Sunday, January 08, 2006

Body Armor? But You're POOR People ...

I need to cite this:

A secret Pentagon study has found that as many as 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body could have survived if they had had extra body armor. Such armor has been available since 2003, but until recently the Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls from the field for additional protection, according to military officials.


And then point to FEMA's response to Katrina, and then point out the Administration's bungling of post-war Iraq, and then point to the recent recess appointments the President used to install completely unqualified cronies into crucial National Security posts, cronies so useless he knew he couldn't even get them past a Republican Senate ...

... to reiterate my position: I don't criticize this Administration because I'm a progressive, or I hate Bush, or I Want the Terrorists to Win (tm). They are objectively bad at their jobs. This is so far past Conservative vs. Progressive that we're in Wonderland. Never mind the whole "The President gets to break the law as long as we're at War and we'll be at War for the foreseeable future" inanity. That aside, these people are Just. Not. Getting. The Job. Done.

Half-Assed, I believe I said, and I stick by it.

You support the troops by making sure they have all the equipment they need, they are executing a well-thought-out strategy with accomplishable goals, and then taking care of them when they get home. This Administration has failed on all three counts. Objectively.

40 comments:

DJ said...

So I guess I am a “Progressive” now? I didn’t get the NewsLetter.

Polymath said...

logical as you are, john, the sad fact is that cheerleaders of the current administration just won't listen to logic if it's perceived to come from a "progressive". i recommend that you go underground to infiltrate the conservative movement so that you can actually speak out against it effectively in 20 or 30 years. that would seem to be the only way to get anyone to take criticism seriously.

Sean said...

No, let's take back Congress in 2006, the White House in 2008, learn from these mistakes, work hard to bring those good moderate Republicans into key positions and empower them, and spend every last dime we can on ... education. Which should obviously now be mandatory to all Americans until the age of 50.

By the way, exactly what do conservatives conserve?

codemorse said...

A-fucking-Men, Mr. Rogers.

And to answer sean's question, I believe "conservatives" (used overgenerally) conserve compassion.

They certainly aren't conserving much of anything else.

This whole body armor debacle is ludicrious. What's maddening is that these folk have come up with a frustratingly effective teflon sheild for themselves. Criticize the Administration and you criticize America. Ergo, any questioning, whether for our country's good or ill, is innately unAmerican and subsequently dismissed. People keep calling it "Orwellian," but I don't think that's accurate. It's more "Carrollian," after Alice in Wonderland. A total breakdown of logic and reason.

Doctor Memory said...

You know, it's a useful argument so far as it goes, but that's not necessarily very far. It's true that their general half-assedness is high among the Cheney administration's loathsome traits, but it is not, shall we say, a necessary precondition to their loathsomeness: if they were not incompetent, if they were truly effective in achieving their stated goals, we would find them more objectionable, not less.

Doctor Memory said...

(Argh, sorry, the theocracywatch article linked to above was not the one I was first hoping to use and is maddeningly poorly organized. Try this.)

coltrane said...

Enough with the politics! I don't come to this site because I want to hear about politics. Even though I agree with most of what you post, there are other, and frankly better blogs about politics out there. I come to this blog for your insights into your professional life as a screenwriter. I realize you need an outlet for your political passions, but start another blog or something and post that stuff there. And while you're at it tell Freidman to get off his ass and post again. I need a good laugh.

Rogers said...

sorry man, this is the package.

And I'm a bit worried about Friedman, myself. I was planning on calling him this week. If only because I need the link-spillover from his posts to keep my ego up.

Joey said...

Nonsense, I enjoy Rogers' articles on politics far more than just about any other blog out there, though Balloon Juice and By Neddie Jingo both are very good as well.

Dayv said...

I've gotta join in in smacking TB around...

I've never seen any kind of mission statement on this blog, and I read it more for the political content and random/geeky humor than the writing stuff, although the writing stuff is also damn fine.

I think this is the best response to requests of a blogger for them to filter out the political content of their blog. TB may not disagree with the political content, but the request is of little greater merit for that caveat.

Rogers said...

hey, no smacking. It was an honest request. Just one that won't be answered.

coltrane said...

Maybe I'd just like to see a little more balance here. A lot of your recent posts have been these long screeds on political subjects, with the posts on screenwriting getting short shrift, which is why I've been frustrated.

Anonymous said...

Somebody once asked general Patten what it took to be a good general. He said "Be a man, know your stuff, and take care of your men."

My brother-in-law almost died in one of those roadside bombs in Iraq. Thankfully he got away with only minor injuries. But it sure does seem like the adiministration has forgotten the wise general's words.

Rogers said...

with the posts on screenwriting getting short shrift, which is why I've been frustrated.

The screenwriting posts tend to take up a lot more work, so it's a bit longer between posts. I know people take thme very seriously, and use them as the basis for thier own work (which is still frikkin boggling) so I've been crafting them a little more carefully. There should be a few coming up soon.

Chris Soth said...

Hey, it's not like you OWE people anything -- it's a blog.

They're scoundrels. Absolute scoundrels. Ok, suppose they're not absolute evil, just incompetent. Would the results be any different? How much worse could it get?

Camps?

GM Doug said...

"How much worse could it get?"

First rule of life... NEVER EVER EVER ask that question.

Because someone somewhere will want to show you.

Far better to ask....

"What can I do to stop the madness and make things better?"

But hey in the meantime.... Iran is restarting their Nuke program today!
Bird Flu has hit in Turkey killing 3 people and infecting 3 more humans.
Greece just had an earthquake - Turkey is next door. Oh and Turkey borders with Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Bird Flu + Earthquake + Nukes in the region.

Yup lets just hope no-one else puts them all the same basket.

Dwight Williams said...

Sean's got an interesting, useful idea for education/training there. Non-stop until age 50? Works for me.

Anonymous said...

So when I start making bumper magnets that say "Support our troops: Send them some body armor", I guess a few people might buy them after all...

Stephen Benson said...

hell, even mussonlini could make italian trains run on time. that's a statement of competence on a grand scale. these guys fail on many levels. remember the "c.e.o. president" line? they dropped that when good buddy kenny boy lay got into all that trouble. i will accept a high level of philosophical and political differences in a public figure if he demonstrates competence on the job. or, at least a demonstration of acknowledging a mistake and giving a clear plan to rectify it. bushies have done none of it. i have your "i'm all out of reasonable" bookmarked and go back to it from time to time. but, on the armor in particular. in viet nam we were offered armor. it was crude, heavy, and most of us chose not to wear it because we felt safer being more agile. the thing was, we had a choice. today our guys don't even get to choose. given the environment of IEDs going off while in convoy, even old, cumbersome armor that was not workable in the jungle would be a more viable option in the cab of a trunk or humvee. give them the choice you arrogant bastards. for me, it always comes back to these guys don't understand combat, because they refused to go. they were never shot at so they can't understand what that means. like socrates warned the athenians separating men of action from men of policy and learning doesn't work. "we would have policy made by cowards and our battles fought by imbeciles."

Phillip Vargas said...

I was in the military and every time I read something like this I’m enraged. These are young people that have pledged their lives to the service of this country and yet their sacrifice means so little those empowered to lead them. It's disheartening.

Paul said...

All snark aside, I enjoy the eclectic nature of this blog.

Anonymous said...

hell, even mussonlini could make italian trains run on time.

Um, well, not so much. So everyone can relax; this administration isn't beaten out by Mussolini when it comes to competence. (Talk about setting the bar low.)

Oh, and I want more posts about candy.

--mds

NonyNony said...

John -

When you say they are "not getting the job done" - which job are you talking about? This is a group of people who are at least aligned with people who want to destroy the Federal Government (they use the metaphor "starve the beast", but that's what it means).

Seems to me that they're doing a fine job of destroying the Federal Government in many, many ways. Both financially, credibility, and infrastructure-wise.

Anonymous said...

Kill bullies kill bullies

Anonymous said...

Kill bullies killkill bullies kill bullies

pamb said...

The political rants are fine, the screenwriting tips are the backbone of this blog, but I'm beginning to miss the occasional happy post, like the link to the transforming dancing car or the cupcake carrier. I think you're doing great and all the people reading and comenting indicate a high level of interest. However, politics lately is so depressing we need a funny break. What about some Canadian politics for a laugh??

The Moviequill said...

love your stuff so I done tagged you for the Screenwriter Meme floating around amongst us hacks
http://moviequill.blogspot.com/

refugee said...

Here's a soldier's response to the body armor issue.

It's long and a little rambling, so let me summarize:

Body armor is all about trade-offs:
"If the entire vest was strong enough to protect from all types of possible bullet wounds it would be so heavy that it would be physically impossible to wear. Also, if the entire vest was as thick and solid as our plates it would be impossible to move around in it and extremely uncomfortable."

The protection/comfort tradeoff is already weighted too far on the side of protection:
"The additional gear (throat, neck, and arm protectors) is so uncomfortable and ridiculous that a lot of soldiers refused to wear them. Units had to threaten soldiers with non-judicial punishment (loss of rank, money, assignment of extra duty, or a combination of these three) to force soldiers to wear them."

War is inherently dangerous:
"Soldiers will always be killed in wars. There is no way to protect soldiers from every type of injury they may face."

Military leaders do care about their soldiers, and work hard to protect them:
"I've been very impressed with the speed the military has shown in getting new and better equipment to us. Within the last year we've already gone through several upgrades in individual body armor. We've been given so much gear that one person could never wear it all."

Let me add that our losses in this war, while painful, have been astonishingly low for the very real gains achieved. (I don't count freeing 50 million Muslims in two countries from brutal tyranny a negligible result. Whether they can maintain their liberty is a separate question.)

In WW 1 & II, 2000 casualties a day were not uncommon. There was almost no armor for anyone except tank crews, and not even they were invulnerable. Most troops moved on foot, or in jeeps and trucks armored with, at best, canvas.

Our enemies have vowed repeatedly, by the name of their god, in the street, from the pulpit, and at the highest levels of various governments, to convert, enslave, or destroy us and everyone who opposes them. They are willing to strap on explosives and blow themselves up to kill a handful of women and children for accepting food and medicine from our troops. These merciless theocrats mean it.

And we're standing here quibbling over whether or not to force our soldiers to strap on additional armor that they do not want because it gets in their way?

Rogers said...

"War is inherently dangerous?"

Really? Sweet God, I had no idea. I thought that all casualties in war were avoidable with proper planning, just like you'll never be involved in a car accident if you drive carefully and wear your seat belt. Because I am a hydrocephalic chimp stoned on Lebanese hash.

First rule: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

It's nice that that one soldier felt spiffy about his body armor. Thousands didn't -- strike that, don't -- nor did their commanders, as evidence by documented repeated requests for more and better body armor by the Army and Marines, not to mention better armored vehicles. The Pentagon has admitted multiple times that this is a problem and that there have been issues with acquisition. But, glad to see you're willing to not take the Pentagon's view of what's necessary. Because THIS anecdote supports your view of what soldiers deserve.

Yeah, the military coroner and investigators who did this study and screamed to have it released are pussies. If you're not freaked out, why should they be?

The more I reflect on your post, to be blunt, the more furious I become.

Troop casualties comparisons to World War I and II are bogglingly irrelevant considering a.) the difference in the sheer numbers of troops and the b.) different nature of the conflict. Hey, if you want, we can say that as long as we never hit Gettysburg levels of casualties, then everything's hunky-dory, and anything less is "quibbling". It's the same logic.

(By the way -- if you swing over to Phil Carter's place (who's currently downrange, by the way) he has an excellent article pointing out that the number of WOUNDED when compared to Vietnam is the same -- the body armor's saving so many more lives, that without it we would indeed have been looking at Vietnam-level fatalities.)

But you know what's really got my panties in a knot right now? That idiotic comparison to the armor levels of World War 2. Yes, back in the day, they didn't have armor. It was also because THAT WAS THE BEST THEY COULD DO. So even though we have better capability now, what's the big deal?

I mean, you feel the same way about YOUR life, right? If you have a brain tumor, but your doctor insisted on treating you with medicine and techniques from 1942, you'd be totally cool with that, right? What if it was your KID'S life? Because you know what, that is SOME OTHER PERSON'S KID'S LIFE we're talking about. That so spectacularly fails the EEBC that it's almost below dignifying with comment.

You know what else was great about World War 2? They has a post-war plan. A BIG one. The one for Japan ran 700 pages. You know what else? When generals fucked up, when things went wrong, they were FIRED or REPLACED. You want to keep drawing parallels, because this precious DoD in place now doesn't get any better the longer you look.

(I don't count freeing 50 million Muslims in two countries from brutal tyranny a negligible result. Whether they can maintain their liberty is a separate question.)

Oh, that is sweet. That is a nice bit of work, automatically exculpating the Administration from any responsibility for Afghanistan and Iraq being shitholes after the war. Hey, we GAVE them freedom. If they couldn't keep it, it's not because the countries were in massive systemic meltdown because we half-assed the post-war planning. No, THEY failed. I mean, how could we not expect democracy to flourish in ethnically striven regions unified only by a century-old artificial colonial boundaries and suffering from total economic and infrastructure post-war devastation? Two years and out baby. Fucking bastards, we gave it to them on a silver platter, and they screwed it up. I look forward to you sadly shaking your head when the Iraqui Islamic theocracy that pretty much every smart Middle-East expert predicted actually occurs. Shocked, shocked to find gambling on these premises ...

Our enemies have vowed repeatedly, by the name of their god, in the street, from the pulpit, and at the highest levels of various governments, to convert, enslave, or destroy us and everyone who opposes them. They are willing to strap on explosives and blow themselves up to kill a handful of women and children for accepting food and medicine from our troops. These merciless theocrats mean it.

And we're standing here quibbling over whether or not to force our soldiers to strap on additional armor that they do not want because it gets in their way?


That's right. It's a whole new war. The Nazis and Communism had nothing on these guys.

Remind us again how serious the threat is. So you can demean any disagreement or criticism of this Administration as "quibbling" in the face of the great threat. Nice piece of rhetoric. Coupled with the single anecdotal letter you use to extrapolate out to the attitudes of every single serving American (unless you're showing off your psychic powers), really a fine piece of ju-jitsu. Your kung-fu is not bad.

But you know what? The seriousness of the threat we face Is. Precisely. My. Point.

This is an international, theologically motivated and swarm-structured enemy who needs to be dealt with in a deadly, innovative and serious manner. So what does this Administration do? Start by dismantling the one nation-state the bad guys had as a base had as a base (aces! good start!), let the bosses escape (not so hot), leave the reconstruction of that country half-done to go chase the Administration's personal hobby-horse (uh, even less hot), invade and dismantle a nation-state enemy we had under complete military and strategic control (gutting our ability to threaten any response to say, Iran or North Korea), alienating both our allies and the potential recruting pool for that same enemy, and then not only have no good plan for post-war reconstruction of that country but putting troops in harm's way with no good post-war plan, no working strategy for achieving the constantly shifting goals, and also not giving them the best equipment available. Oh, and firing anybody who thought any of that was a bad idea.

So let me get this straight -- the Administration screws all that up in the pursuit of this deadly enemy, I'm sitting here demanding accountability, smarter strategy, more and better-allocated resources and a multi-pronged assault of intelligence gathering and international cooperation to hunt down these pricks, and I'm the ones who's not taking this seriously? I want this natioon on war footing. I want a higher tax burden so the airports are secure, our intelligence agencies actually have translators, and we're not recruiting from the bottom third of the barrel. I want long, detailed directives circulated, with concrete operational goals and timetables and benchmarks so we can see that if a strategy or tactic isn't working, it can be adjusted or updated.

What do I get instead? Power-Point stategies and stirring calls to go shopping.

Do this for me. Go down to your local Army base. Go find a unit about to deploy. Tell them that you feel there should be no debate or discussion about making sure they have the best equipment possible, or, say, whther there's really a workable strategy in place for their mission, because, well, in the face of The Great Struggle that's "quibbling."

I have had Creationists here, homophobes, people who believe this nation should be run as a Christian theocracy, readers who favor abstinence-only education, people who feel the invasion of Iraq was a sound idea (my Dad is among those) -- and I have exchanged long and pleasant e-mails with them, or had spirited little chats in the comments, and we've all stayed pals. (The Creationists are particularly nice folks). But you, sir, disgust me. Because even as you pay a little lip service to soldiers ("... while painful") you have somehow constructed in your mind a worldview where you are justified in being cavalier with the lives of fellow Americans.

One of the most powerful things I ever heard was a little exchange on the radio between an American Jewish political writer and an old Israeli general from the '67 war. They were discussing what to do with Gaza, and the American commentator went on five minute explanation about how Israel had to arm up, push the Palestinians out of Israel, grab southern Lebanon for good measure, then bomb the shit out of every possible nuclear reactor in the Middle East.

After a long silence from the old general, the moderator asked if he had a response. The old general said very quietly: "No, I just always have a problem with Americans willing to fight to the last Israeli soldier."

Tell you what. Whatever world you live in where doing my best to make sure that even as soldiers die, as few as possible die needlessly is somehow "qibbling", you're welcome to it. I'll keep quibbling. It's not just my right; it's my goddam duty. I'm sure you'll dismiss me as another person who "just doesn't get it", just doesn't get how the threat we face is so unique absolutely no dissent should be broached, nor any sacrifice by somebody else too great to be borne.

frank said...

Rogers- I knew there was a reason I keep coming back to this site. Watching you hand that guy his ass was a joy. You really should be professionally employed in politics. I'd love to see a wingnut get demolished like that on the News Hour or other talking head show.

Anonymous said...

Testify, Brother John!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Rogers, sir, I salute you. Let it not be mere echo-chamber back-slapping: you rock. Yours is a mighty kung-fu.

Anonymous said...

Cheap accomodation in Chicago http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Cheapchicago.htm

Anonymous said...

Fun things to do in North Wales http://www.lonympics.co.uk/FunthingstodoinNorthWales.htm
Gambling horse racing tips http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Gamblinghorseracingtips.htm
A idea for a movie about a giant monkey http://www.lonympics.co.uk/giantmonkey.htm
A site on giant sloths, the species that died out 10,000 years ago, in North America, and a little later in teh Carribean, and a list of animals that died out in the era of modern, humans, there are loads of these unusual creatures. http://www.lonympics.co.uk/giantsloths.htm
A site in favour of people who wear glasses http://www.lonympics.co.uk/glasses.htm

http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Cheapcam.htm Cheap housing in Cambridge USA.
A site on Gloabal warming http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Gloabalwarming.htm
Gossip site http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Gossip.htm
Random facts, like about chilese http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Goth%20Poetry.htm
A site on the Gypsy and handicapped Holocaust http://www.lonympics.co.uk/gypsy%20and%20handicapped%20holocaust.htm
Harry Truman http://www.lonympics.co.uk/Harry%20truman%20site.htm

Anonymous said...

runescape money runescape gold runescape money runescape gold wow power leveling wow powerleveling Warcraft Power Leveling Warcraft PowerLeveling buy runescape gold buy runescape money runescape items runescape gold runescape money runescape accounts runescape gp dofus kamas buy dofus kamas Guild Wars Gold buy Guild Wars Gold lotro gold buy lotro gold lotro gold buy lotro gold lotro gold buy lotro goldrunescape money runescape power leveling runescape money runescape gold dofus kamas cheap runescape money cheap runescape gold Hellgate Palladium Hellgate London Palladium Hellgate money Tabula Rasa gold tabula rasa money Tabula Rasa Credit Tabula Rasa Credits Hellgate gold Hellgate London gold wow power leveling wow powerleveling Warcraft PowerLeveling Warcraft Power Leveling World of Warcraft PowerLeveling World of Warcraft Power Leveling runescape power leveling runescape powerleveling eve isk eve online isk eve isk eve online isk 血管瘤 肝血管瘤 音乐剧 北京富码电视 富码电视 富码电视台 7天酒店 7天连锁酒店 7天连锁 自清洗过滤器 过滤器 压力开关 压力传感器 流量开关 流量计 液位计 液位开关 温湿度记录仪 风速仪 可燃气体检测仪

SEO said...

液压升降机,苏州升降机,苏州升降机厂,苏州升降机有限公司,施工升降机,丝杆升降机,液压升降平台,电动升降平台,天津升降平台,液压升降平台车,升降平台车,沈阳升降平台,天津登车桥,液压登车桥,移动式登车桥,移动登车桥,移动式液压登车桥,固定式液压登车桥,超市货架,北京货架,南京货架,货架公司,货架厂,广州货架,塑料托盘价格,山东塑料托盘,求购塑料托盘,北京塑料托盘,苏州塑料托盘 ,宁波塑料托盘,折叠式仓储笼,天津仓储笼,苏州仓储笼,南京仓储笼。南京货架,南京货架厂,南京货架公司|上海货架,上海货架厂,上海货架公司|无锡货架,无锡货架厂,无锡货架公司|苏州货架,苏州货架厂,苏州货架公司|北京货架,北京货架厂,北京货架公司|货架公司,北京货架公司,宁波货架公司|广州货架,广州货架厂,广州货架公司|服装货架,服装货架设计,广州服装货架|超市货架,北京超市货架,上海超市货架|仓储货架,北京仓储货架,上海仓储货架|托盘货架,重型托盘货架,托盘货架公司|货架厂,广州货架厂,北京货架厂|仓库货架,北京仓库货架,上海仓库货架|深圳货架,深圳货架厂,深圳货架公司|重型货架,次重型货架,成都重型货架|精品货架,北京精品货架,广州精品货架|天津货架,天津货架厂,天津货架公司|角钢货架,角钢货架厂,万能角钢货架|沈阳货架,沈阳仓储货架,沈阳货架公司|青岛货架,青岛货架公司,青岛仓储货架|轻型货架,北京轻型货架,角钢轻型货架|山东货架,山东货架厂,山东货架公司|杭州货架,杭州货架厂,杭州货架公司|中型货架,上海中型货架,广州中型货架|济南货架,济南货架厂,济南货架公司|郑州货架,郑州货架厂,郑州货架公司|展示货架,上海展示货架,产品展示货架|库房货架,货架厂,北京库房货架|武汉货架,武汉货架厂,武汉货架公司|河南货架,河南货架厂,河南货架公司|货架设计,仓库货架设计,货架设计公司|不锈钢货架,深圳不锈钢货架,上海不锈钢货架|阁楼货架,阁楼式货架,阁楼货架公司|移动货架,电动移动货架,北京移动货架|物流货架,上海物流货架,仓储物流货架|佛山货架,佛山货架厂,佛山货架公司|定做货架,杭州定做货架,天津定做货架|江门货架,贯通式货架,防静电货架|宁波货架,宁波货架厂,宁波货架公司|石家庄货架,石家庄货架厂,石家庄货架公司|重庆货架,重庆货架厂,重庆货架公司|河北货架,河北货架厂,河北货架公司|哈尔滨货架,哈尔滨货架厂,哈尔滨货架公司|悬臂货架,悬臂式货架|图书货架,广东图书货架,深圳图书货架|浙江货架,浙江货架厂,浙江货架公司|货架制作,北京货架制作,上海货架制作|西安货架,西安货架厂,西安货架公司|木托盘,上海木托盘,天津木托盘|北京塑料托盘,苏州塑料托盘,宁波塑料托盘|上海塑料托盘,广东塑料托盘,青岛塑料托盘|武汉塑料托盘,山东塑料托盘,南京塑料托盘|钢制料箱,折叠式料箱,网格式料箱|上海仓储笼,南京仓储笼,天津仓储笼|仓储笼图片,折叠仓储笼,折叠式仓储笼|北京仓储笼,广州仓储笼,宁波仓储笼|货架|托盘|料箱|仓储笼|手推车|登高车|置物架|垃圾桶

SEO said...

北京托盘,南京托盘,上海托盘,苏州托盘,昆明托盘,重庆托盘,天津托盘,武汉托盘,湖南托盘,湖北托盘

Anonymous said...

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
托盘
钢托盘
堆垛架
钢制料箱
物流台车
手推车
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
托盘
钢托盘
堆垛架
巧固架
钢制料箱
物流台车
载物台车
手推车
手推车
轻型货架
角钢货架
中型货架
次重型货架
重型货架
横梁式货架
托盘式货架
贯通式货架
通廊式货架
阁楼货架
钢平台
精品货架
展示货架
悬臂式货架
抽屉式货架
模具货架
辊轮式货架
流利式货架
移动式货架
密集架
网片
隔离网
护栏
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
钢托盘
钢制托盘
置物柜
置物架
挂板架
物料整理架
单挂钩
直挂钩
螺丝刀架
扳手架
工作台
工作桌
线棒货架
输送辊道
辊道输送机
不锈钢制品
不锈钢推车
仓储笼
钢托盘
塑料托盘
钢制料箱
物流台车
堆垛架
静音手推车
手动液压托盘搬运车
登高车
手动堆高车
平台车
仓储货架
仓库货架
库房货架
南京货架
中型货架
横梁式货架
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
纸托盘
折叠式仓储笼
仓库笼
钢制料箱
工具柜
工作台
手动液压托盘搬运车
手动液压堆高车
仓库货架
中量A型货架
仓储货架
横梁式货架
货位式货架
托盘
塑料托盘
钢制托盘
纸托盘
仓储笼
折叠式仓储笼
仓库笼
蝴蝶笼
储物笼
手动液压托盘搬运车
手动液压堆高车
仓储货架
仓库货架
库房货架
南京货架
中型货架
横梁式货架
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
纸托盘
折叠式仓储笼
仓库笼
钢制料箱
工具柜
工作台
手动液压托盘搬运车
手动液压堆高车
仓库货架
中量A型货架
仓储货架
中量B型货架
库房货架
横梁式货架
货位式货架
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
栈板
塑料托盘
塑料栈板
纸托盘
栈板
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
蝴蝶笼
储物笼
钢制料箱
钢质周转箱
网格式料箱
手动液压托盘搬运车
托盘搬运车
货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
库房货架
南京货架
上海货架
北京货架
轻型货架
中型货架
搁板式货架
重型货架
横梁式货架
托盘货架
托盘
木托盘
纸托盘
木塑托盘
托盘
钢托盘
塑料托盘
钢制托盘
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
手推车
静音手推车
铁板手推车
物料架
整理架
挂板架
钢制料箱
钢制周转箱
网格式料箱
料箱
手动液压托盘搬运车
电动托盘搬运车
手动液压堆高车
半电动堆高车
手动叉车
塑料周转箱
物流箱
塑料化工桶
塑料卡板箱
工具柜
上海工具柜
南京工具柜
抽屉柜
工作台
工作桌
南京工作台
上海工作台
刀具车
刀具柜
刀具架
刀具座
仓储货架
仓库货架
库房货架
南京货架
中型货架
横梁式货架
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
纸托盘
折叠式仓储笼
仓库笼
钢制料箱
工具柜
工作台
手动液压托盘搬运车
手动液压堆高车
仓库货架
中量A型货架
仓储货架
中量B型货架
库房货架
横梁式货架
货位式货架
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
栈板
塑料托盘
塑料栈板
纸托盘
栈板
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
蝴蝶笼
储物笼
钢制料箱
钢质周转箱
网格式料箱
手动液压托盘搬运车
托盘搬运车
仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓储笼
仓库笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
折叠仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼

仓储笼
仓储笼

仓储笼
仓库笼
折叠式仓储笼
托盘
托盘
托盘
托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
塑料托盘
塑料托盘

托盘
塑料托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
铁托盘
托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘

托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘

托盘
托盘
钢托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
塑料托盘

托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘
托盘
钢托盘
铁托盘
钢制托盘
塑料托盘

托盘
托盘

托盘
钢托盘
钢制托盘
托盘
塑料托盘


货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
货架厂

货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架公司

货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架公司

货架
货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架厂
货架公司
货架公司
货架
货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架厂
货架公司
货架公司

货架
货架
货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
仓库货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架厂
货架厂
货架公司
货架公司
货架公司
货架
货架
货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓储货架
仓库货架
仓库货架
货架厂
货架厂
货架公司
货架公司
货架
货架
货架

货架
轻量型货架
角钢货架
货架
中量型货架
次重型货架
货位式货架
重量型货架
横梁式货架
仓储货架
阁楼式货架
钢平台
仓储货架
悬臂式货架
仓储货架
贯通式货架
通廊式货架
驶入式货架
仓库货架
库房货架
抽屉式货架
模具货架
仓库货架
库房货架
汽车4S店货架
汽配库货架
货架厂
货架公司
南京货架
上海货架
无锡货架
苏州货架
货架厂
货架公司
北京货架
天津货架
沈阳货架
大连货架
货架厂
货架公司
广州货架
深圳货架
宁波货架
杭州货架

南京货架
货架公司
货架厂
仓库货架
仓储货架
货架
货架

mistersipilis said...

Obat kencing nanah doxycycline
Obat kencing nanah di samarinda
Nama obat kencing nanah di apotik
Nama obat kencing nanah di apotek
Obat kencing nanah kimia farma
Obat farmasi kencing nanah
Obat kencing nanah gonore
Obat kencing nanah generik
Obat kencing nanah go
Obat gonorrhea kencing nanah
Obat gejala kencing nanah
Nama obat kencing nanah yang di jual di apotik
Tempat jual obat kencing nanah
Apotik jual obat kencing nanah
Apotik yg jual obat kencing nanah
Jual obat kencing nanah di jakarta
Jual obat kencing nanah di surabaya
Jual obat kencing nanah bandung
Obat kencing nanah kaskus
Obat kencing keluar nanah
Obat kencing keluar nanah di apotik
Obat kutil kelamin tradisional
Obat kutil kelamin
Obat kutil kelamin wanita
Obat kutil kelamin di apotik
Obat kutil kelamin denature
Obat kutil kelamin resep dokter
Obat kutil kelamin malaysia
Obat kutil kelamin apotik
Obat kutil kelamin di anus

Riyan Cilacap said...

Thank You Verry Much, Ijin nitip gan dan trimaksih atas infonya

Obat Sakit Kelamin De Nature
Pengobatan Kutil Kelamin
Cara Mengobati Kutil Kelamin
Kutil Kelamin
Obat Kutil Kelamin
Obat Condyloma
Obat Jengger Ayam
Obat Sipilis
Obat Gonore
Obat Raja Singa
Obat Kencing Nanah
Obat Chlamydia
Obat Herpes
Obat Herpes Genital
Obat Herpes Kelamin
Obat Herpes Zoster
Obat Herpes Badan
Obat Jengger Ayam
Obat Kutil Kelamin
Obat Kondiloma
Obat Condyloma Accuminata
Obat Jengger Ayam Pria Dan Wanita
Obat Kutil Kelamin Pada Pria Dan Wanita