Thursday, January 12, 2006

Kapa O Pango

And sometimes, links just for me. And DJ. Thanks to Grabthar's Hammer.

54 comments:

james finn garner said...

That HAD to be more entertaining than the game.

Good to know the "up yours" sign translates to Maori.

laurean said...

*L* Took me a few minutes to realize what they were doing.

NICE.

Ahh Rugby...and people think normal Americal Football is dangerous and lethal.

caseyko74 said...

No matter how many times I see that, it always gets me. My son's godfather and I are just waiting for the little monkey to get big enough to start playing rugby. Then we are going to immigrate him to New Zealand to play for the All Blacks. Kid already has an All Blacks bath set, and he wears my All Blacks baseball cap all the time.

Anonymous said...

This is Jo's idea of foreplay, isn't it?

--MW

DJ said...

All I now need now is an ice-cold “Coppers Premium ale” and a pack of “Stuyvesant’s Red”

Michael Alan Nelson said...

Seeing that just makes me want to run out into the street, grab the first person I see, and EAT them.

Alex Epstein said...

The story I love best is from the Lord of the Rings set. Seems the guys playing the orcs at Helms Deep thought that the guys playing the elves were not really getting into it. So they did a haka. And then the guys playing the elves did a haka back.

Yikes.

Multiculturalism at its best.

Amandarama said...

That's just...frightening...and yet I'd watch more American sports if that kind of thing spontaneously happened.

jay in oregon said...

I'm with Amanda; that was cool.

Too bad American sports have gotten to be so worthless to watch; I used to watch football as a kid and basketball in high school and college. Now othing in the US interests me.

Now, when I go to a Mexican restaurant and they've got soccer on, that's another story...

MaryAn Batchellor said...

..and off this link goes to my son's high school soccer coach...

Anonymous said...

That was almost like a scene from Braveheart. Did they win the match?

nolo said...

I don't know how the guys on the other side took it, but that scared the crap out of ME.

harmfulguy said...

The video got me curious enough to do a little more looking; here's Wikipedia's take on the tradition and meaning of the Haka.

harmfulguy said...

Well, dammit.

Let's see if this link works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka

mrjamuku: If he did a chant like that, I'd definitely call him Mister Jamuku!

Richard said...

Anon, the All Blacks won the game 31-27.

Oh, and it was this particular version of the haka that gave the UK sport press a conniption, with one writer declaring, 'a war dance is no sane precursor to an afternoon of wholesome amusement'.

Anonymous said...

"one writer declaring, 'a war dance is no sane precursor to an afternoon of wholesome amusement'. "

yes, because the rest of a typical rugby game involves skipping about hand-in-hand tossing confetti and flowers.

Eric Andrade said...

That was F'ing Cool.

Thanks for posting.

GM Doug said...

I think the whole effect of the Haka is vastly overrated. The simple fact is that the All Blacks are good (and they play very very tough, occasionally stretching the rules of the game to the limit).

Does the War Dance maybe help them get ready? Maybe. But by now I expect many international teams aren't so much afraid of it as bored and fed up with it.

Of course it looks fearsome, but then it's being conducted by NZ Rugby players - generally a fearsome bunch at the best of times.

Looks nice on the day mind you. But sometime somewhere there's going to be a reaction from the other team and it won't be pretty.

David Lawrence said...

gm doug, some years ago, a team (I forget exactly whom, though I think it was the Springboks - the same team they were playing there) made a point of standing in a line and walking into, and through, the AB's as they were performing the haka.

That, as far as I know, has been the only reaction from another team. And when you consider you're staring down a dozen hulking polynesians (and a couple of pakeha that aren't exactly small either), it's no wonder no ones tried to be more confrontational.

As Richard alluded, that is the new haka, the old one having been taken out of commission because, as near as I could tell, the NZRFU couldn't copyright it (it was 'owned' by a local tribe, who let them use it as they wanted, but woudln't let them claim ownership). I don't know if any of you outside NZ (or at least outside rugby playing nations) would know the old haka, but I prefered it myself. The new one seems a bit disorganised.

mstarr said...

Haven't seen moves like that since the Temptations broke up.

GM Doug said...

David,

Hadn't heard that story about the Spirngboks. Have to admit part of me thought my fellow Scots should have come out to face NZ last year with blue faces and then shown their collective backsides to the All Blacks at the end of the Haka.

But then that would have been a hollywood reaction! Considering the number of out right mistakes/lies in Braveheart. Don't get me wrong it's still a great movie - and has one speech which to this day still brings the hairs on the back of my neck to full attention. But it's hardly remotely historically accurate. (Battle of Stirling Bridge had a bridge in it for a start)

Anyway where was I ?

Haka, yes not that impressed.

Kid Sis said...

I miss New Kids on the Block. Good on them for the second career.

Hadyn said...

Wow, as the 'originator' of this I suppose I should say "Thanks Rogers".

The game was a blinder as well. This was the first time Kapa O Pango was used. The All Blacks use it for 'special' matches or matches of great significance (the old one is still used David). The British got a bit sniffy about the throat cutting action, but, as the famous rugby quote goes, "this ain't tiddly-winks".

There have been a few challenges to the haka Doug, but the stats would suggest that this is futile. Every time the haka is responded to (walking forwards, ignoring etc) the All Blacks have won.

One US university (college) has picked up the haka tradition (through a Maori student) but have to perform to the crowd as it was deemed "too threatening to the opposition". I will try to find the video and bung it up on my site.

coltrane said...

Anyone seen UTU? Great little movie out of New Zealand.

Anonymous said...

Circulating out there on the Internets is a commercial for William Lawson's scotch in which a haka is performed in front of an opposing team of topless white men in kilts.

When the haka's over, the Scots - slowly - raise their kilts to the islanders.

Alex said...

http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/Haka/video/31026

Here you go, the All Blacks getting a bit of their own medicine form the last world cup! The Tongans look pretty fired up....


Actually my understaning of the reason Kapa O Pango has been partially adopted is that the Haka can only be lead by someone of Maori blood and seeing as the Captain (in this case Tana Umanga, of Samoan blood) is often not they needed one that the skipper could lead. Check out the make up of the All Black team, actually not many true Maoris at all. Many islanders form outside NZ

Tintin said...

It's less threatening than it is theatrics, but more worrying, it's becoming institutionalised and something of a holy cow, and it's only been a regular part of the match since 1987. That said, at certain matchs and when it's led by someone who is really into the moment, it can be spinetingling.
Now, the All Blacks and kiwis get all riled up when the haka is 'disrespected', and this has the potentiality to lead to unnecessary action on the field in retaliation (as in what many people say happened to Brian O'Driscoll during the 2005 Lions' tour, and part of what some say fired up Jonah Lomu in the 1995 world cup semifinal and led to him humiliating Tony Underwood). I don't know any rules that say an opposing team has to stand there and take it, or even that the hosting team and venue have to allow it to take place.
Regarding someone's post on reactions to it, they have ranged from respectful silence, to sneers, to the French taking the piss out of it in their changing room after they beat them in one of the great matches of all time (and which allegedly got back to the All Blacks and which some say lead to France's demolition by them a few years later), to the Irish going toe to toe with them at one match, and to the great David Campese turning his back on the whole thing and wandering of downfield to juggle the ball at the 1991 world cup semifinal (and the Aussies won that match too)!! All this to say that there is no need to take it that seriously, the guys on the opposing team are just as big and ferocious, it is a great spectacle, but the new one has come in for some deserved criticism as appearing disorganised, and with that throat-cutting gesture at the end proof that the All Blacks had gone too far in thinking they could do anything with the haka.

Anonymous said...

bloody hell if u dont watch rugby and u aint from nz then dont try and comment on the haka, they lay out a challenge showing their intensity and what not and if the opposers cant handle that then they might as well go home and play dress up.

Anonymous said...

ahk well first off, the original haka was written by a chief named te rauparaha, it wasn't written for rugby matches, for any for of sport on fact, it about te rauparaha being trapped, thinking he was going to die, but then miracuously making it out...so you may now understand why it is that the iwi who indeed own the rights to the haka have asked that it not be performed, as some of you have mentioned the abs still perform it occasionally, but anywho...te kapa o pango is a haka written for the all blacks, it is therefore more appropriate for the players to be performing it. and no, the haka doesn't have to be lead by someone of maori descent, it may seem that way, but it isn't. and just a thought, if you thought piri weepus action of 'throat-cutting' was 'scary' then get into watching more kapa haka, learn about the meaning of the words, and let's remember the haka is a traditional taonga of maori, treasure, embrace and uplift it!! paimarie :)

gutted said...

All I would like to say is this. No one really cared about the all blacks doing the haka until GH recent stint as coach. It seems to me when the all blacks are getting beaten nobody has much to say about the haka. Now that they have been so dominant in the last few years everyone is looking for something to point and joke about. They cant say much about the rugby to they picked on the haka. Haka isnt a wardance the all blacks do.Haka isnt just a dance the all blacks pull out of the closet 6 times a year. Haka is a challenge, not only to your opposition but a mark of respect also. Every college rugby team has a Haka, one usually local to the area or written specificially for the school. Haka is our culture and our history. Haka is a precious part of our heritage and using it as a target for criticism because you cant win the rugby is bordering on racism. What really bothers me is that the people who would consider our friends, the aussies and the welsh are the first to comment, when our oldest foes the South Africans say nothing and treat our tradition with respect, maybe because they to understand the significance of indigenous culture. Unlike the english, aussies, welsh and french.

Anonymous said...

The good news out of all the palava about the recent match in cardiff is the IRB are going to look at and make some rules about it all.

There was a previous incident involving England where both teams were squaring up at the half way line and it looked like we would have the first intenational rugby game started with a penalty kick. They then changed the rules so that both teams should be behind the 10 metre lines. It is interesting in that video that NZ seem to be between teh 10m line and half way.

There is no doubt that one of the reasons NZ do the haka is that they feel they get an advantage out of it, As they are currently by some distance the best team in the world it is natural that their opponents would try to nullify that advantage somehow. It IS what NZ would do, they have always been at the forefrount of stretching the rules and changing the game.

The Haka is traditionally a challange, and also traditionally the challange should be accepted and responded to. The welsh wanted to respond by singing their (or I guess our :) ) national anthem afterwards. For whatever reason that was unacceptable to the NZ management.

The whole thing has been given to the IRB to sort out, as there are no rules on this.

They wanted the haka to happen, but wanted to respond to it, and match the challange wiht one of their own which is traditional as well. The whole thing was pretty badly handled to be honest, as there was not a lot of communication between the sides, and it was effectively brinksmanship.

As you said the Haka is a challange, it should be met, and we badly need agreement on how that should be done.

Gutted said...

Theres 2 things I have to disagree with you on. The All Blacks dont Haka because they feel it gives them an advantage. Otherwise they would haka at half time too. If your theory is correct, why do we haka at each other? As i understand the first haka was asked to be performed by the host of an early All Black teams. Secondly on the welsh incident. The whole point of the All Blacks haka in the dressing room was this... They shifted the Haka last year because of the occasion of the game as a mark of respect to the welsh and the welsh contribution to All Black rugby, as requested by the WRU. They were then assured they would never be asked again. That is what the haka in the dressing room was about. WRU made a promise and broke it. By trying to do it again they not only recinded a promise they made but tried to dictate to the ABS. You cant let people bully concessions out of you. And the WRU was given an inch.. and tried to take another.And as I said... it didnt bother anyone when we were losing.

Anonymous said...

Fine if the all blacks are doing the Haka for their own benefit what is wrong with the

1/ NZ anthem
2/ Haka
3/ Wales Anthem

Running order? It agrees with tradition, it is the way it happened in the very first test match between wales and NZ. The Haka is a challange. Responding to the Haka with singing the welsh national anthem would be a traditional welsh response.

Even if is not the intention of the all blacks, it is belived that anthems, Haka, kickoff gives the all blacks an advantage, that is not your intention, so you change the running order.

It has gone back to the IRB, which is as it should be, they should all get together and work something out.

Everyone wants to see the Haka as part of the pre match ritual, but why is it so important that it is the very last thing that happens before kickoff?

It is perceved to give NZ an advantage, moving it is consisitent with tradition so what is the problem? Unless what you are *really* after is getting an advantage.

gutted said...

missing the point, its not the order that is the problem, its the fact that people are tryin to change the way we have done things for how long. 100 years? anyway the australians have had someone with a microphone lead waltzing matilda with the crowd why the aussies get out of their tracksuits after the haka. I suppose it all comes down to how its been handled. wru made a promise and broke it. of course people are gonna get their backs up.. wouldnt you? why wait a 100 years to try change it back to the way it was first performed on one occasion? why now. The kent womens rugby team just imitated the haka topless, it seems to us over here that in the last year everyone has in some way had a go at out culture, and its all coming out of the northern hemisphere and unfortunately australia. One question for you on the welsh, do you sing that song after the Tongan, Samoan, and fijian hakas?

Anonymous said...

I do agree that we should have a set and fixed running order for all teams.

This is about the principle of the thing, not one match. I am not particularly interested in a he said she said thing about the WRU and NZRU over the particular incident. The centinary match was a one off that is certain, but saying something is a one off, and will not set a precident for the future, is not the same as promising never to ask again. That whole incident was badly handled, and there was some definate miscomunication there. But again this to me is about how the Haka should be handled in future games, NOT how it was handled in that match.

What is important, and why this has been brought up is it is thought that having a Haka just before kickoff gives an advantage. In the professional era every little counts. True or not true I don't know, but people genuanely belive it to be true.

I still have not seen a concete arguement for keeping it the way it is, the pre match haka most certainally does not have a unbroken 100 year history, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka_of_the_All_Blacks

"In the early decades, haka were only rarely performed at home matches" , "The team that toured Britain in 1935-36 did not perform one before matches"

I have not really researched the history of it that far, but to say that it has been done this way for 100 years is not true.

I can understand peoples backs being put out by the way it was handled, but some of the problem was miscommunication. But as I said that one match is not the point. The point is how this should be handled in the future.

I cannot understand how you consider it an attack on the cuture. The kent thing fine, no problem. But the Haka is a challange. They consulted Māori elders and heard from them that it would be proper to respond to the challange, and thoguht the national anthem was an appropriate response.

Lets get away from that match. If the IRB get together and in their wisdom agree that the Haka is an integral part of rugby, but the opponents should be allowed to respond to it so we have the running order

1/ NZ athem
2/ Haka
3/ Opponents anthem

or
1/ Haka
2/ Opponents anthem
3/ NZ anthem

(I think there might be rules about the order the anthems are, but I am not sure, depending who the home team is etc)

For all future NZ and island rugby games. Then is that acceptable or not?

If both teams do a Haka, then I guess we can have as now anthems then face each other and do the Haka.

gutted said...

I dont think we're going to agree, but you might not see the AB'S do a haka on foreign soil again.

gutted said...

besides...It seems to be there are alot better ways you can improve the scorelines without all this aggression over the haka.

alex said...

To whoever keeps rambling about how the ABs only want to do it as the last thing before the match so they get an "advantage" out of it - use your head. If they really thought that was the case, why did they do the Haka in their changing room at Millennium Stadium before they even came onto the field? Your statement has zero logic.

They did the Haka in their changing room because they refused to be told when and how they should perform their team ritual.

Do the Welsh always sing their national anthem right before a test match? Or was that in fact done, as you say, to gain an "advantage" over the ABs?

Stop bullshitting about somebody else's culture when you don't understand.

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