tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post113094918131906475..comments2024-03-29T02:31:50.143-07:00Comments on Kung Fu Monkey: Funnybook Publishing Part 1: Old and BustedAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12551450586119958881noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-22229780521137165092012-04-01T13:46:15.703-07:002012-04-01T13:46:15.703-07:00Pretty worthwhile data, lots of thanks for your po...Pretty worthwhile data, lots of thanks for your post.olsonsfoodemporiumhttp://olsonsfoodemporium.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1137999733571649532006-01-22T23:02:00.000-08:002006-01-22T23:02:00.000-08:00Brilliant discussion! I love it.I came into comics...Brilliant discussion! I love it.<BR/><BR/>I came into comics pretty late in life (18 years old to be exact), so I never formed a childhood connection with superhero comics. I started reading regularly around the same time Sin City was starting up, and if it wasn't for Frank Miller, I may have lost interest in comics all together.<BR/><BR/>I don't dislike superheros, but when it comes to genre, superheroes pretty far down my list (down there with faeries and unicorns). But as a creator it does concern me that I probably can't earn a nice living in comics doing the genres I love (horror, thriller, crime and traditional drama). If I want to earn a stable living drawing comics, it's superheros or nothing. That's a real problem. It's also a problem that talented creators that DON'T want to work on a superhero book take a look at the industry and may choose to move on and find some other creative field to enter, such as prose, film, TV, video games, etc. <BR/><BR/>I've been in comics for a couple of years now, I buy tons of comics, and I do a lot of conventions. I honestly don't think supply is the problem. We've got amazing comics popping in constantly in all shapes and sizes, covering every single genre and style. The variety is truly staggering. But the truth is that most fail due to lack of fan/retailer support. I know at least 8 talented creators that gave 'indy' comics a shot, lost their asses, and moved on to greener pastures. Now, I'm not talking about wanna-bees. I'm talking about quality stories that should be able to survive on their own merit if given a chance. The problem wasn't quality, the problem was that they didn't have spandex. Fans simply don't want 'indy' books. <BR/><BR/>A lot of this has to do with the Comics Code killing off nearly everything but superheros and Archie. Crime, romance and horror fans saw their books canceled or watered down so they moved on. The Comics Code eventually got rejected, but the fans never came back. I'm no even sure we're trying to get those fans back. We know they're out there, we just don't reach them. Some say it's because comic shops are creepy and we're not on the supermarket shelf or in 7/11. And that's probably true. I don't know how to fix that, but I do know that ONLY comic fans are going into comic shops. That can't help.<BR/><BR/>Lee, Ditko and Kirby created giants. They created icons that stood the test of time. That should be respected, honored and cared for with the respect they deserve. But the big houses aren't about creating anymore. They're about maintaining. Every couple of months a new creative team comes along to 'shake things up' only to be replaced by a new creative team that 'returns the book to its original glory.' And the cycle continues. <BR/><BR/>What exactly are we doing? We're taking Kirby out of the fridge, sticking him in the microwave and praying that he's still fresh. And he is, obviously. It's the only stuff fans are buying. But we never moved on. We never learned how to cook. Or maybe we're cooking, but the fan's aren't eating. I can't put my finger on the problem, probably because it's a combination of MANY problems. Lack of advertising, late books, rising prices, creepy comic shops, incomprehensible continuity baggage, no supermarket or convenience store presence, whatever. I don't have the answers. But FINALLY!!, we're talking about the problems. That's gonna help.<BR/><BR/>My goal is to try and help build a TRUE mainstream in comics. A place where a Brian M. Bendis crime comic will sell on the same level as his Avengers or Daredevil book. That might keep him at the keyboard writing a crime comic every month along with his superhero books, instead of focusing all his talent on ONLY superheroes. That's an industry I want to work in, and as a fan, that's what I want to read.<BR/><BR/>I wrote a little open letter a while back calling for a Comic Book Renaissance. A rediscovery and relearning of what we've lost. Hopefully the conversation will continue and we can really get a Renaissance started. It's long overdue. <BR/><BR/>http://comicbookbin.com/kodychamberlain.htmlKody Chamberlainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13790959173177689288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1133078437835953922005-11-27T00:00:00.000-08:002005-11-27T00:00:00.000-08:00Is there still going to be a part two of this?Is there still going to be a part two of this?Robert Burke Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16580834182776383137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131899480923674092005-11-13T08:31:00.000-08:002005-11-13T08:31:00.000-08:00Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131834587608064832005-11-12T14:29:00.000-08:002005-11-12T14:29:00.000-08:00Also, define "new". I mean really, what doesn't ge...Also, define "new". <BR/>I mean really, what doesn't get that horrid "X meets y" comparison, or seems like a "rip off" of something else. <BR/>Also, if this new is TOO comparable to something else, then things get ugly legal. <BR/>I mean, god forbid if Bob Kane had to ask permission to use the thematic elements of Zorro in today's market.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08136320295794540864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131389208399176932005-11-07T10:46:00.000-08:002005-11-07T10:46:00.000-08:00My comics store encounter:1) Walk in2) See endless...My comics store encounter:<BR/><BR/>1) Walk in<BR/>2) See endless racks of endless titles<BR/>3) WTF is all this stuff?!<BR/>4) Look at prices<BR/>5) Flee empty handed<BR/><BR/>Even if a new hit, sustainable character *was* created, people like me would still tend to stay away: because we've already been burned countless times *not* being able to get issue #1. Or when we come in at issue 6, getting 1-5 is too damned pricey.<BR/><BR/>Maybe the net will save comics. Right. When fiber connections rule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131150261385835882005-11-04T16:24:00.000-08:002005-11-04T16:24:00.000-08:00"I am so tired of hearing that the Superhero comic..."I am so tired of hearing that the Superhero comic is played out."<BR/><BR/>Maybe so, but a shrinking cadre of die-hard fans isn't going to save either the genre or the format. I'm sure there were people who loved dime novels right up until the end, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131149405380731592005-11-04T16:10:00.000-08:002005-11-04T16:10:00.000-08:00The cape-and-tight format...what's left to say?Lik...The cape-and-tight format...what's left to say?<BR/><BR/>Like any other genre, the serial superhero comic is limited by the conventions that define it. The major characters can't change, or grow, or die, or age, without fundamental changes in the makeup of the story. How many times can you re-do Batman vs. ...? The burnt out factor is inescapable, unless you LIKE the idea of re-reading your favorite story 200 times. That's practically the definition of a niche market.<BR/><BR/>I'd have to say that the only real sustained break-the-mold comic I can think of was Cerebus. And to do it, the creator had to go completely, utterly bughouse nuts. Hardly an attractive model. But it shows you can do it, if you have the creative chops.<BR/><BR/>Real creative genius is incredibly rare. The lighting struck Siegel & Shuster, it struck Bob Kane, Stan Lee, Dave Sim. It struck Will Eisner. That's a lot of creativity for a 50-60-year-old medium!<BR/><BR/>There are folks out there like Frank Cho and Donna Barr and Trina Robbins who are doing great original stuff. I'd suggest that to find the kind of new readership we're talking about you have to explore some of the outside-the-cape avenues. Some of those folks will find their way back to the supes, some won't. <BR/><BR/>But the superhero genre has worn itself such a deep rut I find it hard to believe that anything new and exciting enough to grab new readers is going to come from it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131136098902216662005-11-04T12:28:00.000-08:002005-11-04T12:28:00.000-08:00I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Robert Kirk...I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Robert Kirkman's <I>Invincible</I> yet. Sure, I'd be shocked if someone who doesn't frequent a comic shop knows about him, but last week the character got some huge exposure in Marvel Team-Ups and, correct me if this has changed, a movie is in development with a script by co-creator Robert Kirkman himself. If the movie takes off, there's definite potential for a franchise there. Though it could be argued that Invincible is just a Spider-man / Superman amalgam... well, is anything truly original?<BR/>-Matt WoodsideAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131066971513037832005-11-03T17:16:00.000-08:002005-11-03T17:16:00.000-08:00I still have comic books from when I was a kid! :)...I still have comic books from when I was a kid! :)<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.scriptbandit.com" REL="nofollow">Post Your LogLine Here!</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131040569679226202005-11-03T09:56:00.000-08:002005-11-03T09:56:00.000-08:00>If you want a diverse, healthier (meaning a large...>If you want a diverse, healthier (meaning a larger, across the demographic spectrum readership) then start building that readership early:<BR/><BR/>>Where are the kid's books and why aren't they on the shelves at the grocery and toy stores (instead of the comic shops where parents will never go)?<BR/>Where are the "tween" books? <BR/>Where are the girls' books? <BR/>Why aren't there comics that are less expensive, making sales resistance less of a hurdle?<BR/>No parent (or kid for that matter) is going to pick up a beautiful book for $3.99. They're wanting a fun book for $1.25 - something they can afford.<BR/><BR/>I agree completely- I started out buying comics by nagging my mom in the check out line, buying discount bags at the 5 and dime and dividing my allowance into candy and comic allottments. Now a used comic costs more than a new one and the themes are all way out of the level of an 8-12 year old. The dreck that children are left with are guaranteed to ensure that none of them gain a lifetime appreciation. <BR/>If you want new readership, it may be time for older comic fans to clear out their back issues and "accidentally" leave them behind at pediatrician's waiting rooms.Hawisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611358808722969841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131038370381325242005-11-03T09:19:00.000-08:002005-11-03T09:19:00.000-08:00"There aren't going to be any great new superhero ..."There aren't going to be any great new superhero franchises. I don't doubt that there will be a new genre, and a new format, to succeed the superhero -- and if Marvel and DC are smart, that's what they should be interested in developing."<BR/><BR/>Thank you. We have to remember that Marvel and DC are the dominant forces in the market and as such they aren't interested in breaking new ground - they are interested in exploiting all possibilities of the properties they already own. They don't have a new reputation to build, they have a rep to maintain.<BR/><BR/>If you want a diverse, healthier (meaning a larger, across the demographic spectrum readership) then start building that readership early:<BR/><BR/>Where are the kid's books and why aren't they on the shelves at the grocery and toy stores (instead of the comic shops where parents will never go)?<BR/>Where are the "tween" books? <BR/>Where are the girls' books? <BR/>Why aren't there comics that are less expensive, making sales resistance less of a hurdle?<BR/>No parent (or kid for that matter) is going to pick up a beautiful book for $3.99. They're wanting a fun book for $1.25 - something they can afford.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to discussing this further...Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07137025404327426886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131035283518232152005-11-03T08:28:00.000-08:002005-11-03T08:28:00.000-08:00Comic books - you either love them or hate them.Comic books - you either love them or hate them.Shaunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17951707293674263179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131033434151811042005-11-03T07:57:00.000-08:002005-11-03T07:57:00.000-08:00Well, comics readers never seem to like hearing th...Well, comics readers never seem to like hearing this... but I've long thought it's past time to admit that the superhero comic book, in both the form and the format that's familiar to most collectors, is something of a played-out niche.<BR/><BR/>It's instructive to look at the evolution (and demise) of other publishing niches through history. Take the dime novel: it had a definite period of ascendancy, built around recognizable heroes, a standard publishing and profit model and staid genre conventions, before the changing landscape of entertainment and the changing interests of its readers passed it by. The great dime novel publishers had to segue into new territories and ventures -- giving rise to pulp fiction, written for adults instead of juveniles (though just as trashy!).<BR/><BR/>This is what's eventually going to have to happen with companies like Marvel and DC. They at least have been able to segue their juvenile properties into film, but that's only delaying the inevitable -- the acknowledgment that the ascendancy of capes, cowls and tights is simply past. No matter how successful superhero films might be, ultimately they're just another blip on the action movie landscape for adults and just another of a thousand different competing toy-sales ads for kids.<BR/><BR/>There aren't going to be any great new superhero franchises. I don't doubt that there will be a new genre, and a new format, to succeed the superhero -- and if Marvel and DC are smart, that's what they should be interested in developing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131027244684527842005-11-03T06:14:00.000-08:002005-11-03T06:14:00.000-08:00Hey blackeyedgurl, thanks for posting. My own gir...Hey blackeyedgurl, thanks for posting. My own girl is 1) a fan of BTV and Whedon 2) a fan of Princess Bride and 3) a big fan of Underworld.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for swinging by!<BR/><BR/>best,<BR/>-RRoss Richiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019245413630950872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131011476164298152005-11-03T01:51:00.000-08:002005-11-03T01:51:00.000-08:00Stephen G--you're high. Grant Morrison's run was c...Stephen G--you're high. Grant Morrison's run was crap. Unreadable crap.<BR/><BR/>Whedon's X-men, while not ALL that innovative, has really brought the team back to a place where you can actually give a crap about them. <BR/><BR/>Morrison's run was all about--hey, what new freaky mutation can I create a story about? Chicken beak guy! Moth girl! Crap!<BR/><BR/>But then again, you point to a UK site for your reviews, which would definitely put you in the Morrison corner, wouldn't it?Aric Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15988520977827917569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1131010852386062232005-11-03T01:40:00.000-08:002005-11-03T01:40:00.000-08:00"Joss Whedon has done a spectacular job in reinvig..."Joss Whedon has done a spectacular job in reinvigorating the slumping X-Men series..."<BR/><BR/>Bah. Whedon's X-Men comics could've been churned out by any third-rate hack (as the guys over at the Shiny Shelf review site said, 'See, what you've done there Joss is written one of those dull 'Star Trek' episodes where the holodeck attacks them'). At least Grant Morrison tried to do something interesting with them...<BR/><BR/>www.shinyshelf.co.uk, by the way. If anyone's interested.<BR/><BR/>SGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130989808757198952005-11-02T19:50:00.000-08:002005-11-02T19:50:00.000-08:00I too am excited with the possibilities of my favo...I too am excited with the possibilities of my favorite TV writers entering the world of comics. Joss Whedon has done a spectacular job in reinvigorating the slumping X-Men series, and also has Fray (his BTVS spin-off graphic novel) under his belt. He even leaped the chasm to connect his failed Firefly series and Serenity movie with a 3 book joiner series. These are the sorts of things that will get new people into comics.<BR/>I am excited to see what Damon Lindelof can do with Wolverine, I only hope it's as good as what Whedon has brought to comics.<BR/><BR/>BTW: This is coming from a comic girl, who really only got interested in comics because of the Buffy and Angel spin-offs in comics, then I found myself sucked in. Plus every guy I have ever known was a comic book addict at some point in his life, so I was already familiar. So yes, new or fresh blood can bring new readership in, and can also create a place for these new writers to create new franchises. As the world of TV shrinks I think you'll see a lot more writers attempting their hand at comics because it is a great way to tell a story without having to write a novel. But this is just my girly opinion, I know little about the big world of comics, so I just thought I'd offer another perspective.<BR/><BR/>BTW: the LOST fans are psychotic, they will follow Lindeloff to comics just as Joss' people followed him, we're like lemmings us fangirls/boys.Black Eyed Gurlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00306629809995376101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130982540655555542005-11-02T17:49:00.000-08:002005-11-02T17:49:00.000-08:00Yes, Hellboy is proof that something mutually bene...Yes, Hellboy is proof that something mutually beneficial can be done. But I don't know the nature of Mignola's contract with Dark Horse. Could he take the character and walk away from them? Leaving aside the question of whether or not he'd be a fool to do it. What if the company was bought out and its sensible management replaced with Hollywood playas who tried to interfere with Mignola's creative choices on the grounds that something he wanted to do would jeopardize an upcoming movie/video game/happy meal?<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I know, it's pretty unlikely. But Hellboy is still the exception that proves the rule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130976989373265242005-11-02T16:16:00.000-08:002005-11-02T16:16:00.000-08:00Straight from the NY Times in 2003:http://www.comi...Straight from the NY Times in 2003:<BR/><BR/>http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/articles/360.asp<BR/><BR/>Marvel has become an "intellectual property company". In 2003, only 20% of their income was from comics...Cunninghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07137025404327426886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130975195919760142005-11-02T15:46:00.000-08:002005-11-02T15:46:00.000-08:00"And lets face facts that if the Spiderman movies ..."And lets face facts that if the Spiderman movies hadn't done well, then the whole of the Marvel Empire would be in a serious world of hurt right now. Let's not forget they were near bankruptcy not too long (three years?)ago.<BR/><BR/>The big two have long since stopped being real comic book companies and have become the development arms of media congolomerates. It's NOT the comics themselves that sell, but the toys, games, fashion, TV, and movies that accompany them. That's why you have many different Spidey comics out there."<BR/><BR/>Bill -- <BR/><BR/>Marvel was in bankruptcy nearly 10 years ago. It's been a while.<BR/><BR/>Marvel and DC do quite well publishing, actually. There's a lot of money to be made there. While media rights is always lucrative, as-is merchandising, if they were really in bad straits, they wouldn't be doing it.<BR/><BR/>Marvel only went into bankruptcy as a result of some very clever ledger-noodling by a dude who wanted to take it over.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/>-RRoss Richiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019245413630950872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130975043679202332005-11-02T15:44:00.000-08:002005-11-02T15:44:00.000-08:00"not a huge comic guy, so i don't have a lot at st..."not a huge comic guy, so i don't have a lot at stake here, but it seems like you've answered your own question, here. batman, spider-man and their respective spin-offs sell, and they apparently sell well-enough to maintain the franchise. why would a publisher mess with that? also, since the franchises are so dominant, the next wave of creators that comes along doesn't want to create the next spider-man, he wants to write spider-man!!<BR/><BR/>you pointed out how absurd it would be to have 27 seasons of the love boat. didn't we just shrug off 30 some-odd years of star trek? seems like a lot of us genre-fans don't like change."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely.<BR/><BR/>The only question about selling more Spider-Man, and wanting to write more Spider-Man, is how much is the business and the creativity cheating itself that it's not finding the NEXT Spider-Man?<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/>-RRoss Richiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019245413630950872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130974921050393472005-11-02T15:42:00.000-08:002005-11-02T15:42:00.000-08:00" Just to play devil's advocate, do comics even ha..." Just to play devil's advocate, do comics even have the cultural clout to *create* a new franchise any more?"<BR/><BR/>Hey Randbot,<BR/><BR/>the explosion of comic book movies at the box office is proof they do. Pulp-styled visually-driven storytelling is the thing of the future. For every Spider-Man that was a Marvel or DC book, there's a highly successful THE MASK or THE CROW or MEN IN BLACK, comic books all.<BR/><BR/>I believe the complete opposite of what you think -- not that comic books are passe and out of date, but rather that the culture has finally come around to comics.<BR/><BR/>"I mean, it's not like the comics companies *stopped* creating new characters -- have you looked around the Marvel or DC Universes? There's no shortage of obscure, reinvented, or new personalities there -- heck, Marvel even came up with a whole New Universe a couple decades ago (remember that? I sure do -- issues #1-8 of each are still bagged in my basement somewhere, awaiting a collectible value that will never come)."<BR/><BR/>Right. THE NEW UNIVERSE is 20 years old. Imagine how old that is to a kid reading comics that's 7, or 12, or even 18 for that matter.<BR/><BR/>When it comes to creating characters, doesn't it take more than a catchy character name and a symbol on their chest?<BR/><BR/>Seems like to me that's why so much of the "new" characters that Marvel and DC invent for their lines are really boring.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/>-R<BR/><BR/>I think the best comics can hope for now is to create a character just big enough to get its own movie or TV show (Hellboy, for example). Then, if the movie does well, and maybe gets a sequel, that can feed back into more comic books, and more cultural recognition, and maybe 10 years from now, it's a new franchise.Ross Richiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019245413630950872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130974876123305262005-11-02T15:41:00.000-08:002005-11-02T15:41:00.000-08:00Kavalier and Clay's essentially parasitic, though,...Kavalier and Clay's essentially parasitic, though, isn't it? It's covering similar ground to Watchmen in that it's just playing with recognizable archetypes.<BR/><BR/>Now, I'm off to re-read Fell.<BR/><BR/>SGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9380399.post-1130974627714433982005-11-02T15:37:00.000-08:002005-11-02T15:37:00.000-08:00"Creators must be willing to take the creative and..."Creators must be willing to take the creative and financial risk of building their own empires (ala Image) instead of being employees of the corporation."<BR/><BR/>"Frank Miller - a man who's now known more in the general populace by his SIN CITY work than his superhero stuff."<BR/><BR/>Hey Rand,<BR/><BR/>Frank's not your best example of someone taking a chance to do their own thing as a creator -- he was paid a page rate for his work, unlike Todd and Marc and Jim Lee and Rob and Jim Valentino, who all did their work on spec and took their check on the back end.<BR/><BR/>I think we're getting a little thread drift, here. The means of production aren't the issue, I think. There's plenty of companies that'll let you own the whole piece of work and pay you a page rate -- Dark Horse, a new subimprint of Image Comics called Desperado -- while there's lots of opportunities to self-publish and publish via Image and retain ownership.<BR/><BR/>The truth, to me, is that no one's doing new, franchiseable characters and making them work. Where's the creativity?<BR/><BR/>Where's Seigel and Shuster, Bob Kane and Bill Finger, William Moulton Marsten, etc.? <BR/><BR/>We all know there was only one Jack Kirby. But you don't have to be Kirby -- you just have to do something besides same old same old.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/>-RRoss Richiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09019245413630950872noreply@blogger.com