Monday, March 16, 2009

SciFi Changes Its Name to "SyFy"

From Television Week:

“The name Sci Fi has been associated with geeks and dysfunctional, antisocial boys in their basements with video games and stuff like that, as opposed to the general public and the female audience in particular,” said TV historian Tim Brooks, who helped launch Sci Fi Channel when he worked at USA Network.

Mr. Brooks said that when people who say they don’t like science fiction enjoy a film like “Star Wars,” they don’t think it’s science fiction; they think it’s a good movie.

“We spent a lot of time in the ’90s trying to distance the network from science fiction, which is largely why it’s called Sci Fi,” Mr. Brooks said. “It’s somewhat cooler and better than the name ‘Science Fiction.’ But even the name Sci Fi is limiting.”

Mr. Howe said going to Syfy will make a difference.

"You know, as a 35 year old woman, I wasn't going to watch SS DOOMTROOPER because it was on that icky SciFi network. But now that it's on SyFy, I think something called SS DOOMTROOPER might be something I'd enjoy, and I should give it a try."

The new logline is "Imagine Greater." Which is syntactically equivalent to "Make-believe good-er."

The sad thing is that when their ratings continue to climb -- as SciFi is mainstreamed more and more, and more people seek it out on the television in the one place it is reliably presented -- they will believe it's due to this marketing campaign, rather than a larger generational and cultural shift. And the inability of people in suits to understand that correlation does not imply causation will go uncorrected yet again.

The temptation to type something that would effectively end my career with this network is well-nigh overwhelming. But this is the new, non-dickish John Rogers, and I will simply note that I have no control over what you say in the Comments.


R.A. Porter said...

I've got to disagree with you on this. It's not a matter of the 35-year-old woman thinking SS DOOMTROOPER sounds appealing on the new SyFy network, it's that now it's easier for the network to continue its niche-drift away from science fiction programming and into...something else. No longer will shows like SCARE TACTICS or ECW Wrestling seem out of place and there's really no reason to ever air something called SS DOOMTROOPER again.

Just like TNN was rebranded as Spike and shifted from its original programming to what it is today, this name change gets rid of the final impediment in NBCUni's way. BSG ends on Friday; how many SF shows does that leave on the network? Two? Three? Easy pickins.

The network has been shifting further from SF programming for quite some time. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see them use the new name as the wedge they need to abandon it completely.

I wrote about this last year, in the context of a programming decision that annoyed me, but this move makes me think I was more prescient than I realized.

Tara said...

Considering it took legions of women sending in bras in the 1990s to Bonnie Hammer to convince her that single women 18-35 with considerable disposible income did indeed watch FarScape, I continue to simply *facepalm*.

(That said, I will be forever grateful for SFC's existence solely becasue it meant I got to watch ABC's "Probe" again back in the 1990s, having faield to videotape it the first time around. Mickey Castle and Austin James FTW, people. FOR THE WIN.)

I continue to blame the French for Invisible Man getting cancelled, tho.

Canadian Lemming said...

I think the real question on everyone's mind is, when will the new season of Ureeka begin?

Richard Jensen said...

You know that somewhere, Harlan Ellison is banging his head against a desk going "Damn you, Forry! DAMN YOU".

Phil Nelson said...

I'm finding it almost impossible to be angered by this. From, at least, a marketing standpoint, it's a much better name than the generic "Sci Fi". Less confusing to viewers, search engines, etc, etc.

Plus, as others have noted, it's been a long way from exclusive science fiction for many years.

And to be honest, SS DOOMTROOPER probably sucks, no matter who is going to watch it.

Though I do agree with John re: broader cultural shift. Suits is suits. For the most part, they have to be (or at least act) dumb to succeed.

Ingrid said...

But will they keep "The most dangerous night of television"? because noticing which combination of super-modified giant beasties is killing soldiers and medieval women on Saturday is one of the highlights of my weekend. Not that I watch the movies. All the way through. More than once. Seriously though, those flics are like anti-science-fiction; Science is always the Path to Death. So maybe they would fit in nicely with the new corporate policy (same as the old corporate policy).

Emily Blake said...

If this is so they can justify showing more wrestling in the middle of the night, I'm gonna throw a grenade onto the Warner lot.* I'm not a geeky boy who lives in his mom's basement and I still watch SciFi because I have a brain of my very own and can make the distinction.

*I will not actually do this.

Clockworkjoe said...

Don't worry about Harlan Ellison. There are 387.44 million pages of spec scripts that fill his house. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate he feels for corporate suits at this micro-instant for the word sy-fy. Hate. Hate.

Ysabel said...

The sexism in the stated justification makes this Worldcon member and long-time science fiction reader grind my teeth and want to do fairly painful things to the men saying it.

direwraithe said...

"SyFy" = "Screw You AND F%&K You!" to the fans that help them mainstream in the first place.

Alternately "Sigh, Feh" would be acceptable.

Benjamin said...

Somewhere in there is a joke about syfyllis.

Rob said...

Syfy? Is that that network I'll have no plausible excuse to ever watch again after next weekend?

@Rogers: "The new logline is "Imagine Greater." Which is syntactically equivalent to "Make-believe good-er."

A roughly parallel syntax served Apple quite well many years ago.

In fact, my mental image is of one Syfy marketing drone saying, "funny, we never thought of that" while another glances at the ceiling and whistles innocently.

Not that I think it will work for them.

Richard Jensen said...

Clockworkjoe: Me-ouch!

Also, can I state for the record that I miss the dickish John Rogers?

Cunningham said...

And they wonder why the collective language score on the SAT keeps dropping...

But why are we surprised? This is from the same (shallow end of the) gene pool which gave us Hulu.

kkisser said...

I've said for years that it would be nice for there to be a dedicated cable channel that just shows science fiction programming. Hasn't been one in years and by the looks of things, this will continue. SyFy has just made it easier to claim they never were about that anyway. Which means, as of 11pm Friday, I will no longer have nay reason to watch them.

But then, I'm in the process of setting up my home computer media center, so that soon, I will no longer be bound by the tyranny of network programming anyway. And by the time SyFy wonders where all their nerdy viewers went, it'll be too late. (hint to SyFy: look online, you'll find me there).

Benjh said...

Since everyone seems to be subdued, let me type probably what you have in mind.
This is a fucking joke (fraking, fine). So now they're not only ashamed of who they are, they also decide to throw away millions of dollars into stupid marketing agencies to come up with an incredibly dumb name and even dumber tag.

Sonja said...

I agree with Benjamin, my first thought would be 'wow, there's a Syphillys channel now. I really don't want to know about their programing'. I'm reminded of the Corner Gas episode where they wanted to build 'The world's biggest hoe'.

From a marketing standpoint, I get the idea, but then again just changing the spelling but keeping the same name phonetically is lazy, uncreative and in this case visually unaesthetic.
It's like Viennese music club Rockhaus. They changed their name to Planet Music hoping more non-Heavy Metal fans would come to the gigs but only succeeded in part because you still had to bring rubber boots to be able to go to the toilet and negotiate with their stuck-in-the-80s-staff to get a drink.
Half-assedness never gets you anywhere.

Grant said...

The "Siffy" network? Way to go overpaid marketing types....

Sean Fagan said...

My response was, and still is: "The stupid hurts!"

I thought this was a joke when I first heard it yesterday. Then I found out it wasn't. (Mind you, this is the same weekend that I read a review of Race to Witch Mountain, on, that said it was too stupid to watch. The irony there is nigh unmeasurable.)

The stupid from this only stopped hurting after I watched The Simpsons for some reason. And then I had new stupid to hurt me.

Anastasius said...

For thousands of years the name drama has been associated with old guys with beards and long white hair, running around in togas and touching little boys in their nono spots as opposed to...

I need to get me one of those CEO jobs.

Brian said...

See this opens all sorts of sister channels tho:
SighFi- for romantic scifi
Skiffy- for kids scifi
ScifEye- Science Fiction Detectives
SciFey- if they bring back Dresden

Embrace the Stupid!

impworks said...

I'm wondering if this isn't all part of a very clever marketing plan to launch the new TV series Seventeen Days - a spin off of 7 Days...

A group of TV executives and marketing gurus can't find a way to prove the point of their existance in a corporation during a massive downturn in ad revenue. After a series of failed brainstorming sessions don't find a meanigful change they can they instead go with making random ones to prove they are worth their big pay packets. This announcement is only the first of a series of bizzare events. Later ones will involve Apple trademarking the lowercase letter "i" and forcng google to mplement DRM to prevent anyone else usng the leter. Microsoft will announce their leaving the computer business and that they've bought a white cat, a big leather arm chair and a map of the world with lights on it for Phase 3 of their plan.

These actions results on Aprl 1st 2009 in the end of Geek civilization. This might not be a bad thing but as all the technology breaks down over a period of weeks civilization slips back to the early 20th century. Fortunately some heroic Americans (or a Brit or Australian who can do a good imitation of an American accent) is sent back a fortnight and a bit in time to stop the press release ever going out and thus save the whole of the human race from having to use clockwork watches...

Tim W. said...

After reading the post, I assumed it was a joke. This is a joke, right?

steele said...

It's a trademark issue - all of the rest is "reporting" to spice up a dull story.

You can't trademark Sci Fi, so anyone can have a Sci Fi Channel.

- Bill

jimhenshaw said...

When I was in high school "Siffy" was the short form of Syphilis.

Do you have to completely turn off your brain to be in marketing?

Stellar Drift said...

Later Mr. Geekbody admitted in the little bar around the corner, that the brass was tired of being asked why nothing they were showing was scifi.

"Now", he said while sniffing mouthwash on a potato peeler, "we can show things like Zombie Housewives in Heat - a topical treatise on global warming, without being besieged by the trek freaks."

Ah, if only he knew the economy will smite TV in about 3 years time.

Dave Shepherd said...

I guess a network that takes 6 years to tell a 4 season story can’t list “sensible decision-making” as their forte. How does embracing this particular moronic linguistic trend distance it in any way? It still reads the same, thus carrying exactly the same connotations they are apparently distancing themselves from. It’s about as effective as encouraging a basement dwelling nerd to change his habits by relocating him to the attic.
“Mr. Brooks said that when people who say they don’t like science fiction enjoy a film like “Star Wars,” they don’t think it’s science fiction; they think it’s a good movie.”
So if the various science fiction creators generated more quality content (perhaps even with better budgets & meaningful, constructive network support), it might attract a wider fanbase? As someone partial to the genre without being an out and out buff, I’d argue that there is a shitload lot of poorly constructed, lazy science fiction that cheapens the genre as a whole. While far from a convert, even my decidedly anti-sci-fi wife acknowledges the dramatic qualities of shows like Firefly and BSG.

Dave Shepherd said...

not to mention a shitload of poorly constructed posts. Oh for an edit button

Liz said...

I really, really thought this was just a joke, until I started seeing it everywhere online.

Every few weeks, NBC sends me a viewer survey, to ask about my viewing habits*. Lately, all that they want to ask me about are shows like Top Models. Because apparently, women only watch stuff like that. You think that if I started telling them I was male, instead of female, they would actually ask for my opinion on interesting programming like BSG?

*I got on their Viewer Panel by going to the Feedback page on NBC's website.

Michael Bourgon said...

" 'Imagine Greater' Profits"

There you go.

Michael Bourgon said...

" 'Imagine Greater' Profits"

There you go.

Howard said...

This jazz pianist gets a gig playing happy hour at one of these upscale lounge/bistro joints. Two hours a night, five nights a week, and it ends at 7:30 which is early enough for him to take nightclub gigs when he's through. It pays scale plus free drinks and a meal off the lunch menu.

The only problem is, the piano hasn't been serviced in ages. It's out of tune, the hammers are worn down, and the action is sloppy and inconsistent. By the third night on the gig, it's driving him crazy, and while he's on break he pulls the owner aside for a talk.

"Look, man, I need to talk to you about something."

"Oh?," says the owner. "Is everyone taking care of you okay? Can I get you a drink or something? Do I need to talk to the bartenders? Can I just say that we're really, really happy with your music? You really class up the place."

"Oh, no, man, no. Nothing like that -- you cats have been great. It's just -- it's just, we need to talk about the piano."

The owner looks thoughtful for a moment, and says, "You know, you're not the first person to mention that, and I want you to know that we've already made the arrangements. We're having it painted next week."

Lydia said...

Wait, what did the *French* do to the Invisible Man?

As a woman who likes actual science fiction programming, I continue to be irritated by the implication that you can only bring in us XX-chromosome types with Ghost Hunters or ... you know, I don't even know how to end that sentence, because I don't even know what they think women watch. Didn't women watch the hell out of the Dresden Files?

Screw it, I've got a perfectly good Sci-Fi Channel boycott going anyway.

Fierce Pika said...

1. Meaninglessly stupid name change, except possibly for trademark purposes, as suggested above. LAME.

2. SciFi Channel apparently just likes to piss away money on their "Sci Fi Originals" movies. I haven't been able to watch more than ten minutes of any one of those, because they are really just beyond stupid. It positively sickens me that this stuff even gets made in the first place—imagine having a whole network and state of the art effects backing in-house stuff written no doubt by the sort of idiots who wrote "Death Bed: The Bed That Eats People" or "Night of the Lepus" (seriously, this is the level of quality we're talking about).

Perhaps cultural and generational shifts will eventually hold sway, but I don't think that's coming soon. Betcha anything the suits' takeaway from Watchmen's middling box office is not "disingenuous marketing" and "plot and pacing fall apart in the second (very slow) half of the film," their takeaway will be "I guess the public doesn't like dark superhero films. We shall never take a risk again."

James said...

Since when did the SciFi Channel find themselces limited to the SciFi genre?

They play RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK on that channel all the damn time.

Lee said...

"Since when did the SciFi Channel find themselces limited to the SciFi genre?

They play RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK on that channel all the damn time."

Which is based on a true story, as any fule kno.

Mike Cane said...

Right, I'll be the Dick then. I'm not afraid.

First, all you people who trotted out the fucking Marketing 101 excuse: Please RESIGN from the Internet, NOW!

Second, oh I noted their contempt just as you did, Rogers: This Is Called Contempt

Third, Nikki Finke again understands the Suit Machinations: ZUCKERED: SciFi Channel And Website To Waste Money Being Rebranded As "Syfy"

Fourth, hey you Suits, good luck marketing to the world of your new audience. You can see them now up close every goddammed day. They appear on The Maury Show. Who's YOUR Daddy, motherfucker?

Mary Sue said...

I read comic books and scifi novels, I watch shows with spaceships and explosions, I bathe regularly and maintain a full time job, the proceeds of which I use to pay rent in a location very distant from my parents and since I do not have kids, the rest goes to the aforementioned comic books and scifi novels.

Oh, and I have breasts.

I'm your target demographic, Network! Why have you done everything in your power to drive me away?

I'm not sad one bit I got rid of my cable.

Eureka will be out on DVD soon, right? RIGHT?!?!

Mary Sue said...

ACK. I just read the article linked so I could make fun of the stupid over at my blog, and I found this lovely bit:

Sci Fi is coming off the best year in its history. In primetime it ranked 13th in total viewers among ad-supported cable networks in 2008. It’s a top-10 network in both adults 18 to 49 (up 4%) and adults 25 to 54 (up 6%).

Wow. So, yeah, let's just change EVERYTHING about the network because that will, of course, make us betterer!

And let's insult a major portion of our current fan base while we do it!

DougBot said...

This is the network that killed Farscape, they never understood MST3K, they simply have no idea why people watch. Instead they make cheap drive-in movie crap like Mansquito and wrestling.

Pursuing a demographic at the cost of whatever network identity you used to have must make sense on some level. After all there is ample precedent--note how 97.1 KLSX in LA dumped its all-talk format in favor of bland top-40 crap. (On the other hand, this has led to Adam Carolla setting new podcast download records for the last three weeks, so maybe they regret that decision...)

adc1966 said...

Yeah, I think "SyFy" had better hold off on the new business cards and signage, unless they really think it's better to be associated with syphilis than with basement-dwelling nerds. I guess they reason that at least syphilis victims have had sex.

What we're seeing here is the death of narrowcasting -- of channels dedicated to just one specific thing. This particular event probably came about because Sci-Fi execs got tired of explaining why they show wrestling on a science fiction network: because the wrestling makes money, and their goal is not to show science fiction programming, but to make money.

Same reason they have poker tournaments on the Travel Channel and "Ice Road Truckers" on the History Channel.

They'll all soon move to be like TNT is now... just a TV channel that will show whatever programs their viewers seem to want to watch. Smaller budgets, but more free rein for the creators and no pressure to post a 10-share every week. Shows like "Leverage" can thrive in an atmosphere like that, and soon people like Fuller and Whedon and Thomas and Sorkin -- who turn out great shows but can't catch a break these days on the major networks -- will be permanently setting up camp there as well.

And the major networks will be left to their reality programming and big procedural franchise shows.

Andy M said...

To expound on Steele's comment, it is all about trademark. "SciFi" is not specific to the network. Any TV show, DVD box, T-Shirt, book, etc. could call itself SciFi. That would mean that Battlestar Galactica DVDs and say, TekWars videogame would look alike.
Now that the network is "SyFy" they can make sure that their products stand out. They can sell games, or put their new logo on Adama action figures or put out SyFy wristbands.
Trademark explains the decision. It's still self-defeating, since scifi is a way to explain what the channel is and make it stand out. But now it's explainable.

Theliel said...

if it wasn't for rumors of Bigby the Cannibal ( I can hear the banjos now) being in Stargte Universe i don't think I'd continue watching sci-fi channel at all.

I get more actual science fiction from fox (fringe) and cbc/bbc

Reuter said...

There's a certain poetry to the idea of the Sci-Fi Channel dying with Battlestar Galactica. Course, dirty limericks are also technically poetry, but what the hell.

At least it'll finally force them to change up their booth at SDCC, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Fuck it. Real SciFi is something you have to read, because it exposes ideas that aren't televisable. TV "SciFi" usually means horror, monsters and the supernatural. What's left is Space Opera. Which is just a Westerns or Naval Adventure with a bunch of stars painted on the backdrop. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As an aside, TV is perfect for magical realism. But it's only used its natural advantages there for The Twilight Zone and Northern Exposure (that I can think of).

Glenn Hauman said...

If this is so they can justify showing more wrestling in the middle of the night, I'm gonna throw a grenade onto the Warner lot.*

*I will not actually do this.

Please don't. The network is actually owned by NBC/Universal. Get your targets straight.

So let's see... four different logos and three different network names in under a decade. Well done.

Compare the brand identity and loyalty to the fanbase to, oh, I don't know, ESPN-- the most lucrative cable network going. There's a lesson there, bozos.

Sonja said...

jimhenshaw said...
Do you have to completely turn off your brain to be in marketing?

Nope, some of us actually use their brains. Might be why we don't make the big bucks though.

Cunningham said...

A couple of points:

- Those movies on Sat. Night? SciFi Originals? Excuse me, SyFy Orygynals? They make a lot of money for the network. A lot. You may not like them. You may laugh at them. But either way you're watching them.

So don't fuck with the Mansquito or The Hammerhead.

- They, like many other networks somehow think that SciFi is beneath them. It's snobbery. They want to be taken seriously instead of appealing to their audience, and taking pride in that.

Because to be a "niche" network catering to a loyal fanbase with a healthy disposable income and merchandisable tastes is somehow beneath them.

They want an Emmy, and they don't understand that doesn't happen at the executive level - it happens when the executives step back and let the creatives do their best job. HBO won all their accolades precisely because they stepped back and played the supporting role.

Anonymous Bosch said...

I'm confused. Aren't 'Sy-Fy' and 'Sci-Fi' pronounced the same way, thereby having the exact same pale-fat-no-friends-dark-stuffy-bedroom connotations?

If they really want to get people watching, (including their sexist idea of what women actually watch), then stop making absolutely brain-dead bottom-feeding dreck.

It's the place to go for stinky-worthy adaptations of 'Sci-Fi' classics that insult the original authors, and cheap CGI monster-of-the-week blather.

'Eureka' and 'Battlestar Galactica' were just bizarre quality accidents.

Mac said...

... and in related news, White Star Lines has announced the rebranding of one of their cruise ships, rumoured to be facing difficulties in the mid Atlantic.

"The new name 'Tytanyc', the company announced, will help customers identify the trademark better in the sinking marketplace.

Insiders are also expecting to a new logo and slogan for the deckchair arrangement team.

Arakasi said...

I was talking about this at work yesterday and realized although SyFy is lame, I would definitely watch a network named:
y∫ f(y)

(that almost looks right in preview - lets hope it post correctly)

SF said...

I had thought the main reason for the name change was because they could not legally own "SciFi". The spin they're putting on the new branding is just to take advantage of the inevitable media attention they were going to get from the name change.

Mike said...

I'm guessing the new name was inspired by the head of marketing's late night encounter with a 'cocktail waitress' named TyffNE.

Winterman said...

I think it's just weird. Whatev, y'know?

Andy M said...

A snarky list of other possible rebranding names. I enjoyed it.

Wil said...

BLESS YOU for bringing this up. I read about the change and my first reaction was, omfg you have to be kidding me. The whole thing is just asinine. Sci Fi was one of the last sacred places on the outskirts of mainstream commercialism, which is what made it so great! I suppose now that said commercialism is closing in, and bringing with it some perks don't get me wrong, the idiocy of the all mighty buck and those who think they can make it comes with the territory. Blahhh...

Wil said...

Whew looks like the core base agrees - check out these comments on about the absurdity of the change:

Robert N. Emerson said...

It's trademarkable BS, is what it is. It's the yellow oval around the Bat symbol, regardless of the "extra body armor" crap that they said, it's all about money and trademark.

It's stupid, in my opinion, as well as insulting, but it's their choice to do it. Like folk have said, it's going to cause a drift away from the Network's core and root viewership, but that seems to be the sign of evolution in business today. My who issue is that 'SyFy' just looks stupid and reminds me of leet and texting speak, which annoys me to no end.

We'll see what happens, but I hope it backfires on them and we either get SciFi back or else someone else launches a SciFi type network. It's my hope that the channel will learn solid lessons from BSG and we get some good stuff down the pipe as the geek finishes the cultural saturation that we're at, but who knows.

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Andrew said...

I have only one thing to say on this subject...

"Here comes the Fun Cooker!"

Gaute said...

“Go back to bed, America, your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!”
-Bill Hicks

Dumbing down TV even more.

GuyFromOhio said...

imagine having a whole network and state of the art effects backing in-house stuff written no doubt by the sort of idiots who wrote "Death Bed: The Bed That Eats People" or "Night of the Lepus"

Shit! I missed "Death Bed"!

I guess I need to spend more time watching the syphyllis channel.

Anonymous said...

What a missed opportunity.

They could have called it Spec! TV.


Damien said...

So. Very. Stupid.

just-ruth said...

I'm a forty-eight year old woman who has enjoyed science fiction for years and I find that comment highly insulting.

Anonymous said...

The sad truth is that the SciFi channel (in my experience) is run as a stepping stone in NBC/Universal's corporate hierarchy so it tends to be controlled by people who neither (a) like nor (b) understand science fiction. They're just trying to make a mark, make a profit, and get out of there to a more prestigious rung of the corporate ladder.

But, as others have noted, this seems to be part of the bizarre trend that's driving all the once clearly differentiated and branded cable channels (Discovery, AMC, Spike! nee' TNN, "SyFy", etc.) seem to be scrambling towards some generic mythical middle that seems to consist of quippy reality shows and the occasional "edgy" drama.

VB said...

THIS IS SOOO FUNNY!! Check it out!!

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Cara Mengobati Kutil Kelamin Pada Pria dengan mengunakan obat kutil kelamin herbal sehingga tanpa Operasi sembuh total karena saya sangat takut apabila mendengar kata operasi apakah ada pengobatan kutil kelamin yang dapat dicegah dari rumah untuk menyingkirkannya? Apa ada perawatan yang baik untuk kutil kelamin manjur apakah ada solusi alami dalam perawatan yang

Anonymous said...

tersedia untuk memperlakukan kutil dengan sendiri? Mungkin ini semua pertanyaan yang mungkin Anda pertanyakan pada diri Anda sendiri jika saat ini Anda memilki kutil Berikut dibawah ini pembahasan dari cara mengobati kutil kelamin tanpa operasi dengan menggunakan obat kutil kelamin tradisional paling manjur aman

Anonymous said...

bagi ibu yang sedang hamil ataupun untuk ibu yang sedang menyusui segera kontak kami untuk mendapatkan obat kutil kelamin terbaik de nature serta paling manjur cara mengobati kanker payudara dengan menggunakan obat kanker payudara paling manjur terbuat dari daun keladi tikus sarang semut serta dari daun sirsak insyaalah tanpa operasi kanker payudara dapat sembuh dengan cepat | obat wasir wasir | obat kutil kelamin segera kontak kami untuk mendapatkan pengobatan yang terbaik dari klinik herbal de nature