Dude are already down there?
I've spent the hours since my last post here singing "Macho, macho man..." over and over again in my head and then suddenly realised why. What began as one tiny, posted spark has fueled a fierce fiery fusillade of Flaming Eliot fancies!
I always thought of Jesus as a liberal - heal the poor, pay your taxes, love ye one another. But now I'm confused. What is republican Jesus like? Screw the sick, poor. The wealthy shouldn't have to pay their fair share. Hate anybody different than us. It seems to me that the modern conservatives are anti-Christians grifting for souls.
Loved it! Loved the continuation of Sophie mentoring Parker (and Parker's subsequent performance) and the generous sprinkling of Eliot/Hardison laugh out loud moments, and again I really enjoyed the change from the office / bank setting (even though I realise why those are the most common ones).
@Gina - I understand what you're saying about Palin re hair and red jacket. My first thought was that she was a Palin parody because of the hairstyle, but as we saw more of her I realised this was off the mark and she was a more generic stereotype - plus of course Mr Rogers has himself confirmed that she was never intended to be one.
As for the red jacket: yes, when first I read your comment I wondered if perhaps the costume supervisor had made some subconscious judgment/leap, but then I quickly googled the names of the few US female politicans I know. And the google image results show many of them wearing red jackets more often than Sarah Palin's results show her wearing them. There's a reason why it's one of the garments of choice for these people. I think you can rest easy on that front and go back to enjoying the fun train.
a) Was party affiliation mentioned on the show? A Democrat candidate certainly lessens the resemblance.
I don't remember it being mentioned, but Wikipedia says the last fifteen attorneys general of West Virginia have been Democrats, so I think it's pretty likely a fictional one would also be one.
1. What area did you find that looks so much like Appalachia? I felt like I was home again!
2. What are your feelings about TNT airing "The Rashomon Job" in a different order than you intended? Does it work?
3. Does Eliot's aversion to hugs come from a general sense of wanting to keep his personal space (as I've been assuming) or his military history (as a hug may be a decent time to put a knife between someone's ribs)?
4. Was it Sophie or Nate who coached Parker in the accent? It may not have been an Appalachian accent, per se (Sophie's in "Two-Horse" was WAY further south than KY), but at least it was consistent, which is (to me) the most important thing (and more than you can say for the cast of True Blood in its first season).
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or just getting closer to the people than before? 2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go? 3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name arch - will we learn it this season? 4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him having issues during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent? 5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that are starting to see seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something. 6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems? lol
As always great episode and thanks for doing this :)
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or developing more of a heart? 2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where now I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go? 3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name issue - will we learn it this season? 4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him being a great husband during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent. 5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at Baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something. 6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems for the team? lol
Thanks as always for a great episode and for answering these questions!
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or developing more of a heart? 2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where now I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go? 3. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. We know his dad's past affected him, - how 'broken' was he already when his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent. 4. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at Baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
5. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems for the team? lol
Thanks as always for a great episode and for answering these questions! Oh and I love the relationship between Hardison and Eliot. Those two never cease to make me crack up.
@Anonymous said... I always thought of Jesus as a liberal - heal the poor, pay your taxes, love ye one another. But now I'm confused. What is republican Jesus like? Screw the sick, poor. The wealthy shouldn't have to pay their fair share. Hate anybody different than us. It seems to me that the modern conservatives are anti-Christians grifting for souls.
Me thinks the Republican Jesus would say an eye for an eye, God helps those who help themselves, don't speak with forked tongues, and love one another, not screw the middle man.
I am very pleased once again with this week's episode.
If I understand correctly from "The Two-Horse Job", as someone above pointed out, Eliot apparently grew up in horse country in state of Kentucky (I am born and still living in that state, just in far western flatter parts away from horse country and coalfields) so not that very much far off from coalfields in eastern Kentucky and in West Virginia.
Coal miners generally makes for tough men (it's not easy and clean job, is it?) so it wouldn't be a stretch to think that Eliot started out working in a mine and later on so soon joined the military and the rest is history.
Another thing to note here... It has been stated in this episode that Blackwell is BOTH a Chief Executive Officer (or CEO for short) and the mine supervisor. Now, that seems to suggest the corporation running this mine is a small corporation, not a large one like a few that runs countless mines. Normally, in small corporation, few employees would hold more than one titles there so it makes sense for Blackwell to hold both titles at a small corporation. This is especially reflected by the fact that his office is in a trailer right next to the mine's entrance instead of being in a fancy office building in a large city away from the mine. Either that or he prefers his office that way.
-- J.S. A gold medal for Nate and the team, a stocking stocked with coal for Blackwell and Pierce...
3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name arch - will we learn it this season?
Rogers previously said that we'd hear Sophie called something in the season finale by someone from her past which may or may not be her *real* real name.
4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him having issues during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent?
Rogers has previously said that Nate was always a bastard, but Maggie was one helluva mitigating factor in keeping that in check. ... Of course, with a dad like that, I'd be a bastard too.
5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that are starting to see seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
Really? The team can't do a lot of stuff. It just so happens that Nate over plans so that there's a contingency plan for every possibility ... except Sterling coming into play. Nate can't beat Sterling.
Hardison can't hack the Cayman Island's Bank where every Big Bad in existence keeps an account with loads of dirty money. He also can't "hack a hick" if you remember from the Tap-Out Job.
Parker can't handle horses, and can't crack a Sterenko by herself.
Sophie can't talk her way out of everything. There's a reason she's teaching Parker to grift. They need her to be able to.
Eliot ... I think you're overestimating how good he is. Sure, he's Batman or Wolverine, but even Eliot gets hurt. It just so happens that if he were to go to a hospital he'd be arrested. He can't show weakness in this way otherwise he'd be dead by now. Hospitals use drugs and drugs mean you can't fight as well as normally.
If Eliot wasn't as good as he was, he'd be dead by now. That's just the nature of his line of work. You're either the best or you die.
6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems? lol
... I'll leave this one for Rogers to answer. I vote please no.
When I saw the AG, I immediately thought of Meg Scott Phipps from here in North Carolina, who took cash from amusement companies in exchange for granting them exclusive contracts for the State Fair and other fairs throughout the state, funneled the cash through campaign funds and paid off employees who threatened to talk. After serving time for federal convictions of conspiracy, mail fraud, and extortion in the same facility as Martha Stewart, she went back on the state payroll as a community college instructor.
She was known for wearing her hair in a tight bun and her suit sets.
When he was struggling with that in S1 and S2 Timothy Hutton was damn good. Funny, Dramatic. The whole package. Now he's 2D instead of 3D. Whe...re is the depth of the stories going?
@Jason Taylor Cory lied about his age, possibly to impress Eliot, possibly for his job, but Eliot seemed to know he was not 18 as evidenced by the question, "Why aren't you in school?" That is not a question someone typically asks of an 18 year old, which is usually the age people graduate high school.
John, this ep was so wonderful. It could have used a touch more fighting! LOL!
Also, re: the whole "the team can't do everything" thread, I know they can't do everything, but it seems to me that, obsessive-control freak that Nate is (and mastermind par excellence), he would not commit his team to a plan that called for them to do things he wasn't dead certain they could do. Or that they, being professionals at the top of their respective professions, would not agree to do something they were not absolutely certain they could do.
For instance, in the planning of the Studio Job, I can easily imagine Nate asking if anyone could sing or play, and Eliot, being reasonably certain of his abilities, would say, "I can." Nate would make certain he could at least carry a tune, and play *the* tune, and then Hardison would chime in with his, "I've got this software …" spiel.
As for talents that pop up without us ever having known about them before, well, we honestly don't know more about these people than we do. Except maybe Nate, though he still has some areas to be filled in.
For all we know, Eliot, like so many other Southern boys, was in a garage band in high school. And Hardison was a musical prodigy who, due to finances possibly, never got the chance to explore his genius.
But the thing I keep coming back to is this. Our team has to succeed at whatever they do, because the minute they fail, they all go down in flames.
SueN said: But the thing I keep coming back to is this. Our team has to succeed at whatever they do, because the minute they fail, they all go down in flames.
Plus, it's there show *solemn nod* ;)
My question: What did Hardison say to Eliot after the hug that caused Eliot to smile at him? I went back and played it over and over but couldn't suss it out.
Love the show. Consistently and completely. Thank you.
@PhantomMinuet re "This episode kinda made me sad, because when all was said, and the con was done, the coal miners were still coal miners, and that's a crap job, no matter how theoretically "safe" you make it."
Agreed and I think it was purposefully done for whatever reason. Ending on a shot of the mine, knowing that the conditions were not safe YET but they still had to work there...and even when they are made safer it's still not a safe job, really. It definitely made me sad.
I just can't recall another episode where the final frame was the initial "victims" of the ep and not in a "yay! all better!" way. That was my take, anyway. I might've taken it the wrong way, or rather a different way than it was intended.
Rogers has previously said that Nate was always a bastard, but Maggie was one helluva mitigating factor in keeping that in check. ... Of course, with a dad like that, I'd be a bastard too.
I can imagine that for Nate, mightily not wanting to be ANYTHING like his father, having a son of his own was probably also a very strong mitigating factor against being a bastard. Being a good father - and by extension a good man - was probably the most important thing in Nate's life. Losing his son took away the most important reason he had to try to be good, to be the opposite of his father. He may never have consciously thought it, but I can easily imagine the subconscious question: "What's the point in trying to be a better man than my father, when God has taken away from me the reason I was trying so hard?"
If you'll pardon a purple metaphor, Sophie may be his compass, but Sam was his anchor and Maggie was his rudder. After Sam died, he was without all of them.
Nate's a fascinating character. Trying to think of another "leader of the pack" character who was deeply flawed, not a nice guy, and continued to evolve over the course of the series, and also headed up a gang of thieves, the one that comes immediately to my mind is Mal Reynolds.
Donna, after the hug (that Eliot didn't like), Hardison said, "For morale!"
Me thinks the Republican Jesus would say an eye for an eye, God helps those who help themselves, don't speak with forked tongues, and love one another, not screw the middle man.
You're thinking of Hamurabi. Jesus was the guy talking about forgiveness.
Hi, this is my first time commenting here. I'm really enjoying the show, and I'm extremely excited about the next episode! My first question is will we ever see good character development in Nate? As an inspiring writer myself when I create characters I want to see them succeed. Rock bottom isn't the end of their character development, or story lines. I understand that Nate isn't a good person, and will definitely get worse before he gets better. Will he get better is the question I’m asking. Also, will there ever be a season finale that doesn't focus mostly on Nate? More specifically I mean a season finale that comes about because of one of the other characters actions or choices, past or present. Thank you for the time you take in answering our questions :)
Zenkitty - I totally just shared a brain with you about Nate. Posted in the comments to the Double Blind Answer post about how different he is from the usual "leader" type in action-type shows. I was trying to think of another one similar to him and couldn't. To me, he's closer to the type of character you see in Mad Men or the Sopranos.
As for Palin, I think it's reading a lot into it to take a red jacket and an up-do and turn it into a parody of Sarah Palin. There may be some VERY superficial similarities but there are a lot more differences.
Of course, Leverage has been accused by some conversative blogger of being a mouthpiece for the "WH's liberal agenda," so it doesn't surprise me that some viewers may be looking for subtext in every little thing.
As for this ep, I was a little perplexed by the physical assault on Nate. If Blackwell was just planning to conserve air with one less body, wouldn't he have done the deed and killed Nate? Nate also recovered quick from having a 2x4 snapped over his back. Were there any scenes cut out down in the mine with Eliot and Nate? In the interest of bromance, we must know these things.
Unrelated to Leverage, but where else am I gonna ask?
Andrew Cosby, who you worked with at Boom Studios and on Leverage last year, is a co-producer on the new Mage movie option (http://tinyurl.com/35da53j) and is looking for a writer. Any chance of your involvement?
I only ask because your early 00's Mage script was an excellent 2-hourish adaptation of a HUGE story that some of us are VERY particular about.
@gina - you're entitled to your opinions but not your own facts: "Uh, guys? The Palin parody? Completely lame. Now, give us a parody of a First Lady who spends like a drunken sailor in the middle of a recession . . . then you'd REALLY have something funny."
Econ 101: You WANT consumers to spend in a recession - see WSJ: http://bit.ly/9qXTMe and the FLOTUS did pay for room, food, transportation costs of her politically tone-deaf vacation to Spain (NYT) http://nyti.ms/a0MMKF
Anyway, back to the real story, "Leverage" - a nice episode with some great lines (Village people reference was priceless) and an interesting way to set up the back episodes.
I was thinking the southern pol was Ann Richards. If she was evil. Or Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Republican, but she's the right inspiration for the hair). Possibly Janet Reno, no?
For season 4, how about scheming political wives as the big bad- such a target-rich environment from which to choose.
Again, thanks for reading the posts/answering questions.
My question: What did Hardison say to Eliot after the hug that caused Eliot to smile at him? I went back and played it over and over but couldn't suss it out.
Thank you! He said something like "I'm going to be as far away from the mine as possible. High five, for morale....Go with God....???????????" (I *think* I heard...."I'm Captain Ahab"?) It made Eliot chuckle whatever it was.
Another great ep! I have to admit, the fact that Eliot is growing a heart makes me veeeery nervous for him! I love how you can almost see his internal conflict. He knows he shouldn't allow himself to be emotionally invested in the people he's helping, but he can't help it! I think it's a great insight on how having a family changes people, whether they like it or not. Eliot is just beginning to recognize a change in himself, and he already knows it's going to cost him, but also that it's the price he has to pay to be in relationships with the rest of the crew. Brilliant writing! I always appreciate it when the "tough guy" character shows a little vulnerability. I can only guess we will be seeing more of that later in the season????
A great episode all around, always fun to see Parker's awkwardness mixed with her maturation as a character. My question is totally unrelated to this episode, but previous comments made me wonder:
Did Maggie know anything about Sophie during their marriage? Even as simple as that's who Nate was chasing? And when exactly did Sam get sick enough to the point where Nate stopped working to be with him?
Thanks so much for all the time you spend pleasing us needy fans!!! haha
As stated, they are much more peers now. Which is good, because Nate is much more of a bastard now.
Is that cause and effect? Be interesting to see that Nate lets himself be more of a bastard as the team are more peers now, and that he accepts them as family. Makes sense, given his real father.
Dee Loralei, I just kept on reading HOPING someone would point this out to you but I never found it. 1) It seems you have gotten The Underground Job mixed up with The Studio Job. 2) If I'm remembering my Twitter feed from over a year ago right Christian Kane tweeted about wanting the Leverage crew to take on a music company after he ran into an issues trying to release a song. 3) Christian SINGS country in real life so having to blues because that is more Memphis then country just wouldn't work. 4) I don't think that this did THAT episode to highlight the new show TNT is running called Memphis Beat. As I said before I believe this was in the planning stages LONG before Memphis Beat was Green Lite by TNT.
Loved this episode Rogers. I'm just not getting why so many people seem to be upset with the southern accent. As someone born and raised in the south I'm finding no issues with them at all.
AliKatKaniac said... I'm not sure if you played it but in that web game on the TNT webpage last year we got told that Eliot was part of a country band in his early years and he didn't want ANYONE to see or hear the recordings. That made the whole Eliot can sing thing seem more real when it came to the studio job.
A general observation: I personally think that given how Nate almost fell apart without Sophie beside him last season (and he was well aware what the reason was), he missed her and begged her to come back, almost said 'I love you' and kissed her, it makes no sense how you make him act distant and sometimes insensitive to Sophie this season. Why did you stop developing this relationship? How could Nate not allow her to get closer to him when she worried about him in The Three Card Monte Job? Why was the subplot of Nate earning the right to learn Sophie's real name just dropped like they both forgot all about it? It was cute how he wanted to know it real bad. And now I read here that you've deleted some scenes they shared. I don't understand, we've almost come to the end of the summer run and you've done practically nothing with these two. Why have the writers forgotten about Nate and Sophie after a couple of episodes at the beginning of the season? A nice little moment between them here and there, would that be so hard to come up with?
I guess Nate and the audience won't get to know Sophie's real name this season since Nate has done nothing to deserve it, to win Sophie back. More like the opposite.
On the Sophie's name, thing - when did this distinction between "sophie's real name" and "sophie's real real name" come up? If we're going to get a red herring name in the King George job (maybe), does that mean we're not going to get the "real real" name this season? Or we are? I'm so confused.
I have watched the episode my obligatory three (or four) times before making my post...
Most of my questions have been asked already but there was one thing glaring for me...
Why in the hell would Nate and Blackwell go back down in that mine without hardhats! SERIOUSLY? It is an unstable mine to begin with and Blackwell knows there is a good chance of a bomb..
This was a great epi. Eliot with a heart...twirling a pick axe. *sigh*
Parker's line at the end about Stealing Souls being exhausting was priceless.
all around terrific episode. But - a Wonder twins epi with Eliot NOT in a suit - that must have hurt them both deeply.
It seems that everybody is learning the skills of the others (Parker making progress being a grifter, Hardison being the mastermind, ..) The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot. Is there a reason why? Or is there more to come?
Thanx for the great show. And congrats for season four. Whish you and your writer-team great ideas. Keep us surprised with every episode.
The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot. Is there a reason why?
I would (carefully) claim that that's because he's already good at most of these things (except the computer stuff, see his interactions with Hardison). There were small hints at this in the .. uh .. episode where they had to rescue Maggie in Ukraine. He used to retrieve .. things. and people.
on the whole "Sophie's real name thing"... When watching the eps in what I believe was the intended order (The Inside Job being 305, coming between the Double-Blind and the Studio - think Rogers confirmed that?), you get more of a sense of the arc and it doesn't feel like it was has been forgotten since the 3rd ep. I really prefer Parker's growth watching this way - it kind of feels more natural.
Well, I have to say I'm finding this season really uneven. You guys are getting really sloppy. I realize our heroes are the best of the worst, but you still have to show some of the prep work and background "infrastructure" in these jobs. The hand waving of details is getting too broad in some episodes.
Sofie and Nate are the worst. Apparently the Power of the Grifter is so strong within them, that the marks will believe any horse crap thrown at them. "We're from the Department of Bamboozlement. We'd like total access to your office/bank/mine." "Uh...okey dokey." "And we don't want you following us around. We want to privately muck with your computers." "No problem...wait. I forgot to read the tag pinned to my suit. It sez 'don't forget to ask for ID and stuff.'"
And don't get me started on Hardistan's computer wizardry. It's a trap many different shows fall into. The computer hacker/genius can do ANYTHING from ANY computer he sits down at. People would scream in protest if Elliott blew a vault door off its hinges with one kick, but will nod along at Hardistan doing the equivalent superpowers with a keyboard.
I don't need to see extended scenes of handicraft time, making fake IDs. Or lengthy explanations of Hardistan's creation of fake computer backgrounds. But there needs to be an acknowledgement that this was done. If the villains are to have any sly and fiendish credibility, they have to make our heroes jump thru at least some basic hoops.
I've been a keen fan of the show from the first episode, but this season...please pull up your socks.
Question 1) Do you ever get tired of being told you are amazing and wonderful and a genius and so on? (Because I don't get tired of thinking it :) Question 2) Clearly, something major is a brewing with Eliot and you seem way too excited about it. Since it will probably have already aired by the time you answer this question: is/was the intent to simply significantly develop/reveal the history of the character or is/was it to change our view of Eliot? (Clearly, he is THE fan fave, as Nate was in season 1 (or at least part of it). You made us loathe him, and so everyone was forced to pick a new fave, making it a true ensemble cast rather than the Nate and his team show)If you want our view of Eliot to change, WHY? (Please don't answer: 'I think you know why' I hate it when you do that:) Question 3) Not a shipper and really, really hate the unnecessary merging of two names...that said, I really want Parker and Hardison to hook up. Can/will that be done without feeling the need to add in relationship drama? I mean, can they have feelings, have sex, enjoy each other, but the show still be about the cons, or will we have to sit through scenes of 'discussing emotions'? Question 4) Hardison has been established as an extremely competent hack who obviously has cashed in on that skill. At least one flashback had him as a geek teen, presumably from a reasonable family. And he seems to have a conscious--like the kind of guy who, with a glimpse or two at the effect of his thievery on (good/innocent) others would have redirected his skills. What am I missing?
@notapatsy Wow...just wow. But thanks, 'cause I really needed that laugh.
@jonrog This is still a fictional TV show right? Or are you actually hypnotizing us all during the flashback scenes in order to coordinate a political coup. 'Cause if so, then I'm not watching anymore. I don't like hypnosis :p
Well, I have to say I'm finding this season really uneven. You guys are getting really sloppy. I realize our heroes are the best of the worst, but you still have to show some of the prep work and background "infrastructure" in these jobs.
In your opinion. I'd say the majority disagree. And if you're going to give notes, at least do Rogers the courtesy of getting the characters right: ELIOT and HARDISON, not Elliott and Hardistan. It's tough to take a point seriously with that egregious an error.
@Jason Taylor and Kathleen Venable: Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them.
The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot. Is there a reason why?
I would (carefully) claim that that's because he's already good at most of these things (except the computer stuff, see his interactions with Hardison). There were small hints at this in the .. uh .. episode where they had to rescue Maggie in Ukraine. He used to retrieve .. things. and people.
----
To add to that, I'd have to say that Eliot is slowly learning computer skills. Remember Hardison's outburst in this episode, "I thought we were making progress!"?
Eliot's learning something that he's not sure he'll need after the team breaks up. But he IS learning the one thing he doesn't really have right now. We've seen him grift. We've seen him steal. We've seen him plan the cons that work better (or as good as) the ones Nate comes up with. He just can't hack.
But I would argue that his computer skills have GREATLY increased this season. I think back to his quick keyboarding with the computer in the dental lab (one handed btw)
@anonymous
Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them
Even though there is no specific reference that this is the same Corey - I am pretty sure most of us agree (until Rogers confirms) that this is the SAME Corey and he lied about his age...
Gina Bellman has that smouldering, smoky brunette aura that simply cannot be matched, but oh Beth Riesgraf you have STOLEN my SOUL in that miniskirt. No question!
@Gina: Nate is SO not a bastard! He's awesome!! He's an awesome bastard.
@Tom Galloway: Does Hardison have any friends? Do you mean the face-to-face kind?
@Sarah: 1) We have diamond mines and coal mines that resonate w/ Eliot. More background that we're supposed to connect or purely coincidental? I concur with the "identification with the working stiff" line of thought, with a dash of "there but for the grace of God" tossed in.
@AliKatKaniac: how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent? First he's the antithesis of his father and then he pursues and captures people just like his father. So he's always been broken in that particular way. What's new now is realizing that he's not as different from his father as he originally thought (although he's not as like his father as perhaps he fears).
@gwangung: Be interesting to see that Nate lets himself be more of a bastard as the team are more peers now, and that he accepts them as family. I suspect Nate being more of a bastard has less to do with how he feels about the team and more to do with how he feels about himself. Although he has a better calibration of how much the team will put up with.
@anonymous said: Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them
But what are the odds of two miners who have a son named Cory being killed in the same explosion?
The doomed miner asks: Are you coming to Cory's birthday party this weekend?
And then we learn he's turning 14. So I think it's pretty safe to assume dead miner's son Cory and Eliot's friend Cory are the same guy.
@Blaze … sure. All we need for them to show us all the background work they do is, what, another 15-20 minutes per ep? Not to mention some exceedingly dull pipe? (Here's Hardison writing his code; here's Sophie and Nate researching mine safety groups; here's Parker casing a bank; here's Eliot scoping out security; here's me yawning …)
Why can't we be allowed to assume that, since these guys ARE the best at what they do, they, like, y'know, know what they're doing? And know what they need to do and are doing it?
At various times over the course of three seasons (for which time you've been such a keen fan), we have seen them do the detail work. Remember all those team briefings when Hardison (HARDISON, not Hardistan; he's not some former Soviet republic) has brought up file after file after file? Or when we've seen him create various identities? Or listened to him walk Eliot … and us … through the tech? When we've lovingly watched Parker break into various vaults/safes/offices/whatever? When we've seen Nate and SOPHIE (not Sofie; note how Rogers, the man who created her, spells her name) planning the cons?
These people are professionals; more, they are at the top of their professions. Why would you assume they haven't been doing the work they so obviously need to do in order to succeed? And why do we need to see every little detail? We're not idiots. We've seen them do these things before; we don't - or shouldn't - need to see it every time to understand that, yes, they're still doing the detail work.
Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
@la_ma Not to diss you or anything but Thats a terrible ideal for parker and Hardison just to "have sex and enjoy each other"..That requires no growth on the characters part if its nothing more than sex.
I suspect Nate being more of a bastard has less to do with how he feels about the team and more to do with how he feels about himself. Although he has a better calibration of how much the team will put up with. I suspect that's the greater part of the reason. But I have my doubts that Nate would allow himself to be as much of a bastard in season 1 or 2. there's a little bit of a realization that the team puts up with a little more BECAUSE they all are more peer like and everyones admitted they're a bit of a family.
Not to diss you or anything but Thats a terrible ideal for parker and Hardison just to "have sex and enjoy each other"..That requires no growth on the characters part if its nothing more than sex.
By the way....has it been established that HARDISON has had any experience in the romance arena? Just curious...
@SueN: Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
What SueN said.
Also, the show is in it's 3rd season. For any series to have longevity, you expect some things to be assumed knowledge from past seasons, rather than continuing to spoon-feed and hand-hold the audience. We all now know what each member can and can't/won't do e.g. Hardison hacking hicks, Eliot using Parker's rigs. Do we really need to be constantly reminded of how they do the things they do best? Or would we rather be continually surprised/amazed by each character's growth. Or in Nate's case, crossover to the "dark side".
I could go on a point by point rebuttal of @Blaze's comment, but the other forums would be a better(??) place to start flame-wars.
Regardless of some "huh??" moments throughout various episodes, I remain firmly nailed into my seat on the fun train. God help anyone who tries to pry me off it.
@gwangung: given that Hardison immediately recognised the noises for what they were, whereas Parker was oblivious, maybe it's safe to assume that he has some experience in that department. I dunno. Maybe that's just my own warped brain talking...
"Smells like bubbles" was my favorite note Parker took. It just made me happy.
Also, I never think of Nate as a bastard, which is weird, because I know he does bastard things. I just like him no matter what. This is a problem in my real life too, I think... haha.
We've seen Parker with the car thief gal and Eliot with the coal miner. Any chance of a Hardison mentor ship? Because I think that would be interesting and enjoyable.
@baby smoke: given that Hardison immediately recognised the noises for what they were, whereas Parker was oblivious, maybe it's safe to assume that he has some experience in that department. I dunno. Maybe that's just my own warped brain talking...
Wasn't it in The Stork Job that we found out all the guys were very familiar with a certain porn film series? Just sayin'...
And
@baby smoke: @SueN: Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
Can somebody just clarify for me, what is all this talk of S.W.O.R.D and S.H.I.E.L.D etc... I've seen it mentioned a few times but never really got what they meant.
It's Marvel Comics stuff - S.W.O.R.D. is a secret intelligence agency dealing with Earth affairs (superheroes and all that), while S.H.I.E.L.D.S' domain is extra-terrestrial.
Wasn't it in The Stork Job that we found out all the guys were very familiar with a certain porn film series? Just sayin'... well....Internet geek...what's the internet's made for...just sayin'.....
So, only a few people have mentioned this so far, and I have to – Eliot’s would-have-been-death-delivering blow down there in the mine. I know you wanted us to notice it (you did a close-up of the axe in the wall that clearly indicated, in case we’d somehow missed it, that had that guy not ducked, he would have been all kinds of dead), and I know that’s Eliot’s past catches up with him sometime this season, though you’ve all been charmingly vague about that (I would expect nothing less).
So, my questions are as follows, 1) If this was foreshadowing, how much longer are you going to make us wait for that Eliot plot line? (Please don’t say until after the hiatus *knows it’s already done but makes puppy eyes anyway*) 2)Was Eliot’s (moment of) willingness to kill that guy brought on by the fact that he’d put Cory in danger? 2a) Is Eliot’s spiral later this season (if spiral is the correct term to be using) going to be triggered by someone threatening/putting in danger, a member of the team? (and by ‘danger’, I do mean a kind more severe than we see on an episode-to-episode basis) 3) There’s a moment in the middle of the fight, right before he swings the axe into the wall, where Eliot tilts his head to the side and looks at that guy with an expression that’s nearly inhuman. Was that Eliot Spencer’s “I’m about to kill you” face? 3a) Are we ever going to see Eliot kill somebody?
All we need for them to show us all the background work they do is, what, another 15-20 minutes per ep? Not to mention some exceedingly dull pipe? (Here's Hardison writing his code; here's Sophie and Nate researching mine safety groups; here's Parker casing a bank; here's Eliot scoping out security; here's me yawning …) **** I agree with almost everything you said SueN, and whilst the above would be tiresome in standard eps, I could stand to see some extras of just that - DVD extras perhaps?!
Anonymous re: Eliot - I've been thinking that Eliot's either going to kill someone or not be able to - probably in the finale or at least in the Moreau arc eps. His arc is all about him thawing and becoming more open - I think he's going to have do so some bad bad stuff to take down the big bad and then have to deal with emotions he hasn't had to face since he put his defenses up OR he's going to have an "Unforgiven" Ned moment where he can't kill because of the thawing. After the mine ep, I'm betting on the kill.
As for the show not be realistic - It's an action caper show. It bends the rules, so parts of it - Eliot's superheroness, Hardison's superhackerness, etc. are just an integral part of the show's shtick. The show is going to go broad sometimes. That's just what it does. (But I still hate that mom who let the creepy fake IRS agent in!)
In today's paper, it stated that Massey has been cited for 20accidents/incidents that went unreported in the two years prior to the deadly explosion at the Upper Big Branch mine in April. Only four of the infractions were directly related to the explosion.
But don't worry. Massey says it's "reviewing" the information in order to determine why these infractions weren't reported. Uh huh. Weasels.
@Joe Helfrich: I usually post under Video Beagle, but since I was referencing Tyg's personal back story, I wanted him to know who it was. (And I belive you've met my beagle..only one the board who can claim that :-)
@Sue: Are you saying you wouldn't want to see an extra 20 minutes of the team prepping to do a job?
@Anon & Anon: You got it backwards... SHIELD is the top spy/Law Enforcement group in the world (see them in the Iron Man movies) while SWORD is a watch out for aliens, sorta like MiB with green hair and tight jump suits, group....ARMOR watches for incursions from other realities...
@whoever: As for Eliot and killing...seriously, go watch the Homecoming Job again...His first scene is dealing with a bunch of bodies it's pretty clear he just killed.
@Blaze: You'd be surprised how far you can get with a badge and the right attitude. Us Americans are programmed to obey authority without question.
@gwanggung: How romantic do you consider hookers in slave Leia outfits?
@whoever: Clearly it wasn't Sarah Palin...she didn't quit half way through the episode.
So where was the "mine" scene shot? Was the entrance constructed just for the show? The wife and I were arguing about what the place actually was, since there aren't many coal mines near Portland.
(And you could have avoided the "city folks rescuing the bumpkins" accusation by setting the episode in one of the coal mines in downtown Boston.)
Attention all Leverage fans (especially all those asking if and when Leverage Season 3 will stream thru instant Netflix like season 2 did): Not sure when this happened, but I know it was just in the last couple days, but Cablevision finally added TNT to their free on demand. It only offers the last (most recent) 4 eps that have aired, but hey, it's something! (especially if you don't have dvr.) It's the little things in life that make me happy:)
"Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
To that I'll add that the owner slugging Nate didn't make any sense. I could see him killing him to save air, but knocking him out seemed a bit odd. I' too, was surprised by their lack of hard hats.
Corey seemed like he was lying about his age to Eliot. I thought I detected a small beat there before he tells him "18". One thing that annoyed me....at the end, Eliot tells the vic to "take care of Corey for me". The vic knew Corey for years before Eliot came along, so I would assume he was already watchin' out for for Corey. And my husband wants to know, "how come every keyboard the team comes across has a USB port on it?"
Blackwell is referred to as the CEO in the beginning, but the way he talks about selling the mine, or using the payroll to pay for the mining process, he sounds like the owner.
@Video Beagle, if I get 20 extra minutes, I'd rather watch them doing the job. But, yeah, some of their prep would definitely be worth watching.
My issue was Blaze was the insistence that because we're not seeing all the prep, the characters obviously aren't doing all the prep.
Seriously, I could watch these people do almost anything for 60 minutes, 90 minutes or two hours. But I don't need to see them doing everything to believe that they're doing it.
I have no episode related question, but I do have two geeky fandom-related ones.
First--you do know that you would totally have a ball in the bar at Gallifrey One in LA in February (if you're not up in Portland), right? Like, as in CRAZY AMOUNTS OF AWESOME Who geeking type fun. Ask javi if you do not believe me--the man comes wearing his Fourth Doctor scarf, even. And there are toys you prolly do not yet own in the dealer's room... I'm just saying.
Secondly--Did you get the "Shell Game" discs okay? Sadly, all the FEED "Ryman For President" badges from Orbit vanished in a flash at SDCC, but I can send you the vector art if you want to ask the art department to make you one...
It was interesting to see that Parker, who is only an apprentice grifter right now and doesn't have much truck with human contact, is able to do a West Virginia accent accurate enough to fool native West Virginians on an ongoing basis. I assume this this because a) Sophie has been really good at teaching her how to do accents, and b) Parker is just really good at paying attention and picking things up.
I'm glad that in starting to move Parker beyond her little Asperger's-like area of comfort and expertise, you're also remembering to put in little scenes and dialog exchanges reminding us that Parker still doesn't look out the same window most of us do.
And if you're going to keep putting Beth in dresses like that, please have the SFX department dub in some periodic loud, sharp noises. I keep getting distracted and missing important plot points.
I'm a Leverage newbie, lovin' every minute, now obsessed with the show. I've watched S1 and the commentaries; I'm now working my way through S2.
As a newbie, the question that occurs to me most often is: how do clients find the team? Often it's clear that Nate or someone else on the team finds the clients, but other times, it seems like the clients have found Nate. How does that happen? I also wonder how the team escapes the reach of the law. Neither question bothers me much, 'casue this is a series for which suspending disbelief is called for. Ya just gotta accept the team and the clients find each other and that the law doesn't find the team.
BTW, I love the enthusiasm that emanates from the cast, the writers/directors/producers, and the fans. There's a connection among all, the Leverage extended family. Nice.
@Nomless: Haridson has a bunch of super tech word sounding searches that run, scanning news, court reports and so on. It seems more "Someone goes looking for help...and Leverage finds them"
They escape the law mainly by not getting caught. Hardison erases traces of their existence afterwards. And in S3, the Italian is keeping the feds off their backs.
***************** SO, the Zero issue of Roger's new D&D comic book is out..who's read it? I liked his story (the backup left some bits to be desired). I found myself trying to map the Leverage crew to the characters...it's not a great fit, yet, though...Elliot maps about 60% to one character..but Parker maps 100% to another.
@Nomless, it's never been explicitly said how clients find the team. The overall impression is that sometimes clients find the team, and sometimes the team finds clients. And, in one case, the client literally runs into the team. *g*
And Video Beagle's web crawler thing sounds as plausible as anything else.
@Aud Arrt, why shouldn't Eliot ask Clay to look out for Cory? The kid obviously touched a nerve with him, and, probably as much for his own peace of mind as anything else, he just wants to be certain Cory is okay. That doesn't mean he doesn't trust the miners or doesn't think they've done good job so far, he just wants to be sure. It's something people who care do, and Eliot is suddenly finding himself in the position of caring about others.
SO, the Zero issue of Roger's new D&D comic book is out..who's read it? I liked his story (the backup left some bits to be desired). I found myself trying to map the Leverage crew to the characters...it's not a great fit, yet, though...Elliot maps about 60% to one character..but Parker maps 100% to another.
If you're saying Bree = Parker, I don't think it's quite 100%. Bree is perfectly willing to walk away from crying children being sold into slavery. Parker wouldn't be. Also, Bree seems to be more of an extrovert.
I really liked the issue. I've been playing D&D since 1978, and gave it up with 4th edition, but I may find it a perfectly good milieu for stories even if I have no interest in playing in it.
This issue #0 did a very good job of introducing the characters and giving us an open-and-shut bit of action to prime the pump with. I'll definitely read on.
(And I know Tisha the Tiefling is supposed to be the designated hot totty of the group, but I have a crush on Bree. I've always had a thing for cute halfling chicks.)
adc: you're right. I was so jazzed by her looniness, I missed the subletites you got. Let's say Bree is 90% Parker.
@Sue I recall Rogers saying something about heuristic data searches, though I rather like Tyg's suggestion that Hardison has basicly hacked Google to pop up a web ad based on certain search criteria.
Mostly OT -- we've noted villain names like Hannity in Leverage, that cleared the legal screen but suggest real-life villains. Well, in this week's White Collar the Russian gangster was named Abramov, though I didn't see how it was spelled.
"Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
The purpose was to close the mine down so he didn’t have to pay the workers and could use the payroll money to finance the deal with Nate, since the AG wouldn’t give him the money.
@Piratecat said "Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
Also (my sister explained) if Blackwood blew up the mine and laid off all the miners, then with the technology he was being sold he could find the coltan even if the mine was gone. Plus, he didn't have to pay the workers, so he was saving money AND making money at the same time. At least, that's how I understood it.
===
Loved his episode to pieces, I really did. I too was trying to figure out if Cory (Corey?) was actually the kid of the dead miner lying about his age or not. I'm still waffling on the matter.
No real questions this time around, just a shout-out to the awesomeness of the Sophie-Parker big-sister-little-sister type scene, and all of Hardison and Eliot's interactions. Those are always my favorite parts because they always make me giggle.
I kind of wish there was more of the Italian/Moreau backstory interspersed in the episodes, especially the recent ones. It seemed like there was a lot of the Italian and whatnot at the beginning of the season, and now, I forget she even exists until I read the questions other people post where she's mentioned. I know that something big is planned with Moreau, but I'd still like reminders every now and then about the big bad the team has to find, or else Moreau's storyline is gonna just come out of nowhere for me. But maybe that's what you're planning, yes?
Okay, I lied, one quick question. Was Sophie's character this time around (can't remember her name) supposed to be some sort of sell-to-the-highest-bidder type character? She seemed to pull out her business card and tell the 'real' story to Blackwood awfully quick when she was caught. It just seemed a little odd to me how she didn't even pretend for a moment that she was a safety inspector, or deny it or something when she got caught, and just spilled everything about her technology and the coltan without even blinking.
Otherwise, great job with the episode, and I can't wait for the Rashomon Job. It looks intense.
@PirateCat: Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? I have no detailed knowledge of mining, but it is possible that Blackwell personally owns the land but has a corporation which licensed the mineral rights. If he blows up the mine, the corporation (and presumably its liabilities for those citations) goes away but the land remains. He then forms a new corporation to extract the coltan.
the owner slugging Nate didn't make any sense Unconscious people consume less air, and it could have been as a prelude to killing him. If nothing else, it shut "Gibson" up.
@Nomless: I also wonder how the team escapes the reach of the law. The law has a lot on its hands and can't spend the resources looking for everyone. If you don't attract its attention and aren't violent, it probably won't hunt you down.
@Murphy: She seemed to pull out her business card and tell the 'real' story to Blackwood awfully quick when she was caught. Well, she was caught and he was threatening her with arrest, which would have brought up her "real" name and company anyway.
@Murphy, she was definitely supposed to be a "highest bidder" character. They set up the first part of the scam (Nate and Sophie/Hardison going in back-to-back, Sophie and Hardison asking Blackwood's guy where they should eat lunch) so Blackwood would be there and "catch" her talking to Nate so that she could drop her mine inspector act and tell him about the coltan. Blackwood had to think she was willing to work with the highest bidder in order for him to trust her, oddly enough.
This one was great! I have only two questions . . . (1) Did Hardison have a backup plan for Nate's com link going down? Seemed like the ending was dependent on patching the com to the PR system. Or was the booster in place just for that eventuality? (I had assumed the booster was more universally useful to the team on this one, given how many of them were underground at various points.) and (2) Did Blackwell think his bomb had gone off when Hardison's mock-detonation occurred? or did Blackwell just think it was a small cave-in with the big explosion still to come?
RE: S.W.O.R.D and S.H.I.E.L.D, I'm pretty sure S.H.I.E.L.D. (Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directive) is the spy agency focusing on terrestrial matters and S.W.O.R.D. (Sentient World Observation and Response Department) is the one paying attention to aliens.
@ lily "This one was great! I have only two questions . . . (1) Did Hardison have a backup plan for Nate's com link going down? Seemed like the ending was dependent on patching the com to the PR system. Or was the booster in place just for that eventuality? (I had assumed the booster was more universally useful to the team on this one, given how many of them were underground at various points.)"
We saw Eliot planting boosters somewhere in Act Two I believe. And I'm not sure Hardison had a back up plan for Nate's com going off line. Perhaps Nate had a different recording device stashed away somewhere.
(2) "Did Blackwell think his bomb had gone off when Hardison's mock-detonation occurred? or did Blackwell just think it was a small cave-in with the big explosion still to come?"
I think it was supposed to be a minor cave-in. The bigger explosion would have been just that: Bigger. As in, the whole mine would have gone "boom" (as Eliot so hilariously put it).
Please help: In the original (non-flashback) scene where Hardison hugs Eliot saying, "For morale, man!" Eliot shoves him away, then Hardison says something else that I can't quite make out. Eliot walks away, but then points back at Hardison and smiles.
What did Hardison say and why did Eliot go from annoyed-frowny-face to cool-smiley-face?
It seems out of character for Eliot. Was that just a bit of Christian/Aldis end-of-scene playing around that just didn't get edited out?
(@Calla: I think Eliot pointing and smiling was at least partly a recognition that Hardison was referring to the "high five for morale" moments in the Gone Fishing Job.)
I kind of want to piggy-back on what ChelseaNH mentioned above about Eliot and a possible "there but for the grace of God" sentiment. At certain points earlier in the season some of Eliot's sympathize-with-the-vic moments have struck me as a little over-sentimental. But having seen this episode, now I wonder if in addition to the whole "oh we're the good guys now" thing having its effect on the team's consciences over the years, Eliot feels like he abandoned more than just Aimee when he enlisted (or whatever it was).
I don't mean anything really specific like "did Eliot have X or Y experience." I mean, rather, is he starting to feel anything like a prodigal son? Does he feel like his enlistment (or whatever) was somehow immature? Not in a general "joining the Army for adventure is silly" kind of way, but for him personally, as if maybe instead of liberating Croatia he should've found a way to fix problems closer to home.
Objectively speaking, I'd guess that for whatever reasons with which we're not familiar, if he'd stayed home he would not have in fact been in a position to exert the sort of power he can now. But that wouldn't necessarily make him feel better about "running away" (if that was indeed any part of his emotional motivation for taking up his line of work).
I guess what I'm trying to ask, in a really rambling way, is, would it be a stretch to suppose that the "thawing" of Eliot Spencer can be traced all the way back to Two-Horse? Despite the fact that being interrogated about the whereabouts of a monkey was a pretty legit reason not to have been in contact with Aimee, has he been wondering this whole time if her anger was not merely understandable but right in ways even she might not have known?
(Which may imply another question, especially since they also wrote Zanzibar Marketplace: In addition to writing a magnificent Parker, do the Wonder Twins lavish any particular care on Eliot's long term development?)
This is the first time I came back to a post to read after people asked the questions and I was shocked to find the whole controversy about the Palin/southern accents/etc etc. Sometimes it feels like people watch for things to offend them. As I am from the south, I didn't even notice the accents so obviously they weren't THAT off. And besides, we have people living in a section of our town that has their own accent different from ours as well as the next town over. There is not a 'universal' southern accent just like there is not a universal northern accent
Everyone needs to remember that Leverage is a fictional show for entertainment - not FoxNews or CNN.
John - thanks for putting up with all of us (including me with my repeated posts :P)
@Daisy Bookworm I don't agree with a lot of what you said about #5 but I'll just wait for John to answer my question :)
I seriously think Leverage has the best fans on the planet (been reading a lot of the comments). And may I say my own little pack of Grifters loved Sunday's ep. In fact, it was quite comical when my tv or cable glitched for a few seconds at several points in the show and we all gasped in unison with choruses of "Nooooo!" until picture was restored and sighs of relief were heard.
I have to say I love the baby steps you're taking with Parker while not underestimating her either (she is the world's greatest thief, after all, you learn or you get caught in that business). And this is a simply delicious look into how her mind works, which begs the question: Does she or will she have a Hardison notebook and would he be greatly disturbed or impressed by what he might find there? :P And would that mean Parker plans to steal his soul?
PS. If the writers(or any Cast or Crew, really) ever need Lackeys while they're in Portland next season, I have a little Pack of Grifters ready and willing to help, with a variety of(mostly geeky) skills. Pay-free as schedules permit. One's even a barista(/Jewelry maker/pastry chef/costumer, she does everything).
This occured to me on my second watch-through. The bug they planted in the AG's office, under the lamp...what happens to it? Does Parker have to somehow sneak back into the office and retrieve it before it's found? Does it self-combust? Or does Hardison just do his magic so it can never be traced to the team if it is found?
It just occured to me that the team plants all sorts of bugs in places, and someone eventually msut find one or two of them.
1) Just wanted to say that however unintentional the Sarah Palin comparisons were meant to be, Skagway, Alaska remains the childhood home of Palin and home of the one and only (to my knowledge) Sarah Palin store. I know because I just took a cruise there.
Why do I mention that? Because Sophie did when she talked about the Skagway shuffle.
I don't care about politics, so allusions to Palin, intended or not, didn't register that much, but I just found that amusing and wondered if your writing staff knew that when they wrote that line.
2) I'm so digging the mentoring scenes between Sophie and Parker this season. Definitely keep that up. I love how they're all growing.
I'm having so much fun with Leverage I almost can't stand it. Thank you for just plain awesome entertainment, and for walking that thin line between giving the fans what they want and pandering to them.
My one question for this episode is: What did Hardison say to Eliot just before he went into the mine that had him smile a genuine smile? I've played it back over and over and I can't figure it out. Thanks!
Donna, he said, "Go with God," grabbed Eliot's hand and pulled him into a hug. Then, when Eliot growled and pulled away, Hardison said, "For morale, man!" (a callback to Gone Fishin').
I don't know if it's too late to add a question here, but I noticed upon rewatching this that the scene where Hardison and Sophie went down to do the initial "dust readings", the score playing over that scene was from detroit hip hop group "Slum Village"'s song "Tainted".
Wondering if that's something that is done often and I JUST NOW picked up on it, or if there was any specific reason why that bit of music was chosen to do as a part of the score?
Hopefully, it's not too late to get answers on this one, I'll post some of them again later just to be on the safe side. Thanks a lot for doing this!
Lots of questions on this one - I'll separate them into chunks....
A)Purchase your own politician- This is another case where buying an politician is better than doing the actual work so I wanted to know if you could fill me in on the Attorney General vs Congressman comparison Which is... ....cheaper? ....more effective? (bang for your buck) ....more wrong/evil? ....more useful ....more likely to make Hardison throw up a little in his mouth?
B)Parker: Baby Grifter
Will Parker ever be the Fiddle?
Will Parker ever be the head of a con? (With Nathan or Sophie's help) We had a little taste of that in the Juror # 6 Job and The Inside Job - she brought them in but they were immediately handed over to Sophie or Nate. And she's come a long way in a grift perspective. Is it easier for her when the mark is female? C) Scary Sophie How do the marks miss the "You are digusting" tones i.e. Sophie's "You're going to make a lot of bucks" I know it's T.V. but she gave me chills. Do marks not have a sense of self-presevation? D)Eliot the Miner Why is it always Eliot who gets lost in the con (baseball, singing, coal mining?) Do you chose him on purpose or does it just happen organically?
260 comments:
1 – 200 of 260 Newer› Newest»Saw the preview. Looks like a good one. Have a good trip.
Paige
Well done on the conclusion of another season, with more to come. The gifted bottle was well-deserved! I have a bottle of 12 year old I brought home from Ireland pre liquids ban.
This one looks intriguing -- can you bring the bad guy down without making all the miners unemployed?
Pre-show comment: liking the new look for the blog!
Just a quick thank you for doing these. Love the new look, very chic. :-)
What are the names of the last four episodes for December?
Echoing what @Anonymous said. Loving the new look of the blog! So peaceful and soothing and zen-like.
Just a comment on the preview: Thanks for drawing attention to the recent (and unbelievable) Supreme Court decision which codified the selling of our government to the highest corporate bidder.
That still pisses me off …
Love this season so far. Have mananged to hook two more friends into watching it. For two episodes now Parker has mocked Eliot's pain such as being hit by a car and by a tire iron. If this was a novel, I would think this is foreshadowing some event where Parker regrets or is made to regret mocking him. Either he turns on her or really gets hurt. Close? or waaay out in left field?
@24jg13
On line I found out this about the remaining episodes: Underground Job (tonight) - 310; Rashomon Job - 311; King George Job - 312; Morning After Job - 313; Ho, Ho, Ho Job - 314; Big Bang Job – 315; & San Lorenzo Job 316
According to Dean Devlin’s tweet August 14th, there are: “FOUR more #Leverage episodes to air this summer. Three in winter”.
Dawn/StL-MO
Uh, guys? The Palin parody? Completely lame. Now, give us a parody of a First Lady who spends like a drunken sailor in the middle of a recession . . . then you'd REALLY have something funny.
As a new fan, I usually like your show, but it might behoove you to remember that your audience isn't 100 percent liberal. Just every once in a while, you know. As a novelty. :-)
I loved seeing the return of Bob Gibson!
A "Palin parody"?? I don't think this was aimed at Palin any more than "Three Days of the Hunter" was aimed at any certain news commentator.....you know - painting with broad stokes...
Uh-huh. The hair, the red jacket, the carefully reworked reference to the old "lipstick on a pig" jibe . . . that's not accidental. I've been studying the interaction of politics and culture far too long not to know what I'm seeing.
The powers-that-be on the show have a perfect right to their political opinions. But I would think that it would be best to keep things on an "any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental" basis. Why go out of your way to offend part of your audience if you're not actually making an explicitly political show?
Have to say, the ep was great, but I wasn't crazy about most of it being everyone on their own. I did love the Parker/Sophie scenes - love them together! But I will say, next weeks looks f***ing awesome! Looks very much like "Clue", the butler explaining it all. Great job as always - Best show ever!!!
Great ep, as always.
Found a continuity glitch tho, in the very last scene when Eliot follows Nate out of the trailer, and then on the other side Nate follows Eliot.--So, am I hired as the goof checker? haha.
So here are my questions: The mine was supposedly filled with methane, or pockets of. Why didn't the entire mine blow when the first explosion went off?-and-Why didn't Eliot seem to notice it when it DID blow?
I thought the "sounds like they were working out" comment was great but Is Parker really that naive about sex or is Parker just not a noise girl?
@Gina - There are a lot of "close resemblances" to big time politicians, CEOs, journalists, etc. - that's kind of the point - they even say in the commentaries that most of the stories are based on actual news events and the characters are 'inspired' by real people. To watch and enjoy a TV show, you should remember this - peoples political views and general opinions are going to vary - we don't have to agree with what they are saying/thinking/doing to be entertained, and if you are offended, just change the channel. The characters on this show aren't written to be impartial, they are meant to be like real people, and yes, they mostly seem to fall towards the left and are going to represent that in their words and actions, that's what makes them interesting. The writers shouldn't have to change that dimension of these people because it offends you. Lighten up - it's a fictional television show.
I see nobody has mentioned the double-barrelled "Sarah Connor Chronicles" shout-out: both Bruce Davison and the mention of coltan!
As if I needed another reason to worship at your feet, Rogers....
Gina, I have no idea if that was a "Palin parody" or not. My question is, why are you so upset about it? If it were a parody,that's the price you pay for being a public figure. You take some hits. Like your First Lady comment, I'm sure there are posters on here who disagree with it,but they're not gonna let it upset them. It's not that serious.
I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it, but thank you all for your concern. :-) I just thought it was a point worth making, so I made it.
Indeed. You could also say she resembled Hillary Clinton, Mary Landrieu, John Edwards or any other politician with an accent. I mean, it's not like Palin is widely known for inventing homespun sayings regarding pigs, is it?
An observation: Of the entire team, I think Elliot is the most empathetic. Sophie's too much of a princess to really connect with the every-man, Parker & Hardison both had untraditional upbringings so they don't so much either. And Nate's just a bastard - yeah, he understands the true evils they're facing, but he doesn't really *feel* for the clients as much. But Elliot has the all-American, good ol' boy vibe. He always seems to be the one to feel for the people they're helping, despite being a pretty cold-blooded dude. He's such a great character, and ya'll have done an incredible job developing him into more than just a meathead. We're starting to see some of this same development in Parker, with a bit of a shift towards empathy, but not so much in Sophie or Hardison - I anticipate some interesting turns when we go down their roads!
@Gina, I think we can agree that the writing team does a good job of villainizing the whole spectrum of the social hierarchy, no? Hence, everyone gets their turn, even the Conservatives.
@J.J., Being a thief, silence is a virtue... Parker's probably not a screamer OR a moaner. ;-)
I'll have to watch it again, but did Nate say Eliot looked like one of the Village People? :)
Nice new layout for the blog!
My mom and I were just wondering if there were any interviews done with the families of victims of mining accidents when this episode was being written.
And is there any chance that Cory might come back?
Did Parker sleeping in Hardisons van signify a growing comfort level/relationship or am I reading to much into it?
@Gina, it wasn't a parody of palin in any sense of the term. They weren't making fun of Sarah Palin's Jerry Springer-esque family, nor her tenuous grasp of the english language. If it had been a Palin parody, Peirce would've quit half way through the episode to milk money from cargo cultist teabaggers.
The character was probably inspired by Palin's well documented embezzlement. If that offends you, perhaps you shouldn't throw your support behind pundits who fleeced their home state for personal gain while acting as public servants.
Hope that helps!
Oh and @workworkwork, coltan is not a reference to anything. It's very real, and very necessary for all kinds of small electronics. There's conflict coltan in every one of your forced-obsolescent iphones, and it's mined by children at gunpoint in the Libertarian paradise of the Congo.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/blood-coltan/
Hey hey, keep it CIVIL in here.
And to nip this in the bud right now, it's not Palin. The AG's based on a certain type of professional political woman of the South, and it's just that that accent has weird resonance with that Alaskan accent. The uptight hyper-competent law-and-order persona doesn't even fit Palin's public persona or governing style.
You guys - you do some of the best slimey super villainy villains. Bruce Davison and the woman (whose name I don't know) were good bad guys. Davison's little speech in the mine was excellent.
Also, loved Parker's list - HYSTERICAL. Her scenes with Sophie were very good all the way around.
But, is it just me or did we lose some footage there at the end? The promo shots from TNT seemed to show Nate talking with Hardison right after he got out of the mine, and also Nate talking with Sophie at the end. If so, what did we miss?
I'm hoping for some more development of the Nate-Hardison dynamic and Nate-Sophie dynamic. Will we get some more of those this season?
Also, I feel like I can see everyone's character arc in place except Sophie's. She's been more forceful and less of a victim with Nate, but that hasn't been emphasized as much as Parker's and Hardison's maturation, Nate's hardening and Eliot's thawing.
I'm assuming we'll have a better idea of her character arc after 312but that seems so late in the season. Is there a particular reason that the Sophie-centric episode is happening that close to the end? (Other than "we may show her real name and didn't want to do it early on.")
Jenn-Ann - I'm not sure I'd say Nate doesn't feel for the victims. He was the one who forced the team to help others in the first place, and especially in Seasons 1 and 2, you see many moments of him connecting to either the client or other victims of the mark. I think empathy was one of his biggest motivators, along with vengeance.
That said, Nate's reasons for doing what he's doing do seem to be getting a bit more complicated, and they are doing a nice job with Eliot going the other direction. I was frankly a little put off by Eliot in the first 2-3 episodes, because he seemed the least developed and most caricature-ish, but they've definitely taken some time to show some layers, which is nice.
Thank you, Rogers, for clearing that up. I was all freaked out because she happened to look A LOT like my state's previous attorney general!
Another great episode! Just started watching Leverage over the past month or so and it's become one of my favorite shows. From the writing, acting, dvd commentaries, blog, tweets and pics everything's outstanding. You guys make it fun to be a fan. Looking forward to the last few episodes.
Thanks for all of the time, energy and passion you invest in giving us such a great show. Hope you treat yourself to a well deserved vacation.
Hmm, would I be correct in my suspicion that Eliot has more than a passing familiarity with mines? And that his empathy for Cory came from experience? It really seemed to hit a nerve with him when Cory talked about having to be the man of the house, and then mentioned his mother and sister.
And yay for the return of "Bob Gibson." I do love to see familiar identities recycled. ;-)
Loved Parker's "I'm a grifter. I grift," and Sophie's faintly horrified expression. *g* Actually, I love the whole pupil/mentor vibe between S&P in this ep (and this season, really). They're giving us some wonderful character moments. Where the guys still look at Parker as if she's crazy (which … okay *g*), Sophie really seems to take her where she's at and just go with it. Sophie might be a princess, but she's a princess with a heart. ;-)
Also, Aldis and Kane continue to make me snicker. Loved Eliot's impatience with the technobabble, Hardison's mournful, "I thought we were making progress," and the callback to the "high five for morale." Not to mention Eliot's "BOOM!" Oh, boys!
As for Nate, I've seen a few references on Twitter to his being a bastard, but I didn't really see that tonight. He actually seemed quite human. *g* And he seriously needs to wear a bowtie more often. ;-)
And, finally (for now *g*) … lemme get this straight. Showing a crooked female politician is automatically taken as being a jab at Palin? Wow, my radar must be off. I mean, I'm as willing as the next commie/fascist/hippie to mock Caribou Barbie, and I didn't make that connection. I just took it as another swipe at corrupt pols in general … whom this week we'll put in a skirt.
Then again, I'm from Texas, so venal politicians in need of mockery are just part of the scenery to me.
Oh, btw, does Parker keep a notebook on the crew? ;-)
Love the new look!
Loved the episode. Especially loved Eliot in this one but boy, was he cranky. That boy has a short fuse.
Loved the Sophie/Parker interaction, as well.
The only question I seem to have is one I am utterly unable to stop myself from asking:
Has Parker ever had sex????
Why did you guys choose yet another "what these country bumpkins need are some city folk" setup?
Did a Nate/Sophie scene towards the end got cut? I saw a production still that made me believe we'd get a nice N/S scene at the end when Nate got out of the mine. Why are you deleting Nate/Sophie scenes lately? The same happened in The Three Card Monte Job. There are hardly any Nate/Sophie scenes as it is this season. You're making this fan very unhappy. Whhhhyyyyy?
Are we ever going to be able to see all those deleted Nate/Sophie scenes from the Three Card Monte Job and The Underground Job?
he AG's based on a certain type of professional political woman of the South, and it's just that that accent has weird resonance with that Alaskan accent.
If Palin's taking any role models from anywhere, isn't that where she'd be taking some cues anyway? That is, any advisors she'd be getting that have experience would be drawn from Southern Republicans, i think. So any resemblance would be drawn from common sources.
Great ep as usual Rogers. Damn, I am loving this season.
Gina?? WTF??? The Atty General reminded you of Palin? A strong, intelligent, greedy,educated, promiscuous southern female politician reminded you of Mrs QuitterWordSalad? HUH?
Seriously, the mine owner was a complete "ripped from the headlines" view of Massey Energy and Don Blankenship. The Attorney General was also in the news. Blankenship bought a judicial election in W.Va. and spent a bucket-load to get that judge, who promptly ruled FOR Massey Energy in some case. And the supreme court said that was OK (conflict of interest and all). And then just this year SCOtUS ruled on Citizen's United that any amount of money from any source, even a secret one, was ok if it went to an election.So what Leverage showed tonight was the cleanest, nicest version of reality, not the real, true, ugly, horrendous and offensive version that actually exists. Remember Rogers wants us all on the fun train. Let's call it the 'Manifest Destiny' of our times.
How the hell you get Palin out of any of that I do not know. Did she say "also, too."? No. Are most American women brunette? Is every brunette with long hair and bangs Sarah Palin?? Fuck no! Or, I'm Sarah Palin, and I can assure you I am not. Did she wear glasses? Did she sound like a confused idiot when speaking? Was she competent at her job? Seriously, your offended fee-fees say much, much more about you than they do about the politics of any of the writers in John Rogers staff room. GTFOYS. Your paranoia and angst is just too cute for words.
Rogers, seriously, my only problem with the fun train this season? Memphis is rock and blues and R&B, gospel and yes some country(hello Johnny Cash)and rockabilly. We're also the "Dirty South" in re rap and hiphop and stuff. But country music is the least of my citys claim to fame. Hell we even have some great reggae, look to Utube for Toots Mayall when he was here. And it irks the hell out of me that you guys did the one fanfic episode I was imagining in my city, but did it before I wrote it and did it in the wrong music genre. C'est la vie. And I do realize you basically had to write it to boost your TNT sistah show "Memphis Beat" and they also (unknowingly) did a country music ep. It's just irksome. I had so seen Christian singing the blues. (sigh) Because if anyone knows the blues, it's a damned Okie.
Boomer Sooner! And all that.
And for Gina.......)
Also, too.
(See, now I am making fun of Sarah Palin.)
Great ep as usual Rogers. Damn, I am loving this season.
Gina?? WTF??? The Atty General reminded you of Palin? A strong, intelligent, greedy,educated, promiscuous southern female politician reminded you of Mrs QuitterWordSalad? HUH?
Seriously, the mine owner was a complete "ripped from the headlines" view of Massey Energy and Don Blankenship. The Attorney General was also in the news. Blankenship bought a judicial election in W.Va. and spent a bucket-load to get that judge, who promptly ruled FOR Massey Energy in some case. And the supreme court said that was OK (conflict of interest and all). And then just this year SCOtUS ruled on Citizen's United that any amount of money from any source, even a secret one, was ok if it went to an election.So what Leverage showed tonight was the cleanest, nicest version of reality, not the real, true, ugly, horrendous and offensive version that actually exists. Remember Rogers wants us all on the fun train. Let's call it the 'Manifest Destiny' of our times.
How the hell you get Palin out of any of that I do not know. Did she say "also, too."? No. Are most American women brunette? Is every brunette with long hair and bangs Sarah Palin?? Fuck no! Or, I'm Sarah Palin, and I can assure you I am not. Did she wear glasses? Did she sound like a confused idiot when speaking? Was she competent at her job? Seriously, your offended fee-fees say much, much more about you than they do about the politics of any of the writers in John Rogers staff room. GTFOYS. Your paranoia and angst is just too cute for words.
Rogers, seriously, my only problem with the fun train this season? Memphis is rock and blues and R&B, gospel and yes some country(hello Johnny Cash)and rockabilly. We're also the "Dirty South" in re rap and hiphop and stuff. But country music is the least of my citys claim to fame. Hell we even have some great reggae, look to Utube for Toots Mayall when he was here. And it irks the hell out of me that you guys did the one fanfic episode I was imagining in my city, but did it before I wrote it and did it in the wrong music genre. C'est la vie. And I do realize you basically had to write it to boost your TNT sistah show "Memphis Beat" and they also (unknowingly) did a country music ep. It's just irksome. I had so seen Christian singing the blues. (sigh) Because if anyone knows the blues, it's a damned Okie.
Boomer Sooner! And all that.
And for Gina.......)
Also, too.
(See, now I am making fun of Sarah Palin.)
I have to say Your Blog is my second favorite thing about Sunday nights!
As for the episode - nicely done.
Pick-axes at 10 paces - awesome. Nate in the unexpected explosion - NO! Blackwell knocking Nate out cold - Oh No! Parker and the blue & black pens - she separates the food items on her dinner plate, too, doesn't she?
The BEST part was that you CONNED us. Hardison rigged the explosion - I did NOT guess that! I love that you did that - totally believable that he could and would do that, but just completely unexpected.
My only problem with the ep is Nate yelling at Parker: not that he yells to get her moving, but that he yells right outside Blackwell's office door - even if the mine compound is noisy (which is clearly why Nate had to raise his voice), he was still so close to Blackwell's trailer office that Blackwell should have heard him. Tiny point, in an otherwise Top 10 episode!
Oh, and congrats on a good wrap and I'm so glad to hear we're getting another season!
People who know about leverage are now rich.
@ Roy: "Why did you guys choose yet another "what these country bumpkins need are some city folk" setup?"
Having lived for almost a decade in a small coal mining town, I have to disagree with this assertion. Coal jobs are some of the highest paying jobs in many towns where it is prevalent and the coal companies definitely use tactics to scare workers from causing waves. This ep's client knew that no safety improvements were made. Who is he going to go to in a small town? Let's say he found someone willing to stick their neck out for him - he'd still lose his job and the livelihood for his family. And with a situation involving a mine, generally, there is a fear that those jobs will disappear if the town is perceived as 'too much trouble.' I think you may be referring to "The Tap Out Job". Again, that was a family that had no one to turn to in a small town. Personally, I found the need to go to an "outsider" completely plausible in both situations. Our crew just happen to be stationed in a city. I also think Eliot's compassion and respect toward those in both of these settings underlines that the writers aren't intending for the audience to view them as stupid "country bumpkins."
I must admit, I was a little anxious about this ep because of the coal theme given its importance to my state and, very personally, friends' families. But, I enjoyed it as I have the rest of the season. Many thanks, again, for hosting this weekly conversation and wading through to answer the questions.
@Lee Ann, I think @Roy is just pulling my leg re: "these people need a honky" post from #304.
You're not really trying this season with Nate and Sophie, are you? I mean, last season Sophie was gone but then we got that fabulous kiss. I was looking forward to see more of the sexual tension after THAT kiss, looked so promising. Okay, we got a couple of moments early in the season but now you've totally abandoned them, the romance between them. This season should've built on that kiss. Such a shame and a missed opportunity after the kiss. Almost too late but is there anything coming up for them at all?
Please tell me that you'll work into another episode all of Parker's "notes" she has on each member of the team. That would be hilarious.
I'm also wondering how in the hell Parker didn't realize that they were having sex. She's not a virgin, is she? :O I mean, even if she is, most people would still recognize what those sounds were. Haha.
Please Mr. Rogers, refresh Methane 101 for me.
From what I remember, methane in a mine is dangerous because it makes the oxygen disappear somehow (sorry, out sick that day).
In the olden days miners used a lit candle or lantern and if those went out, it meant the oxygen was running out, too. Which was bad news.
Now, from what I gathered from the episode, methane is also highly explosive.
Q:Why were there lit lanterns in the abandoned, unsafe, supposedly methane filled shaft where Nate and Blackwell were stuck?
Q:Shouldn't Blackwell have thought to blow those lanterns out, saving oxygen and decreasing the risk of an explosion?
There were lit lanterns all over the mine in addition to the electric lights. It sure looked cosy, but am I right in suspecting that lanterns are TV shorthand for 'old and unsafe mine'?
Yeah, I was joking about the "bumpkin" thing. If I had known someone was gonna get legit upset about it I wouldn'ta done it. Sorry.
One minor hitch in the fun train; I got the impression that the miner came to the team, not them finding out about the problem and contacting him. So now random folk from small, usually socially isolated, backwoods towns 500 or so miles away known about the Leverage crew and how to contact 'em? These guys are almost as easy to find as the A-Team! : -)
I enjoyed Haridson saying "Now you're just making stuff up" LOL. Of course, being a parker fan, all things the writers and beth does with parker.
I didn't see it in the comments yet (sorry if blind), but I don't understand how the AG knew sophie was tricking her. One moment she's stunned that "sophie" is sleeping with her man and taking the pac money out (away from blackwell) and next she's telling sophie she's on to her and cancelling the transaction and threating to send her to jail.
It obviously was a nasty portrayal of a person who had to be meant to remind one strongly of Sarah Palin. And that is a cheap shot. I would hope for better from the staff of Leverage. It is most likely intended as sub lineal reinforcement of the liberal point of view. If liberal can’t be up front and honest in their attempts to influence society it shows that they are dealing in an underhanded sort of way so whose the problem and cannot be intrinsically trusted.
Also, I do not like Nate’s talks about the rich and powerful all being evil at the beginning of each show. That is not fair and reinforces the liberal divide and conquer platform demonizing all people who have made wealth. It would be fine if he said there are the rich and powerful who....
Also, the liberals who post on this thread are obviously hateful regarding Sarah Palin which doesn’t reflect badly on her but rather on them.
Nothing in this world is perfect, though, and for the time being I will continue to watch Leverage because it is a great show, but if they infringe on my sensibilities much more the show will be a thing of my past.
@tyg : He used the google to find them!n You of all people should know you can find anything on that,
The mine salting is the right idea, but most people checking the wall (of the mine) for minerals would dig into the wall. So the bad guys would use a shotgun to fire the minerals into the wall.
Eliot doesn't mind getting dirty, literally, a good trait!
Does Parker keep a notebook on the other members of the team?
I think the somewhat scary idea is that she does now. To help her do the con, Sophie told her to apply her insanely-focused intelligence and powers of observation to figure out people the way she figures out security systems. Apparently Parker never thought of doing that before, and the last scene with H&P suggests that Sophie has now created a monster...
Rogers, please convince Beth to do a Maxim photo shoot. She has always looked beautiful but this season she looks radiant.
@notapatsy: Hey, we stole an election for a Kenyan-born, socialist-commie-fascist-atheist-Muslim. How much more upfront with our efforts can we be???
@notapatsy: Awe, sweetie, relax. If you're really feeling persecuted, you could go back to the "Three Days of the Hunter Job" when they took on the (I think) liberal media.
Besides, it's not like a team of writers could really have some subversive plot, brilliantly executed and only distinguishable through flashbacks, to push their own agenda... oh, wait...
@ Roy: "Yeah, I was joking about the "bumpkin" thing. If I had known someone was gonna get legit upset about it I wouldn'ta done it. Sorry."
Not upset (goodness - it's a TV show we're ultimately discussing). Didn't realize it was a joke...I follow the blog discussion enough to see the posts of people who legitimately ask such a question (like the one Rogers mentioned), but not enough to know the posters who would just be joking. Sorry you thought I was upset with ya (and for taking it too seriously) *embarrassed blush*
Eliot sure was irritable in this one.
Another fun ep! Thanks so much for continuing to bring the fun train. And while an annoyed Elliot is funny, I'm also glad to see he's just tugging Hardison's chain sometimes.
Also -- while I appreciate the new face of the blog on my computer, this morning it didn't work very well on my phone (Android.) I suspect it needs to be better optimized for mobile.
Another great episode. Kudos to the behind the scenes folks. We don't give y'all enough credit you know, being blinded by the pretty ones and all...
1. Loved having Tim bring back the Gibson character. I would really love to have you bring back his Karl Lagerfeld impersonation, though I have no clue how you would fit that in.
2. I really appreciated how Parker has to equate grifting to be 'stealing souls' just to fit into her frame of reference.
3. Was really shocked that Eliot actually swung a killing blow in the mine fight scene. I don't think we've ever seen him actually try to kill anyone before. He usually just goes for the knockout. Kinda disturbing, but wholly sexy. I know, I'm sick.
Love Leverage. FWIW definitely did not think the AG was a Palin reference, but I spend a lot of time watching politicians.
My real question is not so much this ep but the Portland locations. Is that building shown behind the opening titles a real building in Portland or elsewhere -- if so, where? -- or is is a "constructed" image?
Thanks
@Gina The only resemblance I saw to Palin was the the big hair and egocentricity. Palin isn't nearly that bright, articulate and competent. Quite the opposite in fact. I thought Pierce was more of an eviled-up Hillary/Pelosi ballbreaker type.
Cory was turning 14, then two years later he was 18.
At first I thought, why is Sophie playing the inspector and sending Parker to the AG? Seems like the attorney general's assistant requires more finesse.
But then of course Sophie's role required a character pretending to be another character, and then when the con went south she had to improvise with the AG.
Parker does a good accent.
So there are no actual questions here. Anyhow, fun episode.
Ohhhh he lied about his age so he doesn't get in trouble. Yeah I'm kind of slow today. Okay now I'll stop cluttering up the comments.
Ohhhh he lied about his age so he doesn't get in trouble. Yeah I'm kind of slow today. Okay now I'll stop cluttering up the comments.
Another fantastic episode! I don't know how you guys do it, but keep it up :)
I PROMISE not to infer anything specific about Eliot's background/family based on his response to Cory, because I know how you hate that. (Unless...I'm supposed to? This one time? Dammit!) I just have to say that their interaction was lovely, and the actors deserve a lot of credit for making it feel natural.
Wow, I did not get a Palin vibe AT ALL from the AG. I honestly don't get how people are making that connection. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't take on a certain rogue ex-governor in a future episode...
Eliot's fights are usually brutal, but it genuinely surprised me when he swung that pickaxe right at the evil henchman's head - that definitely would have been a fatal blow if it had landed. And we know that nothing pisses Eliot off more than those who hurt or take advantage of the people they're supposed to protect. So, Question 1) Obviously if Eliot really wanted the guy dead, he'd be dead - but would it be safe to say that at that moment he didn't *care* much if the guy took a terminal pickaxe to the skull? Or was it just a very cool-looking move with no particular deeper meaning?
And 2) If the mine was basically a death trap, how could the team risk even that small explosion? Was "Section C" supposed to be a little more stable than the rest of the mine?
Tip-off: I knew there was no way a perfect confession like that was going to go to waste. And of course a real mine explosion wouldn't have left so many people free to walk around.
Best moment: Hardison's reaction to geezer sex.
@Kevin:I don't understand how the AG knew sophie was tricking her.
"Knew" or "believed"? She certainly had reason to think badly of Sophie.
One last question (well, maybe the last). Has anyone ever addressed the question of why the seasons are split? I really dislike it and would like to know if there is actually some sort of logic behind it. KTHXBAI.
No actual questions, just that the ending warmed the cockles of my heart :)
Having just deleted three paragraphs wherein I ranted about the villainy of Don Blankenship and various other elements of the coal industry, lol, I'd just like to thank the Leveragers for their sympathetic treatment of the people involved. This is the first "con" that hit close to home and I was a little leery.
I have a question concerning the "group gloat"...isn't it smarter *not* to let the mark know who took him? If it's to protect the client by diverting attention, how difficult would it be for the villain to follow the paper trail? Does Hardison erase all records of the client's travel to Boston or phone records, etc? I know that it's a popular element of the show. It just seems kinda cocky and the sort of thing that could turn around and bite a grifter in the ass.
John, we are concerned about the Southern accents on your show. They are BAD, and the show is SO GOOD. Who is vetting these? They need work. The Studio Job and now The Underground Job have both included unfortunate accent work. What can we do to help?
@Stacy -- isn't season-splitting something that most cable networks do? USA does, I know. Irritating, but they seem to think it's the best way, for whatever reason.
@Jen_Ann_W -- Nate is SO not a bastard! He's awesome!!
@Various -- man, some of you don't read very carefully. I explained exactly why I thought the character was a jab at Palin. My second comment on here was as specific as I could possibly make it. (Incidentally, I talked to someone last night who had recognized the visual resemblances before I did, just from having seen the promo pictures before watching the episode.) If you're still clamoring to know why I thought it was a Palin parody, though not by means a good one, that's your misunderstanding.
Correction: Not by ANY means a good one.
The Wonder Twins managed to pack a whole lot into that hour of television. Excellent job. However, you need to stop making me stay up so late on a 'school' night in order to watch the repeat performance. Thanks again for answering questions here. It's really what makes multiple viewings a necessity for me.
Now for this week's: Why did the scene with Nate getting whacked on the head get shown twice? That would have potentially allowed time for the 'missing' scenes. Just how big is 'Lucille II'?
We know that Hardison makes costumes and gadgets on his weekends, and Parker scouts out banks and other potential targets' alarm systems and security measures. So what do Nate, Sophie and Eliot do on their weekends?
@Gina so is a Palin parody that's not by any means a good Palin parody and done by a character that's not meant to be Palin and doesn't share any of her personal qualities or professional similarities except hair still a Palin parody?
We're in deep eschatological territory here. :P
This is, of course, even sillier because the character was a man for a good chunk of breaking the story. We didn't go female until late in the development, and that was because we realized we had a chance to do another rare female villain, and one that fit a certain type of Southern (and as noted, probably Democratic) politician.
We will definitely address this on the blog, however, as it splits off into three or four distinct and interesting questions, not the least of which being "Would making fun of Sarah Palin be the same as making fun of conservatives?" So good post.
@Scav: Now you've got me picturing Hardison spending some of his precious weekend time doing Search Engine Optimization on a (hmm, what do they call themselves other than the generic "crew") Leverage webpage that only shows up when just the right search terms are entered. That and writing carefully composed text ads that again are associated only with just the right terms...
Different tack. Does Hardison have any friends? I could be misremembering, but we've seen Nate's ex-wife, former work buddy Sterling, old friend who became a priest, Parker's mentor, Sophie's whatever connection to Tara, and folk from Elliot's past. But I don't think we've seen anyone who Hardison knew pre-Leverage other than Chaos, who hardly counts in the same way. Still think he and Parker should be hanging out at MIT a lot.
This episode kinda made me sad, because when all was said, and the con was done, the coal miners were still coal miners, and that's a crap job, no matter how theoretically "safe" you make it.
BTW the West Virginia accents were bad pretty much wall-to-wall. And Nate seemed to be doing a lot more Jimmy Papadokalis than Bob Gibson in his Bob Gibson this ep.
That said, Parker on the grift was delightful, and iritated Eliot never gets old.
It's getting nice and weird on the TNT board. They get that a red suit and big hair do not a Palin make, particularly absent glasses (although the woman couldn't be a bigger target if she painted a bulls-eye on her back!)
However, one or two have decided there was a homo-erotic vibe between Cory and Eliot, probably because of Nate's Village People reference. The mind reels.
Speaking of which, did Eliot realize Cory was lying about his age, and was only 16? I found myself wondering if this didn't resonate with Eliot to some degree because he'd done something similar back when he was 16 or 17, probably to join whatever group started him on the path to where we find him now.
Lovin' the new blog theme, it looks great!
I admit I was looking forward to this episode a little more so than the previous ones (except the Studio Job) because though I'm from the West Coast, I know quite a few families affected by mining - coal and lead. Very well done! That being said, the only thing that bothered me about the episode was Nate speaking so loudly when Blackwood could possibly hear him. Outside the office when he's asking Parker if she's in position and then again at the café when Sophie walks in. You'd think with Blackwood sitting so close in the corner, Nate would wait until Sophie was sitting down next to him before asking if they bought the fake inspection.
* Parker's asking about the Fiddle Game and Eliot's reaction - priceless.
* The Eliot and Hardison scene with the devices that Hardison made (I can't remember what they were called!) was freaking hilarious! I've said it a million times, but those two are comedic gold. "I thought we was makin' progress!"
* Love Parker's grifting! Beth does a mean southern accent!
* Liked how Nate and Eliot were color-coordinated with the blue bowtie and Eliot's blue shirt and blue bandanna.
* The return of the "For morale, man!"!! Eliot's reaction to the man-hug thing was comical.
* Ah, the good ol' recording the com trick!
* A huge "Awww!" at Eliot's speech to Cory at the end. Absolutely loved the look on his face when Cory hugged him. I love how Eliot's heart is getting a little bigger, though it's probably going to come back and bite him on the ass...
* Parker's notekeeping...I really hope this comes back in a future episode!
Questions!
1) Any significance to Eliot wearing a white shirt at the beginning of the episode? After watching Lost, you start noticing stuff like that... 2) During the briefing, why Sophie is twisting/playing with the ring on her finger? Some kind of nervous habit? 3)When Blackwell is sitting in corner of the corner watching Nate and Sophie, there's a guy sitting next to the coffee machine with is back to the camera who looks a lot like Eliot, who is supposed to be down in the mine. Is it really Christian sitting there because no one can see his face, or just an extra?
Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedule to listen to crazy fangirls and boys!
Okay guys, I don't really care who they base the characters on, as long as the team wins and the bad guys pay. YOu all are taking this a little too serious, the whole point of the fun train is to sit back and enjoy the ride.
I discovered your awesome show about a month ago. I spent the weekend watching the Season 1 DVD + the commentary and the first two episodes and commentary of Season 2. I'm now officially obsessed with this series, freakin' obsessed, I tell you.
"Smells like bubbles" - I loved that comment.
Again, I enjoyed Bob Gibson coming back but I think I liked his hats better than the goofy bow ties (for a second I thought he was channeling both Bob Gibson and the professor dude from "The Fairy Godparents Job").....still I read the other posts and the bow ties turned on someone else so to each their own!
One last thing on Palin-not Palin - if it had been a parody, Tina Fey would have showed up! (wink)
wv: readin - before writin' and 'rithmatic
So ...
1) We have diamond mines and coal mines that resonate w/ Eliot.
More background that we're supposed to connect or purely coincidental?
2) Hardison grew up in foster care w/ 'Nana' (will she ever be referenced again? She kind of fell off the planet after s1) and no mention of any kind of father figure. Looks like he finally got his dose of "walking in on his parents" that he may have missed...
3) Suppose ParHardikerson, SoParphiker and HarEldisoniot each took on the Mof's SherWatlockson in a dark alley, who would win? Or would FoSterdling swoop in and claim victory?
@Lydia: You'd think with Blackwood sitting so close in the corner, Nate would wait until Sophie was sitting down next to him before asking if they bought the fake inspection.
I think Blackwood was supposed to overhear Nate and Sophie about the fake inspection. That was how they hooked him. He realized Sophie wasn't an inspector, but someone pretending to be one just to get a look at his mine. Remember how fast she whipped out a business card with her "real" (fake) name?
Damn it Galloway, you stole my question. And Scav too? It's like a racx reunion in here...
But yes, the team certainly seems to be getting a rep, and with more and more strangers coming to them from farther and farther away, isn't it just a matter of time before someone tracks them down? Or is that how we find out more about Eliot?
Hm....Palin or not Palin....
a) Was party affiliation mentioned on the show? A Democrat candidate certainly lessens the resemblance.
b) On the other hand, it's not unknown for local candidate to strengthen their own resemblance to a national figure like Palin.
c) On the third hand, Rogers, you should have left the character male. AND kept the sex scene. That would have made it more specific for Republican politicians.
Damn it Galloway, you stole my question. And Scav too? It's like a racx reunion in here... .
Yes. Yes, it is....
Eliot's mining background
Don't we know that Eliot grew up in the horse country of Kentucky, which is not all that far from the coal mining country of Kentucky?
I agree that it's very likely that Eliot, like Michael Westen, lied about his age to join the military. (AFAIK the CIA, etc., do not recruit straight out of high school.)
Eliot seemed particularly agitated in this episode (mostly at Hardison). Is this indicative of the fact that his past is catching up with him faster than anticipated, or is there something else going on?
LOVED this episode, by the by. The L-Team always gives me a grin a mile wide.
"smells like bubbles" reminded me of Spike's "I'm drowning in footwear" line on Buffy.
This episode was really good. I want to know where the exterior of the mine scenes were shot. AND were the big digs roaming around in the final scene actual mining equipment or just what was 'around'? (Big Digs is what my nephew called all large yellow self-propelled machinery. Is there a better name for it?)
Someone mentioned Eliot's dislike of mines (sorry I'm not going to go searching for who), but I think it's slightly different than "He hates mines."
I think it's more Eliot hates unsafe mines. The show and CK have been pretty clear that Eliot doesn't like it when the working man is stomped on and he REALLY doesn't like it when people are forced to work in unsafe conditions.
The man liberated Croatia when his heart was broken!
@ Gordon
Few actually admit to picking up on any bromancing vibes, but once it was pointed out, the hard hats and Village People reference - well - the situation is clearly getting out of hand...
I find myself asking new questions.
The end of the show, for example, when the policeman shows up at the mine with the cuffs? Does it mean that the Indian, the Sailor and the Biker Dude are already down there?
I've spent the hours since my last post here singing "Macho, macho man..." over and over again in my head and then suddenly realised why. What began as one tiny, posted spark has fueled a fierce fiery fusillade of Flaming Eliot fancies!
For the love of Little Debbie, stop the madness!
I always thought of Jesus as a liberal - heal the poor, pay your taxes, love ye one another. But now I'm confused. What is republican Jesus like? Screw the sick, poor. The wealthy shouldn't have to pay their fair share. Hate anybody different than us. It seems to me that the modern conservatives are anti-Christians grifting for souls.
Loved it! Loved the continuation of Sophie mentoring Parker (and Parker's subsequent performance) and the generous sprinkling of Eliot/Hardison laugh out loud moments, and again I really enjoyed the change from the office / bank setting (even though I realise why those are the most common ones).
@Gina - I understand what you're saying about Palin re hair and red jacket. My first thought was that she was a Palin parody because of the hairstyle, but as we saw more of her I realised this was off the mark and she was a more generic stereotype - plus of course Mr Rogers has himself confirmed that she was never intended to be one.
As for the red jacket: yes, when first I read your comment I wondered if perhaps the costume supervisor had made some subconscious judgment/leap, but then I quickly googled the names of the few US female politicans I know. And the google image results show many of them wearing red jackets more often than Sarah Palin's results show her wearing them. There's a reason why it's one of the garments of choice for these people. I think you can rest easy on that front and go back to enjoying the fun train.
They're talking Eliot/Cody on the TNT boards?
O_o
I love me some slash but that's really reaching, IMO. That's almost as icky and bad as Lindsey/Connor.
a) Was party affiliation mentioned on the show? A Democrat candidate certainly lessens the resemblance.
I don't remember it being mentioned, but Wikipedia says the last fifteen attorneys general of West Virginia have been Democrats, so I think it's pretty likely a fictional one would also be one.
LOVED it.
1. What area did you find that looks so much like Appalachia? I felt like I was home again!
2. What are your feelings about TNT airing "The Rashomon Job" in a different order than you intended? Does it work?
3. Does Eliot's aversion to hugs come from a general sense of wanting to keep his personal space (as I've been assuming) or his military history (as a hug may be a decent time to put a knife between someone's ribs)?
4. Was it Sophie or Nate who coached Parker in the accent? It may not have been an Appalachian accent, per se (Sophie's in "Two-Horse" was WAY further south than KY), but at least it was consistent, which is (to me) the most important thing (and more than you can say for the cast of True Blood in its first season).
Great episode :)
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or just getting closer to the people than before?
2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go?
3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name arch - will we learn it this season?
4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him having issues during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent?
5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that are starting to see seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems? lol
As always great episode and thanks for doing this :)
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or developing more of a heart?
2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where now I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go?
3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name issue - will we learn it this season?
4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him being a great husband during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent.
5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at Baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems for the team? lol
Thanks as always for a great episode and for answering these questions!
1. We've now seen Parker and Eliot both have mentor moments with a younger person. And Hardison kinda did with the vic on Double Blind. Is this because they're growing as people or developing more of a heart?
2. Eliot has made a few comments over the series that imply that he's from a working class family to the point where now I wonder if his family wasn't victimized by these types of people. (defending the miners, making comments in the Jailbreak Job about honest people, etc) Am I off base? You're hinting we're going to get some background story on him but how far back will this go?
3. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. We know his dad's past affected him, - how 'broken' was he already when his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent.
4. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at Baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
5. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems for the team? lol
Thanks as always for a great episode and for answering these questions! Oh and I love the relationship between Hardison and Eliot. Those two never cease to make me crack up.
*headdesk*
Google kept giving me an error message that my post was too big so I edited it - not realizing that it was posting it multiple times. So sorry!
@Anonymous said...
I always thought of Jesus as a liberal - heal the poor, pay your taxes, love ye one another. But now I'm confused. What is republican Jesus like? Screw the sick, poor. The wealthy shouldn't have to pay their fair share. Hate anybody different than us. It seems to me that the modern conservatives are anti-Christians grifting for souls.
Me thinks the Republican Jesus would say an eye for an eye, God helps those who help themselves, don't speak with forked tongues, and love one another, not screw the middle man.
Sir,
I am very pleased once again with this week's episode.
If I understand correctly from "The Two-Horse Job", as someone above pointed out, Eliot apparently grew up in horse country in state of Kentucky (I am born and still living in that state, just in far western flatter parts away from horse country and coalfields) so not that very much far off from coalfields in eastern Kentucky and in West Virginia.
Coal miners generally makes for tough men (it's not easy and clean job, is it?) so it wouldn't be a stretch to think that Eliot started out working in a mine and later on so soon joined the military and the rest is history.
Another thing to note here... It has been stated in this episode that Blackwell is BOTH a Chief Executive Officer (or CEO for short) and the mine supervisor. Now, that seems to suggest the corporation running this mine is a small corporation, not a large one like a few that runs countless mines. Normally, in small corporation, few employees would hold more than one titles there so it makes sense for Blackwell to hold both titles at a small corporation. This is especially reflected by the fact that his office is in a trailer right next to the mine's entrance instead of being in a fancy office building in a large city away from the mine. Either that or he prefers his office that way.
--
J.S.
A gold medal for Nate and the team, a stocking stocked with coal for Blackwell and Pierce...
Where was Parker's bunny when she went to catch some soul-stealing rest in Lucille 2.0?
Timeline-wise Corey should have been 16 and not 18.
Any chance you want to tell us what the missing scene with Sophie and Nate at the end was about? Pretty please with a bottle of gin on top. Thanks!
@ AliKatKaniac said...
3. No one seems to remember the Sophie name arch - will we learn it this season?
Rogers previously said that we'd hear Sophie called something in the season finale by someone from her past which may or may not be her *real* real name.
4. Was Nate a 'normal' guy before his son died? He's been chasing Sophie for years and referred to her as his compass in The Maltese Falcon but that would have been during his marriage. Maggie hinted at him having issues during their marriage, we know his dad's past affected him, which makes me wonder - how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent?
Rogers has previously said that Nate was always a bastard, but Maggie was one helluva mitigating factor in keeping that in check. ... Of course, with a dad like that, I'd be a bastard too.
5. As much as I LOVE this show there are two things that are starting to see seem far-fetched - Eliot's injuries never land him in the hospital (other than a mention of a CT in The Tap Out Job) and the fact that everyone seems capable of doing anything. As much as we love Eliot's toughness, he got hit by a car and didn't even get a band-aid (Or even sympathy from Parker which btw LOL). And eventually there is going to be something he or the others can't do - so far he's able to excel at baseball despite never having played it professionally, a singer - which yes, Christian Kane is but Eliot was not prior to that episode that we knew of, etc. Hardison can literally hack anything. Parker can do almost anything. You get where I'm going. I don't want to see my favorite team fail at things either but once in awhile it'd be more realistic to have one of them not be able to do something.
Really? The team can't do a lot of stuff. It just so happens that Nate over plans so that there's a contingency plan for every possibility ... except Sterling coming into play. Nate can't beat Sterling.
Hardison can't hack the Cayman Island's Bank where every Big Bad in existence keeps an account with loads of dirty money. He also can't "hack a hick" if you remember from the Tap-Out Job.
Parker can't handle horses, and can't crack a Sterenko by herself.
Sophie can't talk her way out of everything. There's a reason she's teaching Parker to grift. They need her to be able to.
Eliot ... I think you're overestimating how good he is. Sure, he's Batman or Wolverine, but even Eliot gets hurt. It just so happens that if he were to go to a hospital he'd be arrested. He can't show weakness in this way otherwise he'd be dead by now. Hospitals use drugs and drugs mean you can't fight as well as normally.
If Eliot wasn't as good as he was, he'd be dead by now. That's just the nature of his line of work. You're either the best or you die.
6. Speaking of Batman, is it just me or does anyone else think of all the Leverage bad guys ending up in some Arkham Asylum type place that they'll eventually escape from and cause problems? lol
... I'll leave this one for Rogers to answer. I vote please no.
Whoa Gina, down girl!
When I saw the AG, I immediately thought of Meg Scott Phipps from here in North Carolina, who took cash from amusement companies in exchange for granting them exclusive contracts for the State Fair and other fairs throughout the state, funneled the cash through campaign funds and paid off employees who threatened to talk. After serving time for federal convictions of conspiracy, mail fraud, and extortion in the same facility as Martha Stewart, she went back on the state payroll as a community college instructor.
She was known for wearing her hair in a tight bun and her suit sets.
When he was struggling with that in S1 and S2 Timothy Hutton was damn good. Funny, Dramatic. The whole package. Now he's 2D instead of 3D. Whe...re is the depth of the stories going?
@Jason Taylor Cory lied about his age, possibly to impress Eliot, possibly for his job, but Eliot seemed to know he was not 18 as evidenced by the question, "Why aren't you in school?" That is not a question someone typically asks of an 18 year old, which is usually the age people graduate high school.
John, this ep was so wonderful. It could have used a touch more fighting! LOL!
Also, re: the whole "the team can't do everything" thread, I know they can't do everything, but it seems to me that, obsessive-control freak that Nate is (and mastermind par excellence), he would not commit his team to a plan that called for them to do things he wasn't dead certain they could do. Or that they, being professionals at the top of their respective professions, would not agree to do something they were not absolutely certain they could do.
For instance, in the planning of the Studio Job, I can easily imagine Nate asking if anyone could sing or play, and Eliot, being reasonably certain of his abilities, would say, "I can." Nate would make certain he could at least carry a tune, and play *the* tune, and then Hardison would chime in with his, "I've got this software …" spiel.
As for talents that pop up without us ever having known about them before, well, we honestly don't know more about these people than we do. Except maybe Nate, though he still has some areas to be filled in.
For all we know, Eliot, like so many other Southern boys, was in a garage band in high school. And Hardison was a musical prodigy who, due to finances possibly, never got the chance to explore his genius.
But the thing I keep coming back to is this. Our team has to succeed at whatever they do, because the minute they fail, they all go down in flames.
SueN said: But the thing I keep coming back to is this. Our team has to succeed at whatever they do, because the minute they fail, they all go down in flames.
Plus, it's there show *solemn nod* ;)
My question: What did Hardison say to Eliot after the hug that caused Eliot to smile at him? I went back and played it over and over but couldn't suss it out.
Love the show. Consistently and completely. Thank you.
Sheesh. I'm embarrassed. It's their show, even!
@PhantomMinuet re "This episode kinda made me sad, because when all was said, and the con was done, the coal miners were still coal miners, and that's a crap job, no matter how theoretically "safe" you make it."
Agreed and I think it was purposefully done for whatever reason. Ending on a shot of the mine, knowing that the conditions were not safe YET but they still had to work there...and even when they are made safer it's still not a safe job, really. It definitely made me sad.
I just can't recall another episode where the final frame was the initial "victims" of the ep and not in a "yay! all better!" way. That was my take, anyway. I might've taken it the wrong way, or rather a different way than it was intended.
Rogers has previously said that Nate was always a bastard, but Maggie was one helluva mitigating factor in keeping that in check. ... Of course, with a dad like that, I'd be a bastard too.
I can imagine that for Nate, mightily not wanting to be ANYTHING like his father, having a son of his own was probably also a very strong mitigating factor against being a bastard. Being a good father - and by extension a good man - was probably the most important thing in Nate's life. Losing his son took away the most important reason he had to try to be good, to be the opposite of his father. He may never have consciously thought it, but I can easily imagine the subconscious question: "What's the point in trying to be a better man than my father, when God has taken away from me the reason I was trying so hard?"
If you'll pardon a purple metaphor, Sophie may be his compass, but Sam was his anchor and Maggie was his rudder. After Sam died, he was without all of them.
Nate's a fascinating character. Trying to think of another "leader of the pack" character who was deeply flawed, not a nice guy, and continued to evolve over the course of the series, and also headed up a gang of thieves, the one that comes immediately to my mind is Mal Reynolds.
Donna, after the hug (that Eliot didn't like), Hardison said, "For morale!"
Me thinks the Republican Jesus would say an eye for an eye, God helps those who help themselves, don't speak with forked tongues, and love one another, not screw the middle man.
You're thinking of Hamurabi. Jesus was the guy talking about forgiveness.
Hi, this is my first time commenting here.
I'm really enjoying the show, and I'm extremely excited about the next episode!
My first question is will we ever see good character development in Nate?
As an inspiring writer myself when I create characters I want to see them succeed. Rock bottom isn't the end of their character development, or story lines.
I understand that Nate isn't a good person, and will definitely get worse before he gets better.
Will he get better is the question I’m asking.
Also, will there ever be a season finale that doesn't focus mostly on Nate?
More specifically I mean a season finale that comes about because of one of the other characters actions or choices, past or present.
Thank you for the time you take in answering our questions :)
Zenkitty - I totally just shared a brain with you about Nate. Posted in the comments to the Double Blind Answer post about how different he is from the usual "leader" type in action-type shows. I was trying to think of another one similar to him and couldn't. To me, he's closer to the type of character you see in Mad Men or the Sopranos.
As for Palin, I think it's reading a lot into it to take a red jacket and an up-do and turn it into a parody of Sarah Palin. There may be some VERY superficial similarities but there are a lot more differences.
Of course, Leverage has been accused by some conversative blogger of being a mouthpiece for the "WH's liberal agenda," so it doesn't surprise me that some viewers may be looking for subtext in every little thing.
As for this ep, I was a little perplexed by the physical assault on Nate. If Blackwell was just planning to conserve air with one less body, wouldn't he have done the deed and killed Nate? Nate also recovered quick from having a 2x4 snapped over his back. Were there any scenes cut out down in the mine with Eliot and Nate? In the interest of bromance, we must know these things.
Unrelated to Leverage, but where else am I gonna ask?
Andrew Cosby, who you worked with at Boom Studios and on Leverage last year, is a co-producer on the new Mage movie option (http://tinyurl.com/35da53j) and is looking for a writer. Any chance of your involvement?
I only ask because your early 00's Mage script was an excellent 2-hourish adaptation of a HUGE story that some of us are VERY particular about.
Or, um, so I am told. Yeah.
@gina - you're entitled to your opinions but not your own facts:
"Uh, guys? The Palin parody? Completely lame. Now, give us a parody of a First Lady who spends like a drunken sailor in the middle of a recession . . . then you'd REALLY have something funny."
Econ 101: You WANT consumers to spend in a recession - see WSJ: http://bit.ly/9qXTMe and the FLOTUS did pay for room, food, transportation costs of her politically tone-deaf vacation to Spain (NYT) http://nyti.ms/a0MMKF
Anyway, back to the real story, "Leverage" - a nice episode with some great lines (Village people reference was priceless) and an interesting way to set up the back episodes.
I was thinking the southern pol was Ann Richards. If she was evil. Or Kay Bailey Hutchinson (Republican, but she's the right inspiration for the hair). Possibly Janet Reno, no?
For season 4, how about scheming political wives as the big bad- such a target-rich environment from which to choose.
Again, thanks for reading the posts/answering questions.
My question: What did Hardison say to Eliot after the hug that caused Eliot to smile at him? I went back and played it over and over but couldn't suss it out.
Thank you! He said something like "I'm going to be as far away from the mine as possible. High five, for morale....Go with God....???????????"
(I *think* I heard...."I'm Captain Ahab"?) It made Eliot chuckle whatever it was.
Another great ep! I have to admit, the fact that Eliot is growing a heart makes me veeeery nervous for him! I love how you can almost see his internal conflict. He knows he shouldn't allow himself to be emotionally invested in the people he's helping, but he can't help it! I think it's a great insight on how having a family changes people, whether they like it or not. Eliot is just beginning to recognize a change in himself, and he already knows it's going to cost him, but also that it's the price he has to pay to be in relationships with the rest of the crew.
Brilliant writing! I always appreciate it when the "tough guy" character shows a little vulnerability. I can only guess we will be seeing more of that later in the season????
A great episode all around, always fun to see Parker's awkwardness mixed with her maturation as a character. My question is totally unrelated to this episode, but previous comments made me wonder:
Did Maggie know anything about Sophie during their marriage? Even as simple as that's who Nate was chasing? And when exactly did Sam get sick enough to the point where Nate stopped working to be with him?
Thanks so much for all the time you spend pleasing us needy fans!!! haha
Oh, a general comment on
As stated, they are much more peers now. Which is good, because Nate is much more of a bastard now.
Is that cause and effect? Be interesting to see that Nate lets himself be more of a bastard as the team are more peers now, and that he accepts them as family. Makes sense, given his real father.
Dee Loralei, I just kept on reading HOPING someone would point this out to you but I never found it. 1) It seems you have gotten The Underground Job mixed up with The Studio Job. 2) If I'm remembering my Twitter feed from over a year ago right Christian Kane tweeted about wanting the Leverage crew to take on a music company after he ran into an issues trying to release a song. 3) Christian SINGS country in real life so having to blues because that is more Memphis then country just wouldn't work. 4) I don't think that this did THAT episode to highlight the new show TNT is running called Memphis Beat. As I said before I believe this was in the planning stages LONG before Memphis Beat was Green Lite by TNT.
Loved this episode Rogers. I'm just not getting why so many people seem to be upset with the southern accent. As someone born and raised in the south I'm finding no issues with them at all.
AliKatKaniac said...
I'm not sure if you played it but in that web game on the TNT webpage last year we got told that Eliot was part of a country band in his early years and he didn't want ANYONE to see or hear the recordings. That made the whole Eliot can sing thing seem more real when it came to the studio job.
A general observation: I personally think that given how Nate almost fell apart without Sophie beside him last season (and he was well aware what the reason was), he missed her and begged her to come back, almost said 'I love you' and kissed her, it makes no sense how you make him act distant and sometimes insensitive to Sophie this season. Why did you stop developing this relationship? How could Nate not allow her to get closer to him when she worried about him in The Three Card Monte Job? Why was the subplot of Nate earning the right to learn Sophie's real name just dropped like they both forgot all about it? It was cute how he wanted to know it real bad. And now I read here that you've deleted some scenes they shared. I don't understand, we've almost come to the end of the summer run and you've done practically nothing with these two. Why have the writers forgotten about Nate and Sophie after a couple of episodes at the beginning of the season? A nice little moment between them here and there, would that be so hard to come up with?
I guess Nate and the audience won't get to know Sophie's real name this season since Nate has done nothing to deserve it, to win Sophie back. More like the opposite.
On the Sophie's name, thing - when did this distinction between "sophie's real name" and "sophie's real real name" come up? If we're going to get a red herring name in the King George job (maybe), does that mean we're not going to get the "real real" name this season? Or we are? I'm so confused.
I have watched the episode my obligatory three (or four) times before making my post...
Most of my questions have been asked already but there was one thing glaring for me...
Why in the hell would Nate and Blackwell go back down in that mine without hardhats! SERIOUSLY? It is an unstable mine to begin with and Blackwell knows there is a good chance of a bomb..
This was a great epi. Eliot with a heart...twirling a pick axe. *sigh*
Parker's line at the end about Stealing Souls being exhausting was priceless.
all around terrific episode. But - a Wonder twins epi with Eliot NOT in a suit - that must have hurt them both deeply.
It seems that everybody is learning the skills of the others (Parker making progress being a grifter, Hardison being the mastermind, ..)
The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot.
Is there a reason why?
Or is there more to come?
Thanx for the great show. And congrats for season four.
Whish you and your writer-team great ideas. Keep us surprised with every episode.
Greetings from Germany,
Mira.
The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot.
Is there a reason why?
I would (carefully) claim that that's because he's already good at most of these things (except the computer stuff, see his interactions with Hardison). There were small hints at this in the .. uh .. episode where they had to rescue Maggie in Ukraine. He used to retrieve .. things. and people.
on the whole "Sophie's real name thing"... When watching the eps in what I believe was the intended order (The Inside Job being 305, coming between the Double-Blind and the Studio - think Rogers confirmed that?), you get more of a sense of the arc and it doesn't feel like it was has been forgotten since the 3rd ep.
I really prefer Parker's growth watching this way - it kind of feels more natural.
Well, I have to say I'm finding this season really uneven. You guys are getting really sloppy. I realize our heroes are the best of the worst, but you still have to show some of the prep work and background "infrastructure" in these jobs. The hand waving of details is getting too broad in some episodes.
Sofie and Nate are the worst. Apparently the Power of the Grifter is so strong within them, that the marks will believe any horse crap thrown at them.
"We're from the Department of Bamboozlement. We'd like total access to your office/bank/mine."
"Uh...okey dokey."
"And we don't want you following us around. We want to privately muck with your computers."
"No problem...wait. I forgot to read the tag pinned to my suit. It sez 'don't forget to ask for ID and stuff.'"
And don't get me started on Hardistan's computer wizardry. It's a trap many different shows fall into. The computer hacker/genius can do ANYTHING from ANY computer he sits down at. People would scream in protest if Elliott blew a vault door off its hinges with one kick, but will nod along at Hardistan doing the equivalent superpowers with a keyboard.
I don't need to see extended scenes of handicraft time, making fake IDs. Or lengthy explanations of Hardistan's creation of fake computer backgrounds. But there needs to be an acknowledgement that this was done. If the villains are to have any sly and fiendish credibility, they have to make our heroes jump thru at least some basic hoops.
I've been a keen fan of the show from the first episode, but this season...please pull up your socks.
Question 1) Do you ever get tired of being told you are amazing and wonderful and a genius and so on? (Because I don't get tired of thinking it :) Question 2) Clearly, something major is a brewing with Eliot and you seem way too excited about it. Since it will probably have already aired by the time you answer this question: is/was the intent to simply significantly develop/reveal the history of the character or is/was it to change our view of Eliot? (Clearly, he is THE fan fave, as Nate was in season 1 (or at least part of it). You made us loathe him, and so everyone was forced to pick a new fave, making it a true ensemble cast rather than the Nate and his team show)If you want our view of Eliot to change, WHY? (Please don't answer: 'I think you know why' I hate it when you do that:) Question 3) Not a shipper and really, really hate the unnecessary merging of two names...that said, I really want Parker and Hardison to hook up. Can/will that be done without feeling the need to add in relationship drama? I mean, can they have feelings, have sex, enjoy each other, but the show still be about the cons, or will we have to sit through scenes of 'discussing emotions'? Question 4) Hardison has been established as an extremely competent hack who obviously has cashed in on that skill. At least one flashback had him as a geek teen, presumably from a reasonable family. And he seems to have a conscious--like the kind of guy who, with a glimpse or two at the effect of his thievery on (good/innocent) others would have redirected his skills. What am I missing?
@notapatsy Wow...just wow. But thanks, 'cause I really needed that laugh.
@jonrog This is still a fictional TV show right? Or are you actually hypnotizing us all during the flashback scenes in order to coordinate a political coup. 'Cause if so, then I'm not watching anymore. I don't like hypnosis :p
Great episode.
I still get chills whenever I see people running toward a fire.
@Blaze said...
Well, I have to say I'm finding this season really uneven. You guys are getting really sloppy. I realize our heroes are the best of the worst, but you still have to show some of the prep work and background "infrastructure" in these jobs.
In your opinion. I'd say the majority disagree. And if you're going to give notes, at least do Rogers the courtesy of getting the characters right: ELIOT and HARDISON, not Elliott and Hardistan. It's tough to take a point seriously with that egregious an error.
Somebody piss in your Cheerios?
@Jason Taylor and Kathleen Venable:
Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them.
The only one who seems stuck in his development is Eliot.
Is there a reason why?
I would (carefully) claim that that's because he's already good at most of these things (except the computer stuff, see his interactions with Hardison). There were small hints at this in the .. uh .. episode where they had to rescue Maggie in Ukraine. He used to retrieve .. things. and people.
----
To add to that, I'd have to say that Eliot is slowly learning computer skills. Remember Hardison's outburst in this episode, "I thought we were making progress!"?
Eliot's learning something that he's not sure he'll need after the team breaks up. But he IS learning the one thing he doesn't really have right now. We've seen him grift. We've seen him steal. We've seen him plan the cons that work better (or as good as) the ones Nate comes up with. He just can't hack.
@Daisy Bookworm
But I would argue that his computer skills have GREATLY increased this season. I think back to his quick keyboarding with the computer in the dental lab (one handed btw)
@anonymous
Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them
Even though there is no specific reference that this is the same Corey - I am pretty sure most of us agree (until Rogers confirms) that this is the SAME Corey and he lied about his age...
Gina Bellman has that smouldering, smoky brunette aura that simply cannot be matched, but oh Beth Riesgraf you have STOLEN my SOUL in that miniskirt. No question!
Gina Bellman has that smouldering, smoky brunette aura that simply cannot be matched, but oh Beth Riesgraf you have STOLEN my SOUL in that miniskirt.
She's playing a lithe, limber, athletic young character. I think we should EXPECT some fluttering hearts with that one...
@Gina: Nate is SO not a bastard! He's awesome!!
He's an awesome bastard.
@Tom Galloway: Does Hardison have any friends?
Do you mean the face-to-face kind?
@Sarah: 1) We have diamond mines and coal mines that resonate w/ Eliot. More background that we're supposed to connect or purely coincidental?
I concur with the "identification with the working stiff" line of thought, with a dash of "there but for the grace of God" tossed in.
@AliKatKaniac: how 'broken' was he before his son died for him to go from criminal's son to seminary school to insurance agent?
First he's the antithesis of his father and then he pursues and captures people just like his father. So he's always been broken in that particular way. What's new now is realizing that he's not as different from his father as he originally thought (although he's not as like his father as perhaps he fears).
@gwangung: Be interesting to see that Nate lets himself be more of a bastard as the team are more peers now, and that he accepts them as family.
I suspect Nate being more of a bastard has less to do with how he feels about the team and more to do with how he feels about himself. Although he has a better calibration of how much the team will put up with.
@anonymous said: Maybe I missed it but I don't remember the character of Corey being confirmed to be the same boy who's father we saw before he died at the beginning of the ep(who's 14 birthday was coming up). There were more than a dozen guys killed in that explosion; he could be the son of any of them
But what are the odds of two miners who have a son named Cory being killed in the same explosion?
The doomed miner asks: Are you coming to Cory's birthday party this weekend?
And then we learn he's turning 14. So I think it's pretty safe to assume dead miner's son Cory and Eliot's friend Cory are the same guy.
@Blaze … sure. All we need for them to show us all the background work they do is, what, another 15-20 minutes per ep? Not to mention some exceedingly dull pipe? (Here's Hardison writing his code; here's Sophie and Nate researching mine safety groups; here's Parker casing a bank; here's Eliot scoping out security; here's me yawning …)
Why can't we be allowed to assume that, since these guys ARE the best at what they do, they, like, y'know, know what they're doing? And know what they need to do and are doing it?
At various times over the course of three seasons (for which time you've been such a keen fan), we have seen them do the detail work. Remember all those team briefings when Hardison (HARDISON, not Hardistan; he's not some former Soviet republic) has brought up file after file after file? Or when we've seen him create various identities? Or listened to him walk Eliot … and us … through the tech? When we've lovingly watched Parker break into various vaults/safes/offices/whatever? When we've seen Nate and SOPHIE (not Sofie; note how Rogers, the man who created her, spells her name) planning the cons?
These people are professionals; more, they are at the top of their professions. Why would you assume they haven't been doing the work they so obviously need to do in order to succeed? And why do we need to see every little detail? We're not idiots. We've seen them do these things before; we don't - or shouldn't - need to see it every time to understand that, yes, they're still doing the detail work.
Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
@la_ma Not to diss you or anything but Thats a terrible ideal for parker and Hardison just to "have sex and enjoy each other"..That requires no growth on the characters part if its nothing more than sex.
I suspect Nate being more of a bastard has less to do with how he feels about the team and more to do with how he feels about himself. Although he has a better calibration of how much the team will put up with.
I suspect that's the greater part of the reason. But I have my doubts that Nate would allow himself to be as much of a bastard in season 1 or 2. there's a little bit of a realization that the team puts up with a little more BECAUSE they all are more peer like and everyones admitted they're a bit of a family.
Not to diss you or anything but Thats a terrible ideal for parker and Hardison just to "have sex and enjoy each other"..That requires no growth on the characters part if its nothing more than sex.
By the way....has it been established that HARDISON has had any experience in the romance arena? Just curious...
@SueN: Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
What SueN said.
Also, the show is in it's 3rd season. For any series to have longevity, you expect some things to be assumed knowledge from past seasons, rather than continuing to spoon-feed and hand-hold the audience. We all now know what each member can and can't/won't do e.g. Hardison hacking hicks, Eliot using Parker's rigs. Do we really need to be constantly reminded of how they do the things they do best? Or would we rather be continually surprised/amazed by each character's growth. Or in Nate's case, crossover to the "dark side".
I could go on a point by point rebuttal of @Blaze's comment, but the other forums would be a better(??) place to start flame-wars.
Regardless of some "huh??" moments throughout various episodes, I remain firmly nailed into my seat on the fun train. God help anyone who tries to pry me off it.
@gwangung: given that Hardison immediately recognised the noises for what they were, whereas Parker was oblivious, maybe it's safe to assume that he has some experience in that department. I dunno. Maybe that's just my own warped brain talking...
"Smells like bubbles" was my favorite note Parker took. It just made me happy.
Also, I never think of Nate as a bastard, which is weird, because I know he does bastard things. I just like him no matter what. This is a problem in my real life too, I think... haha.
We've seen Parker with the car thief gal and Eliot with the coal miner. Any chance of a Hardison mentor ship? Because I think that would be interesting and enjoyable.
@baby smoke: given that Hardison immediately recognised the noises for what they were, whereas Parker was oblivious, maybe it's safe to assume that he has some experience in that department. I dunno. Maybe that's just my own warped brain talking...
Wasn't it in The Stork Job that we found out all the guys were very familiar with a certain porn film series? Just sayin'...
And
@baby smoke: @SueN: Rogers & Co. write for us as if we are intelligent. The best way we can respect and honor that is to, I don't know, be intelligent.
What SueN said.
Yeah. That.
Can somebody just clarify for me, what is all this talk of S.W.O.R.D and S.H.I.E.L.D etc... I've seen it mentioned a few times but never really got what they meant.
It's Marvel Comics stuff - S.W.O.R.D. is a secret intelligence agency dealing with Earth affairs (superheroes and all that), while S.H.I.E.L.D.S' domain is extra-terrestrial.
Isn't Parker exceeding her dresses-per-season quota? Or am I confusing that with Eliot's suits-per-season rule?
Wasn't it in The Stork Job that we found out all the guys were very familiar with a certain porn film series? Just sayin'...
well....Internet geek...what's the internet's made for...just sayin'.....
So, only a few people have mentioned this so far, and I have to – Eliot’s would-have-been-death-delivering blow down there in the mine. I know you wanted us to notice it (you did a close-up of the axe in the wall that clearly indicated, in case we’d somehow missed it, that had that guy not ducked, he would have been all kinds of dead), and I know that’s Eliot’s past catches up with him sometime this season, though you’ve all been charmingly vague about that (I would expect nothing less).
So, my questions are as follows, 1) If this was foreshadowing, how much longer are you going to make us wait for that Eliot plot line? (Please don’t say until after the hiatus *knows it’s already done but makes puppy eyes anyway*) 2)Was Eliot’s (moment of) willingness to kill that guy brought on by the fact that he’d put Cory in danger? 2a) Is Eliot’s spiral later this season (if spiral is the correct term to be using) going to be triggered by someone threatening/putting in danger, a member of the team? (and by ‘danger’, I do mean a kind more severe than we see on an episode-to-episode basis) 3) There’s a moment in the middle of the fight, right before he swings the axe into the wall, where Eliot tilts his head to the side and looks at that guy with an expression that’s nearly inhuman. Was that Eliot Spencer’s “I’m about to kill you” face? 3a) Are we ever going to see Eliot kill somebody?
SueN. said...
All we need for them to show us all the background work they do is, what, another 15-20 minutes per ep? Not to mention some exceedingly dull pipe? (Here's Hardison writing his code; here's Sophie and Nate researching mine safety groups; here's Parker casing a bank; here's Eliot scoping out security; here's me yawning …)
****
I agree with almost everything you said SueN, and whilst the above would be tiresome in standard eps, I could stand to see some extras of just that - DVD extras perhaps?!
Anonymous re: Eliot - I've been thinking that Eliot's either going to kill someone or not be able to - probably in the finale or at least in the Moreau arc eps. His arc is all about him thawing and becoming more open - I think he's going to have do so some bad bad stuff to take down the big bad and then have to deal with emotions he hasn't had to face since he put his defenses up OR he's going to have an "Unforgiven" Ned moment where he can't kill because of the thawing. After the mine ep, I'm betting on the kill.
As for the show not be realistic - It's an action caper show. It bends the rules, so parts of it - Eliot's superheroness, Hardison's superhackerness, etc. are just an integral part of the show's shtick. The show is going to go broad sometimes. That's just what it does. (But I still hate that mom who let the creepy fake IRS agent in!)
Not even a vaguely shielded version of Massey --- I like!
In today's paper, it stated that Massey has been cited for 20accidents/incidents that went unreported in the two years prior to the deadly explosion at the Upper Big Branch mine in April. Only four of the infractions were directly related to the explosion.
But don't worry. Massey says it's "reviewing" the information in order to determine why these infractions weren't reported. Uh huh. Weasels.
@Anonymous (and Rogers), is it wrong that the idea of an "Eliot spiraling down into darkness" arc just does things to me?
And, yeah, I noted that head-tilt, dead-cold stare just before he swung. I may even have rewatched it … multiple times … and needed a cigarette after.
Yes, I perv for the bad boys. Don't judge me.
And, yeah, I noted that head-tilt, dead-cold stare just before he swung. I may even have rewatched it … multiple times … and needed a cigarette after.
Thanks SueN.... Now I have to go watch and hit pause at lunch... or perhaps miss my next Conf call...
@Joe Helfrich: I usually post under Video Beagle, but since I was referencing Tyg's personal back story, I wanted him to know who it was. (And I belive you've met my beagle..only one the board who can claim that :-)
@Sue: Are you saying you wouldn't want to see an extra 20 minutes of the team prepping to do a job?
@Anon & Anon: You got it backwards... SHIELD is the top spy/Law Enforcement group in the world (see them in the Iron Man movies) while SWORD is a watch out for aliens, sorta like MiB with green hair and tight jump suits, group....ARMOR watches for incursions from other realities...
@whoever: As for Eliot and killing...seriously, go watch the Homecoming Job again...His first scene is dealing with a bunch of bodies it's pretty clear he just killed.
@Blaze: You'd be surprised how far you can get with a badge and the right attitude. Us Americans are programmed to obey authority without question.
@gwanggung: How romantic do you consider hookers in slave Leia outfits?
@whoever: Clearly it wasn't Sarah Palin...she didn't quit half way through the episode.
So where was the "mine" scene shot? Was the entrance constructed just for the show? The wife and I were arguing about what the place actually was, since there aren't many coal mines near Portland.
(And you could have avoided the "city folks rescuing the bumpkins" accusation by setting the episode in one of the coal mines in downtown Boston.)
Attention all Leverage fans (especially all those asking if and when Leverage Season 3 will stream thru instant Netflix like season 2 did): Not sure when this happened, but I know it was just in the last couple days, but Cablevision finally added TNT to their free on demand. It only offers the last (most recent) 4 eps that have aired, but hey, it's something! (especially if you don't have dvr.) It's the little things in life that make me happy:)
From a friend, via Facebook -
"Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
To that I'll add that the owner slugging Nate didn't make any sense. I could see him killing him to save air, but knocking him out seemed a bit odd. I' too, was surprised by their lack of hard hats.
Thanks, John!
Corey seemed like he was lying about his age to Eliot. I thought I detected a small beat there before he tells him "18". One thing that annoyed me....at the end, Eliot tells the vic to "take care of Corey for me". The vic knew Corey for years before Eliot came along, so I would assume he was already watchin' out for for Corey. And my husband wants to know, "how come every keyboard the team comes across has a USB port on it?"
Blackwell is referred to as the CEO in the beginning, but the way he talks about selling the mine, or using the payroll to pay for the mining process, he sounds like the owner.
@Video Beagle, if I get 20 extra minutes, I'd rather watch them doing the job. But, yeah, some of their prep would definitely be worth watching.
My issue was Blaze was the insistence that because we're not seeing all the prep, the characters obviously aren't doing all the prep.
Seriously, I could watch these people do almost anything for 60 minutes, 90 minutes or two hours. But I don't need to see them doing everything to believe that they're doing it.
I have no episode related question, but I do have two geeky fandom-related ones.
First--you do know that you would totally have a ball in the bar at Gallifrey One in LA in February (if you're not up in Portland), right? Like, as in CRAZY AMOUNTS OF AWESOME Who geeking type fun. Ask javi if you do not believe me--the man comes wearing his Fourth Doctor scarf, even. And there are toys you prolly do not yet own in the dealer's room... I'm just saying.
Secondly--Did you get the "Shell Game" discs okay? Sadly, all the FEED "Ryman For President" badges from Orbit vanished in a flash at SDCC, but I can send you the vector art if you want to ask the art department to make you one...
It was interesting to see that Parker, who is only an apprentice grifter right now and doesn't have much truck with human contact, is able to do a West Virginia accent accurate enough to fool native West Virginians on an ongoing basis. I assume this this because a) Sophie has been really good at teaching her how to do accents, and b) Parker is just really good at paying attention and picking things up.
I'm glad that in starting to move Parker beyond her little Asperger's-like area of comfort and expertise, you're also remembering to put in little scenes and dialog exchanges reminding us that Parker still doesn't look out the same window most of us do.
And if you're going to keep putting Beth in dresses like that, please have the SFX department dub in some periodic loud, sharp noises. I keep getting distracted and missing important plot points.
I'm a Leverage newbie, lovin' every minute, now obsessed with the show. I've watched S1 and the commentaries; I'm now working my way through S2.
As a newbie, the question that occurs to me most often is: how do clients find the team? Often it's clear that Nate or someone else on the team finds the clients, but other times, it seems like the clients have found Nate. How does that happen? I also wonder how the team escapes the reach of the law. Neither question bothers me much, 'casue this is a series for which suspending disbelief is called for. Ya just gotta accept the team and the clients find each other and that the law doesn't find the team.
BTW, I love the enthusiasm that emanates from the cast, the writers/directors/producers, and the fans. There's a connection among all, the Leverage extended family. Nice.
@Nomless: Haridson has a bunch of super tech word sounding searches that run, scanning news, court reports and so on. It seems more "Someone goes looking for help...and Leverage finds them"
They escape the law mainly by not getting caught. Hardison erases traces of their existence afterwards. And in S3, the Italian is keeping the feds off their backs.
*****************
SO, the Zero issue of Roger's new D&D comic book is out..who's read it? I liked his story (the backup left some bits to be desired). I found myself trying to map the Leverage crew to the characters...it's not a great fit, yet, though...Elliot maps about 60% to one character..but Parker maps 100% to another.
@Nomless, it's never been explicitly said how clients find the team. The overall impression is that sometimes clients find the team, and sometimes the team finds clients. And, in one case, the client literally runs into the team. *g*
And Video Beagle's web crawler thing sounds as plausible as anything else.
@Aud Arrt, why shouldn't Eliot ask Clay to look out for Cory? The kid obviously touched a nerve with him, and, probably as much for his own peace of mind as anything else, he just wants to be certain Cory is okay. That doesn't mean he doesn't trust the miners or doesn't think they've done good job so far, he just wants to be sure. It's something people who care do, and Eliot is suddenly finding himself in the position of caring about others.
SO, the Zero issue of Roger's new D&D comic book is out..who's read it? I liked his story (the backup left some bits to be desired). I found myself trying to map the Leverage crew to the characters...it's not a great fit, yet, though...Elliot maps about 60% to one character..but Parker maps 100% to another.
If you're saying Bree = Parker, I don't think it's quite 100%. Bree is perfectly willing to walk away from crying children being sold into slavery. Parker wouldn't be. Also, Bree seems to be more of an extrovert.
I really liked the issue. I've been playing D&D since 1978, and gave it up with 4th edition, but I may find it a perfectly good milieu for stories even if I have no interest in playing in it.
This issue #0 did a very good job of introducing the characters and giving us an open-and-shut bit of action to prime the pump with. I'll definitely read on.
(And I know Tisha the Tiefling is supposed to be the designated hot totty of the group, but I have a crush on Bree. I've always had a thing for cute halfling chicks.)
adc: you're right. I was so jazzed by her looniness, I missed the subletites you got. Let's say Bree is 90% Parker.
@Sue I recall Rogers saying something about heuristic data searches, though I rather like Tyg's suggestion that Hardison has basicly hacked Google to pop up a web ad based on certain search criteria.
Mostly OT -- we've noted villain names like Hannity in Leverage, that cleared the legal screen but suggest real-life villains. Well, in this week's White Collar the Russian gangster was named Abramov, though I didn't see how it was spelled.
@ Piratecat said...
From a friend, via Facebook -
"Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
The purpose was to close the mine down so he didn’t have to pay the workers and could use the payroll money to finance the deal with Nate, since the AG wouldn’t give him the money.
@24jg13 and Piratecat, Plus there's probably insurance money. Nate said he'd seen the scam during his years in that racket. Er, field.
@Piratecat said
"Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan? Made no sense to us."
Also (my sister explained) if Blackwood blew up the mine and laid off all the miners, then with the technology he was being sold he could find the coltan even if the mine was gone. Plus, he didn't have to pay the workers, so he was saving money AND making money at the same time. At least, that's how I understood it.
===
Loved his episode to pieces, I really did. I too was trying to figure out if Cory (Corey?) was actually the kid of the dead miner lying about his age or not. I'm still waffling on the matter.
No real questions this time around, just a shout-out to the awesomeness of the Sophie-Parker big-sister-little-sister type scene, and all of Hardison and Eliot's interactions. Those are always my favorite parts because they always make me giggle.
I kind of wish there was more of the Italian/Moreau backstory interspersed in the episodes, especially the recent ones. It seemed like there was a lot of the Italian and whatnot at the beginning of the season, and now, I forget she even exists until I read the questions other people post where she's mentioned. I know that something big is planned with Moreau, but I'd still like reminders every now and then about the big bad the team has to find, or else Moreau's storyline is gonna just come out of nowhere for me. But maybe that's what you're planning, yes?
Okay, I lied, one quick question. Was Sophie's character this time around (can't remember her name) supposed to be some sort of sell-to-the-highest-bidder type character? She seemed to pull out her business card and tell the 'real' story to Blackwood awfully quick when she was caught. It just seemed a little odd to me how she didn't even pretend for a moment that she was a safety inspector, or deny it or something when she got caught, and just spilled everything about her technology and the coltan without even blinking.
Otherwise, great job with the episode, and I can't wait for the Rashomon Job. It looks intense.
@PirateCat: Please explain to me, from this week's ep, why blowing up his mine would aid the owner with his plan to harvest the coltan?
I have no detailed knowledge of mining, but it is possible that Blackwell personally owns the land but has a corporation which licensed the mineral rights. If he blows up the mine, the corporation (and presumably its liabilities for those citations) goes away but the land remains. He then forms a new corporation to extract the coltan.
the owner slugging Nate didn't make any sense
Unconscious people consume less air, and it could have been as a prelude to killing him. If nothing else, it shut "Gibson" up.
@Nomless: I also wonder how the team escapes the reach of the law.
The law has a lot on its hands and can't spend the resources looking for everyone. If you don't attract its attention and aren't violent, it probably won't hunt you down.
@Murphy: She seemed to pull out her business card and tell the 'real' story to Blackwood awfully quick when she was caught.
Well, she was caught and he was threatening her with arrest, which would have brought up her "real" name and company anyway.
@Murphy, she was definitely supposed to be a "highest bidder" character. They set up the first part of the scam (Nate and Sophie/Hardison going in back-to-back, Sophie and Hardison asking Blackwood's guy where they should eat lunch) so Blackwood would be there and "catch" her talking to Nate so that she could drop her mine inspector act and tell him about the coltan. Blackwood had to think she was willing to work with the highest bidder in order for him to trust her, oddly enough.
This one was great! I have only two questions . . . (1) Did Hardison have a backup plan for Nate's com link going down? Seemed like the ending was dependent on patching the com to the PR system. Or was the booster in place just for that eventuality? (I had assumed the booster was more universally useful to the team on this one, given how many of them were underground at various points.) and (2) Did Blackwell think his bomb had gone off when Hardison's mock-detonation occurred? or did Blackwell just think it was a small cave-in with the big explosion still to come?
RE: S.W.O.R.D and S.H.I.E.L.D, I'm pretty sure S.H.I.E.L.D. (Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directive) is the spy agency focusing on terrestrial matters and S.W.O.R.D. (Sentient World Observation and Response Department) is the one paying attention to aliens.
Also, great show, once again.
@ lily "This one was great! I have only two questions . . . (1) Did Hardison have a backup plan for Nate's com link going down? Seemed like the ending was dependent on patching the com to the PR system. Or was the booster in place just for that eventuality? (I had assumed the booster was more universally useful to the team on this one, given how many of them were underground at various points.)"
We saw Eliot planting boosters somewhere in Act Two I believe. And I'm not sure Hardison had a back up plan for Nate's com going off line. Perhaps Nate had a different recording device stashed away somewhere.
(2) "Did Blackwell think his bomb had gone off when Hardison's mock-detonation occurred? or did Blackwell just think it was a small cave-in with the big explosion still to come?"
I think it was supposed to be a minor cave-in. The bigger explosion would have been just that: Bigger. As in, the whole mine would have gone "boom" (as Eliot so hilariously put it).
Please help: In the original (non-flashback) scene where Hardison hugs Eliot saying, "For morale, man!" Eliot shoves him away, then Hardison says something else that I can't quite make out. Eliot walks away, but then points back at Hardison and smiles.
What did Hardison say and why did Eliot go from annoyed-frowny-face to cool-smiley-face?
It seems out of character for Eliot. Was that just a bit of Christian/Aldis end-of-scene playing around that just didn't get edited out?
Thanks!
(@Calla: I think Eliot pointing and smiling was at least partly a recognition that Hardison was referring to the "high five for morale" moments in the Gone Fishing Job.)
I kind of want to piggy-back on what ChelseaNH mentioned above about Eliot and a possible "there but for the grace of God" sentiment. At certain points earlier in the season some of Eliot's sympathize-with-the-vic moments have struck me as a little over-sentimental. But having seen this episode, now I wonder if in addition to the whole "oh we're the good guys now" thing having its effect on the team's consciences over the years, Eliot feels like he abandoned more than just Aimee when he enlisted (or whatever it was).
I don't mean anything really specific like "did Eliot have X or Y experience." I mean, rather, is he starting to feel anything like a prodigal son? Does he feel like his enlistment (or whatever) was somehow immature? Not in a general "joining the Army for adventure is silly" kind of way, but for him personally, as if maybe instead of liberating Croatia he should've found a way to fix problems closer to home.
Objectively speaking, I'd guess that for whatever reasons with which we're not familiar, if he'd stayed home he would not have in fact been in a position to exert the sort of power he can now. But that wouldn't necessarily make him feel better about "running away" (if that was indeed any part of his emotional motivation for taking up his line of work).
I guess what I'm trying to ask, in a really rambling way, is, would it be a stretch to suppose that the "thawing" of Eliot Spencer can be traced all the way back to Two-Horse? Despite the fact that being interrogated about the whereabouts of a monkey was a pretty legit reason not to have been in contact with Aimee, has he been wondering this whole time if her anger was not merely understandable but right in ways even she might not have known?
(Which may imply another question, especially since they also wrote Zanzibar Marketplace: In addition to writing a magnificent Parker, do the Wonder Twins lavish any particular care on Eliot's long term development?)
This is the first time I came back to a post to read after people asked the questions and I was shocked to find the whole controversy about the Palin/southern accents/etc etc. Sometimes it feels like people watch for things to offend them. As I am from the south, I didn't even notice the accents so obviously they weren't THAT off. And besides, we have people living in a section of our town that has their own accent different from ours as well as the next town over. There is not a 'universal' southern accent just like there is not a universal northern accent
Everyone needs to remember that Leverage is a fictional show for entertainment - not FoxNews or CNN.
John - thanks for putting up with all of us (including me with my repeated posts :P)
@Daisy Bookworm I don't agree with a lot of what you said about #5 but I'll just wait for John to answer my question :)
I seriously think Leverage has the best fans on the planet (been reading a lot of the comments). And may I say my own little pack of Grifters loved Sunday's ep. In fact, it was quite comical when my tv or cable glitched for a few seconds at several points in the show and we all gasped in unison with choruses of "Nooooo!" until picture was restored and sighs of relief were heard.
I have to say I love the baby steps you're taking with Parker while not underestimating her either (she is the world's greatest thief, after all, you learn or you get caught in that business). And this is a simply delicious look into how her mind works, which begs the question: Does she or will she have a Hardison notebook and would he be greatly disturbed or impressed by what he might find there? :P And would that mean Parker plans to steal his soul?
PS. If the writers(or any Cast or Crew, really) ever need Lackeys while they're in Portland next season, I have a little Pack of Grifters ready and willing to help, with a variety of(mostly geeky) skills. Pay-free as schedules permit. One's even a barista(/Jewelry maker/pastry chef/costumer, she does everything).
@Kate: And would that mean Parker plans to steal his soul?
She's already stolen our souls!
This occured to me on my second watch-through. The bug they planted in the AG's office, under the lamp...what happens to it? Does Parker have to somehow sneak back into the office and retrieve it before it's found? Does it self-combust? Or does Hardison just do his magic so it can never be traced to the team if it is found?
It just occured to me that the team plants all sorts of bugs in places, and someone eventually msut find one or two of them.
1) Just wanted to say that however unintentional the Sarah Palin comparisons were meant to be, Skagway, Alaska remains the childhood home of Palin and home of the one and only (to my knowledge) Sarah Palin store. I know because I just took a cruise there.
Why do I mention that? Because Sophie did when she talked about the Skagway shuffle.
I don't care about politics, so allusions to Palin, intended or not, didn't register that much, but I just found that amusing and wondered if your writing staff knew that when they wrote that line.
2) I'm so digging the mentoring scenes between Sophie and Parker this season. Definitely keep that up. I love how they're all growing.
I'm having so much fun with Leverage I almost can't stand it. Thank you for just plain awesome entertainment, and for walking that thin line between giving the fans what they want and pandering to them.
My one question for this episode is: What did Hardison say to Eliot just before he went into the mine that had him smile a genuine smile? I've played it back over and over and I can't figure it out. Thanks!
Donna, he said, "Go with God," grabbed Eliot's hand and pulled him into a hug. Then, when Eliot growled and pulled away, Hardison said, "For morale, man!" (a callback to Gone Fishin').
That's what made Eliot smile.
I don't know if it's too late to add a question here, but I noticed upon rewatching this that the scene where Hardison and Sophie went down to do the initial "dust readings", the score playing over that scene was from detroit hip hop group "Slum Village"'s song "Tainted".
Wondering if that's something that is done often and I JUST NOW picked up on it, or if there was any specific reason why that bit of music was chosen to do as a part of the score?
Thanks!
Hopefully, it's not too late to get answers on this one, I'll post some of them again later just to be on the safe side. Thanks a lot for doing this!
Lots of questions on this one - I'll separate them into chunks....
A)Purchase your own politician-
This is another case where buying an politician is better than doing the actual work so I wanted to know if you could fill me in on the
Attorney General vs Congressman comparison
Which is...
....cheaper?
....more effective? (bang for your buck)
....more wrong/evil?
....more useful
....more likely to make Hardison throw up a little in his mouth?
B)Parker: Baby Grifter
Will Parker ever be the Fiddle?
Will Parker ever be the head of a con? (With Nathan or Sophie's help) We had a little taste of that in the Juror # 6 Job and The Inside Job - she brought them in
but they were immediately handed over to Sophie or Nate. And she's come a long way in a grift perspective. Is it easier for her when the mark is female?
C) Scary Sophie
How do the marks miss the "You are digusting" tones i.e. Sophie's "You're going to make a lot of bucks" I know it's T.V. but she gave me chills. Do marks not have a sense of self-presevation?
D)Eliot the Miner
Why is it always Eliot who gets lost in the con (baseball, singing, coal mining?) Do you chose him on purpose or does it just happen organically?
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