Your monkey's Kung Fu is not strong ...
You know you never discussed what went down with that. I heard that the guys who did the Island were working on this, and I think you currently have story credit.Is that true? Care to (or can you) elaborate on what happened? I'm always curious as to how this whole "80 writers on a movie" thing comes about.
The trailer actually looks pretty good. I think I might have to take in this fine picture at the cinema when it comes out.And to sort of piggyback on the previous comment, I was wondering how much of what you wrote actually made it into the movie. You have a "story by" credit, but not a "written by" credit, right?So, yeah, how much is you and how much is the other two fellas? Or are you so far removed from actually working on the script that you don't even remember anymore?
Vaya con dios, man. I'm not sure there's enough booze in the world to make me voluntarily see a Michael Bay flick, but I hope it makes you bank and thensome.
Those aren't final credits, we still have to arbitrate. I'd moved on to SHIBUMI pretty fast after my draft, when Michael Bay came on the ISLAND guys (nice guys, btw) came with him.Ever since the early 90's there are rules about how many writers can actually get credit. That said, There were probably about ten active writers on CATWOMAN when all was said and done, and ironically the people who had the least amount of text in the script got the screen credits.(My contribution, as far as I know, was the gist of one scene, and one joke) Sucky movie, but hey, the residuals were okay. Makes getting hosed on MONTE CRISTO a little easier.As far as this movie, from what I've seen most of the human characters are either the same or similar, the main plot structure's the same, and a lot of the "how the Transformers work in our world" stuff is identical (why they look like earth vehicles, the proto-form, what they're here for, etc.) There's on main structural difference, and a chunk of different dialogue, but it's about half and half.
"The proto-form"? Did you rip off Beast Wars, sir?
The trailer doesn't show all that much. I have a feeling there's more here than meets the eye.
Dude, it's too bad Will Smith isn't in the movie. He could do a Transformers rap.
"The proto-form"? Did you rip off Beast Wars, sir?Sadly, thought I was inventing something, as I hadn't watched Beast Wars. That said, it solved a lot fo problems.
I might be a bit of a Bay apologist to begin with (BAD BOYS 2 is the closest we'll see to a Cat III HK flick) but I thought that trailer did a solid job of averting the tone of "kid's movie", instead presenting the impression of an "adult" movie... About huge robots punching each other and things detonating at regular intervals. Which, realistically, is all I (or anyone) should want from a Bay summer movie.
God, I hate Michael Bay. What a douche. Setting that aside though, the trailer looks sweet. I don't want to let myself get too excited about this movie, just in case he manages to ruin it somehow, but that trailer made it hard to NOT get excited.
Oh, and have we heard the story about getting hosed on Monte Cristo? I actually haven't seen that one, but I love the book (I'm about to re-read it because I got a "better" translation than the one I originally read) so now that I know you were involved, I'm extra curious.
I think it looks like flaming monkey ass and I have no faith that this movie will not suck. But it seems to be just me as most people I talk to are flipping over it.
Mr. E:Sir, I believe you are sorely underestimating the entertainment value of flaming monkey asses.Good Day to you!* * *The Perry Bible Fellowship does Transformers.
Well. More than meets the eye.
To the people who don't like the trailer, I'm confused and curious -- what exactly was it you were hoping or expecting to see? I mean, no matter how you slice it, TRANSFORMERS is about huge robots (based on toys!!) fighting each other, with mankind in the middle. This clip seems pretty on the nose to me...
Anon-Well to me, if your gonna try and cash in on my nostalgia, cash in on my nostalgia, and that requires them looking something like what they looked like when I was a kid. Getting my "hey I had those (toys/comics/whatever) and they rocked" dollar takes more than a name.
See, the thing about Transformers was that the humans were only an incidental (and annoying) part of the story. They provided human perspective and moral speeches sometimes, but the "heart" of transformers were the Transformer characters. The meglomaniac (Megatron), the Hero (Optimus), the crazy betrayer bad guy (Starscream), the old soldier (Rawhide), the little guy who tried hard (Bumblebee) etc etc...and yes, I still remember their names. And yes, it was a stupid cartoon in the 80's (but the comic was better, seriously. The writers would get frustrated having to put in the new toys all the time, so they kept screwing around with characters, like making an Autobot jet scared of heights)So any movie that focuses on the humans and lets the humans fill those types of roles isn't really Transformers per se...it's just super cool robots blowing shit up. Now, I hold out hope that the humans will remain entirely incidental characters with barely any dialogue, but I doubt it. That said, it looked cool on its own. but if there is one thing Bay can do, it's a trailer. Hell, most of his movies are 2 hour trailers. which is 1:55 too long for my tastes most of the time.
I think you may be overthinking it.Big robots (and they turn into CARS!). Big fights. Big explosions. Human commentary.OPTIMUS PRIIIIIIIIME!Maybe it'll be fun. It's possible, right?
This ain't Lord of the rings, folks. the source material is not a well crafted body of work, built up over the span of twenty years by a auture with a singular creative vision, meant to tell a tale of humanity. The Transformer's source material is a series of really long commercials for toys. Nothing more. As such, it's wide open for interpretation. Maybe Bay isn't exactly what we would have hoped for as the person to give that wad of unformed clay a shape (personally, I would love to see a Tim Burton Transformers) but it could be worse. It couldv'e been Joel Shumacker. Would yo really want to see transforming robots with a gay sub text?And as mentioned by several people above: things 'splode real good in that there movie. It'll sell millions.
John:I wish you luck with the WGA abrtration but I'll be honest. I ain't a big fan of the Bay.Let me put it to you this way. I sat through "The Rock" and "Armageddon". And after the latter, I realized that this was not a filmmaker I was going to grow old with. While I'll grant he has a strong compistional eye, he also tends to over cut his action sequences, favoring sensation over clarity, giving them all the flow of Bob Newhart at a freestyle rap contest. (Not to mention that the scene in "Armageddon" where Ben Affleck plays with the animal crackers on Liv Tyler's stomach was just stupid and boring. Nothing involving Liv Tyler's stomach should be stupid and boring! It's a sin against Nature!)But good luck to you sir. And are you talking about the Kevin Reynolds version of "Monte Cristo"?
Personally, I couldn't be happier with this right now (unless the Stan Bush song "Dare" from the animated movie had been arbitrarily stuck on the trailer).Michael Bay's pretty much my ideal director for this, and frankly, I really don't understand why so many people have so much against him. The Rock is the finest action film of the 90s (in all terms, not just asthetic) and Bay's style is a huge part of that. Next to Tony Scott, he's probably the best and most consistant high-tech action director we have - he's only stumbling so far has been Pearl Harbor (and having read that script, I actually will place a fair amount of blame there. Not all, but a fair amount.) Anyway, personally I think Bay is terrific.Hope you get screenplay credit and the residuals start rolling in, John.
As the official geek on the team, I was the one in charge of making sure that while there were spiffy human characters, that the Transformers were picked for their personalities, and that said personalities matched their animated tradition. For me, this was always a "Lost Patrol" movie, except the American soldiers are the Transformers, and the villagers with sticks are the humans. Trust me, mucho Transformer character work.
"Michael Bay's pretty much my ideal director for this, and frankly, I really don't understand why so many people have so much against him. The Rock is the finest action film of the 90s (in all terms, not just asthetic) and Bay's style is a huge part of that. Next to Tony Scott, he's probably the best and most consistant high-tech action director we have - he's only stumbling so far has been Pearl Harbor (and having read that script, I actually will place a fair amount of blame there. Not all, but a fair amount.) Anyway, personally I think Bay is terrific."To this, I have only one thing to say: Bad Boys 2. The only thing that got me through that horribly overblown pice of shit was a) I was drunk, and b) I could pause it to spew my hatred for it onto irc. The script was ludicrously bad, the direction was god-awful, favouring throwing a hundred edits per minute at you instead of giving you any sort of spatial orientation, and the miserable thing ran for two and a half hours.Two and a half goddamn hours. No brainless action flick has any excuse to cross the two-hour mark, no matter how good it is, and good this was not. And then there's the horrendously amoral rampage through the Cuban shanty town, but that's okay because they're all filthy communists anyway, right? And Armageddon was a jingoist piece of shit as well, albeit a pyrotechnically competent one.Just ughh.That said, The Rock a is genuinely good action movie, the kung-fu monkey is a clever monkey, and the trailer's quite good, so I remain cautiously optimistic on this one.
"And then there's the horrendously amoral rampage through the Cuban shanty town, but that's okay because they're all filthy communists anyway, right? And Armageddon was a jingoist piece of shit as well, albeit a pyrotechnically competent one."The amazing thing is, that sequence was lifted, -almost entirely-, from Jackie Chan's first 'Police Story'.
Not to turn this into a discussion, Soren (apoligies, I can't figure out how to do the .. in your name), but for me Bad Boys II is actually the ultimate expression of Bay's style. The opening sequence moves through a rapid succession of places and events without ever losing coherence. I never once have found myself confused spatially in a Bay film - if you want to see action truly done badly, try sitting through Torque (which really is a piece of shit) there are scenes in there where you don't even know who's in the room, let alone who's fighting who. Watching that movie made me WISH I was drunk.And the Cuban shanty town is clearly identified in dialogue as a storage facility for Tapia's drugs - hence the reason it goes boom big time when the Humvees race through it.But you like The Rock, so you're okay by me.I cannot wait to see full dialogue scenes between the Transformer characters. Awesome.
I've actually heard some fascinating stories concerning the production of BAD BOYS II and THE ISLAND (for example, we were apparently thisclose to getting Bay's version/variation of WAR OF THE WORLDS)... TRANSFORMERS seems to have largely gone without such drama, though I have no doubts I'll hear some after things are all wrapped up.
simon underwood: "The Rock is the finest action film of the 90s"That's a bold statement, especially considering that "Con Air" out-Rocks "The Rock," if only slightly.
The Rock has someone's face bubbling up from exposure to posion gas, whereas Con Air does not. Hence, The Rock is the better of the two films.
Con Air has Steve Buscemi as the scariest psycho on the plane. Therefor, Con Air is better.
Best of the 90s? Hard-Boiled and Terminator 2. Please come back, John Woo and James Cameron, we need you so very, very much.
Does the movie end with a cliff hanger?
Micheal Bay has never disapointed me. In fact I was disapointed by Armegeddon but it wasnt awful, much better than deep impact. The Rock was a very entertaining film. Bad Boys 2 had me entertained as well. I thought the Island would be garbage but showed the vivid imagination of Bay. And honestly he is the perfect fit for Transformers. Most of bays films are done rather quickly but they took their time with Transformers. If your not going to go see Transformers because its a Micheal Bay film then please do me a favor just stop making any opinions at all, since obviously your ignorant.
The Rock = entertainingArmageddon = sillyPearl Harbour = stupidThe Island = aint seen, but heard from numerous ppl that its terribleBad Boys 2 = boring, ego-trip filmThe trailer got me excited, but reminded me of the X-men 3 trailer, you can just tell it isnt gonna be quite what you wanted it to be.
Keith; who are you to decide that? Maybe it's not as objectively well written as the Lord of the Rings, but at the same time, the characters themselves are huge icons, which is just as important. It's not your place to decide how people should feel about a source material unless it really is complete tosh, which Transformers wasn't. It was a fun, cool concept with some great characters attatched to it. I'm just worried the movie won't be the same.
Kittie said:It's not your place to decide how people should feel about a source material unless it really is complete tosh, which Transformers wasn't.Have you seen any of the cartoons lately? I recently found an old VHS tape full of Transformers episodes form the eighties. I popped it in for a little nostalgia trip and was appalled at the simplistic plots, lame jokes and horrible animation. I wasn't expecting Shakespeare but seriously, each episode was a thirty minute commercial for toys.My point was that the Transformer's was never more than a vehicle for selling toys and that the movie cannot be held to the standards of LOTR, as an example, because it isn't even up to the standards of say, the Dukes of Hazard. Expecting it to transcend it's commercial origins is silly and just setting yourself up for disappointment.Which is not to say that this movie can't be enjoyable. Just have low expectations, which will be easily met. I will probably rent it on DVD and enjoy watching shit explode and cool vehicles turn into cooler robots. Then explode.
Anonyomous said:"They provided human perspective and moral speeches sometimes, but the "heart" of transformers were the Transformer characters. The meglomaniac (Megatron), the Hero (Optimus), the crazy betrayer bad guy (Starscream), the old soldier (Rawhide), the little guy who tried hard (Bumblebee) etc etc...and yes, I still remember their names."For someone who's supposed to remember the names...isn't it "Ironhide"? >.>
I sense intellectual snobbery going on!! Come on!! Keith dude!The transformers are fun!! I readKerouac and Tolstoy. But right now I am reading King. There is room for everything!! Damn them for not bringing soundwave aboard!
A question I have is whether they kill off characters like they did in the Batman movies. Will Megatron die in this movie? Will there be other movies? I don't think I could handle Optimus Prime's death a second time.
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