Saturday, April 01, 2006

Bernard McGuirk is a Big Man

I often get riled, but rarely angry. But ... all via our delightfully improbably friend Majikthise. First, read this:

The night before journalist Jill Carroll's release, her captors said they had one final demand as the price of her freedom: She would have to make a video praising her captors and attacking the United States, according to Jim Carroll.

In a long phone conversation with his daughter on Friday, Mr. Carroll says that Jill was "under her captor's control."

Ms. Carroll had been their captive for three months and even the smallest details of her life - what she ate and when, what she wore, when she could speak - were at her captors' whim. They had murdered her friend and colleague Allan Enwiya, "she had been taught to fear them," he says. And before making one last video the day before her release, she was told that they had already killed another American hostage ...

...

In fact, Carroll did what many hostage experts and past captives would have urged her to do: Give the men who held the power of life and death over her what they wanted.

"You'll pretty much say anything to stay alive because you expect people will understand these aren't your words," says Micah Garen, a journalist and author who was held captive by a Shiite militia in southern Iraq for 10 days in August 2004. "Words that are coerced are not worth dying over." ...

... Those who encountered Carroll in a professional context repeatedly praised her fairness and compassion, as demonstrated by some of the thousands of letters the Monitor has received in her support.

"Her professionalism and objectivity were unparalleled within the media community," Capt. Patrick Kerr, a Marine public affairs officer who got to know Carroll last December, when she spent a month with a Marine unit in Western Iraq, said in an e-mail. "I saw her in Husaybah, on the Syrian border, in early December shortly before I returned to the States. Aside from being very personable and down-to-earth, what really struck me was Jill's bravery. She seemed to fit right in with the marines and Iraqi security forces," he wrote in January.

That's how Marines serving their country in a combat zone talk about Jill Carroll.

In contrast, Executive Producer of Imus' Morning show, McGuirk, and their Cabin Boy McCord:


MCGUIRK: She strikes me as the kind of woman who would wear one of those suicide vests. You know, walk into the, try and sneak into the Green Zone.

IMUS: Oh, no. No, no, no, no.

MCCORD: Just because she always appears in traditional Arab garb and wearing a burka.

MCGUIRK: Yeah, what’s with the head gear? Take it off. Let’s see.

IMUS: No, no. This is not –

MCCORD: That’s why the Arab world called for her to be released, because, you know, she defended Iraqis. She was against the war in Iraq and, I wouldn’t be surprised if —

IMUS: Well, so are we. So am I!

MCCORD: Exactly. She cooked with them, lived with them.

IMUS: This is not helping.

MCGUIRK: She may be carrying Habib’s baby at this point.

[laughter]

IMUS: Shut up! I’m begging you to shut up. Both of you. I’m going to murder both of you.

MCCORD: Just because she slept with them doesn’t mean she slept in the manner he’s talking about.

MCGUIRK: Something stinks.

IMUS: You are an SOB Steve McCord. Stop it! I am begging you both. Stop it! Stop it now! Stop it! This is outrageous.

That's how REMFs sitting in pleated chinos a half a world away from danger talk about Jill Carroll.

How, exactly, did that pre-show conversation go? "Hey, guys, I've got this great idea! This woman, who has so much more nutsack than any of us in this room that she's actually put herself in the line of fire, who's been praised for her bravery by fucking MARINES, who got her friend's brains splattered over her face when they kidnapped her, who's sitting there, terrified, and told to just read some words so just maybe they WON'T SAW HER FUCKING HEAD OFF WITH A KNIFE at least for today, let's mock her."

"I like it. Hey, who took the last jelly donut!"

"Sonuvabitch. The sacrifices we make."

From what I understand, Bernard McGuirk has two kids. That must make for some interesting dinner conversation.

"What do you do for a living, Daddy?"

"Daddy makes fun of heroes, sweetheart."

Daddy makes fun of heroes.

You sad, sad little shell of a man.

40 comments:

jay in oregon said...

This post makes me so angry that I can't see straight. (The transcript, not your commentary, of course.)

I was surpised at the some of the talk I've heard about Jill Carroll recently; there's this meme (or "talking point", if you will), that Carroll was working with her captors, or that the whole thing was staged to make President Bush look bad.

These are the same fuckwits who whine that "no one ever talks about the good news coming out of Iraq."

Frank said...

I had to deal with some random nutfucks on a messageboard today who think Carroll was part of a conspiracy theory against the war effort. They said it was made more likely by the fact she was a "left wing peace protestor" just like those from The Weathermen or the Earth Liberation Front.

Sometimes I just fucking wonder how people like that come to be.

Anonymous said...

Is this real?

OMFG

Sometimes I wonder if people like McGuirk are real or if they're conjured up to make the normal folk say 'OMFG' on message boards. Scum. Of. The. Earth.

Keep up the good work, KFM.

Luana said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Luana said...

Just when I think the 101st Fighting Keyboard Kommandos cannot possibly disgust me more, something like this happens. Ah well, live and learn ...

The unutterably vile rhetoric that they spew from the safety of their bedrooms, hunched over their computers as they continue to push the right wing propaganda that yes, they were right, yes there were WMDs in Iraq, yes Saddam and Osama were SO in bed with each other is beyond incomprehensible.

How do these people function when it's blatantly obvious that they don't have the brain capacity to operate the fucking door knob in order to get out their houses every-fucking-day?? OK, deep breaths, rant over. Maybe not ...

I have people I love in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, fighting in places they can't talk about, witnessing events that keep them awake at night and these fucktards on the Right think they have a some sort of God-given entitlement to bravery and patriotism? They wouldn't know heroism if it jumped out and bit them on their doughy, pajama-clad, cowardly asses ... I feel better.

Well, I'm off to document the atrocities (as C&L/Duncan would say) on the Sunday bobblehead shows because, apparently, I haven't suffered enough this week.

Stephen Benson said...

these assholes can't even muster the decency to say something appropriate like "welcome home." remfs have been a personal beef of mine since viet nam. the guys that angled for decorations while the rest of us crawled in the mud gave me a rash then, they give me one now. these are exactly the type of cowardly, opportunistic shitheels who are running things. one of the biggest reasons bush was so rash to go to war and his entourage went along with it is that they have no fucking idea what a war is like. they did everything possible to avoid service, then pretended like they did their part. the most galling part of it all for me is that whenever we would come out of the boonies looking for a shower, hot chow, cold beer, decent dope and maybe a hooker or two that wouldn't try to cut off our balls the remfs would treat us like chumps. i would rather be spit on by peace activists than share my space with remfs. my best response these guys comes from shakespeare's henry V when he's talking to ambassador about the dauphin "scorn, distaste, small regard."

RAB said...

I heard about this in a summarized form...but now that I've read this transcript of their vile spewings, the people in question have graduated from my personal list of "would not cross the street to pee on them if they were burning" to "would rush across the street to laugh and jeer."

And that includes Imus himself, who I used to think was a decent enough fellow but is now clearly beneath contempt since he didn't feel any need to eject them from the studio and have them fired immediately.

Isaac said...

What a pack of horrible little monsters.

Rob said...

Of course, we should have expected this. You only think you understand the mindset of these people if it didn't occur to you that they wanted Jill Carroll to be killed, preferably in as horrific and public a way as possible. Not the pinhead parrots on the messageboards, of course. I attribute to them only a fashionable affected anger, not genuine malice. However, for those who indirectly tell the pinheads what to think, Carroll's release tosses a monkey wrench in the spin machine, which, I am glad to note, already seems to have been operating somewhat less effeciently than usual for the last year or so.

With a high-profile hostage, the idea is always how to use the situation for political gain. It would have meant praising Carroll as a saint if she were killed, and it means destroying her as a traitor when she is released. Hell, they've been playing this trick on John McCain for the last seven years, flipping from one to the other depending on whether his aims are convenient. I guess when you've been a P.O.W., saying "thank you, sir, may I have another" in the face of such treatment as he's gotten within his own party is nothing, but I really, really want to see that man tell some people to go fuck themselves one of these days.

I digress.

The hostage herself is irrelevant, an artifact of the "reality-based community," and on her release, when the spin gets spinning, all the prayers and hopes that were requested and sent on behalf of this brave woman are supposed to be cast down the memory hole in favor of the new reality that she was a collaborator all the time. Whatever best complements the picture the administration wants painted in your head, that's what they'll tell you.

I've just seen V for Vendetta, finally (actually, Coltrane, it turns out I thought Hurt's performance was spot-on), and the one thing that did bug me was that every time they showed people reacting to the propaganda, it was to say "bollocks," as if not a single person in the whole of England actually bought into the lies, no matter how ridiculous, just because they wanted to believe. I honestly got the feeling there was not a single true believer in the fascist camp, except maybe Sutler himself, and probably not even him.

I can only hope that such sudden rhetorical u-turns as this one regarding Carroll's release will ring as hollow to some of the real-life true believers as they do to us; that even as they parrot the talking points, they'll secretly think it odd that they're condemning the same woman they were praying for a week ago. Such nagging contradictions are one of the most powerful means of encouraging independent thought.

That Girl said...

I would like to point out that this is entirely consistant with their beliefs that torture makes people tell the truth, eventually, if you torture them enough.

They are stupid. I hope Ms. Carroll's burqa-wearing butt uses her voice to reign a much-deserved crapload of scorn upon their heads.

Hawise said...

I hope Ms. Carroll takes the time to heal in the comfort of her supportive family and colleagues and leaves the McQuirks of this world to dangle over the Abyss as they deserve. She deserves time and patience as do the other released hostages, idiots like McQuirk deserve to have his children grow up just like HER.

Refugee said...

Interesting comparison with the Patty Hearst case from Neo Neocom:
Part 1
Part 2.

These posts are especially valuable for the insight that Patty herself provides from her book account of the case, about how utterly and thoroughly her captors broke her.

Bottom line: Unless you've received special training to resist torture, you will do anything, anything at all, to avoid being treated any worse than you already have been.

On the other hand, all this occurred at about the same time as the Christian Peacemaker Team rescue, after which the rescue-es and organization spokefolk not only failed to thank their rescuers, but blamed the U.S. for creating the situation that lead to their capture. Supporters of the war had good reason to be a bit hair-triggered on the issue. (And I absolutely agree that no further attempts should be made to rescue CPT personnel.) Still, I agree the overreaction before all the facts were in on Ms. Carrol was reprehensible.

Oh, and about torture: this breaking is exactly why torture is so unreliable: you can't get your captive to tell you the truth, only to tell you what you want to hear. However, it does seem to be true (as I, a decided non-expert, understand it) that putting moderate stress on people, and keeping them off-balance and uncertain about what you might do, is crucial to getting them to talk freely. You can't get by with just the "good cop".

Dave_K said...

after which the rescue-es [..] failed to thank their rescuers

Since it was on the local media, I know James Loney thanked his rescuers almost as soon as he got off the plane at home. Now that I look, the same is true with Norman Kember, although he's a bit more poltical about it. Not sure about the third.

Anonymous said...

... People are assholes.
And I bet my life that this bullshit came from a man who would have done the EXACT SAME THING, under these circumstances.

Øystein H. Lund said...

"You sad, sad shell of a man" isn't adequate, but I suppose it's the best we have.

Or maybe not - if I may quote mr. Orwell here: "We have ALWAYS been at war with Oceania"

Because if this isn't a prime example of doublethink, I dunno what is.

Mike Cane said...

In light of the Imus firing, I went back to re-read this.

Christ, where was the outrage for THIS?

cliff said...

The only one in this whole post who is entitled to a legitimate opinion is the Vietnam Vet. The rest of us (including me) are on the outside looking in and have no real idea what war is really like.

"...right wing propaganda that yes, they were right, yes there were WMDs in Iraq, yes Saddam and Osama were SO in bed with each other is beyond incomprehensible."

What? I love how you lefties think if you ride around in your hybrid, drinking your soy lattes and listening to Cat Stevens, all will be right in ther world. Well it doesn't work like that. It is a FACT that Sadaam had hundreds of thousands of his own people murdered for what he called "treason." I guess we should just turn a blind eye, though, because it's not happening here.

God bless our Troops who have the intestinal fortitude to fight and protect those who can't fight for themselves.

And Patty Hearst? Yeah, you just lost any legitimacy you might have had.

Anonymous said...

You people are the intellectual equivalent of a giant school of fish. Verbal lemmings. I bet all of you people are mega-lefties who consider yourselves "tolerant"...that is, until someone disagrees with you. Then you demonstrate the worst kind of intolerance and hate.
Answer this post without using profanity; I dare you.

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Anonymous said...

This is mildly pathetic of me, I know. But I feel bad about leaving a thread like this.

Okay. Since I don't even recognize seo's language, I'll have to talk to the long-gone backs of cliff and anonymous. (Pathetic, I get it. But I'm bored.)

First of all, no, we can't possibly understand what it's like to be hostages, in combat, etc. Although I imagine I would soil myself in a situation like Carroll's. Doesn't mean our opinions aren't valid. That argument undercuts, y'know, the basic human capacity for empathy, the ability of noncombatants to vote ("Starship Troopers" would not work, sorry), the rights of pacifists, and lots of other things that I really like quite a bit. Okay. But even so, I'll accept your terms. My words mean nothing. (Especially since they're posted on a years-dead thread. Helps knowing nobody'll read this.) So you can ignore me completely when I say: by cliff's logic, we are morally bound, as a nation, to immediately launch a full-on assault on China. I realize that this would destroy the world's economy, and might well bring an end to the U.S. But if we're going to start taking out oppressive governments that murder their own citizens for "treason," they're a good place to start.

So let's go. If I can have some guarantee that we're going to invade China, I will sign up tomorrow. (That's assuming I can pass the physical. Mm. Grotesque obesity awaits...) But as soon as I hear that we are going to war with that terrible, terrible government, the last true vestige of the awful perversion of Communism which rotted away the best bits of the world's culture in the twentieth century, I will join the army. Or wherever I can get in. I don't promise you, the reader, this; I promise myself. I think it's honestly the only thing to do, given the situation. I assume we want to be consistent. I'm unsure if violence is ever justified, but if Harlan Ellison thinks so, maybe I'll just be a verbal lemming on that count.

You think I'm kidding. But I'm totally serious. Of course, it's an absurd, stupid (but intellectually honest! Can't fault me there!) hypothetical, and I'm still a horrible coward who would disgrace the military if I served. But if we are going to overthrow the Chinese government and institute democracy in the world's oldest civilization, I'm see you in Shanghai.

Utterly serious.

Also, the attacks on stereotypically leftist lifestyles? Not helping. And hey, no profanity. Don't drive. Umm... my Muslim singer of choice is Richard Thompson... sure would love to have intestinal fortitude... Patty Hearst? Brainwashed. Terrified. Uncool to pick on her. Come on, man.... okay. That's you're argument demolished. I am a mega-lefty, but I don't hate you guys. I love you. Not like that. Nor like... eww, that.... okay. I am satisfied that you are pwned. Thank you, God bless the troops, may al-Quaeda enjoy their future nights of shivering and starving all across Iraq now that they're actually there, having come to fight the Americans once we were actually IN IRAQ... okay. I am done. What next, Sisyphus?

Anonymous said...

Same guy...

Funny thing is, I actually do know the difference between "you're" and "your." I'm just a bit of an idiot sometimes. So anyone who actually reads this is welcome to accuse me of ignorance, so long as they don't hinge a political argument around it.

Great, I'm gonna be here all night looking for typos and mistakes and tense disagreements in my last post....

Anonymous said...

Still...

Yeah. So. This is getting old, I know. But can't get it off me chest (haharr... chest, get it... oh dear).

I thought about the irony of just doing what Harlan Ellison says is okay when anonymous said we lefties are fish/lemmings, acting just like all the others. But I was typing jes' as fast as I could, and so, lazily, I didn't actually bring it out in the post. Which is my fault. I shoulda, having recognized it; writing flaw, etc. Sorry. BUT... here I am pointing out my mistake.

We lefties may be lemmings. But the lemmings know something you don't. (No, really. I can't tell you what it is, but if you know, you'd be over that cliff... heh... in a heartbeat.)

My fault for not covering myself. But I did think about it. ("Methinks the lady doth protest too much." "Lady, that's no lady!" etc.)

Peace. We (maybe) out.

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lionelmessi10 said...

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