Friday, June 24, 2005

I'm All Out of Reasonable.

Constipated writer, in the comments to the Rove post, writes:
"There are some legit points in that Washington Post article amongst the avalanche spin and back tracking. People might as well face facts-Liberals are just as scandolous as the Conservatives. Just depends on which practice you feel less disturbed about."
No.

No.

No.

Let me make this perfectly plain.

The man who runs the White House, the man who's run every one of the president's campaigns, the man who controls every public and private move of this administration just said -- no, demonstrably, factcheckingly LIED about liberals not wanting to go to war after 9/11 and then implicated that liberals' "motives" are aid and comfort to the enemy. To wit, the colloquial understanding of treason.

Not some internet fundraising group.

Not some unelected film-maker.

Not some fucking BLOGGER.

The guy. Who runs. The White House.

And he didn't just say there were "different approaches" to dealing with terrorism. He lied about liberals' response to 9/11, and then he accused them of treason.

I am sick of this "a plague on both your houses" bullshit. I am sick of, every time I bring up what Bush has demonstrably, verifiably failed to do to armor our troops, plan for the invasion, secure our homeland and care for our soldiers when they return, and somebody says "Yeah, but Dick Durbin said" or "Yeah, but Howard Dean said ..."

Why yes, sure, sometimes there are shades of grey, sometimes both sides can be excessive -- and sometimes there's no moral relativism at all, and a man reveals himself to be the amoral, desperate black spot on the pancreatic x-ray of humanity that he is.

Dick Durbin was quoting an FBI report. Howard Dean doesn't like the heads of the Republican party -- he didn't accuse them of FUCKING TREASON from extension phone to the Oval Office. That's not spin. That's McCarthyism, pure and goddam simple. Once you drop the T-bomb, you take yourself right out of politics as usual and drop yourself right into the "dangerous pig-eyed fuck who thinks there's too much free-speech" category.

Did you know that the definition of treason is quite specifically defined in the Consititution? Did you know it's the only crime actually spelled out in the Constitution? DO. YOU. KNOW. WHY?

No. Of course you don't. Nobody ever bothers to read the goddam thing.

Because the Founding Fathers had seen the charge of treason used too many times against the political opponents of the British Government. They knew, when the government gets nervous and breaks out the Big Evil Golf Bag of Shutting Up Questions, the first club out is the Treason Charge. They knew the first guy to yell treason was the bastard.

And none of this matters. You say both sides use harsh rhetoric -- fine, throw out the rhetoric. Let's just go by actions. Who voted down increases for the VA to take care of soldiers THREE TIMES in the last year? Who voted against exempting soldier's families from the new bankruptcy laws, so they're just as likely -- no MORE likely because of the extended length of Reservists' stay - to lose their homes? Who sent our troops improperly armored into a war? Who went into a war in one of the most politically volatile regions on the planet without a proper postwar plan ? Who got rid of any general or staffer who suggested Iraq would be anything other than a cakewalk? Who took troops away from the pursuit of the guy who actually toppled the towers so they could prep the Iraq War? Who spent weeks jerking off over Terry Schiavo while the 9/11 Commission BEGGED them, ANYONE to put into practice even a fraction of the recommendations they made to secure this nation's innocent civilians?

You know who. ONE of those two sides. Those two sides you say are equivalent. I call bullshit.

And for the architect of those policies to come out and accuse anyone who thinks that maybe, just maybe, the guy who's the current occupant of the people's house should be accountable to the citizens paying his salary, that those people are TRAITORS -- that the people who have the temerity to ask a question or two are somehow the problem ...

So you know what? Go ahead. Call me a traitor. Call me a traitor, for never taking "just because" as an answer, for never trusting any government, even my own (just like Jefferson warned us). Call me a traitor for actually being idiotic enough to think that the life of some other family's son, daughter, husband, wife, father, mother is worth asking questions of men in comfortable suits in air conditioned offices. Call me a traitor while I point out the man who blew up the towers is not only alive, the CIA says we know exactly where he is. Call me a traitor while I ask whether it's true we were lied to in the run-up to the war. Call me a traitor for politely mentioning that hey, we never found any WMD's, the inspectors were doing their jobs, it turns out Saddam had no Al-Queda ties at all, Afghanistan actually wasn't finished and could we maybe clear a few things up? Call me a traitor when I suggest that missile defense is idiotic while our ports and borders lay open right now. Call me a traitor while I ask why the richest nation in the world, with ample prep time, sent soldiers into the field ill-equipped, and now fails to take care of them properly when wounded. Call me a traitor for asking "Hey, why do you keep saying you did PLENTY of pre-war planning, when that would seem to imply that the current clusterfuck is Plan A, which would actually make you more inept."

Go ahead and call me traitor, because somehow in your head the world's just too damn scary a place to consider that the guy in charge just might not be the guy you need him to be to feel safe.

Go ahead, and be too weak to ask questions. Be too weak to use the greatest gift God in his infinite wisdom gave us -- doubt.

Just be strong enough to hate.

Keep calling me a traitor.

Because I smell it, Rove.

You never, EVER come out from behind the curtain. There's something out there ... maybe it's the Downing Street Memo, maybe it's the falling polls, maybe it's the sick corruption around Tom DeLay, maybe it's something we haven't even found yet, but you know it's out there ...

So that's the last I'll speak of this. Because this is what you want. A firestorm, partisanship. Liberals vs. Conservatives, so those conservatives who've started voicing doubts come back onto the reservation. You Washington Republicans know the real Republicans --the reasonable fiscal responsibility small government Republicans -- are starting to realize that you are not representing what the party's supposed to be about. You want people focusing on how nasty the rhetoric is, so nobody sees the real struggle. It's not Liberals vs. Conservatives. It's never really Liberals vs. Conservatives:

The real struggle is always Facts vs. Lies.

Sometimes I'm a liberal (to my father's dismay). Sometimes I'm a conservative (to my friends' and wife's dismay). But you know what I always am?

I'm a guy who believes in facts. And right now, I know whose side they're sitting on.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

Fuck yea!

Anonymous said...

And I thought I read to much warren ellis. You sound more like spider jeruselum every day. This is not a bad thing. Do us all a favor and leave this one up.

Pretty please.

Avedon said...

Call me a traitor for asking "Hey, why do you keep saying you did PLENTY of pre-war planning, when that would seem to imply that the current clusterfuck is Plan A, which would actually make you more inept."

No, that would make them even more evil, because that would mean they actually planned the murder of all those people deliberately.

DJ said...

“All aboard the Rant Train”. Good to have you back son. I can’t believe that the Republicans are against stem-cell research. ‘Cause they must capture the essence of Rove and seal it in a 50-ton block of cement then drop it in the deepest part of the ocean. Pick a trench ant trench. Because even the Republicans have to be getting scared of him.

The Constipated Writer said...

"I'm all out of reasonable"

Obviously! ......

Glad to see I am targeted by your rant! First of all, the whole Washington Post article is not dealing with Rove alone, and I didn't say HE had some points. Nowhere did I say, hey, that Rove fella, he's a good guy who made some points. Secondly, all I said was 'there were some legit points amongst the avalanche of spin and back tracking'. That sentence implies that there are a few slivers of truth in a big bad bag of bullshit. And that is true. Does that mean I'm a raving conservative. Fuck no. I'n not a bleeding heart either. In fact, in your response, you come off like a radical 'leftist'. I come off as a person with little trust of the government, in any capacity, no matter what party is slapped into office. (Anarchist? militia?) So while I enjoyed your rant, I must tell you, I still believe both parties are bullshit, that makes me a cynic, and that's how I like it.

"You know who. ONE of those two sides. Those two sides you say are equivalent. I call bullshit."

That's fine. And true. If you live in a vacuum of this past 5 years. I do not break it down to only present day issues. With every administration, there has been a royal raping of the people of America. For you to single out one administration is okay. I choose to say this whole god damned goverment has been killing you, me and everyone else since George fucking Washington. That makes me a realist, not a Liberal or conservative.

-Political Analyst for Fox News-

Ian said...

Why do the ones with their heads furthest up their own asses always spend so much time trumpeting what canny, hard-nosed "realists" they are?

I'm not going to go over all the crap in that comment, but I will point out that if John's rant sounds to you like far-leftist thought, that only shows how far to the right the discourse has been skewed in the past couple of decades.

The Constipated Writer said...

"Why do the ones with their heads furthest up their own asses always spend so much time trumpeting what canny, hard-nosed "realists" they are?"

I would hardly call referring to myself as a realist one time to be trumpeting, would you? My post was not a slam at John at all. I agree with almost everything in his post. I was accused of saying Rove made some legit points, and I responded to that. I don't think that makes me canny, or hard nosed. Basically, I made my hatred for what has become a two party system too obvious. I apologize for having my head up my ass so far that I actually found a opinion differing from your own.

Rogers said...

Now now, I was specifically targetting that "plague on both your houses" sense Constipated Writer summoned up -- not he himself. I've heard CW's type of viewpoint before -- we get a fair number of libertarians here, especially as I sort of backed my way into liberalism through libertarianism, and it shows in the writing.

I still find the idea of equivalence logically insupportable (these bastards are bankrupting the nation while waging a dubious ewar, but don't forget THOSE bastards blanced the budget while getting blow jobs), but it's his worldview and he's welcome to it.

I also don't much care for cynicism disguised as realism, but whatever gets you through the day. I just personally find it cowardly, because saying the system is so corrupt as to be unfixable absolves one from the moral charge of making any effort to fix it.

The Constipated Writer said...

I don't think it's unfixable. But there needs to be a huge cleansing of both sides before I say we're on the right track. I'm not a cynic by choice, I'm a cynic because of what I see. I'm more than willing to vote for any candidate that shows he/she can turn this country around. I just don't believe that person is in either party right now. And the fact that Independents get little in the way of support angers me. And my anger overflows into forums because I haven't been to my shrink lately. :)

Make the logo bigger said...

I reject Rove's original statement, (along with the subsequent and idiotic commentary by Scott McClellan and DeLay), when they said Rove 'was telling it like it is.“

That ain’t how it is. As I recall on 9/11, a Democratic president wasn’t the one sitting there for almost 10 minutes with a deer-in-the-headlights stare before getting up and responding.

So I guess only Republicans joined the military after 9/11, and only Republicans are dying and being wounded over there?

Interesting that if you even attempt to understand the other side, you automatically become a “sympathizer” for the enemy. So the A.C.L.U. speaks out on Gitmo and now all Dems are labeled as draft dodgers? Way to spin it Karl.

Toast said...

Dude, that was a righteous post. The biggest battle isn't reaching the GOP's hard-core 30-40%. They're lost. The biggest battle is getting through to the idiots who still persist in their fantasy that both sides are the same.

Both sides. ARE NOT. The same.

Shout it from the mountain top.

Anonymous said...

I'm asking this in a generalist view - as I'm not an American but someone who likes to visit your country. (Prefer Canada to be honest).

Anyway - perhaps off base here, perhaps WAY off base here.

But can someone ask around, seriously ask your parents, grandparents etc.

Is this like the McCarthy witchtrials? Is it? No BS just asking. Because I can't figure out if this is a phase (as McCarthy's bs was) or the death rattle of the far right - who really only have one maybe two elections left before their key vote will join the famous parrot from Monty Python - or is it well I hate to say this...

Far more sinister?

My friend who happens to be german pointed out that some of the rethoric that we hear over in good old blighty - sounds like someone is trying to whip up the same level of insane patriotisim and "don't ask questions" that a well known Austrian who became a German citizen achieved.

Now don't get me wrong here neither my friend or myself are thinking that we are months away before we end up with camps and rounding up of muslims or that things will go that far....

But right now what's stopping that happening? Where's the check and balance on this? Is there one?

Is there some sort of agenda being played out here? One that goes beyond 4 more years to something more fundamental. Such as - say oil is about to run out in 5 years time and we've all been lied to about it to keep us happy. So they'll NEED an army/war to keep everyone together an not question why the authorities are doing X Y and Z? Hell it could be just to plain take over the world? Or prepare for a Massive invasion of China or something (If you want to hit china you'll need the Russians and Korean's on side and India out of the way)? Hell it could be the Aliens are coming and we need to all be prepare for war or something. Maybe Rove and co just SEE aliens attacking?

Anyway what I'm asking here is this... will this pass - assuming the usual common sense and political preasure is applied (ala the death of the HUNAC/McCarthy commision) or is this something we need to start getting VERY afraid of and might need to get into a real fight to deal with.

Just wondering?

GM Doug said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I meant the rethoric coming from the US Government/white house that we see on TV / media over here. Not that our government is spouting the same BS... But then we do have Blair and his new VISION for Europe....

Anonymous said...

or is this something we need to start getting VERY afraid of and might need to get into a real fight to deal with.

I think that the USA has had some serious rot in the government for decades. It finally started showing up in the Clinton era, and now it's broken the surface.

I'm sorry, but the more I see the festering wounds, the more I think it's terminal.

Remember, after the fall of the Roman Empire, there were people walking around saying "I used to be a Roman". I think we'll see in our lifetimes... "I used to be an American".

And it'll be a real shame, too... because America held so much promise!

Aric Blue said...

Honestly, I'm more afraid of our government than I am of any other country's terrorists.

And that was before the Supreme Court ruled the government can seize your property for PRIVATE use!

Anonymous said...

The bigger the call for a pull-out the less likly Bush will do it....the less there is a call for a pull out the more likly Bush will do it. I't's how he operates...can't appear weak at all costs.
It'll be another 8-12 years though before a Dem is elected president.
The republicans have one thing going for them..they don't come off as pussys who can't make a decision.
Hence John Kerry

Anonymous said...

Lol..your more afraid of the u.s. government than a foreign terrorist. That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Anonymous said...

Lol..your more afraid of the u.s. government than a foreign terrorist. That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Speaking of heads up asses...

Anonymous said...

just stopped by this site for the first time...and was very impressed with the 'all out of reasonable' post.
Very well written indeed..
i suppose the saddest thing is that so many might read this (considering the current climate in your country) and consider the writer a 'leftist'...
the way the spin doctors in the states have made 'left and right' and liberal and conservative such four letter words is astounding in an orwellian kind of way.
Its a shame that a country as great as the US can turn on it's own people so easily. so callously.
Let alone bomb the living fuck out of other countries ....
anyhow, it was a great read, although i wish the subject matter lent itself to hope a bit more...
unfortunately it doesn't....maybe in a few years things will heal up a bit....now THAT would be nice.
:)

Spanky said...

"It'll be another 8-12 years though before a Dem is elected president."

I think you are wrong. I predict that McCain will get snubbed (again) in the Republican primary, and will cross over to the Democrats. Clinton/McCain vs. Giuliani/Minority to be Named Later. Hell, the way things are going, even I am considering Hillary. The Democrats will win in a 51%/47% (2% Independent / Green / Libertarian) vote. You heard it hear first.
-Devin.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm just glad to see another liberal ready to put his full support behind America fighting and winning the war against jihadist terrorism.

That's exactly what you've been doing all along, isn't it?

(checks back through your archives).

Oh. Maybe not...

Wait- why are you upset again?

Gwyn said...

America fighting and winning the war against jihadist terrorism.

Yes, because all of our previous wars against nouns -- poverty, drugs -- have been so incredibly successful.

Anonymous said...

So then... just to be clear-- you *don't* consider the war against terrorism to be worth winning? Are you instead saying it would be better to "understand" and make appeasement towards our our enemies?

Seriously, I'm confused.

Whats your plan? I'm all ears.

Chip said...

The "War on Terrorism" would be worth winning if that catchphrase actually meant anything. Terrorism is not an enemy. It is not a country. It is not a group or individual or faction. It is not something that you can wage war on. It is a tactic. You can't declare war on a tactic. The "War on Terrorism" is just a catchy and meaningless campaign phrase, on par with the previous wars on drugs, poverty, and so forth.

So Anonymous, how about you explain YOUR plan, eh? What is this grand War or Terrorism? How's about you fill us in on how diverting the military's attention from the hunt for Al Quaeda in order to start the totally unrelated war in Iraq was a good idea. Explain how creating a terrorist stronghold in Iraq through this administration's totally bungled management of the war is in any way helping to stifle terrorism. Explain why Osama bin Laden is still alive. Explain Bush's claims that our problems in Iraq are the fault of the troops -- who any reasonable person knows executed the actual military operations flawlessly -- and not the fault of the administration whose job it was to plan the postwar occupation.

Oh, wait, you can't. So you vomit forth some line about how those of us who have questions must want to coddle the terrorists. Gee, thanks for filling us in on that.

You could at least sign your posts with something other than "Anonymous".

Chip said...

The "War on Terrorism" would be worth winning if that catchphrase actually meant anything. Terrorism is not an enemy. It is not a country. It is not a group or individual or faction. It is not something that you can wage war on. It is a tactic. You can't declare war on a tactic. The "War on Terrorism" is just a catchy and meaningless campaign phrase, on par with the previous wars on drugs, poverty, and so forth.

So Anonymous, how about you explain YOUR plan, eh? What is this grand War or Terrorism? How's about you fill us in on how diverting the military's attention from the hunt for Al Quaeda in order to start the totally unrelated war in Iraq was a good idea. Explain how creating a terrorist stronghold in Iraq through this administration's totally bungled management of the war is in any way helping to stifle terrorism. Explain why Osama bin Laden is still alive. Explain Bush's claims that our problems in Iraq are the fault of the troops -- who any reasonable person knows executed the actual military operations flawlessly -- and not the fault of the administration whose job it was to plan the postwar occupation.

Oh, wait, you can't. So you vomit forth some line about how those of us who have questions must want to coddle the terrorists. Gee, thanks for filling us in on that.

You could at least sign your posts with something other than "Anonymous".

Chip said...

Damn. When I double-post, do the terrorists win?

(Sorry about that.)

Anonymous said...

M'self, I think that the point is not 'we have to defeat terrorism', but 'we have to figure out why terrorism is going on and deaql with the reasons that people think it makes sense to do such insane shit'.

You don't beat ideology with bombs; if you were able to do so, then Santayana ('he who does not learn from history is destined to repeat it') would be demonstrably and completely wrong. For that matter, Vietnam would have gone quite differently.

Michael Pate said...

The real cause of Terrorism in the Middle East is economic desperation that provides cannon fodder for charismatic leaders like Osama bin Laden to tap into. With overt and covert support from governments like Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Saudi Arabia, they were able to spread their message through out the Arab World and recruit the kind of monsters who were able to do what they did on September 11th. Combating that has taken a set of pure military force in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. It has taken diplomatic efforts in Libya and Lebanon. To expect a single strategy to be equally effective discounts the diverse cultures found through the region.
Specifically in Iraq, Saddam Hussein had ties to multiple terrorist groups and held the threat of using weapons of mass destruction over the heads of everyone in the region. Progress was not going to be made as long as he was devoting all his efforts to make sure that it wasn't. As much as we all want to see bin Laden pay for his crimes, I think that is only a small part of the War on Terror. And in that, we are still closer to the beginning than the end although there are plenty of things to be encouraged about.
But to ignore the fact that all these successes were made despite the best efforts of Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Jimmy Carter, Howard Dean, Ward Churchill, Moveon.org, and others of their ilk is absolutely being unreasonable.

Sick of the BOYN parties said...

Sometimes I'm a liberal (to my father's dismay). Sometimes I'm a conservative (to my friends' and wife's dismay). But you know what I always am?

I'm a guy who believes in facts. And right now, I know whose side they're sitting on.


Sure you're not a libertarian?

When is the movement to impeach Bush, Cheney, Frist, Hastert, DeLay and the rest of the slime going to get started for real? I'm sick of the mainstream media not questioning more strongly the lies and fabrications the Bushies have been spewing for the past 5 years.
And Fox Propaganda owner Rupert Murdoch ought to have his citizenship revoked.

And the next libertarian that says something good abour Ronny Ray-guns, I'll personally put a .44 magnum bullet right between their eyes.

I quote this article about the scumbag Murdoch:

"His 1985 purchase of the Metromedia television stations required him to become an American citizen to comply with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) restrictions on foreign ownership of U.S. television stations; many felt he received inordinately preferential treatment by the Reagan administration in expediting the citizenship process."

Gwyn said...

But to ignore the fact that all these successes were made despite the best efforts of Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, Jimmy Carter, Howard Dean, Ward Churchill, Moveon.org, and others of their ilk is absolutely being unreasonable.

I suppose it would be entirely too goddamn reasonable of me to point out that the individuals named/smeared here do not represent some sort of monolithic bloc, that they hold a widely differing spectrum of positions on various issues, and that -- just to take one example -- calling Jimmy Carter, the Mr. Rogers of former presidents, the guy who goes around building houses for poor people for fun, IN ANY WAY a supporter of terror is outright, shit-flinging slander. It wasn't his administration that armed Hussein in the first place. I suppose it would also be way too reasonable to point out, as many have before, that bin Laden and crew are religious freaks who held the secular Baathist regime in total contempt... because that's the kind of subtle distinction that flies right over the heads of those who think that anything less than giving Dubya blow jobs in public amounts to anti-Americanism.

Tomas L. Martin said...

I totally agree. Most people in The world right now are calling bullshit on the current American regime, but the main problem is not so much the american people or even the regime, even though I think a lot of what they stand for and what they've done is despicable. The main problem the US faces is its extreme lack of media scrutiny. No matter what the government does, it has the media bought and paid to go along with it. Fox, most of all, but all the others go along with the idea that the President et al are not to be questioned. so the american public has no idea about most of the stuff that gets brushed under the carpet - and so thinks everything's fine and dandy. There is the really worrying thing, the really Orwellian thing. They have no need for a governemnt facility altering history when the media just writes it however they want it anyway.

Anonymous said...

My alarm clock-radio is set to Rush Limbaugh because I thought he would piss me off enough to get me out of bed. Funny thing is that when you said:

The main problem the US faces is its extreme lack of media scrutiny. No matter what the government does, it has the media bought and paid to go along with it.

I could have sworn that was Limbaugh talking. He says just about the very same thing over and over and over again - just substitute "liberal" for "government" and you'll have it.

Tomas L. Martin said...

Anonymous said: I could have sworn that was Limbaugh talking. He says just about the very same thing over and over and over again - just substitute "liberal" for "government" and you'll have it.

this may have a grain of truth. But when most of today's headlines revolve around a pair of journalists forced to give up their sources to the government, I think that surely is more of a concern. It's not exactly a free press when the reporters can be charged for reporting the wrong thing. If what happened to these Time reporters sets a precedent, independent journalism in the US is going to be even more difficult. And without independent journalism, who is there to keep the government in check?

Karl said...

I'm going to start a pool that has Bush finding Usama right toward the end of the second term, and in the celebration, asks for Congress to extend a President's term to three...with him being the third time runner...

He's probably having Smores with the bastard in the cave right now.

Adela said...

It's not exactly a free press when the reporters can be charged for reporting the wrong thing. If what happened to these Time reporters sets a precedent, independent journalism in the US is going to be even more difficult. And without independent journalism, who is there to keep the government in check?

However, let me point out that revealing the name of a CIA agent can put that person's life in serious danger... reporters who print things like that should face prosecution, in my opinion. A free press should not mean an irresponsible press. When they print something that puts a person's life in danger they have just lost the right to be unquestionable. Besides -- their veracity is not being questioned -- merely the identity of the person who divulged that information.

shep said...

I could have sworn that was Limbaugh talking. He says just about the very same thing over and over and over again - just substitute "liberal" for "government" and you'll have it.

I don’t think many people (certainly not Limbaugh) understand media bias very well. It’s much less ideological and much more psychological than either the pro-government (remember how the media dogged Nixon and Clinton?) or pro-liberal (see ”Clinton”). By that I mean ideologies are adopted essentially for the psychological need to be an accepted or admired member of the herd. Conform with the group or be left out (the geographic determinant of red/blue politics can be understood in the same way).

Billmon puts it thus:

“[James] Glassman is a product of the closed loop of modern punditry, in which career success has absolutely nothing to do with being right about anything, and everything to do with being ideologically au courant and politically well connected. In other words, Glassman is to the financial markets what Charles Krauthammer is to Iraq -- a symbol of the triumph of a consensus fantasy over a subversive reality.”

http://billmon.org/archives/001977.html

David said...

I have to wonder how bad a Republican President would have to be , how badly would he have to abuse power, before everyday Republicans disowned him.

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