Thursday, December 04, 2008

If I May Agree With Rick Mercer ...

... fuck the Governor-General on general principle, and double-fuck the current one.

Thank God an unelected figurehead appointed by another unelected figurehead from a whole other country managed shut down the entire government of a sovereign nation before things spiralled out of hand and erupted in a mess of, of ... violent parliamentary motions. Why, there could have been shouting.

[Canadian hat] Why we don't reclaim that land, raze the building and build a public park, I have not a goddam clue.[/canadian hat]

On the other hand, I have to sincerely admit -- way to work the refs, Harper. I never liked it when people called him Bush Lite. He was and has always been way, way smarter than President Bush.

74 comments:

Kin Jee said...

Man, I didn't think you were paying attention to the crap north of the border. Thanks for making me laugh.

Kin.

Anonymous said...

Another great moment in the annals of Governor General-hood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dismissal

I know this is a hijack, but it's kinda related: 80% of Australians support becoming a republic. The only reason the referendum to become one failed is that the monarchist PM at the time (JW Howard) decided to split the Republican question vote with three questions: monarchy, popularly elected president or appointed president. With a 75% pass mark, all it took was 5% of the population to support Mr Pop President and the Republic was doomed.

Good news is, AFAIK all current political leaders support a Republic, so with any luck we can break away from this ludicrous imperial overhang sometime soon.

Anonymous said...

I thought a houseplant was smarter than George W. Bush. Harper worries me, but I think the whole lot of them need to be smacked upside the head and told to grow up and do the jobs they were elected to do.

Anonymous said...

Holy crap, has Canadian politics always been this interesting?

Tim W. said...

While Michaëlle Jean is technically appointed by the Queen, she was picked by former PM, Paul Martin. And I don't really blaming her for making history and saying no to Harper. While, technically, it is up to the Governor General, that's more ceremonial.

What bugs me about the whole thing is how the Conservatives are saying that the electors picked the government and it's undemocratic what the other parties are doing. Uh, anyone who's taken Canadian Politics 101 knows that we don't actually vote for a government. We vote for individual members of Parliament and it's up to Parliament to decide on a government. And that's what they are doing. What the Conservatives are doing is undemocratic. They're trying to hold onto power despite parliamentary rules and the rules of Canadian democracy.

Plus, more than 60% of Canadians voted for a party OTHER than his Conservatives. Does he really think people are going to rise up against the Coalition? Everyone I know were thrilled when they heard about it. Of course everyone I know didn't vote for them, so that might have something to do with it.

Tim W. said...

Richard Jensen: "Holy crap, has Canadian politics always been this interesting?"

God, no. I joked to a few people that I figured that Ottawa conspired to do this because they were sick of being overshadowed by American politics.

This Is Me Posting said...

Richard Jensen: "Holy crap, has Canadian politics always been this interesting?"

Hell yes. Canadian politics have always been just as interesting as US politics - if not more so. Man, our country almost fell apart TWICE. Beat that, USA! (And we're supposed to be such friendly people...)

Also: Thanks John, for making me laugh for the first time at this whole ridiculous situation.

Anonymous said...

A little correction:

And I don't really blaming her for making history and saying no to Harper.

Sorry Tim W, you got it backwards: she said yes to the PM.

"Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean has granted a request from Prime Minister Stephen Harper to suspend Parliament until late next month [...]"

Can't really blame her for that either, though. It's pretty much the job description, really :-)

I agree that the position is useless but blaming the GG in this case is like blaming the tool instead of the wielder.

If we didn't have a Governor-General, I'm sure Mr. Harper would have found an other... novel way to cling to power.

Shan said...

I admit I didn't know the word prorogue until today, but what a chess match this has been. I mean, the coalition is totally fair and logical, and I am in the minority of people that truly LIKES Stephane Dion. Harper was the one who didn't want to allow parliament to work, trying to cripple the other parties, so he brought this upon himself.

I am not up to speed though. Now we wait and then what?

It would make sense if the Liberals used this timeout to find their leader. I think that some people giving them flak just don't like Dion and don't want Dion to be PM, so fine, don't give him that opportunity.

In any case, Harper might have hit the pause button, but he's still going to lose this fight when the game unfreezes.

As for the refs, John, I'm tying to understand how Harper finagled that one, too.

The Conservative gameplan has got to be to come up with a budget, further make the Liberals, Dion and the coalition sound like a terrible, unconstitutional and undemocratic swindle of our votes... play the Bloc party card as much as possible. I don't see how they could force another election, it wouldn't prove anything we don't already know. Maybe if he can make the claim that the coalition is being unreasonable in their non-confidence vote, he can create another twist? I don't know enough about Parliament.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm all for getting rid of the GG, but let's face it, this is the kind of mess you get when you combine:

- Extermination politics from the right: Cutting public funding for political parties? Please. You used to at least try to lie about it. Now, it's like you don't even care anymore!

- Impotent opposition leader: Stéphane Dion? Stéphane fricking Dion? How much booze was there at that leadership convention? I'm from Québec and a reasonably smart guy, I'm even something of a federalist, but that still makes no sense at all.

- Murky constitutional powers of the Governor General that are based mostly on unwritten conventions: There's a reason the Americans wrote that shit down. It comes in handy in those "They did what now?" moments. It's not clear that the GG could simply hand over power to the Coalition if the Conservatives lost a vote of confidence.

So the upside is that we get avoid another election in the middle of the Holidays. The downside is that we get to have 6 weeks of "No, you're undemocratic!", and we get to watch as the Coalition disintegrate. Too bad, they could have done something, but they've now been tarred beyond salvation by associating with the maudit séparatisss québécois!

Long term, maybe this can lead to a union of the left-wing parties. Maybe now they understand that the Conservatives don't just want to win, they want to rip their throats out and feast on their intestines.

About time...

DJ said...

“Jesus Holy in a hand basket”… you have been away forever…I had no idea you had accesses to and listened to Canadian conservative radio in LA. Really, Steven Harper is the victim in this…sorry a few deep knee bends there…few…few okay. Disagree or not…Stevo is correct.

Man you have been away to long.
Yes, It is the entirely the sovereignties fault. And thank you Mr. Rove sorry, Harper for planning my last campaign.

“Unelected figurehead”…yes, what better way to defend democracy then change the rules in midstream.

Really, Harper is simply not a bad politician that made a silly gambit for power that failed. No. That would be silly.

No. It the entirely the parliamentary system that fuck up.

Not Harper “not George of the north: what I am thinking…it is the process of unelected people. Nothing like the Supreme Court. Hold on that is nine uneleceted people. Well that is just inane…but in Canada one unelected powerful person is just stupid (Funny though we can count votes)….

That is just silly…it was the governor-generals fault. See the funny thing is we do not vote for a president…you already know that…and Steven Harper Is the Victim… the NDP and Liberals talking to the legitimated elected Bloc MP is…. is nuts


Jesus you have been away to long, “John Rogers” is backing Steven Harper …sorry I just threw up bit…dam our “Queen’ and all who represent our parliamentary rules.

Tim W. said...

DummyPlug:"And I don't really blaming her for making history and saying no to Harper.

Sorry Tim W, you got it backwards: she said yes to the PM."

There was supposed to be a "not" before "making history". She obviously did not make history.

Tim W. said...

Shan,

The Conservatives are hoping they can a) broker a deal with the Liberals to stay in power, b) come up with a budget impressive enough that enough Liberals would end up voting for it and stay their execution, and c) the citizens of Canada rise up and demand the Liberals and NDP back off. A and B are possibilities.

And Dion is a very smart, very good elected official, who got elected because of infighting in the party that stopped one of the two better options from being elected. Dion is good, but he's not really a leader. He's a great cabinet minister.

And the Liberals won't elect a new leader until May. It would be virtually impossible to try and organize a convention on such short notice and Canada doesn't hold and elections between December and March for obvious reasons.

Dwight Williams said...

Mme. Jean was going to make history, no matter what her decision ended up being. I can understand the need to give everyone - including herself - time to catch their breath and calm down. That certain of the party leaders seem likely to abuse it in order to insult our intellects - again - in the meantime is not her fault.

Also, we don't know if she didn't extract concessions out of Harper before agreeing to prorogue. Or what kind, if she did so.

As for the idea of the coalition taking the reins being "undemocratic"?

Meadow muffins! Others here and elsewhere on the web have already explained the logic behind my reaction quite well, James Laxer among them.

Dwight Williams said...

Trent: Respectfully, the King-Byng Precedent of 1926 says that "yes, she can" re: handing the reins over to the Coalition if she considers their alliance sufficiently stable. So it is "written down".

Christine Salter said...

Here's my interpretation re: proroguing Parliament. Basically, without any specific precedent or law clarifying what the GG should do, the GG should defer to the judgment of the PM. There is no precedent for proroguation requests while a confidence motion is pending, so it'd be a greater break with tradition for her to reject Harper's request than to support it.

Anonymous said...

Poor Harper. Didn't he ever learn that no one likes an ungracious loser?

But the upside is that you can visit a banana republic only a short car ride away. None of that pesky getting into an airplane and having to go where the palm trees can survive outdoors all year long.

I guess this means that those fancy terms like 'Commonwealth' 'Head of State' and 'Dominion' actually do mean something. Eventually.

Theliel said...

just when i'm uanble to really catch this hour has 22 and mercer report canada gets interesting again.

and i thought the days of the 'REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMM' party level awesumness were gone.

Anonymous said...

Dwight: There's a couple of differences between the current situation and King-Byng. Back then, King had 99 seats and relied on the support of the 24 seats of the Progressives. The opposing Conservatives had 116 seats. It made sense for Byng to let the Conservatives have a go, since they had numerical superiority. And they did manage to lose their first confidence motion.

Right now the Coalition has 114 seats, still less than the Conservative's 143. Add to that the leader of the Coalition is Stéphane Dion, who's not good enough to head the Liberal party, but somehow is enough of a leader to be Prime Minister? Shaky grounds, to say the least.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to have a go and my most fervent wish is that the Coalition does hold, but it's not that cut and dried, from where I'm standing. Although, I'll grant you that if you're the GG and you're going to prorogue parliament to prevent the government from facing a confidence motion, why not go the extra mile and just let the Coalition have a shot. As long as you're meddling, might as well go full monty, right? :-)

catnip said...

I am not up to speed though. Now we wait and then what?

Queue the Zamboni, of course.

Ryan Gerber said...

When I first heard parliament had been temporarily suspended, I thought for sure Harper had stepped in it. I mean, this is a Franco/Mussolini/Noriega/Musharraf type of move (trying very hard not to godwin myself).

And yet, in the last two days, despite rumblings on the internet I have yet to encounter another Canadian who thinks this is a bad thing. Support for the conservatives has gone up.

Harper is betting on the ignorance of the Canadian people. And he's winning.

Dwight Williams said...

Did anyone see Richard Gwyn's comments in the Toronto Star yesterday? He thought - and I'm tempted to agree, pending the publication of the memoirs of the involved parties - the GG managed to neatly avoid a Harperite trap.

Christine Salter said...

Ryan: Oh yeah, support for the Cons has gone up. But the polling numbers aren't as clear as all that... The quirky thing is that most people think Harper is to blame for the mess... Which means that there are a lot of people who think that Harper's to blame but still oppose the coalition.

Which in turn means that if the Libs can find some clever way to back down from the coalition (which they will if Iggy takes over, but not if Rae does), there's a strong possibility for the polls to wildly swing the other way. Especially since a lot of the anti-coalition sentiment is actually anti-Dion sentiment... Replace him, and it's a totally different ball game.

Anonymous said...

@catnip:
"Queue the Zamboni, of course."

LMAO!

Hawise Gadarn said...

I hate to disagree but an appointed Governor-General who acts as Head of State and Commander in Chief is a good idea. She is constitutionally required to listen to her elected Prime Minister but acts as a referee when the Parliament becomes untenable.

There were several ways that this thing could go but it had to follow procedure and Harper was inclined to play procedure for his own ends. The progrogation option is an affirmative one- she is required to say yes to her elected Prime Minister in the absence of a pressing reason to say no. This is where a relatively stable situation played against the Coalition. Unlike most of the other G8 and G20 nations, Canada is only on the brink of economic collapse and not actively collapsing, the war is an ongoing situation and not an emerging one and the political coalition alternative is not demonstrably more stable than the current one. With only two weeks before Christmas recess and the option to have a new Throne Speech and the budget announced in January instead of February, prorogation is a Canadian choice.

As much as I would like to see a progressive gouvernment in charge during s recession, I can understand the choice made by the G-G under the circumstances. It is for the coalition to make its case in the coming weeks because they have a confidence vote to make at the end of January.

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Dwight Williams said...

And six years later...do we want to revisit the topic, maybe?

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Obat Kutil Di Kemaluan WanitaHal inilah yang menjadi penyebab kenapa akhirnya banyak penderita yang mencoba berbagai solusi pengobatan herbal dan semacamnya. untuk cara pemesanana silahkan kunjungklik disin

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