Monday, April 10, 2006

All Hail the Queen

That's it - a man has to know when to yield to his betters. La Queen Sucia goes on the sideboard this week, of only for this:

MICHAEL SAYS: 3. They do not register for selective service and do not serve in the military - forcing legal Americans to defend them.

ALISA SAYS: Sigh. According the U.S. government, all male immigrants – legal and otherwise – are required by U.S. law to register for selective service.

According to the National Center for Immigration Law, one in ten U.S. soliders who have DIED in Iraq have been immigrants. Five percent of those serving in our military are illegal immigrants.

The first soldier to die for the United States in the current war in Iraq was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala.

He died for you.

You are not in Iraq fighting for anyone. You are home, sending lie-riddled missives to strangers at 3 a.m. on your computer.

Enough said.

33 comments:

Ian said...

Damn, she's awesome.

LonewackoDotCom said...

I couldn't find anything called the "National Center for Immigration Law", but perhaps she's refering to some group linked to the AILA.

Illegal aliens aren't supposed to be serving in the U.S. military, for obvious reasons that, you know, they might have divided loyalties. If that phantom organization knows of any illegal aliens in the U.S. military, perhaps they should send that information to their representatives.

Joshua said...

Nice. Very nice. That's called a pimp-slap and he should be happy he got it.

nolo said...

She's referring to the National Immigration Law Center". The transposition of the name is a common editorial mistake.

nolo said...

A .pdf copy of the NCIL's information sheet on immigrants and the military can be found here.

Sindy said...

Actually, only immigrants with greencards can serve in the military, so that makes them "legal" not "illegal" immigrants. Lance Cpl. Gutierrez came into the country illegally, but became a "legal" immigrant when he lied his way into getting a green card. The news story can be found here.

nolo said...

It blows my mind that there are people who assume that the only people who've participated in the recent massive protests are here illegally.

Kevin Church said...

The Better Half was at a protest here in Boston yesterday and while it was 75% hispanic, there were also many, many Irish folks there.

I found this amusing, because I'd love to see some of these hardliners try to convince certain Irish people i know that they need to "go back where they came from."

LonewackoDotCom said...

While all those marching might not be illegal aliens, many are indeed illegal aliens. And, all of those marching are doing so in support of illegal immigration. They are only protesting for or against legislation involving illegal aliens, not that involving legal immigrants.

Here's more on the NILC. Note that they're affiliated with CHIRLA, a group that has allegedly collaborated with the Mexican government.

Note also that the "Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform" appears to have been involved in some of the marches supporting illegal immigration, and they're funded by the Irish government.

And, the Georgia illegal aliens march/boycott was organized by a former Mexican Consul General.

To what extent do the labels "dupes" and "useful idiots" apply to those Americans who support these marches?

nolo said...

God forbid there be any international "collaboration" over immigration policy. Because that would be so UnAmerican.

And terms like "dupes" and "useful idiots" seem as applicable to American citizens who support fair and humane immigration policies as they do to "illegal" immigrants who volunteer to fight (and die) in our wars.

Rogers said...

All of those marching are marching in favor of illegal immigrants not beng made felons, and thereby deported. I'm not for illegal immigration -- but I'm against ridiculous, impractical, financially unfeasible scapegoating laws to oppose it. What Ms. Valdes-Rodriguez is also discussing is the element of race-baiting that's become an integral part of this discussion. I also note that you don't address any of the other things she discusses, such as illegal immigrants paying taxes, the fact that children of illegal immigrants are barely a percentage point of the children in school supported by those taxes.

These demonstrations are not to say illegal immigration is "okay." they are to remind us that meaningful immigration reform does not mean treating 12 million people who work and pay taxes as the legal equivalent of rapists and murderers.

And yes, although only legal immigrants in theory "can" serve, mnay ilegal immigrants "do" serve.

Leaving that aside, two points -- one the "divided loyalties" argument was the exact same one made against John Kennedy when he ran as a Catholic Presidential candidate. It was ridiculous then, it's ridiculous now. Unless you're still worried about we Catholics being closet Papists, your concern over illegal immigrants having "divided loyalties" is the exact same issue. Most of my Jewish friends have no problems often conflating Israel's needs and what America should do -- occasionally to its own detriment -- to meet them. I don't consider them enemy infiltrators.

The second point -- illegal immigrants are not the reason that median income for the middle class hasn't budged while the top 1% of this nation have gotten richer. Illegal immigrants aren't the reason that white poverty is at an all time high. Illegal immigrants aren't the reason that child poverty in this nation is on the rise. Illegal immigrants aren't the reason for 45 million uninsured Americans. Illegal immigrants aren't the ones reneging on pension plans while enriching themselves. Illegal immigrants aren't the ones who voted agasint raising military pay or better funding for the VA three times in a row. Illegal immigrants do not hide their massive multi-billion dollar coporate incomes in offshore banks so as to avoid paying taxes to the nation which enables their existence.

Illegal immigrants -- particularly Hispanic ones -- are, however, a convenient shiny object to wave in the face of a frightened, confused working class.

The words "dupes" and "useful idiots" are indeed relevant to this conversation -- but probably not in the context you're thinking.

Rogers said...

Actually, only immigrants with greencards can serve in the military, so that makes them "legal" not "illegal" immigrants. Lance Cpl. Gutierrez came into the country illegally, but became a "legal" immigrant when he lied his way into getting a green card. The news story can be found here.

First, there conflicting reports of whether Gutierrez lied for his green card or not. Regardless ...

He SIGNED UP TO SERVE HIS COUNRTY. OUR COUNTRY. Something not a lot of perfectly healthy people who rabidly support the Iraq War have bothered to do. And he DIED for that loyalty -- maybe he's the exception, eh, one of the few who don't have "divided loyalties."? Or maybe luckily for us he was killed before his shadowy planof betrayal could go into effect.

So keep that in mind before trivializing him in any way on this blog.

shayera said...

Steve Gilliard's got a front page story on his blog right now about 5 immigrants who've been killed in Iraq just in the past week.

Frank Z. White said...

Defending the United States?

Hate to burst your bubble, but the United States military are hardly 'defending' anyone.

Use of the word 'defending' implies the United States is under attack. It isn't.

'Consolidating our interests in the Middle East' might be more apt.

MP said...

1) Gutierrez held permanent U.S. resident status, which he obtained in 1999. He was not illegal when he died

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/256506.html

2) Jose Gutierrez was one on the first who died in Iraq, but not the first. First four soldiers died day before Jose Gutierrez was killed.

The Department of Defense announced today the identities of four U.S. Marines killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash on March 20 in Kuwait. Killed were:

Maj. Jay Thomas Aubin, 36, of Waterville, Maine
Capt. Ryan Anthony Beaupre, 30, of Bloomington, Ill.
Cpl. Brian Matthew Kennedy, 25, of Houston, Texas
Staff Sgt. Kendall Damon Watersbey, 29, of Baltimore, Md


http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/b03212003_bt135-03.html

Therrel S. Childers and Jose Gutierrez were killed in action on March 21, 2003.

The Department of Defense announced today the identities of two U.S. Marines killed in action on March 21 in Southern Iraq. Killed were:
2nd Lt. Therrel S. Childers, 30, Harrison County, Miss.
Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, 22, Los Angeles, Calif.


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/b03222003_bt137-03.html

LonewackoDotCom said...

All of those marching are marching in favor of illegal immigrants not beng made felons, and thereby deported.

The United States has every legal right to deport those who are illegal aliens, provided that all applicable laws are followed.

As for the felons bit, you probably don't know the backstory. Sensenbrenner tried to take that out, but the Dems voted to keep it in. Perhaps the Dems were looking forward to their constituents rallying against the provision they voted to keep in.

What Ms. Valdes-Rodriguez is also discussing is the element of race-baiting that's become an integral part of this discussion. I also note that you don't address any of the other things she discusses

I stopped reading her rant after the first swear word directed against someone whose actions didn't deserve that level of vituperation.

such as illegal immigrants paying taxes, the fact that children of illegal immigrants are barely a percentage point of the children in school supported by those taxes.

A large percentage of LAUSD students are illegal aliens or the children of same. And, CA gives discounted college educations to illegal aliens. When you think about what that means, you see that CA is taking discounted college educations away from U.S. citizens and giving them to illegal aliens. And, by doing that they're devaluing U.S. citizenship. You really have to think these things through.

one the "divided loyalties" argument was the exact same one made against John Kennedy when he ran as a Catholic Presidential candidate. It was ridiculous then, it's ridiculous now.

Obviously, what was true of JFK or Catholics is not necessarily true now or of other people or groups.

Mexico is quite eager to help people become dual citizens. Can you imagine why that would be? And, what will all those dual citizens do if we ever have a major dispute with Mexico? Which side will they be on? Those are very serious concerns and if someone isn't willing to examine that in depth than they aren't a serious commentator on these issues.

Joseph said...

I have to agree with Mr. White. Lance Cpl. Gutierrez didn't die for me or anyone else and he's not defending our country. Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 or any other terrorist attack on the US. He didn't have WMD either. He was not a threat to the US. All he did was embarrass Bush Jr's dad and cost him the re-election in 1992.

Also, no one is comparing illegal immigrants to rapist or murderers. There are different levels of felonies and I believe that under the house bill illegal immigrants would only serve a maximum of 1 year in jail, hardly the term that most rapist and murders serve.

The fact is that people coming here illegally are breaking the law and we tried the whole amnesty thing back in 1986 when we allowed 3 million illegal immigrants to become citizens. Now over 10 million are here illegally. Kind of tells you that amnesty doesn't work and only encourages more people to break the law and come here illegally. You want more immigrants, increase the quotas. Allow more to come here legally

Ross said...

Just to point out that stating
"you probably don't know the backstory."

in one paragraph and
"I stopped reading her rant..."

in another reads pretty hypocritical.

Are you well informed or are you selectively informed?


Personally I'm ill-informed on this topic and gladly following the honest debate here.

the Ascetic Sensualist said...

As for the felons bit, you probably don't know the backstory. Sensenbrenner tried to take that out, but the Dems voted to keep it in. Perhaps the Dems were looking forward to their constituents rallying against the provision they voted to keep in.

Yes, they were. The alternative was having the provision taken out before voting, and then having Sensenbrenner add it back in during the consolidation of bills between the House and the Senate. The Democrats are acting like if you want something to become law, you should be on record voting in favor of it.

Doctor Memory said...

...what will all those dual citizens do if we ever have a major dispute with Mexico? Which side will they be on? Those are very serious concerns...

Funny, I wasn't aware that "serious" was a synonym for "laughable" in common usage.

Free hint: it's best not to demand "serious" consideration for any point of view that posits Santa Ana's hordes attempting to re-take the Alamo as a probable scenario.

nolo said...

Lonewacko's posts are just proof that Einstein was right. Nationalism really is an infantile disease.

colin roald said...

I stopped reading her rant after the first swear word directed against someone whose actions didn't deserve that level of vituperation.

Swear word? There are no swear words in that rant. There are a couple of harsh words ("stupid", and "liar"), but even my grandmother's ears are not too delicate to hear them.

And to Frank White and Joseph, what the US military has currently been assigned to do in Iraq is an important issue, but one ENTIRELY irrelevant to Cpl Gutierrez. Who signed up before that war started, and thereby pledged his life to the defence of the United States. And also to do and go whereever his commanders sent him, but that is really secondary compared to he volunteered to get shot at for the USA.

Joseph said...

Colin, you stated that Cpl Gutierrez pledged " to do and go whereever his commanders sent him"

hmmm, isn't that what the people at Abu Ghraib said? That they were just following orders? Whatever happened to free will or refusing to follow orders if you think they are wrong legally or morally?

Besides, I never disputed the fact that Cpl Gutierrez "volunteered to get shot at for the USA". I disputed the fact that he died for me or to defend this country. I have never seen any proof that Iraq was going to attack the USA and I doubt I ever will.

Immigrant Soldier Program said...

Well said,

It seems the illegal immigrant is getting everything of this currrent reform deal and the U.S. nil. Military or community service should be required to earn the right to become a legal U.S. resident.

pamb said...

"It seems the illegal immigrant is getting everything of this currrent reform deal and the U.S. nil. Military or community service should be required to earn the right to become a legal U.S. resident. "

So what should be expected of those of us born to the purple - the 'Made in the USA' citizens who have citizenship by right of birth? Do we just get to sit back on our asses and let the newbie immigrants do all the work for us? Or would that imply that those dirty foreigners are taking jobs away from us? Citizenship is a right to those born in the country, but like all rights, it must come with responsibility or it becomes worthless. The immigrants that are hard working, tax paying, and trying to make a better life for themselves and their families seem to me to be accepting the responsibilites much better than the lazy, uninformed, uneducated, natural born citizens who think the country owes them an easy living (welfare for the able bodied who refuse to work). What should we do with them? Ship them out of the US? Where? What country would want them?

Immigrant Soldier Program said...

Pamb,

I did not want to go that far, but I believe military / community / humanitarian service should be mandatory for every U.S. citizen and legal resident when they reach 18.

ChrisO said...

mp: Since you seem to think this: "The Department of Defense announced today the identities of four U.S. Marines killed in a CH-46E helicopter crash on March 20 in Kuwait." is relevant, you should also notice that the four soldiers died in Kuwait, not Iraq. This doesn't lessen their sacrifice, but it does take away from what seemed to be an irrelevant point. Does it really matter if Gutierrez died on the first or second day?

And it's interesting to see lonewacko criticizing others for not knowing the backstory, then repeating Republican talking points that have already been dismissed as being breathtaking in their dishonesty. Sensenbrenner introduced a bill making illegal immigrants felons. When it came out of committee, there was such opposition that Sensenbrenner backed off and tried to change it to a misdemeanor. The Democrats, who oppose criminalizing it at all, refused to support the amendment because they didn't want to vote for any criminal penalty. So the bill went out with Sensenbrenner's original amendment, and the Republican Congress passed it. Now the Republicans are claimingthat the Dems voting against the change were actually supporting the felony provision. This isn't misleading. It's a lie. lonewacko, now that you realize just how much your peeps have been playing you for a fool, can you can you still support them?

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Riyan Cilacap said...

Thank You Verry Much, Ijin nitip gan dan trimaksih atas infonya

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